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RE: No central contract for Pietersen!

 
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RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 16/9/2012 7:57:36 PM   
The Lensman


Posts: 1731
Joined: 15/3/2007
Very well Fella thanks. Got married this year hence why I haven't been around here much apart from the odd moan in the Liverpool thread.

But yeah just started up again to catch the last 5/6 games of the Moseley season. Did quite well with ball and when allowed to bat did OK. But looking forward to a winter season in the nets and indoor competitions.

I've been with Troughton and Woakes too. But it just shows the strength in depth currently in the England squad that the selection pool is deep!

Giles I feel in 2015 would be a very good fit for the England team but what I would like to see from the bears would be a few more youth team players coming through the bears academy.

All well on your side?

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4351
RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 16/9/2012 9:19:33 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Lensman

Very well Fella thanks. Got married this year hence why I haven't been around here much apart from the odd moan in the Liverpool thread.

But yeah just started up again to catch the last 5/6 games of the Moseley season. Did quite well with ball and when allowed to bat did OK. But looking forward to a winter season in the nets and indoor competitions.

I've been with Troughton and Woakes too. But it just shows the strength in depth currently in the England squad that the selection pool is deep!

Giles I feel in 2015 would be a very good fit for the England team but what I would like to see from the bears would be a few more youth team players coming through the bears academy.

All well on your side?


Well that I did not know! Congratulations to you and best wishes for the future!

Unfortunately I haven't been able to play any cricket really this summer due to work commitments, hopefully I can change things next summer and there's no real winter competitions around to take part in either. I'm thinking about looking at doing some coaching next summer and have been enquiring about the early stages of the process but round here no-one seems that interested. It's all football and rugby with other sports like cricket a very, very, very distant third.

The depth in the England set-up, especially along with the fantastic work of the EPP, is key to future success at international level. What do you think about Boyd Rankin's decision to end ties with Ireland after the impending World T20 to take up "residence" with England? I expect George Dockrell to do the same before or after the 2015 World Cup.

Giles is the natural fit for the England hotseat and no doubt he will win many fans votes, but England have not always been conventional (the last real romantic appointment was David Lloyd and he didn't last very long at all) and with the history of Fletcher, Moores and Flower I could see England heading in a more unexpected direction which is why Saker is my personal favourite but Giles and Halsall will be strong favourites with the media and the cricket supporters.




_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


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Post #: 4352
RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 17/9/2012 6:10:57 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Wonderful news....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/19623096

He'd be an excellent addition to a top order that could always do with improving and for such a young player he has a very intelligent head on his shoulders and has already captained Surrey to both a promotion to Division One and a one-day trophy in the CB40. His decision to leave Surrey has come as both a surprise and not given the tragic circumstances that befell the county earlier in the season with the sad death of Tom Maynard who was RHB's best friend and housemate and clearly he needs a fresh start elsewhere. Obviously it's very early days in the talks but if we could land him he'll be welcomed with open arms and would be a very exciting signing to look forward to watching next season.

Good start for England today with a World T20 warm-up win over Australia in Colombo. 172-6 posted off 20 overs with Alex Hales smashing 52 off 38 balls and Luke Wright contributing 35 off 29 and Eoin Morgan 30 off 16 as England racked up an imposing target for the chasing Australians who despite Mike Hussey's unbeaten 71 could only made 163-6 off their 20 overs with Steven Finn posting the delight of a very rare maiden over in T20 cricket.

< Message edited by Goodfella -- 17/9/2012 6:11:36 PM >


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4353
RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 18/9/2012 4:34:21 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
The test squad for the tour to India, which starts mid-November, has been announced today with Kevin Pietersen again left out and two new additions in batsmen Joe Root and Nick Compton.

Yorkshire opener Root, who is just 21, comes in in place of retired captain Andrew Strauss whilst Somerset number three Compton, who finished this D1 season just gone with an average of almost 100, comes in for James Taylor who is included in the England Performance Programme squad, but not the touring party.

Root is one of the most exciting young players in the game and has been a vital part of a very successful summer for Yorkshire in all formats of the game, averaging 42 in the four-day game with two hundreds to his name this year. He's been a part of the EPP programme and the England Lions for the past 18 months whilst Compton, 29 and the grandson of England legend Dennis, has been one of the most consistent run-scorers in the English game over the past 24 months, he averaged 63 the season before last and has amassed over 2,500 runs in his last 32 Somerset matches. He's been the quickest to 1,000 county runs in a season for the last two years running and along with Trescothick he's been the backbone of our top order for sometime now.

