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RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 8/7/2012 1:58:00 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8279
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lazarus munkey


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

Though if it is expanding (as it appears to be), presumably there must be something it is expanding into

No, because there's nothing there. No space to move into, no time to exist in. All of reality is within the universe. Into has no meaning.



Possibly depends on whether we have an infinite or finite universe. A finite universe requires expansion into something, though either idea defies true comprehension. Stuff like this bends my swede to be honest.

(in reply to Lazarus munkey)
Post #: 211
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 8/7/2012 1:59:42 PM   
Rinc


Posts: 12835
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: A park bench, with a newspaper quilt

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lazarus munkey

The universe is finite but boundless, which is to say it is not infinite but there's no edge to reach.
Imagine travelling the surface of the Earth. Assuming you can cross oceans and mountains, you would travel forever, theoretically as the surface of the Earth is finite but boundless. The key is trying to imagine the same idea with an extra dimension. It can be demonstrated mathematically but can't be drawn.


But earth has the sky above it so whilst you can travel around it in two dimensions, there's a third dimension above and below it. I don't understand how space can have an extra dimension which means it's finite.

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Post #: 212
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 8/7/2012 2:03:18 PM   
Lazarus munkey


Posts: 1650
Joined: 20/3/2006
From: out of nowhere

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lazarus munkey

The universe is finite but boundless, which is to say it is not infinite but there's no edge to reach.
Imagine travelling the surface of the Earth. Assuming you can cross oceans and mountains, you would travel forever, theoretically as the surface of the Earth is finite but boundless. The key is trying to imagine the same idea with an extra dimension. It can be demonstrated mathematically but can't be drawn.


But earth has the sky above it so whilst you can travel around it in two dimensions, there's a third dimension above and below it. I don't understand how space can have an extra dimension which means it's finite.

As I said, it can be demonstrated relatively easily mathematically, just not drawn.

I posted this book on the previous page. Explains it all much better than I can.
Click

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Post #: 213
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 8/7/2012 2:15:11 PM   
Rinc


Posts: 12835
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: A park bench, with a newspaper quilt

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lazarus munkey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lazarus munkey

The universe is finite but boundless, which is to say it is not infinite but there's no edge to reach.
Imagine travelling the surface of the Earth. Assuming you can cross oceans and mountains, you would travel forever, theoretically as the surface of the Earth is finite but boundless. The key is trying to imagine the same idea with an extra dimension. It can be demonstrated mathematically but can't be drawn.


But earth has the sky above it so whilst you can travel around it in two dimensions, there's a third dimension above and below it. I don't understand how space can have an extra dimension which means it's finite.

As I said, it can be demonstrated relatively easily mathematically, just not drawn.

I posted this book on the previous page. Explains it all much better than I can.
Click


I've added that to my Amazon list, thanks.

I would like it drawn out for me though, preferably with crayolas.

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No spoilers please:

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Post #: 214
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 8/7/2012 2:23:33 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Do we know what shool thinks about this?

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Post #: 215
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 8/7/2012 6:58:44 PM   
Lazarus munkey


Posts: 1650
Joined: 20/3/2006
From: out of nowhere
Who?

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Post #: 216
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 9/7/2012 12:09:43 AM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
Yeah, where is shool BTW?!

_____________________________

Art

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Post #: 217
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 9/7/2012 9:46:11 AM   
shool


Posts: 10114
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Woger


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebenectomy

You don't think it's a problem that fundamentalist christian groups (many based in the US) have put pressure on the National Trust to include this as part of the exhibit? We've already had to put up with campaigns over here to get the Ulster Museum to run creationist exhibitions along side evolution and other natural history and science features. I have serious issues with this, especially as the Causeway centre will be used for educational school trips.


No I don't think it is. As it says in the NT's press release, "We reflect, in a small part of the exhibition, that the Causeway played a role in the historic debate about the formation of the earth, and that for some people this debate continues today", which I think is a healthy thing to be discussing myself. As they go on to say, "The National Trust fully supports the scientific explanation for the creation of the stones 60 million years ago", so I don't think there is any confusion as to which of the two theories is the one being encouraged by the visitors centre.

The article that you linked doesn't seem to mention US christian groups in direct reference to this issue.



Aka the insane.


It's interesting that a whole bunch of dissenters align religion with mental illness, which I actually find to be a little harsh. I can't help but feel such bland tarring is probably putting off those of us that don't feel that way from contributing to this thread too, lest thee be declared bonkers!

It's a shame too, because there are a bunch of posters on here that do hold those beliefs, and it'd be interesting to read their thoughts on the subject.


I find these boards to be so against religion and ready to tear it down that I dont see the point in engaging on it anymore.
I'm not a YEC just for the record.

