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RE: The Bond Thread: 17 - GoldenEye (1995)

 
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RE: The Bond Thread: 17 - GoldenEye (1995) - 19/11/2008 11:08:28 PM   
Chris66


Posts: 1591
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GoldenEye is my second favourite Bond film and I thought Brosnan was a good Bond. Great characters, action scenes and an interesting story is what makes it an excellent film.  


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Post #: 151
RE: Bond - The Top Threes - 20/11/2008 6:34:09 AM   
Gimli The Dwarf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

Solitaire



My choice for the best Bond girl as well. Most are pretty useless really.


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Yeah, Mr. White! Yeah, science!

Much more better!

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Post #: 152
RE: The Bond Thread: 17 - GoldenEye (1995) - 20/11/2008 9:49:45 AM   
Rumbaabaa


Posts: 1317
Joined: 25/11/2005
From: York
Ah, Goldeneye. The film where Bond develops the power of flight...

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Post #: 153
RE: The Bond Thread: 17 - GoldenEye (1995) - 20/11/2008 10:49:22 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
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From: Springfield
Because, like, everything up to that point has been utterly believable......

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Post #: 154
RE: The Bond Thread: 17 - GoldenEye (1995) - 20/11/2008 3:38:36 PM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24508
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From: No Direction Home
I don't know about everybody else, but I think one of the joys of the Bond films is how silly they are. I adore sitting picking holes in the films with the my dad on a Sunday afternoon, laughing at the stupidity while not-so-secretly loving every second.

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Post #: 155
RE: The Bond Thread: 17 - GoldenEye (1995) - 20/11/2008 7:13:47 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
Hell yeah that's part of the fun! Like when the unbreakable BMW glass in Tomorrow Never Dies (review incoming) which resists sledgehammers, machine gun fire, etc suddenly breaks once Bond is in the car. Loving something despite and because of its flaws is a much more satisfying love.


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Post #: 156
The Bond Thread: 18 - Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) - 20/11/2008 7:30:04 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
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From: Springfield



After Brosnan made his mark with GoldenEye it then became paramount to ensure that Bond's legacy could continue as we approached the end of the 20th century. With that in mind the producers chose a film which has a curious mix of traditional elements with new elements. Purists and Brosnan-deniers might argue that this is to the film's detriment, but I can't help but enjoy Brosnan's Bond. My younger childhood was filled with the classic Moore and Connery Bonds, but my adolescence (I was 14 when GoldenEye was released) was filled with this very modern Bond, and watching them again now I feel they are very much due a reappraisal.

To that contrast in elements. We have Bond facing off against the traditional megalomaniac villain who, in a neat twist, rather than wanting to take over the world, merely wants to report on it all. Exclusively. A not-so-subtle dig at Murdoch's empire, I'm sure. Elliott Carver (Jonathan Pryce, relishing every moment) is the head of the Carver Media Group, married to one of Bond's old flames, Paris (Teri Hatcher, hot off her fame as Lois on The New Adventures of Superman, which I loved I'm not ashamed to admit) and intent on starting a war between Britain and China. But replacing the cherished Aston Martin, pinnacle of British motoring achievement, we have a rather ordinary BMW (albeit with extraordinary Q additions, including a kick-ass remote control feature - a remote control on a phone made by Ericsson, showing the company's connections to Bond predates it's merger with Sony). Bond also picks up the new Walther P99, replacing his PPK after 18 films. (Confusingly the P99 remains in Casino Royale, with the PPK returning in Quantum of Solace - the timeline is really screwed up.)

While over-the-top villains are nothing new to Bond, it's done with such abandon by Pryce that it's almost forgivable. It's certainly huge fun, as the infectious nature of Carver's self-love at his great master plan catches on. This doesn't stop us feeling a fair amount of schadenfreude as Carver's inaugural speech on his new network comes crashing down after Bond pulls a few wires. In addition, any film starring Michelle Yeoh is officially Very Cool, especially when you have an awesome motorbike chase through the streets of a Chinese town (the name escapes me) with Bond and Wai Lin (Yeoh) handcuffed together and thus improvising seating arrangements.

