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RE: Cricket - 28/8/2012 12:35:04 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Rain effectively ended our season today as the CB40 match with Surrey was a washout and we haven't been able to qualify for the semi-finals. With a run of nine draws in the county championship we are out of the running there too so tomorrow at Taunton will just be the opportunity to bask in one of the last few days of sunshine this summer has to offer whilst giving Pietersen a hard time.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4321
Strauss to resign as England captain! - 29/8/2012 11:40:27 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/19407237

I have been saying since the tour to the UAE that there is a very good chance that Strauss would not be in charge for the tour to India in November. Brief glimpses of a fightback from the opening batsman and world-topping skipper came against the West Indies but they were deflated by his struggles both with the willow and tactically against a dominant and dictating South Africa in the recent series and England's severe struggles in 2012 have compounded down on the man at the top, his own personal struggles with form only making matters worse (Smith survived the inquests into his South Africa test captaincy because he was averaging 48 with the bat at the time) and now it looks like the ECB press conference, scheduled to start at midday, will announce both his resignation of the test captaincy and, most likely, his retirement from international cricket.

Much to say about Straussy but I'd rather wait until the news is officially confirmed to talk about him and his services to England. If it is the case though, he will be the third consecutive England test captain to resign after a series defeat to South Africa, following Michael Vaughan in 2008 and Michael Atherton in 2004. He is almost certainly to be replaced by one-day captain Alastair Cook (although that announcement probably won't be made for at least a few weeks, there's no need to add more attention to his current ODI captaincy with the crunch series against South Africa and it'll be a decision made out of respect for Strauss) and I have a hint of suspicion that Cook will resign the ODI captaincy before the winter, be replaced by Stuart Broad and in the T20s I think Broad will either retain the captaincy or Eoin Morgan will replace him but that's just early, personal opinion.

I was at Taunton yesterday to watch Pietersen make his 163 and boss a rare sunny day in the past week down here. I'm not going to write home about it though, the man's still an utter prick and just because he's scored three championship hundreds in three championship appearances this season changes nothing, he should still never be picked again for England. He walked to the crease with a swagger yesterday, he batted with arrogance and he enjoyed the best wicket in the country to make a timely ton, true he absolutely thrived and was a cut above the rest (without his 163, Surrey would have been 151-9 with the closest batsman, Zander De Bruyn, making the next highest score of 34) but against the bowling we produced yesterday in large spells and the conditions and batting down the slope, he was always going to exploit. He cut anything short, stepped down the crease and pulled medium pace through midwicket and hooked more times into the Somerset stand than I care to remember! I was behind the wicket so, unlike previous international stars Chanderpaul, Smith and Hussey, didn't have to employ the duck and cover method to avoid being hit by a six. To be honest if he'd had more partners he'd have got more runs, there was easily 250 for him there but he flashed a late outside edge to Mahmood and departed on 163. Mahmood may well have taken four wickets on debut was fairly terrible all day (christ knows why we've signed him on loan with just two championship matches remaining, another questionable decision by Rosie this season), bowling a lot down the legside with a four-man slip cordon in, predictable bouncers pulled and hooked away and straight balls back of a length, Thomas was short and expensive again (he'll be gone at the end of the season especially if he decides to go and play the full IPL season) and Trego's medium pace with nip and bounce only revved with the new ball, then it was easy to pick runs off him. Kirby and Dockrell, who have improved all season, worked very hard and were by far the best but a bowling attack with multiple injuries and on the wicket that is the flat bed of Taunton, it was always going to be a field day (literally) for Pietersen's Surrey. Mind you to sum the man up and how much he thinks of himself, he didn't come out and field for the last 14 overs of the day as he took a bit of knock on his thumb and wanted a shower after his innings with the bat, so they sent Tim Linley out instead. "Go in as a team, come out as a team." He sat in the CA pavilion with a mug of tea and a bacon torpedo for the next hour and a bit watching his team-mates do a fantastic job of pegging us back two wickets as Suppiah (who will also be gone at the end of the summer) played late to a straight one and Meaker's pace forced Tresco into a mistimed hook that was easily caught by the bowler.

As for England, well they were just so below-par it was never going to be anything else was it? They looked under-confident, ragged, wasteful and dis-interested. I see a lot of criticism has dropped on Kieswetter's shoulders, yes he should never have dropped those two chances from Amla, but it seems there are some who are so keen to get him out of the team and I still think he's one of England's most-improved one-day players. His glovework is usually excellent (look at some of the catches he has taken over the past year and his swiftness and feet behind the stumps to the slower bowlers, he's whipping the bails off quicker than ever) and his batting is really getting there, he's far more comfortable at six and even though he only managed 20 yesterday he was out to an unlucky shot and was steadying himself and playing very well up until that point, he didn't let his mistakes in the field dictate what he was going to do with the bat and whilst I want to see the likes of Woakes, Taylor, Bairstow and Buttler in the England team at some stage soon, I hope it's not at the expense of Kieswetter.