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Post #: 218
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 9/7/2012 10:49:37 AM   
blackduck


Posts: 1604
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Woger


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebenectomy

You don't think it's a problem that fundamentalist christian groups (many based in the US) have put pressure on the National Trust to include this as part of the exhibit? We've already had to put up with campaigns over here to get the Ulster Museum to run creationist exhibitions along side evolution and other natural history and science features. I have serious issues with this, especially as the Causeway centre will be used for educational school trips.


No I don't think it is. As it says in the NT's press release, "We reflect, in a small part of the exhibition, that the Causeway played a role in the historic debate about the formation of the earth, and that for some people this debate continues today", which I think is a healthy thing to be discussing myself. As they go on to say, "The National Trust fully supports the scientific explanation for the creation of the stones 60 million years ago", so I don't think there is any confusion as to which of the two theories is the one being encouraged by the visitors centre.

The article that you linked doesn't seem to mention US christian groups in direct reference to this issue.



Aka the insane.


It's interesting that a whole bunch of dissenters align religion with mental illness, which I actually find to be a little harsh. I can't help but feel such bland tarring is probably putting off those of us that don't feel that way from contributing to this thread too, lest thee be declared bonkers!

It's a shame too, because there are a bunch of posters on here that do hold those beliefs, and it'd be interesting to read their thoughts on the subject.


I find these boards to be so against religion and ready to tear it down that I dont see the point in engaging on it anymore.
I'm not a YEC just for the record.


Hey Shool, I generally don't post much around here , more of a reader than a writer.
But I've always enjoyed you posts, I don't agree with much of what you say, but I've always found your views informative .
And in discussions like this it's important to have someone who can articulate the ortherside of the debete.
Like you siad most of us here are more or less on the same opnions on religion if there isn't someone to challange the ideas the discussion looses a lot of it's merit. Hopefully someone else will back me up and phrase this better! Anyway I for one hope you keep posting.


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Post #: 219
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 9:40:41 AM   
shool


Posts: 10114
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blackduck

Hey Shool, I generally don't post much around here , more of a reader than a writer.
But I've always enjoyed you posts, I don't agree with much of what you say, but I've always found your views informative .
And in discussions like this it's important to have someone who can articulate the ortherside of the debete.
Like you siad most of us here are more or less on the same opnions on religion if there isn't someone to challange the ideas the discussion looses a lot of it's merit. Hopefully someone else will back me up and phrase this better! Anyway I for one hope you keep posting.



Thanks BD, I appreciate that.

However, I've had lengthy debates on it several times now and I dont have the time or fight in me at the moment.
Plus people can always read my previous wars in the "blood transfusion" thread here and the "does religion have a place in ths day and age" thread here

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Post #: 220
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 11:17:09 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18243
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
At the end of the day religion is about belief and that is a personal thing. As long as it hurts no one, is not enforced upon others and makes that person happy then good for them to have something which gives them comfort. If however it inspires guilt, hatred and spite, which sadly is something which occurs in some, then not so good.

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Post #: 221
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 12:30:53 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
I'm mega guilty of being down (VERY down) on all types of religion, often vocally so, but this...

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia
At the end of the day religion is about belief and that is a personal thing. As long as it hurts no one, is not enforced upon others and makes that person happy then good for them to have something which gives them comfort.


...has reminded me of a Patton Oswalt (also famous for being an atheist) skit which goes something along the lines of:
"What if I believed, and I mean REALLY believed, in a giant invisible anus floating in the sky, and in that giant invisible anus there were shit piranhas which would come down and eat me if I was a bad person? The correct response to that would of course be 'well, I think that's fucking insane, but I acknowledge your belief in the giant invisible anus and its shit piranhas and if it keeps you being a kind, humble and helpful person, then PLEASE don't stop believing in the giant invisible anus in the sky and its shit piranhas' ".

So I, and others, need to apply that to real life and remember it sometimes.

On the other hand, I don't think ANYONE can defend any religions which either promote, permit or overlook bad happenings.

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Post #: 222
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 1:40:14 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

...has reminded me of a Patton Oswalt (also famous for being an atheist) skit which goes something along the lines of:
"What if I believed, and I mean REALLY believed, in a giant invisible anus floating in the sky, and in that giant invisible anus there were shit piranhas which would come down and eat me if I was a bad person? The correct response to that would of course be 'well, I think that's fucking insane, but I acknowledge your belief in the giant invisible anus and its shit piranhas and if it keeps you being a kind, humble and helpful person, then PLEASE don't stop believing in the giant invisible anus in the sky and its shit piranhas' ".

So I, and others, need to apply that to real life and remember it sometimes.

On the other hand, I don't think ANYONE can defend any religions which either promote, permit or overlook bad happenings.


AHAHAHAHAAAA!!!! Giant anus and it's shit piranhas

(in reply to great_badir)
Post #: 223
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 5:28:03 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

At the end of the day religion is about belief and that is a personal thing.