With such a body of work to compare with it's easy to see why the new breed of Bond (before the new new breed came along) was dismissed so readily. However, 11 years down the line and Tomorrow Never Dies fits neatly into the Bond canon. For its flaws and periods where suspension of disbelief is stretched it's still hugely enjoyable.


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RE: The Bond Thread: 18 - Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) - 20/11/2008 9:23:11 PM   
Pigeon Army


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Hooray, we're finally into the Bond films I've seen! 

Goldeneye's probably my favourite Bond film (gotta love Sean Bean, the man's highly underrated), and I do like Tomorrow Never Dies, even despite the presence of The Hatcher.

Is it just me, or is everyone else getting a Goldeneye-Tomorrow Never Dies feel from the way Craig's Bond is progressing? I mean, when I first heard the synopsis of QoS, I first thought TND...


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Post #: 158
RE: The Bond Thread: 18 - Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) - 21/11/2008 12:48:01 AM   
TRM


Posts: 4797
Joined: 20/10/2006
From: Bristol
Brosnan looks really old in that photo. And to think, he still has years left before he is axed

I also didn't remember which phone the car controls were on. I also didn't know about the timeline of the guns as well. I dont seem to be very clued up on this Bond stuff

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RE: The Bond Thread: 18 - Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) - 21/11/2008 6:00:36 AM   
Gimli The Dwarf


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TND is my third favourite Bond.

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So, sir, we let him have it right up! And I have to report, sir, he did not like it, sir.

Fellow scientists, poindexters, geeks.

Yeah, Mr. White! Yeah, science!

Much more better!

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Post #: 160
RE: The Bond Thread: 18 - Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) - 21/11/2008 10:21:42 AM   
grucl

 

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Is the whole "Tomorrow never lies / dies" confusion fact or a myth?

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RE: The Bond Thread: 18 - Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) - 21/11/2008 10:30:10 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
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From: Springfield
imdb have tomorrow never lies as the uk working title.

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Post #: 162
RE: The Bond Thread: 18 - Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) - 21/11/2008 10:40:14 AM   
grucl

 

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I heard somewhere that the original title was „Tomorrow never lies“ but when the script was copied/faxed due to bad quality it read “Tomorrow never dies” .

Sounds a bit like Buttle/Tuttle to me.

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Post #: 163
The Bond Thread: 19 - The World Is Not Enough (1999) - 21/11/2008 12:14:49 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
Spoilers within.





I'll say this straight off - I like this film. It kicks off with an explosion at MI6 head office, a riproaring boat chase on the Thames, and Bond landing on the white elephant that is the Millennium Dome. It's great to have a chase on such a recognisable river, and Bond is doing things in style with a kick ass boat (Q's retirement fishing boat - he'll be fishing with torpedos apparently). He even has time to adjust his tie underwater. Following this chase is the obligatory Q scene. For me this scene is particularly emotional as the events that would follow the release of the film mean that Q's final scene is particularly emotionally-loaded. Q says he always taught Bond two things, the second of which was 'always have an escape plan'. He then disappears underground, while looking steadily at Bond. Whether Llewelyn had intended this to be his final Bond or not, it is a particularly fitting farewell to the veteran actor who died in a car crash the week before Christmas, 1999. John Cleese as his replacement is good enough in the role, but could never replace Q himself.

One can see how this is the start of the stretching of reality that would inflict Die Another Day as well, but suspension of disbelief has always been an element of Bond. (Connery as Oriental? Bond in space? Etc.) I can quite happily accept Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist. I'd happily accept Denise Richards as anything, to be honest. Robert Carlyle's villain who feels no pain is suitably menacing and ruthless, and one can see Carlyle is having fun with the role, which is infectious.

