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Have to have an origin - 31/10/2008 4:51:58 AM

ASonic77

Posts: 16
Joined: 13/3/2008

If you don't have an origin and just have Superman show up in the movie will be cheesy. Then that means everybody is requesting a half-ass movie. The characters and the story line must have depth, not just action. Character development is key. That's what Bryan Singer was trying to accomplish with Superman Returns. Give the guy a break, he had to spark up the franchise somehow after 19 years.

(in reply to Empire Admin)

Post #: 91

- 31/10/2008 9:51:42 AM

methves

Posts: 1
Joined: 15/7/2008

That is, quite simply, the most absurd idea I have ever heard. Superman is about HOPE! Doesn't seem like a lot of hope when we're all dead! It sounds like an interesting movie, as long as it has absolutely nothing to do with Superman. How about we let someone who understands the character direct the movie. Like Bryan Singer.

(in reply to Empire Admin)

Post #: 92

RE: - 31/10/2008 3:56:00 PM

KeithM

Posts: 862
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: methves
Like Bryan Singer.

And you expect people to take you seriously after that?

(in reply to methves)

Post #: 93

RE: RE: - 31/10/2008 4:56:42 PM

Tech_Noir

Posts: 20203
Joined: 12/10/2005

How about Superman meets I Am Legend?

Last man on Earth, only it's Superman! Battling vampires!

(in reply to KeithM)

Post #: 94

RE: RE: - 31/10/2008 7:04:14 PM

Mr Terrific

Posts: 1639
Joined: 15/7/2006

Millar is not the man for Superman. Grant Morrison is.

_____________________________

..."lost like tears in the rain....."

"He claims he is a man. And one of the things about being a man is getting knocked on your ass and learning from it."

http://www.dccomics.com/heroes_and_villains/?hv=origin_stories/mr_terrific

(in reply to Tech_Noir)

Post #: 95

I Think Its a GREAT Idea! - 31/10/2008 7:31:36 PM

Kieran_belshaw

Posts: 1
Joined: 14/12/2006

One thing that always seems to be a constant on imdb and things like this where the public give their opinion is that people are so negative! they always say how 'they' would make it better. Well having read about Mark Millar's vision for a trilogy, I think its brilliant. It has the potential to be 3 very mature, moving films about 'the godfather' of superheroes and the ending is very fitting for such an indestructible character. I hope this idea makes it to the screen!

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Post #: 96

RE: I Think Its a GREAT Idea! - 31/10/2008 9:06:45 PM

Tech_Noir

Posts: 20203
Joined: 12/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kieran_belshaw

One thing that always seems to be a constant on imdb and things like this where the public give their opinion is that people are so negative! they always say how 'they' would make it better. Well having read about Mark Millar's vision for a trilogy, I think its brilliant. It has the potential to be 3 very mature, moving films about 'the godfather' of superheroes and the ending is very fitting for such an indestructible character. I hope this idea makes it to the screen!

Agreed.

Best of all it's trying something new and different.

(in reply to Kieran_belshaw)

Post #: 97

RE: I Think Its a GREAT Idea! - 31/10/2008 10:49:10 PM

darth silas

Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room

Whatever happens,in the next movie,Superman MUST fight a giant spider in the third act!

Actually that sounds like a better ending than Singer came up with!

_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

(in reply to Tech_Noir)

Post #: 98

Interesting - 1/11/2008 12:48:13 AM

bababoozer

Posts: 1
Joined: 1/11/2008

While his idea is incredibly interesting, it is also super-depressing. The story serves a purpose, but NO ONE wants to be bummed out at the end of a Superman movie. Or do they?

(in reply to Empire Admin)

Post #: 99

RE: Interesting - 1/11/2008 2:09:51 PM

KeithM

Posts: 862
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: bababoozer

While his idea is incredibly interesting, it is also super-depressing. The story serves a purpose, but NO ONE wants to be bummed out at the end of a Superman movie. Or do they?