That's spirituality. Religion is specifically not a personal thing, but something that is shared.


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Post #: 224
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 5:50:47 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Apparently there was a creationist school in Malta that offered incredible teachings like that the dinosaurs in the construction of the pyramids, it closed down because nobody went to get some teachings from there. How this closing was possible i don't know

< Message edited by Deviation -- 10/7/2012 5:52:59 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 225
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 5:59:48 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18243
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

At the end of the day religion is about belief and that is a personal thing.


That's spirituality. Religion is specifically not a personal thing, but something that is shared.



Shared with those of similar belief, however the range of different interpretations of a given religion (see internal strife in the Anglican Church, Catholicism, Islam etc.) shows that belief is indeed a personal experience and that just because someone believes something which is similar to themselves does not mean their belief is completely the same and a shared experience. Hence belief is personal.

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Nothing to see here.



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Post #: 226
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 6:21:07 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia


quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

At the end of the day religion is about belief and that is a personal thing.


That's spirituality. Religion is specifically not a personal thing, but something that is shared.



Shared with those of similar belief, however the range of different interpretations of a given religion (see internal strife in the Anglican Church, Catholicism, Islam etc.) shows that belief is indeed a personal experience and that just because someone believes something which is similar to themselves does not mean their belief is completely the same and a shared experience. Hence belief is personal.


Yeah, but that's just what you believe.




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Post #: 227
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 6:22:13 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
Just had a gander at that blood transfusion thread. Fuck me some of the posts on there are utterly bat-shit, I got to page 7 before realising it was 50 damn pages long and gave up although I'd frankly seen enough by that point anyway.

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Post #: 228
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 6:38:05 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Just had a gander at that blood transfusion thread. Fuck me some of the posts on there are utterly bat-shit, I got to page 7 before realising it was 50 damn pages long and gave up although I'd frankly seen enough by that point anyway.


You've angered shool, known enemy of film, prepare to face his wrath.

< Message edited by Deviation -- 10/7/2012 9:03:33 PM >


_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Spaldron)
Post #: 229
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 6:41:53 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Just had a gander at that blood transfusion thread. Fuck me some of the posts on there are utterly bat-shit, I got to page 7 before realising it was 50 damn pages long and gave up although I'd frankly seen enough by that point anyway.


It's no crazier than the UFO thread

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Post #: 230
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 6:43:34 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Just had a gander at that blood transfusion thread. Fuck me some of the posts on there are utterly bat-shit, I got to page 7 before realising it was 50 damn pages long and gave up although I'd frankly seen enough by that point anyway.


You;ve angered shool, known enemy of film, preapre to face his wrath.


Actually I think comments like that are why he isn't so keen to talk about this stuff anymore.

_____________________________

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Post #: 231
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 6:46:39 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8279
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Just had a gander at that blood transfusion thread. Fuck me some of the posts on there are utterly bat-shit, I got to page 7 before realising it was 50 damn pages long and gave up although I'd frankly seen enough by that point anyway.


It's no crazier than the UFO thread



(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 232
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 7:11:05 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12188
Joined: 30/9/2005
Is there anything left for him to say? The poor guy would just be repeating himself.

Anyone who's ever argued about anything on the internet knows it's got fuck all to do with filling people in or sharing insight, it's about beating your opponent into a broken, binary pulp

It's probably why religious threads always grow to such huge proportions, it's the ultimate online battle of attrition where no one wins, one side just gets more bored than the other.

< Message edited by Hood_Man -- 10/7/2012 7:12:13 PM >

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 233
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 10/7/2012 9:19:22 PM   
Lazarus munkey


Posts: 1650
Joined: 20/3/2006
From: out of nowhere

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

Is there anything left for him to say? The poor guy would just be repeating himself.

Anyone who's ever argued about anything on the internet knows it's got fuck all to do with filling people in or sharing insight, it's about beating your opponent into a broken, binary pulp

It's probably why religious threads always grow to such huge proportions, it's the ultimate online battle of attrition where no one wins, one side just gets more bored than the other.

Atheists Vs. Protestants
Whoever wins, we lose.

_____________________________

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Post #: 234
RE: Creationism vs Evolution - 11/7/2012 3:27:10 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12188
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lazarus munkey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

Is there anything left for him to say? The poor guy would just be repeating himself.

Anyone who's ever argued about anything on the internet knows it's got fuck all to do with filling people in or sharing insight, it's about beating your opponent into a broken, binary pulp

It's probably why religious threads always grow to such huge proportions, it's the ultimate online battle of attrition where no one wins, one side just gets more bored than the other.

Atheists Vs. Protestants
Whoever wins, we lose.

Pretty much

(in reply to Lazarus munkey)
Post #: 235
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