What makes this a good Bond film for me tho, is the well-drawn subplot between Bond and Electra King. We all know Bond is susceptible to lust, but occasionally he is susceptible to love as well. Tracey Bond in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Electra King here, and again in Casino Royale (or is that first in Casino Royale? I get easily confused). The sympathy he feels for her plight translates as love and he falls for her. Which makes her turn particularly emotive. Fortunately Bond has the necessary resolution to do what he found/will find so hard in Casino Royale - 'I never miss'.

With some choice puns ('I always wanted Christmas in Paris' - a pun that could have worked in Tomorrow Never Dies too, actually, thinking about it...) some great action scenes, some emotional background, and you have a great film. Worth another look, in my opinion.


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Post #: 164
RE: The Bond Thread: 19 - The World Is Not Enough (1999) - 21/11/2008 12:43:44 PM   
Chris66


Posts: 1591
Joined: 14/8/2007
From: Brighton, UK
I like Tomorrow Never Dies and The World Is Not Enough (which are both underrated in my opinion) but unfortunately the next film Die Another Day was nothing new so it was slightly disappointing.     

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Post #: 165
RE: The Bond Thread: 19 - The World Is Not Enough (1999) - 21/11/2008 5:19:54 PM   
Deviation


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Sorry, but I didn't like these two. Tomorrow Never Dies had a great heicopter sequence, but that's it(I do like Pryce though) and The World is Not Enough is rubbish after the intro sequence. I do like the theme song of TWINE.

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ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

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Post #: 166
RE: The Bond Thread: 19 - The World Is Not Enough (1999) - 21/11/2008 7:32:45 PM   
benmharper


Posts: 2237
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Carlisle
I too have a love for A view to a kill which stems from numerous viewings as a youngster. It was the earliest one a can remember being released.
The Brosnan Bond films were great imo (Die another Die, not so much but still enjoyable) espec Goldeneye and the non-stop action of Tomorrow never dies

Just wondering Homer if your gonna throw a Never say Never again review in here when you've finished with the 'official' Bond films 

Edit: forget that. I've just read the beginning of the thread again and you say 'official' Bond films. Just wondered what your (and others) thoughts were on Connery's return

< Message edited by benmharper -- 21/11/2008 9:35:22 PM >


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RE: The Bond Thread: 19 - The World Is Not Enough (1999) - 21/11/2008 9:39:10 PM   
Pigeon Army


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A review of The World Is Not Enough, and not one mention of the brilliantly hammy Robbie Coltrane? For shame, sir.

This is the Bond film I grew up with, so I do like it, despite Denise Richards in all her wooden glory. Carlyle's brilliant, and that opening sequence is, as you said, fantastic.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc
She's supposed to be 13! I'd want her to be very attractive though


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Stop being mean to Deviation

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RE: The Bond Thread: 19 - The World Is Not Enough (1999) - 22/11/2008 1:50:40 AM   
Kadaj


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quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

With some choice puns ('I always wanted Christmas in Paris' - a pun that could have worked in Tomorrow Never Dies too, actually, thinking about it...) some great action scenes, some emotional background, and you have a great film. Worth another look, in my opinion.



Wasn't it 'I always wanted Christmas in Turkey....'?

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Post #: 169
RE: The Bond Thread: 19 - The World Is Not Enough (1999) - 22/11/2008 9:36:18 AM   
homersimpson_esq


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From: Springfield
Shows how much I paid attention...! Pedant. 

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Post #: 170
The Bond Thread: 20 - Die Another Day (2002) - 23/11/2008 11:41:22 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield



Bond does not die another day - Bond as we know him dies here, in this 20th film. 40 years after the release of Dr No, 5 actors playing Bond, and Bond as we know him has run his course. Like M says in GoldenEye, Bond is a dinosaur of the Cold War and no longer fits into our world. He has traversed every conceivable place in the world: deserts, ice palaces, the depths of the ocean, the heights of space. In many ways Die Another Day is Bond's swansong. It is unfortunate that Desmond Llewelyn could not make this last film, especially given the reference to the previous films (Bond's 20th watch...) and the walk through the warehouse where many of the gadgets that remarkably survived previous films are kept.