I have to be honest, whilst I'm happy to see England making a bold move in the direction of selecting another young and aspiring player in Root he has spent the past summer facing D2 county bowlers and this will be his first international appearance on the slow, low turning wickets of India but then again I said the same of Bairstow and after an indifferent start he went on to make 95 and 58 against one of, if not the, best bowling attack in the world in South Africa, he keeps his place in the squad as well. Eoin Morgan also returns to the test squad as do Monty Panesar and Samit Patel as England look to keep the spin options open for the sub-continent:

England Test squad for India: Alastair Cook (Essex, capt), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Tim Bresnan (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Nick Compton (Somerset), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Graham Onions (Durham), Eoin Morgan (Middlesex), Monty Panesar (Sussex), Samit Patel (Nottinghamshire), Matt Prior (Sussex, wk), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Graeme Swann (Nottinghamshire), Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire).

England Performance Programme squad: Jos Buttler (Somerset), Gary Ballance (Yorkshire), Scott Borthwick (Durham), Danny Briggs (Hampshire), Varun Chopra (Warwickshire), Matthew Coles (Kent), Jade Dernbach (Surrey), Ben Foakes (Essex), James Harris (Glamorgan), Simon Kerrigan (Lancashire), Craig Kieswetter (Somerset), Stuart Meaker (Surrey), Azeem Rafiq (Yorkshire), Toby Roland-Jones (Middlesex), Ben Stokes (Durham), James Taylor (Leicestershire), Chris Wright (Warwickshire).

Pietersen has not been able to resist the temptation post the announcement of the squad to voice his "disappointment" at not being included. Discussions remain ongoing between Pietersen and the ECB but it remains clear that issues are far from resolved and Pietersen's decision to issue yet another press release through his management company is unlikely to be met with much more warmth than any of the others especially with the contradictory statement that his recent silence is not an admission of any wrong-doing but he is happy to say he has apologised to both the ECB and Andrew Strauss over the text messages he sent, and has also met with new test captain Alastair Cook and head coach Andy Flower. I do not envision Pietersen playing any cricket for England before New Zealand tour here next summer, whatever the overall outcome I do not expect Pietersen to play any international cricket this winter.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4354
World Twenty20 - 20/9/2012 1:32:53 PM   
impqueen


Posts: 7474
Joined: 24/7/2006
I've stopped reading or listening to anything concerning KP and England.



So the World Twenty20 anyone?
England were poor with the bat but the bowlers were superb during the warm up against Pakistan.

England play Afghanistan tomorrow.
Anyone catch/listen to Afghanistan vs India? That was some entertaining stuff.



Zimbabwe are getting hammered by South Africa.

< Message edited by impqueen -- 20/9/2012 5:44:10 PM >


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Post #: 4355
RE: World Twenty20 - 20/9/2012 9:09:11 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
quote:

I've stopped reading or listening to anything concerning KP and England.


Well that should make anything regarding cricket, outside of the World T20, difficult to follow or read about it since that's all they're bloody talking about!

quote:

So the World Twenty20 anyone?
England were poor with the bat but the bowlers were superb during the warm up against Pakistan.


Warm-ups mean so very little. They're an opportunity for the players to get away from the nets, supposedly acclimatise and flex their muscles a bit before the real stuff gets under-way. England have spent almost half their year so far in the sub-continent and I would expect them to know the conditions by know, this is T20, this is about getting bat on ball, manouvering fields, rotating the strike and being able to hit long and big, it's about 70% physical strength and 30% quick thinking with the bat, with the ball it's a much harder game and just six off an over is a very credible effort for any bowler at international level, England need to play to their strengths and not worry about their weaknesses (in T20 you are going to leak at some point, accept that and move on), spin is prevalent in a country like Sri Lanka but Steven Finn's strike bowling and Dernbach's yorkers, slower balls and legbreaks at the back-end of an innings could prove absolutely crucial in winning a match. Test cricket can change in a session of 30+ overs, 50-over cricket can change in the first or last 10 and T20 can change in a matter of balls, that's what it's all about, striking when it matters and carrying that momentum on. England have been getting better at that lately, their success in test cricket has inspired them, when we won two years back in the Caribbean it was exactly that stance that got us there, in the final Craig Kieswetter ran Michael Lumb out early on but then seized the moment and went after everything, he took risks and they paid off. This game has a dangling edge of luck attached to it and you never know which side of the fence that is going to fall on. England's biggest enemy with the bat is their collapsing and the confidence that goes with it, that has and still is to an extent England's only real problem within all international cricket that is stopping them being the very best.

quote:

England play Afghanistan tomorrow.
Anyone catch/listen to Afghanistan vs India? That was some entertaining stuff.


