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The Prisoner - the remake

 
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The Prisoner - the remake - 1/7/2008 1:13:16 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
Not seeing it in the index so fingers crossed.

Main casting now announced - the previously rumoured McKellen as Number Two with Jim Cavaziel as Number Six. Not sure about that one - don't think I've seen him play anything other than pretty wet. Decent performance in Thin Red line but charisma? Not noticeable.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jun/30/itv.television

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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 1/7/2008 1:28:34 PM   
wombathog


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Let's hope it's more of a BSG than a Bionic Woman.

"I'M NOT A NUMBER, I'M JESUS!"

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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 1/7/2008 1:40:24 PM   
TomTron


Posts: 874
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I thought Christopher Nolan was doing a film remake of this, no?

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Post #: 3
RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 1/7/2008 1:42:50 PM   
elab49


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I thought that was just another wish fulfilment rumour, along with the Bale one?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 4
RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 1/7/2008 1:50:49 PM   
Ripper


Posts: 3256
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From: A Place Called Vertigo
quote:

ORIGINAL: wombathog

Let's hope it's more of a BSG than a Bionic Woman.

"I'M NOT A NUMBER, I'M JESUS!"


With a character called number 6 ....



Before anyone points it out, I know the 6 in prisoner was around before the hot cylon

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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 1/7/2008 9:27:32 PM   
Dirty Hartigan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wombathog

Let's hope it's more of a BSG than a Bionic Woman.



The original version of The Prisoner was (at least intended to be) a lot more serious than any version of The Bionic Woman.

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Post #: 6
RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 1/7/2008 9:49:05 PM   
Mason Verger


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They don't need to bother. There's already been a television series that was like a hybrid of The Prisoner and The Fugitive but was better than either called Nowhere Man.

"Nowhere Man" (1995)

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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 2/7/2008 12:53:50 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
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I don't recall being that impressed by the show - it was before Greenwood apparently learnt to act (he was so bad in St Elsewhere it is difficult to believe how improved he is these days!).

Still it is more than a decade - maybe I should give it another go.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 8
RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 2/7/2008 9:34:43 AM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mason Verger

They don't need to bother. There's already been a television series that was like a hybrid of The Prisoner and The Fugitive but was better than either called Nowhere Man.

"Nowhere Man" (1995)


I tried watching Nowhere Man quite recently.  There was a good set up I thought and I enjoyed the first ep, but then similar and increasingly incredulous things happened in the subsequent shows and I gave up after episode 5.  Would have been a great series imo if it only had to fill half a dozen eps, but with 20+ it drew a nice idea very, very thin.

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Post #: 9
RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 1/8/2008 12:59:00 PM   
nutteronabus


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Did somebody say 'viral?'

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RE: The Prisoner - 1/4/2009 1:12:44 PM   
Timon


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Post #: 11
RE: The Prisoner - 8/4/2009 3:35:20 PM   
Cruisecontroller


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLXshSkZiFs

The Prisonbear a Youtube spoof with toys of The Prisoner.

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Post #: 12
RE: The Prisoner - 8/4/2009 3:41:45 PM   
Olaf


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I was really excited about this for a minute, but then I saw ITV are producing it. Will still watch it though.

< Message edited by Olaf -- 8/4/2009 3:42:20 PM >


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RE: The Prisoner - 8/4/2009 4:06:02 PM   
Cruisecontroller


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Heres the link to the official website of the remake tv mini series being produced by AMC (who have done Mad Men) and yes I think ITV`s Granada.

http://www.amctv.com/originals/the-prisoner/

< Message edited by Cruisecontroller -- 8/4/2009 4:21:56 PM >


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RE: The Prisoner - 27/7/2009 2:53:40 PM   
Blunderbuss


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AMC have put a 9 minute (!) promo for their remake of The Prisoner online.  You can't access it from the UK directly but Darkhorizons have embedded a version on their site here

Looks suitably weird without being as out and out batshit strange as the original.  There's even a hint that it might all make some sense in the end...


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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 27/7/2009 2:57:33 PM   
richCie


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From: Wells, England

quote:

ORIGINAL: wombathog

Let's hope it's more of a BSG than a Bionic Woman.

"I'M NOT A NUMBER, I'M JESUS!"


ffs...another spoiler? this is the 2nd thread a spoiler for BSG has been given with no warning. the thread aint even about it!

can we stop now? least till i actually finish it?

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RE: The Prisoner - 27/7/2009 8:18:54 PM   
jobloffski

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blunderbuss

AMC have put a 9 minute (!) promo for their remake of The Prisoner online.  You can't access it from the UK directly but Darkhorizons have embedded a version on their site here

Looks suitably weird without being as out and out batshit strange as the original.  There's even a hint that it might all make some sense in the end...



