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RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 11:12:42 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18246
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
quote:

ORIGINAL: TORINO

I'm a black man and I don't think Bond should be played by a black actor Bond is white. What I do think is that there is scope for a new agent definitely played by Idris Elba, who can come from the same department as 007 with a 00 licence to kill, with the same particular kind of skills as James B, just as ruthless and cool and answering to M. We know Bond is a franchise so they obviously want to keep that cash cow going, but the audience isn't stupid and it wouldn't take long for them to figure out that this new guy is from the same cast as Bond, there's no reason why there can't be other 00s with different skin tones. I remember watching Thunderball years and years ago and being thrilled at the sight of seeing Bond walk into this conference room with other agents, at that moment I wanted to know more about them, what they were like, what projects they'd been working on in the world of espionage. That's a prime opportunity to kickstart a new franchise right there, surely I can't be the only one who loves the idea of other agents around the world doing their thing whilst Bond is doing his elsewhere!



Which is something I agree with. Why are there not better roles out there for black actors as there are many talented ones. There is a possibility for something new and enduring to be created. It does not need to be an existing role being given but rather something being created fresh and new.

< Message edited by sanchia -- 25/11/2012 11:14:49 AM >


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Post #: 631
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 1:13:59 PM   
snaze1


Posts: 291
Joined: 2/3/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: TORINO

I'm a black man and I don't think Bond should be played by a black actor Bond is white. What I do think is that there is scope for a new agent definitely played by Idris Elba, who can come from the same department as 007 with a 00 licence to kill, with the same particular kind of skills as James B, just as ruthless and cool and answering to M. We know Bond is a franchise so they obviously want to keep that cash cow going, but the audience isn't stupid and it wouldn't take long for them to figure out that this new guy is from the same cast as Bond, there's no reason why there can't be other 00s with different skin tones. I remember watching Thunderball years and years ago and being thrilled at the sight of seeing Bond walk into this conference room with other agents, at that moment I wanted to know more about them, what they were like, what projects they'd been working on in the world of espionage. That's a prime opportunity to kickstart a new franchise right there, surely I can't be the only one who loves the idea of other agents around the world doing their thing whilst Bond is doing his elsewhere!


Finally, someone talking sense!!!
Would there be uproar if there were a remake or sequel to Pulp fiction and Jules Winfield were played by a white man?
Yes and rightly so because the character is black.
Same goes for Bond, why would he be played by a black actor when the character in literature and cinematically is white.
This is not racism, it is common sense!
As the above poster stated, why not have a different 00 agent played by a black actor such as Idris Elba, i would pay to go see that movie!


(in reply to TORINO)
Post #: 632
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 1:38:34 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
I doubt many would give a toss about Jules Winfield tbh.

Acting? Who/what/where he was is irrelevant IMO. Are any of you going to go and see Adrian Lester play Hamlet or Henry V then patiently explain to him he shouldn't be playing those characters because they are written, or were, white so you can't possibly watch him do so? I doubt you would - you'd watch the play and judge the performance, not preface the opinion with 'of course, he should have been white'.

Should we be complaining to the current Bond filmmakers because the casually racist attitudes in the original books are now missing?

If you're looking at an actor aren't you normally looking at the performance, not the colour? Unless it's something absolutely relevant to the story and the way it's told - such as the imposing physicality of Jack Reacher - so what?

I'd suggest Chiwetel Ejiofor - excellent actor, nicely charismatic. But Craig was very good in Skyfall - looking forward to seeing a few more with him if they keep to that level .


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to snaze1)
Post #: 633
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 4:49:34 PM   
will1000

 

Posts: 1798
Joined: 8/10/2005
It's at times like this I like to bust out a quote from Jurassic Park,

"...your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should." Dr Ian Malcom



Why should James Bond be black when he has been white since he was created?! What if they did it and the 'experiment' failed and went back to Bond being white. What type of message would that spread?!

I'm not going to quote TORINO's post again, but he is right. Bond is white! Keep it that way and let a black actor front a franchise with a black leading man.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 634
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 4:58:28 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
They seem to be able to handle changes of nationality, face and accent easily enough. I don't understand the term 'experiment' - every Bond casting is a limited one. Is Wales insulted because Dalton only had two before moving on? Are the colonies up in arms because the experiment to cast outside the UK was such a failure? Or is it just another actor in the role, and that's the only point?




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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to will1000)
Post #: 635
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 5:20:51 PM   
will1000

 

Posts: 1798
Joined: 8/10/2005
The reason I called it an 'experiment' is because of what would it look like on the surface if a black Bond failed and the producers reverted back to a white Bond. Think about it.