Even if it is 4 billion years into the future?

It might not be a 'bummer' moment. It may be poignant, beautiful and fitting...

Saying that, who's to say that all the humans who had left Earth wouldn't come back in their super-evolved forms and help out Superman who is, as far as they're concerned, a more primitive life form at that point. With their advanced technology they could revive him and put him in a zoo or something.

(in reply to bababoozer)

Post #: 100

RE: Exclusive: Mark Millar Talks Superman - 1/11/2008 4:11:16 PM

Mason Verger

Posts: 4724
Joined: 13/1/2006
From: Bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri

quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithM

quote:

ORIGINAL: bababoozer

While his idea is incredibly interesting, it is also super-depressing. The story serves a purpose, but NO ONE wants to be bummed out at the end of a Superman movie. Or do they?

Even if it is 4 billion years into the future?

It might not be a 'bummer' moment. It may be poignant, beautiful and fitting...

Saying that, who's to say that all the humans who had left Earth wouldn't come back in their super-evolved forms and help out Superman who is, as far as they're concerned, a more primitive life form at that point. With their advanced technology they could revive him and put him in a zoo or something.

Bryan Singer probably does.

_____________________________

Mind like parachute - only function when open.

Be excellent to each other.

(in reply to KeithM)

Post #: 101

- 1/11/2008 5:47:07 PM

marscentral

Posts: 6
Joined: 28/11/2006

As long as he spends more time being Superman and less time being a stalker/dead-beat dad, I'll be happy. He is more powerful than a locomotive, let's see some of that too.

(in reply to Empire Admin)

Post #: 102

RE: Interesting - 1/11/2008 6:26:42 PM

Dirty Hartigan

Posts: 5890
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithM

Saying that, who's to say that all the humans who had left Earth wouldn't come back in their super-evolved forms and help out Superman who is, as far as they're concerned, a more primitive life form at that point. With their advanced technology they could revive him and put him in a zoo or something.

Sounds like something out of a Kubrick film.

(in reply to KeithM)

Post #: 103

Please, no... - 3/11/2008 12:50:25 AM

Just Another Guy

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/11/2008

The idea that a Superman trilogy would end like that angers me to no end. When did this idiotic world decide to make Superman a tragic character?

I never understood the “Superman lives forever” concept to begin with, but if that’s the weird understanding of a Kryptonian life that we want to embrace, at least have the decency to end his story on a happy note, instead of shoving it in our faces that he lives until the entire human race has died off.

That would be the dumbest ending to a Superman story I’ve ever heard of. He’s supposed to be on the opposite end of the spectrum to Batman. Batman is dark and depressing. Superman is supposed to give us hope, make us happy.

The entire world is dead, and Superman lives alone until the universe renders him mortal? Ridiculous.

(in reply to Empire Admin)

Post #: 104

RE: Please, no... - 3/11/2008 8:13:06 AM

KeithM

Posts: 862
Joined: 31/7/2008

Would you rather see Superman suffer alone for all time, until the stars go out and the universe dies slowly of the final heat death?

Has it occurred to you that it might be a happy ending? A reward - the final peace after all his toil...

Scientifically speaking, life on Earth will become uninhabitable 3-4 billion years before the sun becomes a red giant - as the gradual rising temperature of the sun heats Earth, until, in about a billion years or so, the planet will be too hot to support liquid water - or life at that point. So all humanity must have left Earth by then or we're all dead anyway.