The batting was fairly woeful again, Cook may knock Kieswetter but beaten by the fuller pace of Lonwabo Tsotsobe first ball is something else we can all start scrutinising if he likes. Bell and Trott fought back for a while but at a strike rate of 64 Trott and England were always well behind the run-rate and the impressive Dean Elgar took a wonderful catch running backwards to get rid of him, Bell soon followed with his standard dismissal playing around a straight one from Robin Peterson. The rest collapsed and I still think England's one-day team are a batsman short when they play both Anderson and Finn.

< Message edited by Goodfella -- 29/8/2012 11:51:16 AM >


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4322
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 29/8/2012 12:03:27 PM   
impqueen


Posts: 7474
Joined: 24/7/2006
Andrew Strauss retires from all forms of cricket.

_____________________________

Yes, always.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4323
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 29/8/2012 12:46:14 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4259
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: impqueen

Andrew Strauss retires from all forms of cricket.


My cricket knowledge is very little but whenever I've seen Strauss talk to the press he's always came across as a likable player.

(in reply to impqueen)
Post #: 4324
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 29/8/2012 1:01:06 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Thank you for everything Straussy, you've been a very dedicated, hard-working and modest man of English cricket. It's been a pleasure and hugely entertaining to watch him step into the role of England test captain amidst a furore at the end of 2008 and go on to lead England to the top of the world test rankings and back-to-back Ashes victories in Australia, becoming the first England captain to win a series down under since 1986-87. His problems with the bat have been usurped twice (a rarity in the international game) from his 177 at Napier against New Zealand in 2008 to rescue him from the brink of test exclusion to four centuries over the following year, two against India, one again against the this-time touring New Zealand and then 161 to set the marker for England at the home of cricket against arch-nemesis Australia in what perhaps will be seen as the defining start of England's dominance in world cricket for the next three years and perhaps, the sweetest of them all, as England moved into the catalyst for the first time of being able to say truly that they knew they were a better cricket team than Australia, despite the glory and drama of 2005.

His captaincy has been one of tremendous focus, conviction and honesty. Granted he may not be the tactical genius that the likes of Mike Brearley and Steve Waugh were, but he certainly was never as defensive as some liked to make out and his relationship with team director Andy Flower and their work ethic with the entire England team has been a key factor in the recent successes, especially those that led us to the top of the world rankings last year with test victories over Australia (3-1), Sri Lanka (2-0) and India (4-0). It is, still, a shame he couldn't have gone out on more of a high, not so much from a cricketing perspective, but more maybe with a less of an implosion in the England dressing room surrounding his retirement, quite a few social media highlights of "hope you're happy now KP!?" already and that is to be expected, this is the second time in a row now a captain's exit has been left clouded (although I really don't want to overstate the issue as for me I think Strauss should be allowed to go out as he deserves to, with his head held high and with the applause from the cricketing world he has earned) and England do need to get a lock on their discipline in the dressing room, especially where media and public communication is concerned.

A short but sweet and straightforward statement from Strauss this afternoon to announce his retirement, an honest reflection and archetypical of the type of man, lead and cricketer he is, he never demanded the limelight, even when he thoroughly deserved it. Good luck to him and his family for the future, hopefully this is not the last we have seen of his involvement with English cricket as, at any level, he truly is an absolute blessing to our game.

quote:

My cricket knowledge is very little but whenever I've seen Strauss talk to the press he's always came across as a likable player.


A very good word to sum him up. He's one of the few traditional cricketers left and his approach and attitude some up what is most beautiful about this sport.

< Message edited by Goodfella -- 29/8/2012 1:50:25 PM >


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to impqueen)
Post #: 4325
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 29/8/2012 2:29:06 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
One of the great England captains who led us through an era of major success - on top of that a thoroughly top bloke.

