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Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 6:25:34 PM

Timon

Posts: 14548
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

I'm one of three brothers and growing up, we watched many a musical, simply because my mum is a huge fan of them.

Be it Doris Day films, Gene Kelly toe-tappers or the Rogers and Hammerstein classics, we pretty much watched them all growing up, to the point where we knew all the songs to Seven Brides for Seven Brothers off by heart. To be honest, it's still a huge surprise to the three of us that we're not all gay.

�

The one thing I've noticed over the years is the general derision that the hairier sex has towards musicals. This can be best seen currently in the reviews thread for Mamma Mia! with DanCurley generally slamming the film without even seeing it.

I just got back from seeing it myself and it was great fun, and i'm not even a huge Abba fan.

A friend of mine recently said that the thing about musicals is that normally "they're great films that are ruined by song and dance numbers."

This is also his (and many others, on this forum too) for why he refuses to watch Bollywood films.

He loves Disney films though. All of the classics.

�
I pointed out to him that these have song and dance numbers yet he doesn't mind them. He didn't have an answer for that.

So are Musicals only acceptable to men if done by teapots and jungle animals? Are they afraid of appearing girly? Do they simply not like the songs? If not why not? What the hell's wrong with 'Bless Her Beautiful Hide'?

I demand answers! Why do men fear the musical?

Do note I'm not expecting anyone here to like High School Musical, that's aimed a little lower than our ages. My cousins thought, love it!

< Message edited by Timon -- 13/9/2011 4:15:18 PM >

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Post #: 1

RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 6:28:47 PM

DanCurley

Posts: 1371
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: London

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon
The one thing I've noticed over the years is the general derision that the hairier sex has towards musicals. This can be best seen currently in the reviews thread for Mamma Mia! with DanCurley generally slamming the film without even seeing it.

LOL! I've never tucked into a No 2 either but I'd defo imagine it to be shit. I didn't say it was shit, I said it looks shit. Can't people do that?

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RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 6:31:45 PM

Timon

Posts: 14548
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanCurley

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon
The one thing I've noticed over the years is the general derision that the hairier sex has towards musicals. This can be best seen currently in the reviews thread for Mamma Mia! with DanCurley generally slamming the film without even seeing it.

LOL! I've never tucked into a No 2 either but I'd defo imagine it to be shit. I didn't say it was shit, I said it looks shit. Can't people do that?

Fast response sir! I salute you.

Of course you can, but I'm using you as the A-typical example of the male reaction to musicals.

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Post #: 3

RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 6:40:09 PM

foz

Posts: 3490
Joined: 1/10/2005

I enjoyed Happiness of the Katakuris. Does that count?

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Post #: 4

RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 6:45:45 PM

Neth

Posts: 4750
Joined: 3/10/2005

Nothing wrong with a musical, provided it's done right. South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut and On The Town are two of my favourite movies of all time, and they're both firmly within the genre. I enjoyed the shit out of Hairspray last summer, and I even have a sick love-hate relationship going on with Rent.

I draw the line at Mamma Mia though. I'd rather stick firecrackers in my ears than spend two hours in a dark room watching people sing Abba songs.

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RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 6:53:30 PM

DanCurley

Posts: 1371
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: London

Does The Jungle Book count as a musical? Loved that to bits.

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RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 6:55:43 PM

elab49

Posts: 52009
Joined: 1/10/2005

I think I'd probably want to differentiate between good musicals/films and bad ones.

My husband is also a fan of musicals - and good films, mainly. But if one is crap he isn't going to like it just because it is a musical. So if Mamma Mia is being slammed solely for being a musical, that is a bad thing. If it is being slammed for being a badly directed, soulless, cynical money maker? Different thing entirely.

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RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 7:04:35 PM

punchdrunk

Posts: 7817
Joined: 14/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neth
Nothing wrong with a musical, provided it's done right. South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut and On The Town are two of my favourite movies of all time, and they're both firmly within the genre. I enjoyed the shit out of Hairspray last summer, and I even have a sick love-hate relationship going on with Rent.