Yep, I watched it, good game wasn't it? Virat Kohli is such an exciting young batsman, can't wait to see more of him from November onwards in the test environment, I genuinely say that I think he's going to be the best batsman in the world in the next five years. He goes from strength to strength every time I see him bat and he's in the runs right at the moment which makes India a very strong force at this competition, they'd absolutely love to top off a very disappointing, frustrating and sad 18 months with this trophy and Kohli's top-order dominance can certainly guide them there, he takes games away from the opposition. He's gone from being a rather nervous young player who didn't quite know where his feet where to a structured batsman with a great eye for the ball and unflinching timing and precision with his bat, he's in the Tendulkar, Sehwag and Gambhir ilk in that respect rather than the out-and-out big-hitting of the likes of McCullum and Pietersen who have so excelled in world T20.

It'll be interesting to see how much gas MS Dhoni has still got left in the tank as skipper of all formats after this tournament. I'm looking forward to watch Sunil Narine as well, I'm highly cynical as to how he won ICC Emerging Cricketer Of The Year 2012, his legspin looks very straighforward to me, it seems he relies heavily on batsmen not picking length (England?) and he has fingers like Panesar so he does get plenty of revolutions on the ball but I haven't seen any of this "mystery spin" he can supposedly create and he struggles outside of his own favourable conditions. Let's see what the kid's got when the pressure's really turned up.

quote:

Zimbabwe are getting hammered by South Africa.


Hate to say it but I agree with Dominic Cork, Zimbabwe should go back to having to qualify for these tournaments. I know it's a backwards move and it's not in the ICC's best interests not to support a struggling nation (mind you, Pakistan?) but this is getting ridiculous now and Cork is absolutely right, Afghanistan and Ireland are both better teams and they had to qualify just to be out there right now in Sri Lanka. No-one will tour Zimbabwe whilst Mugabe is still in power (Bangladesh pulled out earlier in the year after their security forces advised their government to not allow them to tour) and they look so out of their depth at the moment even with experienced coaches like Graham Flowers and Alan Butcher. The ICC needs to help them out by allowing them to compete in the ICC World Cricket Leagues, get more experience of touring and other playing conditions, working, training and bonding together as a team rather than them playing once in a blue moon in some sort of romantic sos mission and getting absolutely creamed, which is what is happening to them at the moment, especially in one-day cricket. I'm sorry but they are also standing in the way of one of the emerging nations like Netherlands and Canada, who every day are improving on their cricket and the way it's run.

I'll be interested to see what Andy Flower has to say if he comments at all.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to impqueen)
Post #: 4356
RE: World Twenty20 - 21/9/2012 2:08:54 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Brendon McCullum, 123 from 58 balls, 11 fours, 7 sixes. It's his second international T20 ton (a feat Pietersen has never achieved once by the way) and the second fastest in history now behind Richard Levi's 117 for South Africa against McCullum's New Zealand earlier in the year. Breathtaking to say the least, McCullum has been one of the most consistent and entertaining performers in this format of the game and at the age of 33 he seems to be like the cliche about wine, he gets better with age. New Zealand are unlikely to go too far in this tournament as despite an impressive 191-3 they have laboured with the ball against Bangladesh and will need to be far more clinical if they reach the super eights but the more we see of McCullum, the better.

Kevin Pietersen has also tweeted he hopes to be back playing for England by the time they tour New Zealand in February. He said this whilst appearing for an unnamed television network in the sub-continent covering the World T20. Funny, I thought he wanted more time off to spend with his family....

< Message edited by Goodfella -- 21/9/2012 2:14:46 PM >


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4357
RE: World Twenty20 - 21/9/2012 2:54:11 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Afghanistan have won the toss and elected to field first. The two teams:

England: Craig Kieswetter (wk), Alex Hales, Luke Wright, Eoin Morgan, Jonny Bairstow, Jos Buttler, Samit Patel, Stuart Broad (capt), Graeme Swann, Steven Finn, Jade Dernbach.

Afghanistan: Mohammad Shahzad (wk), Nawroz Mangal (capt), Karim Sadiq, Asghar Stanikzai, Mohammad Nabi, Samiullah Shenwari, Shafiqullah, Gulbodin Naib, Izatullah Dawlatzai, Dawlat Zadran, Shapoor Zadran.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4358
RE: World Twenty20 - 21/9/2012 3:05:11 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
What an over! Kieswetter did not look at all comfortable there, Zadran kept it low and slow and then beat him with some lively bounce before the final delivery being a bit fuller and getting him playing on. That is a long way from the best start to a defence of a trophy. Wicket maiden, we won't see many of those in Sri Lanka and I doubt anyone would have had money on Afghanistan getting one of them.