However I suppose we could completely disregard Bond's rich heritage for the sake of political correctness or white middle class guilt. How about he be a quarter English/American, quarter Chinese, half Afro-Latino wheelchair bound hermaphrodite with learning difficulties!

I mean are any of you going to go and see that person play Bond then patiently explain to him he shouldn't be playing that characters because he is written, or was, white so you can't possibly watch him do so? I doubt you would - you'd watch and judge the performance...

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 636
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 5:36:18 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
I don't think that's the case - each casting for the role is individual. Hence my examples, which you've left to the side.

It's not political correctness or middle class guilt - that's almost as silly as someone on the other side implying those opposing are racists.

Not sure what the last line is as the sarcasm doesn't really work there - whoever played the part would have to play the role which is a certain class, and a certain style. The example is a bit odd.

But to go back from where you took the line - I assume you think the theatre company was absolutely wrong and Adrian Lester should never have been permitted to play Henry V, an actual person?


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to will1000)
Post #: 637
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 6:16:12 PM   
will1000

 

Posts: 1798
Joined: 8/10/2005

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 638
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 6:44:40 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
A cogent and well-thought out response/ 'cos obviously a monologue on scientific responsibility is key to any discussion on colourblind casting 

< Message edited by elab49 -- 25/11/2012 6:45:14 PM >


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Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to will1000)
Post #: 639
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 6:44:48 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12189
Joined: 30/9/2005
Why cant we look at things individually?

(in reply to will1000)
Post #: 640
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 6:52:26 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Why is elab molesting this thread with intelligent points?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 641
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 6:59:21 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
I need to pretend I do something on this site other than remove spam.

Soz - shan't do it again


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 642
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 7:42:43 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4236
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
Why are you picking on Will1000 anyway?

Personally I have no problem with seeing dinosaurs in the next Bond film.

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Post #: 643
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 7:58:30 PM   
UTB


Posts: 9873
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: snaze1


quote:

ORIGINAL: TORINO

I'm a black man and I don't think Bond should be played by a black actor Bond is white. What I do think is that there is scope for a new agent definitely played by Idris Elba, who can come from the same department as 007 with a 00 licence to kill, with the same particular kind of skills as James B, just as ruthless and cool and answering to M. We know Bond is a franchise so they obviously want to keep that cash cow going, but the audience isn't stupid and it wouldn't take long for them to figure out that this new guy is from the same cast as Bond, there's no reason why there can't be other 00s with different skin tones. I remember watching Thunderball years and years ago and being thrilled at the sight of seeing Bond walk into this conference room with other agents, at that moment I wanted to know more about them, what they were like, what projects they'd been working on in the world of espionage. That's a prime opportunity to kickstart a new franchise right there, surely I can't be the only one who loves the idea of other agents around the world doing their thing whilst Bond is doing his elsewhere!



As the above poster stated, why not have a different 00 agent played by a black actor such as Idris Elba, i would pay to go see that movie!




Wouldn't this defeat the purpose? I mean, creating a sub-00 film specifically to cast a black man seems a bit silly to me. What if they created the sub-00 movie and casted whoever they thought was best for it, who might happen to be a black actor? This would make sense, and yes at this present moment Idris seems the most suitable. But I think if you said to Idris "hey we want a black bond but obvs not replacing the actual one cos he should be white, so we're creating a Black Bond spinoff", he'd probably tell you to get lost, no?






(in reply to snaze1)
Post #: 644
RE: The Black Bond Question - 25/11/2012 10:18:41 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Why are you picking on Will1000 anyway?

Personally I have no problem with seeing dinosaurs in the next Bond film.



Good, because I think you're a sexist, misogynist dinosaur. A relic of the Cold War, whose boyish charms, though wasted on me, obviously appealed to that young woman I sent out to moderate you.

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Post #: 645
RE: The Black Bond Question - 27/11/2012 2:31:25 AM   
Moonbucket

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 18/11/2005
From: Edinburgh

quote:

ORIGINAL: TORINO

I'm a black man and I don't think Bond should be played by a black actor Bond is white. What I do think is that there is scope for a new agent definitely played by Idris Elba, who can come from the same department as 007 with a 00 licence to kill, with the same particular kind of skills as James B, just as ruthless and cool and answering to M. We know Bond is a franchise so they obviously want to keep that cash cow going, but the audience isn't stupid and it wouldn't take long for them to figure out that this new guy is from the same cast as Bond, there's no reason why there can't be other 00s with different skin tones. I remember watching Thunderball years and years ago and being thrilled at the sight of seeing Bond walk into this conference room with other agents, at that moment I wanted to know more about them, what they were like, what projects they'd been working on in the world of espionage. That's a prime opportunity to kickstart a new franchise right there, surely I can't be the only one who loves the idea of other agents around the world doing their thing whilst Bond is doing his elsewhere!


