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ORIGINAL: Goodfella

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ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

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ORIGINAL: Goodfella

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ORIGINAL: sharkboy

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ORIGINAL: Goodfella


Dare you to pop over onto News and Hot Topics and state that first part. Over there this is an act of social decline and lack of opportunities, we'll forget the fact the BBC have already released messages passed between many of the rioters and looters which is visible proof that many of them are members of gangs and are not intent on making a point with the politics and stateheads of this country, but rather getting their hands on as many stolen items as they can.

As you should know, that's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the debate in that thread.  The point that has been made repeatedly (but that you have continuously chosen to ignore) is that  recognising that there are underlying social problems in the area does not mean that you side with the looters and rioters, or even think they're anything but opportunist criminals.  Rather it is recognition that quelling the riots won't necessarily make the problems disappear.

At what point have I said anything im my above post about "siding with the looters." I've said that it's being claimed an act of social decline and lack of opportunities, which has been directly stated on News and Hot Topics. So your reply is a gross misrepresentation of my above post isn't it?

Again Goodfella, the social decline and lack of opportunities are being discussed in the context of quite clearly crimminal behaviour - but they are the conidtions for such an event to happen. That is a distinction that has to be made.

No one is saying these are poor innocent lambs, but at the same time what is being said, is what is the background to all of this, that let riots of the scale across the country, take place.

It's interesting though, areas like Ealing, for example, are very affulent, they are not your typical suburban areas of London that suffer from high crime rates and low income thresholds. Judging from the interviews some media outlets have managed to obtain with some of the rioters and looters, they don't really seem to have much care for why they are doing this, "let's go and get some watches." They seem to be enjoying the thrill and the chase of what they are doing, they don't seem to be frustrated with their own social situations and are destroying their own communities and employment opportunities around them. As I've already stated, evidence is building that more and more of them are criminals by nature anyway, involved in gangland life, in fact one this morning in court was on license from prison for drug-related charges.

As for rioting across the country, do you not think a lot of this is copycat behaviour?

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ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

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ORIGINAL: Goodfella

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ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

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ORIGINAL: Goodfella

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ORIGINAL: sharkboy

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ORIGINAL: Goodfella


Dare you to pop over onto News and Hot Topics and state that first part. Over there this is an act of social decline and lack of opportunities, we'll forget the fact the BBC have already released messages passed between many of the rioters and looters which is visible proof that many of them are members of gangs and are not intent on making a point with the politics and stateheads of this country, but rather getting their hands on as many stolen items as they can.

As you should know, that's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the debate in that thread.  The point that has been made repeatedly (but that you have continuously chosen to ignore) is that  recognising that there are underlying social problems in the area does not mean that you side with the looters and rioters, or even think they're anything but opportunist criminals.  Rather it is recognition that quelling the riots won't necessarily make the problems disappear.

At what point have I said anything im my above post about "siding with the looters." I've said that it's being claimed an act of social decline and lack of opportunities, which has been directly stated on News and Hot Topics. So your reply is a gross misrepresentation of my above post isn't it?

Again Goodfella, the social decline and lack of opportunities are being discussed in the context of quite clearly crimminal behaviour - but they are the conidtions for such an event to happen. That is a distinction that has to be made.

No one is saying these are poor innocent lambs, but at the same time what is being said, is what is the background to all of this, that let riots of the scale across the country, take place.

It's interesting though, areas like Ealing, for example, are very affulent, they are not your typical suburban areas of London that suffer from high crime rates and low income thresholds. Judging from the interviews some media outlets have managed to obtain with some of the rioters and looters, they don't really seem to have much care for why they are doing this, "let's go and get some watches." They seem to be enjoying the thrill and the chase of what they are doing, they don't seem to be frustrated with their own social situations and are destroying their own communities and employment opportunities around them. As I've already stated, evidence is building that more and more of them are criminals by nature anyway, involved in gangland life, in fact one this morning in court was on license from prison for drug-related charges.

As for rioting across the country, do you not think a lot of this is copycat behaviour?

I actully do find it interesting that areas and people, not normally associated with events such as these, are involved this time. I mean, we have teachers being taken to court - I am not sure how exactly they would be linked in with organised gangs.

And you are right, copycat riots are the likely explanation - but yet we have to ask, why in these areas, and not for instance, somewhere like Glasgow, which has just as many problems. Personally I do not believe we can put a label to this - there is a mix of petty looting, organised crimminal behaviour, kids looking for "fun", and issues which I will admit to having little knowledge as I don't live down there.

But the very fact we have reached this point, with this number of people whose ages go from 9-39, suggests there is some deep rooted problems from which this behaviour has resulted from.