Given that, we can assume Superman leaves Earth too and either goes off with the billion-years-evolved humans (likely every bit as powerful as Superman by then) or he goes off alone to explore the universe or whatever. Let's consider he does that for a while - say 3 or 4 billion years or so. By that time, humanity wouldn't even be recognisable - and probably not even humanoid - so Superman has little in common with them any longer. He's seen enough, fought enough, grieved enough to weary any being - even Superman. He knows he cannot die as long as there is yellow sun radiation in the universe to sustain him, but he's tired and wants to rest... he misses Lois and Jimmy and his mom and Lana. He misses Earth. He thinks. "That would be a nice place to remember, to sleep and to dream a final time." Then, as he sits on the parched desert planet watching the still yellow, but dark and tempestuous sun spurt and flicker, he remembers his beginnings, where his heart still belongs (cue flashback montage sequence), when the sun seems to sputter out for the briefest moment before turning blood red and expanding to fill the sky... Superman smiles serenely and utters one word before closing his eyes against the red glare. "Lois."

Bet you cry. Bet you'll leave that cinema deleriously happy after seeing the perfect end to an epic 3 movie Superman story.

At least I'm trying to imagine it positively...

(in reply to Just Another Guy)

Post #: 105

RE: Re: Please, no... - 3/11/2008 11:46:36 PM

Just Another Guy

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/11/2008

To KeithM:
Maybe you should read my post again. I understand all that stuff you said. The point is, I think it's a horrific idea. For starters, I don't like the idea that Superman lives forever, invincible or not. He grew from childhood to adulthood like a normal human being, and he should age like a normal human being (albeit more gracefully, and with a longer lifespan).
If he does live forever, I don't see why we should have to see his death. Billions of years in the future (as if the world will still be here by then) is far, FAR out of the entire point of Superman's story. It's not a poignant, beautiful, moving ending. It's depressing, ignorant, unneccessary. It's like ending Batman's story with an old, wheelchair-bound Bruce Wayne on his deathbed. What's the point?
And can I just say that the story of Superman should be about Lois Lane and his attempt to live a normal life. Not about his immortality. Gosh, I hate this immortal angle that Superman has been given. I'd rather know that he gave his life in a blaze of glory (as he did with Doomsday) than outlive all of humanity.
By the way, in 3 or 4 billion years, he wouldn't even REMEMBER Lois and Jimmy anymore.
I hope people can understand where I'm coming from. Superman deserves a happy ending. A TRUE happy ending. Let him get the girl. Let him beat the badguy. And let the movie end with an assurance that Superman will always watch out for Metropolis, Earth, "truth, justice, the American way..."
What good is Lois Lane if she becomes nothing more than an ancient memory by story's end? The idea that Superman's story would end this way cheapens her, in my eyes.

(in reply to Empire Admin)

Post #: 106

RE: Re: Please, no... - 4/11/2008 3:06:41 PM

panthergod

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/11/2008

Hello people.

Let me say, first of all, what all true fans of Superman already know: Superman r?eturns was a mediocre, if not horrible, superman movie. aside from the fact that it was a warmed over rip off of the first two donner superman films, the fact is that ony virtually every level the story falls apart. the idea that superman would abandon humanity to search for a planet that he knows is dead, leave without telling Lois, and to boot, leave her pregnant with his baby to fend for himself is absolultey ludicrous. Superman can hear people across the world but his super senses can't detect the hormonal changes that indicate pregnancy in the human being he's is most often around? The reality, is Singer's Super Simp 'sensitive 'new man' portrayal is a betrayal of everything the character stands for: integrity, honor, moral clarity, self confidence in the face of struggle, and well, just plain being a MAN. Singer Superman is the typical post-modern deadbeat dad. Nevermind Giggolo Lex Luthor, clark-crush Jimmy Olsen, etc.

Now on to Millar., Millar is one of the handful of comic book writers that truly GET the character and what he stands for. His Superman is confident, moral, genius, and resourceful--exactly what the character was invented to. be. Superman is suposed to represent the best in humanity, an example of what humanity will eventually become when he evolve to a higher state. That's what Krypton was: a planet of superevolved humans. His task on Earth is to help shepard and protect humanity and serve as an inspiration for us to attain that state in the future. Richard Donner understood and that's why the Jor-El quote of "they can be a great people Kal-0el they wish to be; they only lack the lgith to show them the way. For this I have sent them you, my only son" is such a powerful summary of the core of the Superman mythos.

now, for those who don't like millars idea of Superman being there for Earth desctruction because it is "depressine"..not at all.