Those two are great "Rent" annoy in places, but it's heart is in the right place, because those two allow darkness to creep in , "Little Shop of Horrors" is pretty amazing, capturing the R&B of the 30's or 40's (?) cool puppetry by Frank OZ and Rick Moranis, Steve Martin and Bill Murray giving the greatest disturbing cameo ever as a masochist dental patient.

"Across the Universe" a recent addition had some great moments, but lacked the structure of a story to draw me in Eddie Izzards 'Mr Kite' was great and see my AV for the "happiness is a warm gun" highlight!

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Post #: 8

RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 7:19:42 PM

Neth

Posts: 4750
Joined: 3/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: punchdrunk

"Little Shop of Horrors" is pretty amazing, capturing the R&B of the 30's or 40's (?)

Probably closer to early-60s Motown and doo-woop, but yeah - great tunes, great movie.

Also, musicals don't always need to be happy-clappy affairs. I'd class Dancer in the Dark as a musical, and it's probably one of the bleakest films this decade.

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RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 7:28:26 PM

Rhubarb

Posts: 24405
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I love My Fair Lady.

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RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 7:31:00 PM

Stewie_Griffin

Posts: 6970
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: St.Albans, Hertfordshire

I'm not fearful of musicals because i like all kinds of movies including musicals. I don't think you can truly call yourself a film fan if you dismiss a film because it belongs to a certain genre. My favourite musical of all time is The Blue Brothers. Fantastic music and John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd were brilliant together. I also love Footlight Parade and Yankee Doodle Dandy is great but then i could watch anything with James Cagney in it. Mamma Mia isn't the classic example of the musical genre (It does have some all too apparent flaws) but i enjoyed it all the same and i came out of the cinema feeling all dewey and cuddly. It's a sweet natured film, It's quite endearing and it's nice to see a summer movie that doesn't involve men hitting each other. I don't see why you have to be gay or a woman to enjoy a movie like that, Seems pretty like a pretty ignorant viewpoint to me.

< Message edited by Stewie_Griffin -- 27/7/2008 7:39:58 PM >

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RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 7:57:06 PM

Stewie_Griffin

Posts: 6970
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: St.Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: foz

I enjoyed Happiness of the Katakuris. Does that count?

Guess so but it has very few song and dance routines if memory serves.

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RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 8:14:57 PM

Deviation

Posts: 26923
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

I think Moulin Rouge!(the Baz Lurhlam) shows the highs and lows of musicals. That film can be great and enjoyable and annoying and childlish in a matter of seconds.

On the other hand, most, almost all Disney films are musicals, and yet they are very well made, and most importantly, they are very very original. I also loved Burton's musicals, Sweeney Todd was a musical about a man who descended into madness, and I liked the songs(song about cannibalism, nuff said). Corpse Bride had forgettable music, which should be the death of a musical but as a whole the film I loved it.

Is 2001: A Space Odyssey a musical in someways? The movement to the music, for example, From the Earth to the Moon, celebrates technology. Later, with the different musical score, different tone, the film shuns it, and there is very little dialouge in it. Am I being thick?

I also love Dancer in the Dark, how the musical is a fantasy world wile the real world is silent in music and almost ugly. Then little sounds start coming together to at the end become a proper song, like this brilliant piece.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k72L2ZzfKT0

And I love Cabaret.

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RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 8:30:41 PM

punchdrunk

Posts: 7817
Joined: 14/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation
Is 2001: A Space Odyssey a musical in someways? The movement to the music, for example, From the Earth to the Moon, celebrates technology. Later, with the different musical score, different tone, the film shuns it, and there is very little dialouge in it. Am I being thick?

Closer to an Opera, I would think, Love the sounds of the ochestra warming up at the start and the interval.

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Post #: 14

RE: Men & Musicals - 27/7/2008 8:42:07 PM

sanchia

Posts: 16897
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

I find that if the musical has a strong story to it the music can in many ways enhance it. Gene Kelly especially has produced soe fine films such as Singing in the Rain which is quality and On the Town which isn's such a good film but still very enjoyable. I am don't have as much respect for the earlier musicals such as Top Hat which I really didn't like and those films fom when there was a more high pitched an operatic fashion to the music are plain awful.