In my opinion the original series already makes perfect sense:

You are number six (the prisoner) and number one (the jailer) and the snivelling primitive ape creature man has always been underneath. Nobody but you decides whether you are free, and nobody but you decides whether you are enslaved. Your inner ape lives in primitive fear of enslavement by a stronger alpha male and wishes to end resistence to its own peaceful way of life by defeating its enemies. But because the three aspects of humanity are contained in every person it will always be a struggle for an individual to assert himself, because he wants to be free, AND defeat his jailer. If he is both, he cannot win, and (as indicated by the caption at the end of the series finale) can still be a prisoner even if there is no actual prison around his physical form.

That is, to me, the meaning of the ending, along with: once Number Six has learned these things, he meets no resistence whatsoever when leaving the village. Rules only apply to those who will allow themselves to be ruled.

Prior to that, there is what may be a real, or a semi-nightmare version of the consequences of trying to break free of 'the system. Number six may or may not be rooted in the Danger Man lead character deciding to resign after becoming disillusioned with his work (the reason number 6 resigned is referred to obliquely towards the end, but whatever the literal reason, he resigned because he no longer wanted to be a part of something that sickened his soul). And the surreal aspects of the show took over completely by the end, because it is winning the battle with your own demons that decides what kind of a man you are, not the enemies you defeat from without. So the ending shows a version of 'passing judgement' on Number Six, but it is judgement upon himself, and his assertion 'I am not a number, I am a free man' wins the day. However...

Winning or losing is not really the point of number 6, it's all about not being broken. And if you can't be broken, you eventually defeat what is trying to break you by seeing it ever more clearly, as it gets more desperate to break you, and consequently knowing it better than it knows itself (knowledge is power, and once you understand exactly how 'the system' works, by perpetuating itself through bureaucracy with no one person in charge and lots of little people with a cog in the machine function and no actual power, even those of senior rank, nobody will ever have power over you, ever again).


Various kinds of resistence and rebellious behaviour are depicted by the original series, and even the derided 'it turns out to be a bedtime story' episode serves to highlight one of the oldest forms of rebellion: using stories as a way of ridiculing your supposed betters, while imagining yourself to be indestructible to anything they can do to you.

Ultimately, it's (to me) a series that plays with various depictions of how those who resist being 'normalised' by society can be treated by society, and how the core of individual humanity, the survival instinct can take anything, if it has decided nothing will break it. Sort of a spiritual sequel to 1984, but with an ending that to amounts to 'I've beaten you Big Brother, and all I had to do was decide I wasn't going to let you beat me, even if it cost me my mind or my life'.


Okay, maybe not everybody will agree that what I've said makes sense, but I don't care. On the subject of having my opinions reached for me by others, I've resigned


Incidentally, it may be several decades late to make this point, but resigning from something implies rejecting it and resigning yourself to something implies letting go of your free will and accepting whatever you fear to fight against. Man, they were motherfucking good at using the English, back in the day, what?.

Can any remake make a better stab at conveying what I believe the original conveyed? Not to me, because if I got the original, I don't really need to have it said to me again. But in the absence of a new version of 'the indestructible essence of the man whose will to resist cannot be broken' Number 6 represents, why shouldn't a man who played jesus play six in a new version?

If you're not religious, and even if you are, what Jesus can be said to represent is a character of the same kind as number six, not submitting to the system, no matter what is done to him.

The power of The Prisoner is in how non specific it is about what is going on, so that it becomes more meaningful to you if you ever find yourself in a position where you must stand up and say 'enough!'. And then you encounter everything 'the system' can do to break you.

If a remake can convey this in a powerful way and with a genuine understanding that number six is not a number, but a symbol for everybody who ever had any reason to resist something that would prefer them to shut up and obey like a good little soldier, and can tap into that part of viewers, why the hell not? If nothing else, anyone who digs it might get into the original.

Incidentally, Nolan has already done his number six archetype via Batman: 'People are dying Alfred, what would you have me do?'

'Endure...

Number six's goal in a single word was to endure, no matter what. So Nolan has no need to go there again, unless the remake is total balls and someone offers Nolan the chance to go into more nightmarishly adult psychological places with a Prisoner movie he couldn't go with The Batman. Failing that, there's always this guy right here, who had number six in his blood from the moment he was conceived (though, admittedly, it was the Embassy Number 6 my mother smoked pre and post coitally that caused that particular problem)


< Message edited by jobloffski -- 16/11/2009 10:17:52 AM >


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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 27/7/2009 10:36:56 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
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quote:

ORIGINAL: richCie


quote:

ORIGINAL: wombathog

Let's hope it's more of a BSG than a Bionic Woman.