First off Superman has ALWAYS been a tragic figure. chirstssakes, his origin is that he's the last survivor of a planet exploding. the original Superman's foster aprents died too. His secret identity allows him to be close to humans, but he always stands apart, by virtue of his power, his inabililty to truly be himself around his friends, and his inabililty to reveal himself fully to the love of his life Lois. Superman has ALWAYS been tragic, and that's a component of the cultural themes he inhereted from his Jewish-American creators.

As for millar's idea of Sueprman being immortal--that's what Superman is. Immortal. He can be killed but he doesn't die of old age so long as he's still absorbing yellow solar energy. This has been true since at least the 50's.

Millar actually placed this idea in official DC Universe continuity during his Flash run:
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/panthergod/Superman/MillarFlash--Supermanimmortal.jpg

Superman being immortal is CANON.

There are multiple futures where Sueprman is immortal and lived on to be a god, ala Grant Morrison's DC One Million crossover and All Star Superman, where Superman travels the universe for thousands of years, eventually settles in the Sun and uses it for a new fotress of Solitude for a Thousand years before emerging as a Golden Sun God, Superman Prime:
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/panthergod/Superman/DC1Million-SupermanPrime1.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/panthergod/Superman/DC1Million-SupermanPrime2.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/panthergod/Superman/DC1Million-SupermanPrime3.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/panthergod/Superman/DC1Million-SupermanPrime4.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/panthergod/Superman/DC1Million-SupermanPrime5.jpg

Elliot S! Maggin is one of the if not THE best Superman writers of all time

He truly GETS the character at his thematic archetypal and symbolic core.

He wrote a story detailing Superman potential future where he looks back a remainices on his history. Its called Luthor's Gift.

Read it here:
http://theages.superman.nu/u/maggin/luthors-gift/

Now if you can read that, and not think that that is one of the best Superman stories ever and that Millar's idea could be done EXCELLENTLY if executed prpoerly, then you aren't a Superman fan.

(in reply to Just Another Guy)

Post #: 107

RE: Re: Please, no... - 4/11/2008 4:37:20 PM

DONOVAN KURTWOOD

Posts: 7671
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

We don't really need another Superman movie, i mean, we've had 5 already!

_____________________________

Pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip!

(in reply to panthergod)

Post #: 108

Exclusive: Mark Millar Talks Superman - 4/11/2008 6:36:13 PM

Mason Verger

Posts: 4724
Joined: 13/1/2006
From: Bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

We don't really need another Superman movie, i mean, we've had 5 already!

We do because he's only been done well twice (in Superman 1 and 2). A Superman film that combines ideas from the comic books with modern film technology has the potential to be something really special.

_____________________________

Mind like parachute - only function when open.

Be excellent to each other.

(in reply to DONOVAN KURTWOOD)

Post #: 109

RE: Exclusive: Mark Millar Talks Superman - 4/11/2008 6:54:36 PM

DONOVAN KURTWOOD

Posts: 7671
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mason Verger

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

We don't really need another Superman movie, i mean, we've had 5 already!

We do because he's only been done well twice (in Superman 1 and 2). A Superman film that combines ideas from the comic books with modern film technology has the potential to be something really special.

isn't that what returns was supposed to be? Look how that turned out! I feel like that character has had its screen due, like Batman, ENOUGH already!! How something that we haven't had on the big screen

_____________________________

Pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip!

(in reply to Mason Verger)

Post #: 110

RE: Exclusive: Mark Millar Talks Superman - 4/11/2008 7:18:11 PM

Mason Verger

Posts: 4724
Joined: 13/1/2006
From: Bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mason Verger

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

We don't really need another Superman movie, i mean, we've had 5 already!