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ORIGINAL: elab49

At the moment it is a reasonable characterisation of your current posting style, Goodfella - you've been told repeatedly that discussing the issues is not the same as condoning the riots yet you continue to ignore these posts and treat many of the people who discuss the issues as if they are saying the riots are OK. Discuss the issues - you'll be wanting to head out with your Adidas and join them next. That was you, wasn't it?

We also don't think much of going to a different thread and making up rubbish about what is in the original thread apparently to provoke further argument.

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ORIGINAL: Goodfella

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ORIGINAL: sharkboy

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ORIGINAL: Goodfella


Dare you to pop over onto News and Hot Topics and state that first part. Over there this is an act of social decline and lack of opportunities, we'll forget the fact the BBC have already released messages passed between many of the rioters and looters which is visible proof that many of them are members of gangs and are not intent on making a point with the politics and stateheads of this country, but rather getting their hands on as many stolen items as they can.

As you should know, that's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the debate in that thread.  The point that has been made repeatedly (but that you have continuously chosen to ignore) is that  recognising that there are underlying social problems in the area does not mean that you side with the looters and rioters, or even think they're anything but opportunist criminals.  Rather it is recognition that quelling the riots won't necessarily make the problems disappear.

At what point have I said anything im my above post about "siding with the looters." I've said that it's being claimed an act of social decline and lack of opportunities, which has been directly stated on News and Hot Topics. So your reply is a gross misrepresentation of my above post isn't it?

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ORIGINAL: sharkboy

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ORIGINAL: Goodfella

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ORIGINAL: sharkboy

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ORIGINAL: Goodfella


Dare you to pop over onto News and Hot Topics and state that first part. Over there this is an act of social decline and lack of opportunities, we'll forget the fact the BBC have already released messages passed between many of the rioters and looters which is visible proof that many of them are members of gangs and are not intent on making a point with the politics and stateheads of this country, but rather getting their hands on as many stolen items as they can.

As you should know, that's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the debate in that thread.  The point that has been made repeatedly (but that you have continuously chosen to ignore) is that  recognising that there are underlying social problems in the area does not mean that you side with the looters and rioters, or even think they're anything but opportunist criminals.  Rather it is recognition that quelling the riots won't necessarily make the problems disappear.

At what point have I said anything im my above post about "siding with the looters." I've said that it's being claimed an act of social decline and lack of opportunities, which has been directly stated on News and Hot Topics. So your reply is a gross misrepresentation of my above post isn't it?

This is getting tiring.    Read my reply again - "the debate in that (i.e. the N&HT) thread - I never mentioned anything about this particular thread except that your post in it did not accurately represent the debate in the other one.

Absolutely nobody in that other thread laid the blame for the riots exclusively with social deprivation/lack of education etc.  But when it was brought into the equation, your response was, and I quote, "I'm making the point that by suggesting that there is a fair reasoning behind this kind of behaviour that that is a suggestion of support for what is taking place" (post #295 if you want to refresh your memory).  How can that possibly be perceived as anything other than "siding with the looters" as I put it above?  Please enlighten.

Also, your post in this thread that I quoted (and have requoted here) clearly says "Over there this is an act of social decline and lack of opportunities, we'll forget the fact the BBC have already released messages passed between many of the rioters and looters which is visible proof that many of them are members of gangs and are not intent on making a point with the politics and stateheads of this country" Now let's look at the underlined phrase.  Surely you can see how "we'll forget the fact" reads exactly like you're accusing people of ignoring the criminal aspects of the events?
So yes, a pretty gross misrepresentation on your part.

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ORIGINAL: Goodfella

No, not at all. I'm making the point that I feel that some of the people involved in these riots are related to inner-city and urban gangs within London, it's got absolutely nothing to do with any of my posts in the forum yesterday. That's my opinion and I'm entitled too it, and it's getting pretty tiring that every time I post, even when it's in a resonable discussion with two other members here about copycat actions and whatnot, I get members like Deviation come along to have a little provoking post rather than actually getting involved in discussing the matters we were. But that'll be ignored, just like my PM was yesterday.

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ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Christ, not this thread too?

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ORIGINAL: sharkboy

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ORIGINAL: Goodfella

No, not at all. I'm making the point that I feel that some of the people involved in these riots are related to inner-city and urban gangs within London, it's got absolutely nothing to do with any of my posts in the forum yesterday. That's my opinion and I'm entitled too it, and it's getting pretty tiring that every time I post, even when it's in a resonable discussion with two other members here about copycat actions and whatnot, I get members like Deviation come along to have a little provoking post rather than actually getting involved in discussing the matters we were. But that'll be ignored, just like my PM was yesterday.