"I'M NOT A NUMBER, I'M JESUS!"


ffs...another spoiler? this is the 2nd thread a spoiler for BSG has been given with no warning. the thread aint even about it!

can we stop now? least till i actually finish it?


There are no spoilers for any TV show in wombathog's post, richCie. Jim Cavaziel plays Number 6 who's catchphrase was, 'I am not a number, I am a man!' (or something like that) and he also played Jesus once.......

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 27/7/2009 10:40:21 PM >


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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 28/7/2009 7:30:44 AM   
wombathog


Posts: 604
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: a world full of wonder
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: richCie


quote:

ORIGINAL: wombathog

Let's hope it's more of a BSG than a Bionic Woman.

"I'M NOT A NUMBER, I'M JESUS!"


ffs...another spoiler? this is the 2nd thread a spoiler for BSG has been given with no warning. the thread aint even about it!

can we stop now? least till i actually finish it?


There are no spoilers for any TV show in wombathog's post, richCie. Jim Cavaziel plays Number 6 who's catchphrase was, 'I am not a number, I am a man!' (or something like that) and he also played Jesus once.......


Thanks for that Shifty.
I was a bit confused myself as I've only seen the first 2 seasons of BSG.

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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 28/7/2009 11:02:47 AM   
richCie


Posts: 4028
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: Wells, England
quote:

ORIGINAL: wombathog

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: richCie


quote:

ORIGINAL: wombathog

Let's hope it's more of a BSG than a Bionic Woman.

"I'M NOT A NUMBER, I'M JESUS!"


ffs...another spoiler? this is the 2nd thread a spoiler for BSG has been given with no warning. the thread aint even about it!

can we stop now? least till i actually finish it?


There are no spoilers for any TV show in wombathog's post, richCie. Jim Cavaziel plays Number 6 who's catchphrase was, 'I am not a number, I am a man!' (or something like that) and he also played Jesus once.......


Thanks for that Shifty.
I was a bit confused myself as I've only seen the first 2 seasons of BSG.


ahh its cos the cylons are known by numbers...and then Gauis Baltar well EDIT: deleted spoilers.

but yeh...you were on about sumin else so sorry!

and someone did give a fairly big spoiler in another non BSG thread.


< Message edited by richCie -- 28/7/2009 3:38:10 PM >


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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 28/7/2009 11:41:11 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
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Given that Richcie, I don't really think you needed to add specific detail on BSG to this thread, spoiler tagged or not.

If you've not seen the original Prisoner (currently showing on ITV 4) you could look out the Simpsons take on it



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 21
RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 28/7/2009 3:38:37 PM   
richCie


Posts: 4028
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From: Wells, England

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Given that Richcie, I don't really think you needed to add specific detail on BSG to this thread, spoiler tagged or not.

If you've not seen the original Prisoner (currently showing on ITV 4) you could look out the Simpsons take on it




i was trying to explain how i made my mistake but ive deleted it now anyway.

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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 9/10/2009 12:13:38 AM   
Judgey

 

Posts: 2
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Some thanks here people.

First - thanks to elab49 for pointing me in the direction of this thread from my original thread. I don't know how to/don't trust the searches on the Empire Forums though so I have got to this thread through LAZINESS. Thanks though.

Second - Thanks to nutteronabus for the viral link. I'm suitably intrigued.

Third - Timon. Nice picture. Ta.

Fourth - Cruisecontroller. I'll spend the rest of my evening on that site.

Fifth - Blunderbuss for the DarkHorizons promo. I'll be watching that now thankyouverymuch.

Sixth - Jobloffski for the wonderful post about the meaning of The Prisoner/Identity/Society etc. Jobloffski, it is a distinct possibility that you are I and I am you which would make sense at least in the context of the show. Very interesting reading.


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Post #: 23
RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 13/11/2009 6:34:29 PM   
Captain Black


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Almost forgot about this (odd scheduling from AMC) - it starts this Sunday, and is on for two hours each on three consecutive nights. A rare instance of an American remake designed to be shorter than its UK progenitor, it seems.

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Post #: 24
RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 13/11/2009 6:42:55 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

McGoohan said: "I thought the concept of the thing would sustain for only seven, but then Lew Grade wanted to make his sale to CBS, I believe, and he said he couldn't make a deal unless he had more, and he wanted 26, and I couldn't conceive of 26 stories, because it would be spreading it very thin, but we did manage, over a weekend, with my writers, to cook up ten more outlines, and eventually we did 17, but it should be seven


Maybe they read this? It is one of the reasons, for me, Prisoner isn't higher up my personal list.

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ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 25
RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 13/11/2009 6:47:33 PM   
Captain Black


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Perhaps - and fair play to them if it's true; I can imagine if a regular US network fancied having a go at the same thing they'd apply their typical model of 22 episode seasons each year and we'd end up with something akin to their Life on Mars remake.