There is much to recommend Die Another Day. In the bid to dismiss it, citing the ice house (is it really more ridiculous than many of the previous Bond concepts?) and the poor CGI surfing scene (it's not that bad, and there have been worse effects shots in previous Bond films) many forget the good parts. The grit that was shown in the Dalton Bonds, and will come again with Craig's is beginning to show again: The opening credits sequence (ignoring that dire, dire song) is innovative in having scenes of Bond being tortured for information throughout. At the end we see a nearly broken, bearded, bedraggled Bond exchanged for a valuable prisoner in a move that M didn't want and resents Bond for. He goes 'off mission' to find Zao. We also have Halle Berry in her now infamous nod to Ursula Andress' watery exit as the more-than-capable Jinx, and Rosamund Pike as the aptly-named Frost.

The film quickly descends into concepts that stretch the suspension of disbelief past breaking point and effectively ruin the end of Bond. The film is nearly rescued at the end by a nice virtual scene with Moneypenny acting out the fantasy that has been unspoken from that very first Bond 40 years previously. However, as the final Bond film, it limps across the finish line, with a bitter aftertaste that even a Martini can't take away.

I say that this is the end of Bond, and I'm sure that Casino Royale-haters are nodding fervently in agreement. But I said, specifically, that this is the end of Bond as we know it. What is to come is an entirely new Bond, with a new set of standards for a new millennium.


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Post #: 171
RE: The Bond Thread: 20 - Die Another Day (2002) - 23/11/2008 12:24:48 PM   
Pigeon Army


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From: Pixar HQ, George Lucas' Office.
Agreed that Die Another Day isn't the worst thing ever, but it's still very disappointing. The opening sequence in Korea is brilliant, though, and fuck it, why not an invisible car? If anything, the film could've done without the concentrated-sun-ray-beam-thingamabob (very Moonraker...), Michael Madsen, Halle Berry (I see a pattern) and, um, LEE TAMAHORI. I don't mean to hate on my fellow countryman, but has he made a decent film since Once Were Warriors? The Edge, perhaps, but what else? Should've just gotten in Martin Campbell again.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc
She's supposed to be 13! I'd want her to be very attractive though


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army
Stop being mean to Deviation

No.

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Post #: 172
The Bond Thread: 21 - Casino Royale (2006) - 23/11/2008 4:28:39 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield



And so we come to Bond re-Bourne, so to speak. An accusation that flies around is that Bond is trying to be more like the Bourne films in its depiction of action. No, Bond is trying to be modern in its depiction of action (indeed, as it been 'modern', or to be more precise 'contemporaneous' since the 60s) and the Bourne trilogy happens to be the pinnacle of that action style. Casino Royale is no more a product of its era than any of the other Bond films have been a product of theirs*. What probably irks the Bond fans more than anything is its removal of key Bond aspects and the fact that Bond himself is somewhat different. This is, I believe, largely down to the fact that Bond is not quite 'Bond' yet. By which mean that the man is yet to be the icon. And because of this fact, and that it is set contemporaneously, I see this not as a rebirth of the character we've seen for the previous 20 films, but a birth of a similar, yet different character.

Consider: The old M from the start of Bond's career is the same M as the new one. Which means that this M knew both Bonds. Felix Leiter is black. This cannot be the same Bond as the previous 20 films because this, the start of his career, is set today. (Mind you, the other Bond stayed pretty much the same age for 40 years, but that was poetic licence - this is rewriting history, which is probably what is upsetting people.) In this respect the best way to see this new Bond is in the same vein as, I imagine, the various incarnations of the Doctor (Who) are seen - the same, but different. Whichever way you justify it, I see it as a new take on Ian Fleming's character, but transposing the action to a more relevant setting for today. Arguably the other films also tranposed the action to the year of release, but this differs in that it takes the start of the character to explore again.

Bond has just got his '00' status, he is developing his palate for Martinis, and if you catch him at the wrong time, he doesn't give a damn whether it's shaked or stirred. (At other times he's rather specific about what he wants, in a recipe outlined by Fleming in the book.) I have continued the character traits I outlined in my Licence to Kill review and put them in a neat table format.