We do because he's only been done well twice (in Superman 1 and 2). A Superman film that combines ideas from the comic books with modern film technology has the potential to be something really special.

isn't that what returns was supposed to be? Look how that turned out! I feel like that character has had its screen due, like Batman, ENOUGH already!! How something that we haven't had on the big screen

That's because Superman Returns is one of the most hopelessly inept super hero movies ever made. And it had barely a single original idea of its own. What's needed is a really involving plot.

_____________________________

Mind like parachute - only function when open.

Be excellent to each other.

(in reply to DONOVAN KURTWOOD)

Post #: 111

RE: Exclusive: Mark Millar Talks Superman - 4/11/2008 8:25:14 PM

DONOVAN KURTWOOD

Posts: 7671
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mason Verger

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mason Verger

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

We don't really need another Superman movie, i mean, we've had 5 already!

We do because he's only been done well twice (in Superman 1 and 2). A Superman film that combines ideas from the comic books with modern film technology has the potential to be something really special.

isn't that what returns was supposed to be? Look how that turned out! I feel like that character has had its screen due, like Batman, ENOUGH already!! How something that we haven't had on the big screen

That's because Superman Returns is one of the most hopelessly inept super hero movies ever made. And it had barely a single original idea of its own. What's needed is a really involving plot.

You're absolutely right, so why did it receive five star reviews and have everyone single person working in the cinema i was working in at the time think it was the second coming??????? It was hopeless like you say! As awful as Singer's X Men movies!

_____________________________

Pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip!

(in reply to Mason Verger)

Post #: 112

RE: Exclusive: Mark Millar Talks Superman - 4/11/2008 9:22:39 PM

KeithM

Posts: 862
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD
You're absolutely right, so why did it receive five star reviews and have everyone single person working in the cinema i was working in at the time think it was the second coming???????

You'll have to ask the reviewers that. Did you know they gave Indy IV 4 stars, even after the backlash of the 5 star SR review. No shame. No ethics.

As for people liking it - X-Factor is more popular than The Wire. Go figure.

(in reply to DONOVAN KURTWOOD)

Post #: 113

I already know that - 4/11/2008 11:59:38 PM

Just Another Guy

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/11/2008

I'm aware that Superman is potentially immortal. But he shouldn't live forever. Canon doesn't matter, considering it changes regularly. It's senseless, IMO. Superman grew up normally. He should age. He should eventually die. If that's the total opposite of what DC has established, I blame DC.

I know this is a matter of opinion, but expecting me to change my mind is pointless. This "super-evolved human race" nonsense would make the story even more ridiculous. Jor-El's "great people, Kal-El" speech represents the SPIRIT of the human race. That's what Superman is supposed to represent.

Superman has not always been a tragic figure, per se. A lonely figure, perhaps. But the tragedy angle has been amplified over time. His place on Earth is supposed to represent his surrogate life. What good is a 70-year life with Lois if he lives 4 billion years afterward? It completely ruins Superman's dynamic with the rest of the world, including his identity as Clark Kent (who would eventually have to become obsolete when he doesn't age in public!).

Furthermore, all this godlike baloney kills the humanity of Superman, in my eyes. They've tried to inject our hero with so much psychological / spiritual analogy that they've overcomplicated him to no end.

To say that I am not a Superman fan because I find such concepts appalling is ridiculous. I can't believe I'm the only person who would feel this way.

(in reply to Empire Admin)

Post #: 114

RE: I already know that - 6/11/2008 3:08:20 PM

waltham1979

Posts: 1012
Joined: 18/3/2008
From: San-Diago, which is German for 'Whales virgina'...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just Another Guy

I'm aware that Superman is potentially immortal. But he shouldn't live forever. Canon doesn't matter, considering it changes regularly. It's senseless, IMO. Superman grew up normally. He should age. He should eventually die. If that's the total opposite of what DC has established, I blame DC.