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Post #: 4326
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 31/8/2012 1:05:07 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
The second ODI starts in about ten or so minutes at the Oval. South Africa have won the toss again and have also chosen again to bat first. It looks a very, very good wicket, as you would expect really from an Oval pitch, especially one that has enjoyed the sun for the past fortnight or so after a battering of summer showers. Mind you this wicket does turn and that will present opportunities for Kent offspinner James Tredwell, in the team in place of the rested Graeme Swann. A bit of debate in the build-up at picking 30 year-old England journeyman Tredwell over the young county star Danny Briggs from Hampshire. But I like Tredwell, he's effective, he gets turn and he can mix up his length well. Briggs spins the ball but doesn't find much turn, he ties up ends and I don't think he's quite there yet as a player, he's in the same spot Adil Rashid was three years go and it'll be intriguing to see which way he goes, he has a lot of talent and bats well too but he darts the ball in like Mike Yardy and England need to take wickets here today on a good batting surface and that, for me, is why they've picked Tredwell.

They've also recalled Jade Dernbach, always a good move to pick a home-man but very risky to include three what are, technically, tail-enders. I always think in 50-over cricket you want to bat all the way down to at least nine, preferably ten, but Dernbach knows the Oval well. He needs to contain himself more today though and pick his stock ball well, he wants to save his slower balls and yorkers and I'd like to see us bowl him at Amla as much as possible. He's proved the most difficult South Africa batsman, alongside Graeme Smith, to get out this entire tour. His only slight fault sometimes can be not picking up the length of a slower, fuller delivery and I would like to see him come up against some of that from Dernbach. We should be able to chase a sizeable score on this wicket but under floodlights and batting down to eight we need to look at limiting South Africa to between 200 and 250. If they get over 280 I fear a few swift wickets will see us collapse and sacrifice any chance of a series win.

I don't understand why Chris Woakes was in the squad at Cardiff and robbed of his chance by a rain, then dropped at the Rose Bowl and not playing again today, especially given his such impressive form this domestic season, but that has always been the question mark over England's one-day selections and it will continue to persevere if England fail again today. I hope himself, Bairstow and Taylor are given their chance this series, although Bairstow not with the gloves, I hope Kieswetter rights his wrongs from the other day this afternoon and into this evening. I know he's good enough at this level, and higher, he just needs to show his talents.

Congratulations to Cook on being named England's new test captain and the very best of luck to him for this winter in India and into the future of his test captaincy. He's been a wonderful batsman and vocal and inspiring fielder for England, he fought back against his own batting demons that his predecessor twice conquered, amassing a sensational 766 runs in the Ashes series of 2010-11 and he has not looked back since. He has been moulded for this position for a long time now, even in some senses from a teenager at Essex, where he captained the second XIs and was involved in the England youth set-ups. It almost became a nonplus story because of how much it was expected. He is also England's second-highest averaging batsman in India currently, where he will take charge for his first series, in November. He averages 46 there, the only batsman to average higher is his first problem as a captain to encounter. Kevin Pietersen...

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 4327
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 31/8/2012 1:13:13 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Short, outside off, on the pads. All the kinds of bowling that this South Africa top order is going to eat up and spit back out.

This is really poor from England, even after just 3.2 overs.

Finn has been called for dead ball as well after knocking over the stumps for the third time already. Saker is going to have to take him into the nets and sort this out because it's becoming ridiculous now.

< Message edited by Goodfella -- 31/8/2012 1:14:12 PM >


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4328
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 31/8/2012 2:13:18 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
I knew he had it in him, Dernbach does get Amla! A fuller delivery, little bit of pace off it, nipped back into South Africa's best batsman and with a feather off the inside edge it cartwheels his legstump. Absolutely excellent wicket for England to pick up after South Africa were starting to look comfortable again. 73-2, Smith absolutely gave his wicket away, coming down the pitch and trying to hit Anderson over the offside and also having his stumps removed. Well balanced currently for this batting surface.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4329
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 31/8/2012 3:26:32 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Brilliant spell from Dernbach, he's really showed the extra something he brings to this England one-day team today. He can really mix up his varieties and prove a difficult bowler to score runs off, especially in the middle overs when the field restrictions are not in place, he got rid of the impressive Dean Elgar (a bright young talent in international cricket from what I've seen of him so far, with both bat and ball) with a lovely slower ball and when he gets it right it is still unreadable as proved by getting rid of Wayne Parnell with the same delivery, just this time going outside offstump. Kieswetter will be relieved to collect the catch after failing to get the gloves on two half-chances. Tredwell has bowled well too, he's got turn and he's pitched the ball well to the right-hander. If we can get South Africa out for around 200 to 220 that would be fantastic.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4330
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 31/8/2012 3:26:55 PM   
impqueen


Posts: 7474
Joined: 24/7/2006
It was a poor start but England have in my view improved significantly and I've a lot of time for Dernbach

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Yes, always.