Each trait is necessary to make Bond. If you note the row for Craig's Bond, I have put him down as still acquiring two of the key factors, which could be where some see something missing. It also shows how each Bond actor approaches the role, and where each aspect is in terms of importance. We have teases of characters to (hopefully) come as Bond becomes Bond. A play on words references Moneypenny, Bond's car is tooled out with gadgets despite not seeing Q. Since this film focuses on Bond, much like Nolan's Batman Begins focused on Batman, then surrounding characters will come later. At this stage we don't need to see Q, just know that Bond has a few gadgets.

Another aspect of Casino Royale which deserves due attention is the music. David Arnold has been oft-maligned as being sub-John Barry, but I find his scores duly Bond-esque. But with Casino Royale he demonstrates a keen understanding of what constitutes a 'Bond sound' to a film, as learnt through work on the Brosnan Bonds. Monty Norman's infamous Bond Theme never quite materialises, but is twisted, tranposed, delayed, stretched, compressed, flirted with incessantly until, like some great musical foreplay it climaxes at the film's end coinciding perfectly with the delivery of that introduction, and continuing over the end-credits. The theme is so loaded with association that it is (as a Bond fan) impossible not to be moved as we finally hear it in its glory after expecting it throughout. Craig's Bond is more physical and less verbal than the other actors (even Brosnan) and his style can be best summed up thus:

'Do you expect me to talk?'
'No Mr Craig, I expect you to act.'








*Should there be an apostrophe before that 's'? Argh.


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Post #: 173
RE: The Bond Thread: 21 - Casino Royale (2006) - 23/11/2008 5:07:19 PM   
Captain Black


Posts: 6681
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No, there isn't an apostrophe in 'theirs'.

I think it's a mistake to assume that Craig's Bond will necessarily evolve into an approximation of the previous Bonds (as you chart illustrates, they ain't all the same anyway). Rather his version will be looked upon as the first that really challenged the boundaries of what can be done with the character with each subsequent recasting. It's not important that Q, or Moneypenny, or whatever, make an appearance in future Craig films, these are not essential elements to the character of Bond. What is important is that any subsequent elements of that nature are introduced logically rather than being shoe-horned in to justify tradition.


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Post #: 174
RE: The Bond Thread: 21 - Casino Royale (2006) - 24/11/2008 10:43:32 AM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2487
Joined: 11/2/2008
Mind you, there is a guy in Casino Royale who could be Q / from Q-branch.
He’s the man who implants the transmitter into Bond’s arm.

He even looks a bit like a young(ish) John Cleese.

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Post #: 175
RE: The Bond Thread: 21 - Casino Royale (2006) - 26/11/2008 7:52:07 AM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2487
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Homer, are you gonna do a Quantum of Solace review in here as well?

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Post #: 176
RE: The Bond Thread: 21 - Casino Royale (2006) - 26/11/2008 3:33:15 PM   
Deviation


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From: Enemies of Film HQ
Once the hoover chase is over, DAD becomes absolutely awful, not as horrible as DAF but horrible. Casino Royale was a good reboot a gave the franchise new breath. It's a tad forgettable and can be too slow for it's own good, but it was still a satisfying experience, though nowhere as emotianally involving as that little film called On Her Majesty's Secret Service, which the film tried to imatate in Venice. Maybe Green's character wasn't as good or memorable as Rigg's, or maybe becuase it was just forced and out of place(a whole building was falling, she was begging for death, to contrasting things happening at once).

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 177
RE: The Bond Thread: 21 - Casino Royale (2006) - 26/11/2008 3:41:00 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
Will be doing a review soonish now I've seen it again.


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Post #: 178
RE: The Bond Thread: 21 - Casino Royale (2006) - 30/11/2008 10:26:33 AM   
Vadersville


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Hurry up!!! 

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Post #: 179
RE: The Bond Thread: 17 - GoldenEye (1995) - 3/12/2008 8:58:04 PM   
Vadersville


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Where is this review already?

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