The ball is really moving around though, unusual for a Sri Lankan wicket. Kieswetter can't have too many complaints but shouldn't be too downbeat, that is the element of luck to this format of the game and I'm sure he'll bounce back.

< Message edited by Goodfella -- 21/9/2012 3:07:25 PM >


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4359
RE: World Twenty20 - 21/9/2012 3:17:46 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
"Cum on England. We can't lose to the towle heads."

Tell me, where has English cricket found this cluster of wanker fans from?

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


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Post #: 4360
RE: World Twenty20 - 21/9/2012 3:27:09 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Swift and brutal recovery from England. From 0-1 off the first over to 43-1 off 5.3 overs, that is T20 for you right there, the game shifts so quickly. Wright looks in touch and very confident with 23 off 13, he's just hit a big six straight back over the head of Zadran, like I said he's been away perfecting this and he'll be a big player for England in this tournament. Afghanistan look quite nullified now, they've let their lengths go a bit and have been punished, especially on the offside. England will drive onto a very big score here if they continue to bat like this.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


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Post #: 4361
RE: World Twenty20 - 21/9/2012 3:41:49 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
That is quite an unlucky way to be dismissed but the coaches do need to have a word with Hales about how far he wanders down his crease during a run-up, he got run-out against South Africa due to being too far out of his crease, he almost went a few balls earlier when Wright had to send him back and now he has been run-out again after Wright sent one straight back down at his stumps.

70-2 now off 9.2 and with Morgan in, England are still in a very strong position.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


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Post #: 4362
RE: World Twenty20 - 21/9/2012 4:01:25 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
109-2 and the last five overs now, I don't expect England to go for broke but I think they will try and attack more, a couple of decent slower balls in that last over pegged us back a bit. I think if we lose another wicket Buttler may jump Bairstow in the batting order and come in. I feel that between 150 and 160 will be good enough against this Afghanistan team but it'd be nice to finish with a sizeable score.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4363
RE: World Twenty20 - 21/9/2012 4:02:45 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Scrap that, England have gone for broke. 20 off the last 4 balls, this could be fun!

< Message edited by Goodfella -- 21/9/2012 4:03:02 PM >


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4364
RE: World Twenty20 - 22/9/2012 1:58:27 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Dominant and defiant start from England, after navigating the first few tricky overs from a pumped-up Afghanistan we fired on all cylinders and it dissolved into a very one-sided victory. Unfortunately I had to leave for work at the end of our innings but am off Sunday for the second group match against India. We really went into cruise control with the bat though and exposed the gap in quality between ourselves and Afghanistan who helped us along the way with more weak fielding, credit to them though, the way they went about qualifying for this tournament and the energy and spirit they've shown, they can only get better with time and more experience.

Luke Wright's 99 not out was enthralling to say the least, fair dues to Bairstow for purposefully lobbing that one up into the air with a field set to save a single and then taking off past Wright to get him back on strike, there were two great cameos from himself and Buttler there and whilst the opposition will only get better from here it'll certainly knock back those Sky voters, 86% of them, who said this England team is "weaker" than the one that won the tournament in 2010. No-one in that team scored higher than 67 during a game.

We all know it's going to be much tougher, starting on Sunday but today was near-perfect and we've now set a benchmark of what we want to achieve during these games with both bat and ball. Personally I'm excited about the rest of this tournament, I think England have got a very good chance of retaining this trophy and I look around at the other nations and there isn't anyone we are not capable of beating, some of them, especially Australia and India, are on losing streaks against us and we are very effective at chipping away at confidences. South Africa and Sri Lanka are the other two to watch and I think we will end up facing one of them in the final.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


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Post #: 4365
RE: World Twenty20 - 23/9/2012 5:55:55 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8323
Joined: 31/7/2008
Humiliating.

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Post #: 4366
RE: World Twenty20 - 23/9/2012 6:07:19 PM   
impqueen


Posts: 7474
Joined: 24/7/2006
Nothing much else to say.

_____________________________

Yes, always.


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Post #: 4367
RE: World Twenty20 - 23/9/2012 6:13:43 PM   
The Lensman


Posts: 1731
Joined: 15/3/2007
What I struggle to understand is with Graham Swann, why aren't professional cricketers able to learn from and how to play some what better than what they have been for the last two years.

Mushy has been part of the England set up for a while I believe yet what use has that been?

Maybe England should learn from Pietersen, Morgan and Wright who have played in IPL that to conquer spin you need to get yourself in that very competition that WILL improve you as a cricketer regardless of your pocket getting heavier with rupees.