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Post #: 4331
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 31/8/2012 3:36:51 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: impqueen

It was a poor start but England have in my view improved significantly and I've a lot of time for Dernbach


It annoys me when I see views like "why should he be in ahead of someone like Finn when he's not even English!?" Neither is half the England team in any format (I think we'll be appointing an Irishman as our new T20 captain after this year's World Cup) and after much debate and two very good mini-documentaries on Sky Sports during the South Africa test series it's much my view that in a multi-cultural country "being English" in sport is about you're desire and passion to represent and thrive for the country you chose to respect and love, I know that sounds a bit cheesy but it was the sentiment aired by many during the interviews, and not just those, by the way, who have switched international allegiance. If you get a chance to catch up with it, I think Devon Malcolm's interview sums it up best. I've tried to find it on youtube but unfortunately there's nothing there.

I've been a fan of Dernbach for a long time and haven't been afraid of stating that. I saw him make his debut for Surrey and have been impressed ever since and I think in this format of the game especially he is a very dangerous strike bowler, there's not many in the world who can perfect what he can. Sod where he was born, he is English by the definition of a modern Englishman, he wants to play for the country and he's good enough too. That's all I care about.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to impqueen)
Post #: 4332
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 31/8/2012 3:47:01 PM   
impqueen


Posts: 7474
Joined: 24/7/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella


quote:

ORIGINAL: impqueen

It was a poor start but England have in my view improved significantly and I've a lot of time for Dernbach


It annoys me when I see views like "why should he be in ahead of someone like Finn when he's not even English!?" Neither is half the England team in any format (I think we'll be appointing an Irishman as our new T20 captain after this year's World Cup) and after much debate and two very good mini-documentaries on Sky Sports during the South Africa test series it's much my view that in a multi-cultural country "being English" in sport is about you're desire and passion to represent and thrive for the country you chose to respect and love, I know that sounds a bit cheesy but it was the sentiment aired by many during the interviews, and not just those, by the way, who have switched international allegiance. If you get a chance to catch up with it, I think Devon Malcolm's interview sums it up best. I've tried to find it on youtube but unfortunately there's nothing there.

I've been a fan of Dernbach for a long time and haven't been afraid of stating that. I saw him make his debut for Surrey and have been impressed ever since and I think in this format of the game especially he is a very dangerous strike bowler, there's not many in the world who can perfect what he can. Sod where he was born, he is English by the definition of a modern Englishman, he wants to play for the country and he's good enough too. That's all I care about.


Where was Strauss born? Kieswetter? Prior? Trott? I've not seen Malcolm's interview but I'll keep an eye out, cheers. As for Dernbach he has always said that he doesn't think or feel he owes SA anything, his entire cricketing life and passion was developed in England. I agree too that for this format he can be very dangerous and has been.

_____________________________

Yes, always.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4333
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 31/8/2012 4:00:22 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
quote:

ORIGINAL: impqueen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella


quote:

ORIGINAL: impqueen

It was a poor start but England have in my view improved significantly and I've a lot of time for Dernbach


It annoys me when I see views like "why should he be in ahead of someone like Finn when he's not even English!?" Neither is half the England team in any format (I think we'll be appointing an Irishman as our new T20 captain after this year's World Cup) and after much debate and two very good mini-documentaries on Sky Sports during the South Africa test series it's much my view that in a multi-cultural country "being English" in sport is about you're desire and passion to represent and thrive for the country you chose to respect and love, I know that sounds a bit cheesy but it was the sentiment aired by many during the interviews, and not just those, by the way, who have switched international allegiance. If you get a chance to catch up with it, I think Devon Malcolm's interview sums it up best. I've tried to find it on youtube but unfortunately there's nothing there.

I've been a fan of Dernbach for a long time and haven't been afraid of stating that. I saw him make his debut for Surrey and have been impressed ever since and I think in this format of the game especially he is a very dangerous strike bowler, there's not many in the world who can perfect what he can. Sod where he was born, he is English by the definition of a modern Englishman, he wants to play for the country and he's good enough too. That's all I care about.


Where was Strauss born? Kieswetter? Prior? Trott? I've not seen Malcolm's interview but I'll keep an eye out, cheers. As for Dernbach he has always said that he doesn't think or feel he owes SA anything, his entire cricketing life and passion was developed in England. I agree too that for this format he can be very dangerous and has been.