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RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 1:34:24 PM

Timon

Posts: 14548
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanCurley

Does The Jungle Book count as a musical? Loved that to bits.

Of course it does.

By definition, a musical is a production littered with song and dance numbers which the Disney films are filled with.

But why are these accepted by manhood and yet if you try and suggest to your average guy that he should give An American In Paris or Guys And Dolls a watch, he looks at you as if you've just gone a bit 'ginger beer'.

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Post #: 16

RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 1:38:20 PM

Heskin Radiophonic

Posts: 851
Joined: 16/5/2007
From: The Drones Club

I don't have a problem with movie musicals. Anything that's been near the dreaded touch of Andrew Lloyd Webber deserves nuking from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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Post #: 17

RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 1:38:43 PM

pettsy

Posts: 5969
Joined: 30/9/2005

We were discussing musicals in my office not very long ago and I have to admit I started by saying I wasn't a big fan of the genre, apart from a few films. Then that few films became a dozen or so, and I retracted my original dismissal. I enjoyed Hairspray a lot as well.

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Post #: 18

RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 1:39:10 PM

Kazuya

Posts: 7953
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai

I hate musicals.

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RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 1:58:17 PM

Timon

Posts: 14548
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

I hate musicals.

ALL musicals? THE WHOLE GENRE? Even Disney films?

You know what you need, Kaz?

I thinks someone needs to watch Bugsy Malone

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Post #: 20

RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 2:04:08 PM

Kazuya

Posts: 7953
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

I hate musicals.

ALL musicals? THE WHOLE GENRE? Even Disney films?

You know what you need, Kaz?

I thinks someone needs to watch Bugsy Malone

No no, I love Disney films, although I tend to get an urge to use the fast forward button during songs

I haven't actually seen Bugsy Malone, isn't that the one with Jodie Foster?

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RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 2:19:16 PM

vader100

Posts: 2337
Joined: 30/9/2005

For me a musical lives and dies on it's musical merits. I hate ABBA with a passion so I am not going to enjoy Mama Mia (ABBA songs sung badly

). If the music is appealing to me then I may well enjoy it. Love South Park and Disney,also Blues Brothers. Another one that can go and hang is The Sound of Music.

In fact the only more "mainstream" musical I sort of enjoyed was Chicago but Catherine Zeta Jones may have had something to do with that

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RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 2:33:01 PM

Leeorami 2.0

Posts: 296
Joined: 11/10/2005

I think it's all down to the songs in the musical. There are not many that I like. As already mentioned above, Blues Brothers and Bugsy Malone are my favourites.

Look at High School Musical. I've not seen it myself, but looks shit to me. Just my opinon. However, a load of kids & teenagers love it because they like those type of songs, plus it stars people they can relate to. I remember getting bored stiff having to watch Tommy Steele films (annoying little man from what I remember) with my Mum & Nan when I was a kid.

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Post #: 23

RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 2:39:39 PM

krudler

Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005

I enjoyed Moulin Rouge and Sweeney Todd but for the most part i cant stand musicals

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RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 2:49:20 PM

Groovy Mule

Posts: 1089
Joined: 26/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

To be honest, it's still a huge surprise to the three of us that we're not all gay.

Firstly, why would watching musicals make you/have turned you gay?

On a more serious note, musicals work where the music works to propel the story forward, cover some of the exposition or to explore emotions not easily expressed through song. The recent film musicals have very much been a mixed bag on this front.

Moulin Rouge! is probably the best modern musical because it uses the music perfectly to capture emotion and tell you more about the character and the action didn't stop at the moment the songs start. Likewise, Chicago used the songs thematically as an imagination device which worked well. Compare that with the disaster that was The Phantom of the Opera, great on stage but every time the music starts in the film the action stops stone dead or Mamma Mia! where the songs are used simply to shoehorn in another Abba reference.

A well done musical will usually be a powerful film whereas a poorly done musical will fall completely flat and often, the director plays an enormous part in this.