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Post #: 4368
RE: World Twenty20 - 23/9/2012 6:51:41 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
So what have we learnt from this afternoon then? England still can't play spin in the sub-continent, yes, that's about the top and bottom of it.

quote:

What I struggle to understand is with Graham Swann, why aren't professional cricketers able to learn from and how to play some what better than what they have been for the last two years.

Mushy has been part of the England set up for a while I believe yet what use has that been?

Maybe England should learn from Pietersen, Morgan and Wright who have played in IPL that to conquer spin you need to get yourself in that very competition that WILL improve you as a cricketer regardless of your pocket getting heavier with rupees.


And how did that benefit Morgan today? Again he, along with Kieswetter, Bairstow, Buttler and Bresnan didn't pick length. Kieswetter tried to hit one on the up and India sensed England's struggles with length and bounce and Dhoni ended up putting in two slips and a short leg, that's madness in T20, but Dhoni knew how to rattle England and it worked. I still firmly believe England's main problems in the sub-continent relate to confidence, and not issues directly related to spin bowling. How is it we can pick Sunil Narine off on a turning wicket over here two months before he wins ICC's Emerging Cricketer Of The Year yet arrive in the sub-continent and get skittled out for 80 against a pair of legspinners who have been decidedly average or just a bit above their entire careers? I can live with being taken apart by a Murali, a Warne or even an Ajmal but again this was distinctly simple bowling with a quiet method from India and with England playing right into their hands. I don't see how, with all the risks attached both on and off the field, the IPL is going to improve any of that, anyway England-qualified players are open to play in the first three to six weeks of the competition pending their international involvement, no-one is stopping them, it's just nobody wants them and I don't believe that's because "they're not good enough." That to me is because they're not marketable enough, players like Hales and Bairstow are not what the galacticos of Indian cricket are looking for, why do you think Paul Collingwood, the World T20-winning captain of England, spent so much time running the drinks for Rajasthan Royals?

England need the same approach to tours and competitions in the sub-continent as they did to breaking their long-time duck for the Ashes in Australia in 2010-11, somewhere else I believe they harboured a huge lack of confidence rather than all the pre-determined fears about not being able to bowl with the Kookabura ball or being able to bat long and hard on an intimidating surface like Brisbane. They need to go over there earlier and get acclimatized, not just to the conditions and the surfaces but to themselves and each other. Notice today England absolutely sweltered coming up against a better opposition, there was little communication and we missed a lot of singles that were there to be taken. We didn't rotate the strike and in the process after the powerplay overs we'd heaped the pressure on ourselves, they brought in the spinners, we half-heartedly went after it thinking we were already out of the game and didn't even get the basics right (i.e.) length and there we have it. I thought we bowled reasonably well, true we didn't take many wickets but we kept the strike rate down and we were patient, we knew we'd need to be, there weren't many poor deliveries and I think Broad was right to go without a spinner. It was a damp surface and we didn't know a lot about some of these Indian batsmen.

Mushy has been in the England set-up since 2008 I believe, he works hard on spin bowling with all the team in the nets but in English conditions there is only so much he can do. England would do themselves no harm to work, instead of an IPL window, a window for the coaches to take the England team away to the sub-continent on a training camp including matches against local sides, outside of the Future Tours Programme. I believe this would be far more beneficial than a few more of our batsmen getting 270,000 to smash medium-pacers out of the ground in a batsman-favoured, grossly over-glorified greedy and money-orientated cricketing take on football tournaments.

England have already qualified for the Super Eights stage of the tournament and will face one of Australia, West Indies or Ireland on Thursday.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to The Lensman)
Post #: 4369
RE: World Twenty20 - 23/9/2012 7:11:20 PM   
The Lensman


Posts: 1731
Joined: 15/3/2007
You answered it perfectly. Confidence comes from playing.

You are better from playing 6 weeks of cricket in sub continent conditions than be in the nets with Mushy as you describe. Get out of your comfort zones and play cricket regardless of wherever it is.

India is as dangerous as you make it to be, the Aussies have their own competition so they naturally wouldn't participate. But the South Africans go over.

Morgan has the pressure of his team mates inability to handle themselves.

I'm convinced even at my own level of cricket. The more you play the more you improve, and the more you play against better competition the better you will get. That's just human nature right?

Training camps are all well and good, but this is a different thing compared to match play.

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4370
RE: World Twenty20 - 23/9/2012 7:22:21 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Lensman

You answered it perfectly. Confidence comes from playing.

You are better from playing 6 weeks of cricket in sub continent conditions than be in the nets with Mushy as you describe. Get out of your comfort zones and play cricket regardless of wherever it is.