I reckon you'll see Elba as the next baddie. It seems to be the odd way in which EON seek some sort of approval for casting decisions, they did the same with Craig by leaking he was going to play Le Chiffre in Casino Royale. And they screentest a lot of people too.

You could go down the two agent route, it's fun but Goldeneye already explored that idea, and even Skyfall touches upon it. Is there room for an offshoot to be as successful - I'm not sure.

Personally I don't think you can meddle with the heritage and back-story of arguably the most famous character, certainly most well established character, in movie history.

(in reply to TORINO)
Post #: 646
RE: The Black Bond Question - 27/11/2012 7:36:28 AM   
TORINO

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/11/2007
I think there's plenty of room for an offshoot from Bond, you only have to look at Marvel for example to see that it can work, you have Thor, Captain America, The Hulk, Iron Man, all interconnected characters but also individually successful films. Rather than just guesting another agent with Bond I think they need to go full throttle and devote a complete film to this other agent, Bond is out of the picture it's all about the new guy. I'd pay to watch it.

(in reply to Moonbucket)
Post #: 647
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 10:37:31 AM   
jonson


Posts: 9118
Joined: 30/9/2005
So a Bond film that's not a Bond film, with all the usual characters of a Bond film but without Bond, just so we can cast a black guy in the role.
I don't think I'd go and see it on principal, I can't think of anything more insulting to black people or white people.
I thought this thread had gone off the rails a few pages ago, not it's just completely bonkers.

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Post #: 648
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 10:40:16 AM   
Happy Shrapnel


Posts: 17420
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Post #: 649
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 11:11:16 AM   
TORINO

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/11/2007
It's called a spinoff, and it wouldn't be a Bond film if he's not called Bond. The discussion brings us round full circle as to why Bond could be played by a black actor. I think any actor whose suitable for a role like Bond no matter what colour would work, time for a new 00. They could call him Jason Bourne..oh crap!

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Post #: 650
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 11:12:50 AM   
TORINO

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/11/2007
Sorry Happy Shrapnel meant for Johnson!

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Post #: 651
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 11:14:29 AM   
Happy Shrapnel


Posts: 17420
Joined: 19/1/2006
From: Wishing for the Clothes of Heaven
No worries Mr Gran Torino


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Post #: 652
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 11:17:32 AM   
Happy Shrapnel


Posts: 17420
Joined: 19/1/2006
From: Wishing for the Clothes of Heaven
I remember after Die Another Day, there was talk of Halle Berry doing a spin off movie as Jinx.
So that would be a black, American, woman Bond called Jinx.........
So we nearly got one........

And then she did Catwoman, killed the idea and her career.......


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' Its All Been Rather Lovely '

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Post #: 653
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 12:01:01 PM   
TORINO

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/11/2007
Haha so true,so true!

(in reply to Happy Shrapnel)
Post #: 654
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 12:19:36 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
Well, she's have been a spy. Not Bond of course. Just a random badly written badly acted one. What a frakkin' awful idea that was.

Jonson's point was,  I think, that if you have to have a spin-off as the only way to allow a black actor to play a British spy then that's a fairly dodgy premise first off.

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Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to TORINO)
Post #: 655
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 12:27:09 PM   
jonson


Posts: 9118
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Jonson's point was,  I think, that if you have to have a spin-off as the only way to allow a black actor to play a British spy then that's a fairly dodgy premise first off.


Yeah, pretty much.
It just looks like you're saying "well, we can't have a black guy play Bond because he's white, but let's start a new franchise with a black guy who is a double-0, thus keeping it in Bond's world and therefore keeping black people happy despite the fact they'll find it even more insulting"
Or something like that.

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Post #: 656
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 12:32:40 PM   
will1000

 

Posts: 1798
Joined: 8/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Jonson's point was,  I think, that if you have to have a spin-off as the only way to allow a black actor to play a British spy then that's a fairly dodgy premise first off.


Yeah, pretty much.
It just looks like you're saying "well, we can't have a black guy play Bond because he's white, but let's start a new franchise with a black guy who is a double-0, thus keeping it in Bond's world and therefore keeping black people happy despite the fact they'll find it even more insulting"
Or something like that.



Are you black? Can you speak or all black people or this what you think might happen?!

(in reply to jonson)
Post #: 657
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 1:01:33 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009
most pointless thread of 2012 ?

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Post #: 658
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 1:04:34 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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From: Land of the Scots
Outside of all the spam ones? Maybe

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Post #: 659
RE: The Black Bond Question - 28/11/2012 1:04:51 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12189
Joined: 30/9/2005
2008 surely?

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 660
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