Edit: I'm just browsing a few reviews. Not great to be honest. A bit vague, directionless and the payoff not being worth the investment seem to be the main criticisms.


< Message edited by Captain Black -- 13/11/2009 6:54:48 PM >


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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 15/11/2009 6:39:28 PM   
Fit Kisto

 

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Doesn't look good, not download worthy anyway. Best to wait until they show it over here and see what the first episode is like.


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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 16/11/2009 8:00:29 PM   
Monkeyshaver

 

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SPOILERS

Saw the opening two episodes, the short response, not very good.

There were bound to be differences, but the fundamental flaw is that it fails to capture the spirit of the original. We have a hero trapped in a mysterious Village beset upon by the similarly mysterious No2 but there is nothing really interesting at stake apart from the usual mix of clichés poorly dressed up as something new. The show doesn’t have anything interesting to say, no subtext about society etc that made the original so engaging & still relevant today which kind of makes this remake pointless. It fails to live up to the legacy of the original – which was extremely influential on tv but only relatively recently is this being fully felt with the likes of Lost etc – & fails to work as a suspenseful drama in its own right. There are nods to the original such as “Be Seeing You”, the map scene is recreated, Rover is around & as things begin our new 6 encounters an old man dressed in the original shows clothes who is being hunted & promptly pops his clogs. This character is known as 93 & when 6 has a look at this guys house there’s some 60s decor & it does resemble the original characters house a little bit, as well as a later revelation that he drew a picture of Big Ben. So maybe they’re hinting that 93 was the original 6? (9 – 3 = 6) But this only reinforces how dull the whole thing is. This is down to the leaden direction which drains what little suspense the show has.

The Village has initially got an interesting new look with triangular dwellings but apart from that & its desert location (you’ll see a LOT of desert in this show!) things look pretty boringly designed. & this carries on through to the plot, our hero is not a spy but works for some shadowy security/ surveillance company as explained in awkward flashbacks to New York which according to No2 doesn’t exist. & that’s what it all seems to be about, the only world that exists is The Village despite some people having dreams of a world outside, & the battle between 2 & 6 is as to whether all this is real or not. Not exactly a great drive for the plot compared to the original nor is the extremely lazy plot device of our hero suffering from amnesia!

As for the hero? In the original McGhoohan created an eternally defiant uncrushable rebellious individual who would “not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered”, but here we’ve got a rather wet underdog who seems to moan a lot rather than make escape attempts, reactive rather than proactive, James Caviezel is a good actor but wasted in this. There are a few supporting characters of no importance, the obligatory female love interest, a cab driver, 6’s ‘brother’ & his family but none really leave a mark. In fact the most interesting character is No2, Ian McKellen captures the feel of the original & his character has a mysterious home life with a bedridden wife & slightly rebellious son, who may end up siding with 6? But this focus on family for 2 & 6 is another example of how it differs from the original which seemed to focus on the individual with family devoid from the equation.

There are a couple of moments where interest does pick up, an interrogation scene with a pair of psychologists which ends with No2 coming in for a brief analysis & the mysterious Twin Towers glimpsed on the horizon & seeming to have something or other to do with things. But overall this is not going to be as influential or remembered as the original, devoid of intelligence its just another in a long line of American high concept shows that fails to live up to the hype.

Despite my negative reaction to the show, inevitable really considering I’m a big fan of the original, I night watch the remaining episodes. It’s only a 6 part miniseries which is something positive I suppose considering American telly’s desire to stretch out shows for years beyond the limits of the concept. I also do want to see what they do with the finale, despite setting up a mystery I doubt whether it will be anything like as daring as the original & everything will probably be neatly drawn to a climax. There is a hint of Truman Show about this version so will not be surprised if that plays a part somehow.

Oh well, there's some interesting stuff here for fans of the original about comic book versions of the show including the legendary Jack Kirby's attempt!
www.mister8.com/the-illustrated-prisoner
(Kirby's style really suits The Prisoner)



< Message edited by Monkeyshaver -- 16/11/2009 8:09:32 PM >


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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 21/11/2009 11:27:09 PM   
Monkeyshaver

 

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From: La Planete Des Singe
Did anyone watch all of it?!?

Anywho, I saw this online, rare interview with Pat McGoohan, The Prisoner Puzzle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6gPztzkNMQ



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Monkeyshaver is currently watching Doctor Who on the office TV.

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RE: The Prisoner - the remake - 5/2/2010 1:11:08 AM   
Monkeyshaver

 

Posts: 4734
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: La Planete Des Singe
Well, I saw it all. What a horrible horrible 'reimagining' that totally misses the point of the original :(

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Monkeyshaver is currently watching Doctor Who on the office TV.

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