India is as dangerous as you make it to be, the Aussies have their own competition so they naturally wouldn't participate. But the South Africans go over.

Morgan has the pressure of his team mates inability to handle themselves.

I'm convinced even at my own level of cricket. The more you play the more you improve, and the more you play against better competition the better you will get. That's just human nature right?

Training camps are all well and good, but this is a different thing compared to match play.


The IPL clashes with the start of the domestic season over here, not to mention the first test of the summer which is already causing problems for New Zealand with regards to their tour here next year. The IPL is driven by advertising and broadcasting rights and merchandising. Some Australians do play in the IPL as well (take David Warner and David Hussey for example) and the county championship is already suffering enough because of the IPL, push it further away and watch England's international programme completely self-implode, just remember where England players start out (well most of them anyway!), want to go down the road of freelance born and bred IPL/T20 players then you are opening yourselves further up to a Pietersen mentality and that is a very dark and dangerous road your heading down. You're of Indian heritage am I correct Lensman? Surely you've noticed some of this over there with regards to test cricket?

I do agree the ICC and each national board's FTP need to work together to find a window for the IPL but first of all you've got to sort out all the greed and corruption involved first and take politics out of that side of the game, until then you'll be going round in circles for years. The whole way the Lalit Modi issue has been handled sums that up for me.

How were Australia such a successful side in the sub-continent for so many years then prior to the IPL?

As for your last point, today was England's 14th match in all formats of the game this year in the sub-continent? "The more you play the more, you improve." Yes, that's how it should work, so after this year and the way things have gone over there, just how much would a three-week stint in the IPL have improved that then?


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to The Lensman)
Post #: 4371
RE: World Twenty20 - 23/9/2012 7:49:22 PM   
The Lensman


Posts: 1731
Joined: 15/3/2007
You're ranging from three to six weeks. Let's just say its three at its minimum exposure level to a cricketer.

You will not be facing Graham Swann, Monty Panesar or Samit Patel in the nets. You will be facing local and national talent from India. Even if they would be average abroad they are damn sight better than the before a mentioned trio. Just for three weeks wouldn't they learn. Forget the money for a minute. Wouldn't a player in its environment learn to cope better if it hadn't been there.

I think the county game is doing alright with the talent you regularly mention in reviews and opinions on the game. They're even got no talent or something - you champion them so I will take it as the latter.

What difference does the IPL clashing with the start of the domestic season have? Internationals don't play domestic cricket.

Yep, indian. But what we have seen is a very good player in Virat Kolhi appear from IPL competitions, having that exposure got him into T20 squads and then ODIs and then Tests where has taken over from Dravid. Pujara, Raina, Ashwin, Aaron, Yudav are all players coming through.

India produced players from the T20s who have gone on to Tests. I know there has been issues with the performances as late, but that's a mixture of lots of success, lots of cricket and the retirement of quality players.

Should coaching and the quality behind it be questioned then?

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4372
RE: World Twenty20 - 23/9/2012 8:13:56 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
Why are we so shit against spin? This isn't even that great an Indian attack, Pakistan chased down 185 the other day and their batting line up isn't exactly world class - we made them look good with our terrible batting. What a humiliating result . A pattern has solidly emerged because none of the other top teams suffer as badly as we do.

I agree with Lensman - it would actually be better off sending off our players to the IPL every year for a couple of weeks. Having to hit out against spin surely forces you to learn how to play against it effectively because you are going on the attack. That said how many of the IPL teams would want our younger players like Bairstow, Hale etc.? They might not even get a game.

(in reply to The Lensman)
Post #: 4373
RE: World Twenty20 - 23/9/2012 8:22:25 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
quote:

You're ranging from three to six weeks. Let's just say its three at its minimum exposure level to a cricketer.


If they're bid and bought for. Seven England players were put up for auction this year and not bought, including Anderson, Swann and Broad. The ECB is already in partial agreement with you, there is a window for England players.

quote:

You will not be facing Graham Swann, Monty Panesar or Samit Patel in the nets. You will be facing local and national talent from India. Even if they would be average abroad they are damn sight better than the before a mentioned trio. Just for three weeks wouldn't they learn. Forget the money for a minute. Wouldn't a player in its environment learn to cope better if it hadn't been there.