I know this is a matter of opinion, but expecting me to change my mind is pointless. This "super-evolved human race" nonsense would make the story even more ridiculous. Jor-El's "great people, Kal-El" speech represents the SPIRIT of the human race. That's what Superman is supposed to represent.

Superman has not always been a tragic figure, per se. A lonely figure, perhaps. But the tragedy angle has been amplified over time. His place on Earth is supposed to represent his surrogate life. What good is a 70-year life with Lois if he lives 4 billion years afterward? It completely ruins Superman's dynamic with the rest of the world, including his identity as Clark Kent (who would eventually have to become obsolete when he doesn't age in public!).

Furthermore, all this godlike baloney kills the humanity of Superman, in my eyes. They've tried to inject our hero with so much psychological / spiritual analogy that they've overcomplicated him to no end.

To say that I am not a Superman fan because I find such concepts appalling is ridiculous. I can't believe I'm the only person who would feel this way.

not wanting to jump on the bandwagon I agree with you. To me Superman is the one Superhero/comic that doesnt need or necessarily work with all the angst - hate the idea of a "Dark Knight" style Superman film.

I love The Dark Knight but all we have now are film makers, comic book writers and studios lazily banding around differant comics and trying to excite people by just saying "we will do with place superhero name here what the Dark Knight did for Batman".

Please don't linch but I enjoyed Returns, it has its faults (calm down Keith

) but I don't like the idea of the ending being put forward - its a stinker !! To me Superman is about hope, national pride, strength - cant think of a worse ending then the world dead and him quickly to follow - unless we go down the depressing, dark movie for Superman which I hope we don't !!

_____________________________

It's a funny world we live in. Speaking of which, do you know how I got these scars?

(in reply to Just Another Guy)

Post #: 115

RE: Exclusive: Mark Millar Talks Superman - 6/11/2008 3:09:23 PM

waltham1979

Posts: 1012
Joined: 18/3/2008
From: San-Diago, which is German for 'Whales virgina'...

quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithM

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD
You're absolutely right, so why did it receive five star reviews and have everyone single person working in the cinema i was working in at the time think it was the second coming???????

You'll have to ask the reviewers that. Did you know they gave Indy IV 4 stars, even after the backlash of the 5 star SR review. No shame. No ethics.

As for people liking it - X-Factor is more popular than The Wire. Go figure.

Oh and I like IndyIV as well !!

_____________________________

It's a funny world we live in. Speaking of which, do you know how I got these scars?

(in reply to KeithM)

Post #: 116

RE: Exclusive: Mark Millar Talks Superman - 6/11/2008 5:16:45 PM

Gillhead

Posts: 26
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Switzerland

I loved SR but I'd love to see a Mark Millar trilogy as well.

Just like the 1930's the world needs the hope Superman provides at the moment !!!

To the execs at Warner and DC we need your best efforts, including director, writer, story, cast and crew and we need them now (or as soon a humanly possible).

(in reply to Empire Admin)

Post #: 117

RE: waltham1979 - 6/11/2008 5:30:30 PM

Just Another Guy

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/11/2008

Thank you. Glad to know I'm not alone. In fact, I enjoyed Superman Returns very much. I do, however, believe that Superman deserves a grander, more epic depiction. I just hope that this is not the route they would take. I agree with you that Superman should not end as bleakly as this.

The last words on Superman should always be "hope" and "hero."

(in reply to Empire Admin)

Post #: 118

Superman Returns was 'alright'... but... - 2/10/2009 4:05:05 PM

mancalledpete

Posts: 103
Joined: 3/5/2006

...do Superman some justice... Superman Returns just felt a bit pedestrian... Why bother with another Lex Luthor story? Why bother with the kid (that was soooo stupid) and why not give Superman something more 'super' to deal with than falling spaceships and some loony story line about krytonite islands... Give us a good baddy... Metallio or Doomsday or something meaty. WHY make it so serious?

(in reply to Empire Admin)

Post #: 119