Not one person in this forum has said that gangs aren't involved here.  Just as not one person has said you're not entitled to your opinion.  But when you post in this thread and, yes, grossly misrepresent what was said in the other, then expect to be called out on it.  Your referral to the N&HT thread does tie it to your posts yesterday because it was an attempt to twist the discussion that took place there.

Read the 3rd paragraph of my post above.  Your wording clearly belittled the people who were able to see that there were also social issues underlying the rioting.  "Over there it is an act of social decline and lack of opportunities" is, I'd like to think that even you would agree, a pretty poor and one-sided summary of the 20-odd pages of discussion that have take place.

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ORIGINAL: BatFan

You're just a cunt. If i'm gonna get a ban then fine. Ever since I joined this forum I thought you were a massive cunt. Feels good to say it.

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

Jim, you little scamp. Snake, Stef, HQ (GF?) and your good self are already locked in for it. I was gonna do all the PM-ing and organising of it for a date in very early November. If you guys cannae wait then go for it. I only wish I could be there earlier.
I have some ideas for venues already. Doesn't mean you can't use them too. I guess it kinda depends on how many we drum up. There are others, we just need to rattle their cages is all, ook!

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

One stippend though, and it's water-tight, cast-iron and non-negotiable.....there'll be no politics or anything remotely arguementative. Gentle ribbing of sport and teams is allowed but we are there to get to know each other/get twatted, not to fall out. You wanna do that on the forums, fine, I will not allow it in a place as holy as a pub.
I am not putting myself as some rule-maker (although it really does look like doesn't it?) or even enforcer (grrrr), I just think we can all agree on this as common sense. Our country is in the shite right now and argueing amongst ourselves in a place of worship isn't gonna change anything. Who's with me??

Ok, right, well, nuff said. I was gonna say we must be careful in case there ends up being 100's of us, but hey, it's a London thread and all London forumites (and anyone else who can get there) should be welcomed equally. Out of interst, anyone know how many turned up to the last few meets in London and Edinburgh?

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ORIGINAL: JIm R

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

One stippend though, and it's water-tight, cast-iron and non-negotiable.....there'll be no politics or anything remotely arguementative. Gentle ribbing of sport and teams is allowed but we are there to get to know each other/get twatted, not to fall out. You wanna do that on the forums, fine, I will not allow it in a place as holy as a pub.
I am not putting myself as some rule-maker (although it really does look like doesn't it?) or even enforcer (grrrr), I just think we can all agree on this as common sense. Our country is in the shite right now and argueing amongst ourselves in a place of worship isn't gonna change anything. Who's with me??

Ok, right, well, nuff said. I was gonna say we must be careful in case there ends up being 100's of us, but hey, it's a London thread and all London forumites (and anyone else who can get there) should be welcomed equally. Out of interst, anyone know how many turned up to the last few meets in London and Edinburgh?

Agreed on first paragraph dude. Can only speak for myself (obviously) but am friendliest, warmest, welcoming chap you could meet and won't be starting any arguements.

Be cool to get loads of us.

edit: I think the edinburgh one on the 20th is proving very popular indeed, not been to any previous so not sure of their numbers.

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

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ORIGINAL: JIm R

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

One stippend though, and it's water-tight, cast-iron and non-negotiable.....there'll be no politics or anything remotely arguementative. Gentle ribbing of sport and teams is allowed but we are there to get to know each other/get twatted, not to fall out. You wanna do that on the forums, fine, I will not allow it in a place as holy as a pub.
I am not putting myself as some rule-maker (although it really does look like doesn't it?) or even enforcer (grrrr), I just think we can all agree on this as common sense. Our country is in the shite right now and argueing amongst ourselves in a place of worship isn't gonna change anything. Who's with me??

Ok, right, well, nuff said. I was gonna say we must be careful in case there ends up being 100's of us, but hey, it's a London thread and all London forumites (and anyone else who can get there) should be welcomed equally. Out of interst, anyone know how many turned up to the last few meets in London and Edinburgh?

Agreed on first paragraph dude. Can only speak for myself (obviously) but am friendliest, warmest, welcoming chap you could meet and won't be starting any arguements.

Be cool to get loads of us.

edit: I think the edinburgh one on the 20th is proving very popular indeed, not been to any previous so not sure of their numbers.

Yeah Jim, that's what Shipman's neighbours said. Probably. It'll be all fine I'm sure. Otherwise can you imagine the tales told (as there will be regardless) on here after the event of 2 drunken forumites fighting over LOTR Vs Star Wars? Hi-sterical.