Swann has stayed in the top ten ICC world rankings for two years now and Panesar was the third-leading wicket-taker of both teams during the tour to the UAE to face Pakistan, they are no easy morsels, we struggle to produce spinners in this country because of the conditions but we do have players like Rafiq and Dockrell in the domestic game that are really starting to get there. I'm not sure what they would learn that they don't already know, all the IPL I've watched is not in the same avenue as international cricket in the sub-continent, it is levelled much more towards entertainment than sporting purposes and is far more batsman-dominated, I certainly haven't seen any of the bowling in this year's IPL that I've seen in any T20is this year. I'm always going to struggle to forget the money, the IPL really worries me for the future of both our international and domestic game, I don't like the monster that it has bred in cricket, we are arguably masters of our own potential downfall as we founded Twenty20 but I do not trust the direction this is heading in.

quote:

I think the county game is doing alright with the talent you regularly mention in reviews and opinions on the game. They're even got no talent or something - you champion them so I will take it as the latter.


From the prospective of a county member and a stalwart fan, I love it and always enjoy the tradition and contest of the game but it is heaped with problems, both on the field and financially. There is some great talent out there but with the economy currently hanging over the 18 counties ready to come crashing down on top of one or two of them, the dwindling attendances, counties consumption of international status that often backfires (Old Trafford, Rose Bowl, Swalec) and the reliance on T20 money forcing counties to cut the contracts of young, improving players in favour of more Kolkak and overseas signings, things are far from dandy. Yes, I love my county cricket, but I always have and always will, I know the game is dying though, slowly or rapidly, it almost certainly is, and T20, especially the IPL, is playing it's part in that. It's a vicious circle with our domestic T20 competition.

quote:

What difference does the IPL clashing with the start of the domestic season have? Internationals don't play domestic cricket.


Yes they do, often in the first three weeks of that season. Anderson, Broad, Swann, Bell, Trott, Strauss and Bresnan all did this year, along with the players of today like Kieswetter, Hales, Buttler and Bairstow. That is a huge financial catchment area for the counties. I can testify to that, I've seen the figures for our home match revenue for four-day cricket this summer, our biggest gate by afar was the home match against Surrey a few weeks back. And guess who was playing for Surrey....

quote:

Yep, indian. But what we have seen is a very good player in Virat Kolhi appear from IPL competitions, having that exposure got him into T20 squads and then ODIs and then Tests where has taken over from Dravid. Pujara, Raina, Ashwin, Aaron, Yudav are all players coming through.


Damn, I'm glad you reminded me, I meant to mention him earlier. I think Virat Kohli is a sensational player, I feel a little giddy when I hear some saying he's going to surpass Tendulkar (perhaps not in centuries but his contribution altogether as an Indian batsman) but everytime I see him player and I've watched him as often as I can over the past few years he seems to be getting better and better. The way he stood up to the English pace today really impressed me, he's a wonderful timer of the ball and he's got a cover drive to die for, he's a very confident young man without arrogance or swagger (a lot like a young Tendulkar there) and I think we'll be talking about this lad in a few years to come as the best batsman in the world.

quote:

India produced players from the T20s who have gone on to Tests. I know there has been issues with the performances as late, but that's a mixture of lots of success, lots of cricket and the retirement of quality players.


I guess your theory, and for that matter England's, will be tested in a few months time that's for sure. I'm really looking forward to the series, I always relish England playing India as I consider it the historic kingpin of the game versus the modern kingpin of the game and the two sets of supporters are both wildly passionate but without the aggro you necessarily get with Australian or South African supporters. India are definitely in a period of transition, as for that matter, in many respects, so are England although not as much so.

quote:

Should coaching and the quality behind it be questioned then?


I'm finding it very difficult to question England's coaches at the moment, I think their all men of great knowledge and intelligence of the game, this is problem that England have suffered from since the late 1980s and I think England need to consider the same approach they did to taking on Australia a couple of years ago. There's still a lot of cricket left for all England sides to play in the sub-continent this year and plenty of time to improve and get better.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to The Lensman)
Post #: 4374
RE: World Twenty20 - 23/9/2012 8:28:43 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

Why are we so shit against spin? This isn't even that great an Indian attack, Pakistan chased down 185 the other day and their batting line up isn't exactly world class - we made them look good with our terrible batting. What a humiliating result . A pattern has solidly emerged because none of the other top teams suffer as badly as we do.

I agree with Lensman - it would actually be better off sending off our players to the IPL every year for a couple of weeks. Having to hit out against spin surely forces you to learn how to play against it effectively because you are going on the attack. That said how many of the IPL teams would want our younger players like Bairstow, Hale etc.? They might not even get a game.


Precisely my point, that wasn't a great Indian attack at all. It isn't the spin, or the revolutions on the ball, or the turn. It's the basics of the game and the confidence which is completely lacking with the years of being humiliated in the sub-continent, there was nothing especially special about India's bowling today just like there was nothing basically right about our batting.