The musicals I would recommend to any doubters are:
Moulin Rouge! - Although I recognise this is very much a love it or hate it film.
Chicago - The songs are used well as a device
Hairspray - I defy anyone not to enjoy this.
Enchanted - Not strictly a musical but the musical interludes work well as a device.
South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut - Extremely clever in the way it apes other musical styles.

and of the older films ...
Any Disney animation
West Side Story - In my opinion, probably the best combination of music, lyrics and dance.
Singin' in the Rain - Fantastic
Mary Poppins & The Sound of Music
Oliver!
Evita - Madonna is surprisingly good

I would avoid:
The Producers - Amazing on stage, terrible on film as the performances aren't dialled down enough for film
Mamma Mia! - Abba songs sung badly
The Phantom of the Opera - Again great on stage, directed terribly by Joel Schumacher sucking the life out of the film and frankly, Gerard Butler is not a good enough singer.

< Message edited by Groovy Mule -- 28/7/2008 2:58:02 PM >

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RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 2:56:28 PM

Timon

Posts: 14548
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Groovy Mule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

To be honest, it's still a huge surprise to the three of us that we're not all gay.

Firstly, why would watching musicals make you/have turned you gay?

I was poking fun at the stereotype of homosexual men being into Broadway shows.

...................that's all!

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Post #: 26

RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 3:42:28 PM

Swoz_MK

Posts: 2884
Joined: 18/10/2005

The best

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Post #: 27

RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 7:00:31 PM

Caster

Posts: 5608
Joined: 30/9/2005

"Alright gay..."

I can't say there are many I like but Buffy The Musical is a classic, I thought Sweeney Todd was ok (after 30 mins of wanting the cast to stop singing and just act, damnit!), Enchanted had just few enough songs not to annoy people, The first half of Phantom of the Opera is good...but otherwise I'm not that interested in the High School Musicals or The Producers of this world (I only watched the latter to see Uma Thurman in suspenders). Moulin Rouge made me want to rip my eyes out with blunt rusty spoons.

Swings and roundabouts really.

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RE: Men & Musicals - 28/7/2008 7:31:22 PM

Scruffybobby

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From: My House

I'm not a musical lover, but I'm not a hater either. To me it's just another genre - just as there are some amazing westerns and some bloody awful horrors there are musicals both brilliant and awful (Moulin Rouge! is a bit of both).

Music has always gone hand in hand with films whether it's score or songs on the soundtrack used to enhance the emotion of a scene. A musical is just the logical extension of that. The best musicals I think have songs which push the plot along or reveal a bit of someone's character.(Sweeney Todd) They can just be fun though. Which I suppose accounts for the popularity of Mamma Mia! although I suppose that could just as easily be achieved by staying home and putting on a an ABBA cd.

By the way what actually constitutes a musical? For some, films like The Commitments or Walk The Line are musicals because they have lots of singing in them, but I don't really see them as such. All of the songs are within the context of the story, They're performed on stage or in pubs or whatver because that's what the characters are doing. They're not bursting into song whilst out shopping with the accompionment of full (invisble) orchestra and dancers. That's what I think of as a "musical" - things set in a kind of alternate universe where that kind of thing is normal. Maybe that's what puts a lot of people off. If there's a logical reason for someone to sing, I think it's easier to accept.

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Post #: 29

RE: Men & Musicals - 29/7/2008 1:23:35 AM

Spengler

Posts: 2300
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Tamworth

I fucking LOVE musicals. Seriously, as a student of theatre and being raised on Disney films and having been in a few myself, I just can't get enough of them. And there have been a lot of really good film adaptations over the years - Chicago, Phantom of the Opera, Little Shop Of Horrors and Guys and Dolls to name but a few, even Grease is a classic within the genre, but people go on about it too much. But also, the less obvious musicals, like South Park, The Nightmare Before Christmas and Disney films like The Lion King.

I'm still waiting for someone to do a really good musical adaptation of Les Miserables though - my favourite musical. If I could choose? Ed Zwick. Without a shadow of a doubt.

Oh, but Mama Mia is a bridge too far. I fucking HATE Abba.

< Message edited by Spengler -- 29/7/2008 1:24:27 AM >

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