Besides, I know welsh Kung-Fu!
Meeahhh

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ORIGINAL: JIm R

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

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ORIGINAL: JIm R

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

One stippend though, and it's water-tight, cast-iron and non-negotiable.....there'll be no politics or anything remotely arguementative. Gentle ribbing of sport and teams is allowed but we are there to get to know each other/get twatted, not to fall out. You wanna do that on the forums, fine, I will not allow it in a place as holy as a pub.
I am not putting myself as some rule-maker (although it really does look like doesn't it?) or even enforcer (grrrr), I just think we can all agree on this as common sense. Our country is in the shite right now and argueing amongst ourselves in a place of worship isn't gonna change anything. Who's with me??

Ok, right, well, nuff said. I was gonna say we must be careful in case there ends up being 100's of us, but hey, it's a London thread and all London forumites (and anyone else who can get there) should be welcomed equally. Out of interst, anyone know how many turned up to the last few meets in London and Edinburgh?

Agreed on first paragraph dude. Can only speak for myself (obviously) but am friendliest, warmest, welcoming chap you could meet and won't be starting any arguements.

Be cool to get loads of us.

edit: I think the edinburgh one on the 20th is proving very popular indeed, not been to any previous so not sure of their numbers.

Yeah Jim, that's what Shipman's neighbours said. Probably. It'll be all fine I'm sure. Otherwise can you imagine the tales told (as there will be regardless) on here after the event of 2 drunken forumites fighting over LOTR Vs Star Wars? Hi-sterical.

Besides, I know welsh Kung-Fu!
Meeahhh

Really I am. Or Star Trek v LOTR v Star Wars even, I don't know kung fu, but I have seen the Matrix

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

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ORIGINAL: JIm R

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

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ORIGINAL: JIm R

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

One stippend though, and it's water-tight, cast-iron and non-negotiable.....there'll be no politics or anything remotely arguementative. Gentle ribbing of sport and teams is allowed but we are there to get to know each other/get twatted, not to fall out. You wanna do that on the forums, fine, I will not allow it in a place as holy as a pub.
I am not putting myself as some rule-maker (although it really does look like doesn't it?) or even enforcer (grrrr), I just think we can all agree on this as common sense. Our country is in the shite right now and argueing amongst ourselves in a place of worship isn't gonna change anything. Who's with me??

Ok, right, well, nuff said. I was gonna say we must be careful in case there ends up being 100's of us, but hey, it's a London thread and all London forumites (and anyone else who can get there) should be welcomed equally. Out of interst, anyone know how many turned up to the last few meets in London and Edinburgh?

Agreed on first paragraph dude. Can only speak for myself (obviously) but am friendliest, warmest, welcoming chap you could meet and won't be starting any arguements.

Be cool to get loads of us.

edit: I think the edinburgh one on the 20th is proving very popular indeed, not been to any previous so not sure of their numbers.

Yeah Jim, that's what Shipman's neighbours said. Probably. It'll be all fine I'm sure. Otherwise can you imagine the tales told (as there will be regardless) on here after the event of 2 drunken forumites fighting over LOTR Vs Star Wars? Hi-sterical.

Besides, I know welsh Kung-Fu!
Meeahhh

Really I am. Or Star Trek v LOTR v Star Wars even, I don't know kung fu, but I have seen the Matrix

WHOA

And I know Jimmer. Everyone has good things to say about you. Apart from that time you ripped into someone. I can't remember when or where but it was most un-Jimmer-like. Still, not like it's your default setting old bean. I think they may have deserved it. Might have been Squid, really can't remember.

3-way pub smash-up? LOTS Vs Star Wars Vs Star Trek? Now that I would pay to see. Specially if they came fan-boyed-up.

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

I knew it. I knew it. I knew there was enough room for a teensy bit of negativity. So you were most pleased when he was de-modded then? No, no, I'm opening up a can of worms. I don't really hate anyone, although there are some real cadbury's fruit and nut-jobs on here. And a few really nasty twats too. But not hate yet. More pity really.
Feel free to PM should you wish to relive anything. Otherwise, back On Topic. Tee hee.

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ORIGINAL: BatFan

You're just a cunt. If i'm gonna get a ban then fine. Ever since I joined this forum I thought you were a massive cunt. Feels good to say it.

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

I knew it. I knew it. I knew there was enough room for a teensy bit of negativity. So you were most pleased when he was de-modded then? No, no, I'm opening up a can of worms. I don't really hate anyone, although there are some real cadbury's fruit and nut-jobs on here. And a few really nasty twats too. But not hate yet. More pity really.
Feel free to PM should you wish to relive anything. Otherwise, back On Topic. Tee hee.

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ORIGINAL: gazpop

If some of us want to go on the pull we can just stop in Harley Street

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ORIGINAL: steffols
we can roam these vast Empire halls as awesome Stefs.

ORIGINAL: hiptobesquare_x
'and that's why Steflon is all kinds of awesome.'