The IPL is not as consumed with spin as you may think, that's the natural assumption that comes with thinking of India, and actually hitting out against spin is England's biggest weakness at the moment. Playing spin best is all about patience, rotating the strike and putting the bad ball away, what did England play again the most today against it? The pre-meditated sweep? Ring any bells? Nope, I don't see the IPL franchises picking up many of our younger players over the other options open to them, especially after this year's auction. Behind Kevin Pietersen, the next England qualified-player to have played the most IPL cricket is Dmitiri Mascharaenas. Remember him? Morgan and Collingwood have seen more time as 12th man than any of the action on the field.


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 4375
RE: World Twenty20 - 23/9/2012 8:30:05 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
Kohli's really come on since the Indians toured Australia - he wasn't amazing over there but he hit a century and was India best batsman. I think that instilled confidence in him which he's taken into his recent performances. Definately looks like the first really decent replacement for the golden oldies.

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4376
RE: World Twenty20 - 27/9/2012 10:25:01 PM   
The Lensman


Posts: 1731
Joined: 15/3/2007
Too much to do and not enough time.

Same old story. Making things far too difficult for ourselves.

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 4377
RE: World Twenty20 - 29/9/2012 1:34:23 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
I've been struck low with a virus over the last few days so I saw the highlights of the Windies game but with the NZ game on SS3 due to the Ryder Cup today I've been unable to watch that although it seems England are on course for the vital win. New Zealand making a below-par 148-6 with Finn collecting 3-16 and currently we're 60-2 with Wright unbeaten on 25 and Morgan also at the crease on 7, off 10 overs.

It will take monumental failure from England not to get to 149 now, the problems I felt ahead of Thursday were highlighted in the Windies first seven overs, especially when Broad targeted the Gayle wicket so publicly and then his bowlers dropped in half-trackers to the big man who glided his way to 54 whilst Johnson Charles circulated the ground for his 84.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to The Lensman)
Post #: 4378
RE: World Twenty20 - 30/9/2012 6:29:40 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
Australia are looking the best team at the moment with Watson on fire with both bat and ball. That said the nature of 20-20 means any of the top sides can beat each other on the day which is why it's so exciting.

South Africa once again fail in a tournament but amazingly have been handed a lifeline by Pakistan losing to India. India bowled superbly and Pakistan's brittle batting line up cracked as it is wont to do. It was great to see Kohli vs Ajmal as well with the Indian coming out on top, that said 129 is the type of score that takes the pressure completely off the batting team.

England still in it but you can't really see them retaining the trophy in Sri Lanka

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4379
RE: World Twenty20 - 2/10/2012 12:11:50 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17406
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Seven words - That'll teach you to drop Craig Kieswetter!

I am absolutely appalled at that call, yes I'm bias, but Kieswetter is one of England's best players of spin in the one-day formats and they needed his aggressive strokeplay today, especially in the early overs, you cannot dictate player selections on T20 averages, they're shots in the dark and simply don't equate to a player's ability the way they do in test and 50-over cricket. The decision to drop Craig today stinks, and it stinks of a mixture of imbodied faltering England selection and fan pressure. The opinions I've read on social media really infuriate me, especially the ones calling for Kieswetter to be dropped from the gloves for Bairstow, because "Kieswetter isn't English anyway" and then in the same post they parade getting Pietersen back because "he's the best thing about English cricket." Have a fucking day off, or better still, go back to football.

I'm not saying we would have necessarily fared any better with Kieswetter in the team today but we certainly would have stood a chance, Luke Wright has been batting so well at number three and moving him up the order was always a huge risk and one today that completely backfired, I would have much more fancied the chances of Kieswetter digging out singles against Malinga and Wright attacking the middle-over spin than the other way around or not at all. As for the rest of England's performance, it is what it has been all year (since before Pietersen was dropped as well), an inconsistent bundle of occasional momentum but mainly a complete lack of self-control, tactical nous and confidence. Things that do not get restored by putting a player back into the team who thinks he's bigger and better than everyone else around him, and deserves different and more because of that.

As for the impending decision to restore Pietersen to the England team for the tour to India, I am disgusted, embarrassed and downright furious with the ECB. They should have stuck to their guns, followed through on their bottle for once and buried this man in the hole he dug himself. Instead they've succumbed, they've been seduced, just like they were by guys like Allen Stanford. Mark my fucking words, this will end in tears. Yes, you may get two or three years of the wonderful 'KP' centuries but this will happen again, just like it did last time, and when it does it will have consequences so severe on the England set-up they will trigger effects for years to come. And when it does I will be amongst others who will call all those out who so avidly supported him through this absolute mess. This isn't what cricket is about, full stop.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 4380
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