Trott's a little different for me because he lived in South Africa until he was 18 and his entire cricketing career was developed over there but you're absolutely correct and it's like Nick Knight says, where do you draw the line? It's going to take someone with an awful lot of bottle and self-belief to make that call at some stage (it has got to be made though, that I will say) and I can assure you that person is neither Giles Clarke, Hugh Morris or any of the current England selectors. I will criticise Pietersen and pick him to pieces for what he's done to unbalance this dressing room but I'll never use the age-old "and he's not even bloody English!!" as I won't be that hypocritical. I can't blame South African cricketers for choosing England at all anyway, whilst Pietersen never went about it the right way, their quota system through the 1990s and into the early 2000s was a complete joke, it was never as bad or racist as apartheid but to a degree it may as well have been. They seemed to go from one polar opposite to the other, and it even saw black South African cricketers falling out with selectors because they felt it was unfair to be picked ahead of superior (and I'll state that was the first word that came to mind and I meant in cricketing terms) players who happened to be white. All South African cricketers since their exclusion from sport ended have wanted the same thing, success for South African cricket and to all be treated fairly and justly. And to many an extent, until very recently, they still weren't.

Speaking of racism in cricket you still encounter a fair amount of it on the wrong day at Taunton. Like Tuesday when the old boy member behind me kept referring to Saj Mahmood as a "Lancashire hotpot." Now I know he probably meant all hot but fairly soft when it comes down to the centre, but to describe a mixed race Asian player as a "hotpot" is, shall we say, poor judgement and he was a sarcastic, clever git and he also said when Harianath came out, "another bloody Surrey foreigner," so I'm willing to bet he knew exactly what he meant. Given the make-up of our team it just went to show what an absolute tit he truly is.

Yeah definitely check out the interview if you can, I think as the Pietersen saga continues to hot up anyway you will see more of it from Sky.

As for the Murali Kartik vs Alex Barrow run-out at Taunton yesterday, I wasn't there so only have it second-hand but, at the end of the day, whilst I don't think it's especially sportsman-like and does take away the aura of the game slightly, he had warned Barrow and a friend told me that the young wicketkeeper batsman was wandering off down the wicket frequently so it obviously pushed Kartik, we don't want to see too much of that but we can't have many complaints, the rules allow it and non-strikers need to be aware. Didn't appreciate the Tweets from Kartik about Somerset supporters though, especially after his three years with the county.

< Message edited by Goodfella -- 31/8/2012 4:17:51 PM >


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to impqueen)
Post #: 4334
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 31/8/2012 4:24:53 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
211 all out then, a really good effort all-round from our bowling attack. 212 is a score we really should get on this good batting surface. Good to see Anderson get back in amongst the wickets, he was just starting to teeter and labour after working very hard all summer with the ball and being perhaps just too good on a few occasions and beating the bat when there should have been an edge. Those four wickets today will do his confidence the world of good though. I expect England to win this now whilst I'm at work and if they don't we can't really have any excuses.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4335
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 1/9/2012 12:10:33 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
A good win for England yesterday and a much-needed one after a summer that has failed to live up to our expectations, not even going on to mention the early parts of 2012.

I've only seen bits and pieces of our winning innings as I was at work but Morgan looks the act again now he's worked on his unusual stance at the crease, he's getting through the ball more rather than letting it fly off the edge and Trott contributed a composed 71 but off 125 balls with just 2 fours and at a strike rate of around 55 I still have my concerns about Trott as an ODI batsman and certainly if the runs dry up he will find himself under pressure.

Tredwell bowled very well yesterday, lots of spin and turn and mixing up his lengths. I would take him to India in the winter ahead of Patel and Briggs.

Flower and Pietersen are rumoured to be meeting for "talks" in London today.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4336
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 2/9/2012 1:32:29 PM   
impqueen


Posts: 7474
Joined: 24/7/2006
Tredwell having another good game at the moment, I can see him on the plane for Winter too.

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Post #: 4337
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 2/9/2012 6:23:27 PM   
impqueen


Posts: 7474
Joined: 24/7/2006
England win by six wickets.

Fantastic final 20 minutes, some lovely shots. Bell should have gotten his 100 but was playing silly buggers at the end but Morgan and Kieswetter were class.

Bopara? Bowling superb, batting not so much.

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Post #: 4338
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 2/9/2012 6:57:48 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
England have bowled brilliantly in the last two one dayers, nice to see us turn these suckers over for once!

(in reply to impqueen)
Post #: 4339
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 3/9/2012 12:21:44 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: impqueen

England win by six wickets.

Fantastic final 20 minutes, some lovely shots. Bell should have gotten his 100 but was playing silly buggers at the end but Morgan and Kieswetter were class.

Bopara? Bowling superb, batting not so much.


Glad there are others who are starting to see where I'm coming from with Tredwell. He mixes it up really well and is a genuine turner of the ball as you saw with the wicket of Duminy where he flighted one outside of the line of legstump into the rough and got it to really turn away, that was an excellent stumping from Kieswetter too, he's had another good day to put some of his critics to bed. I still think he's the best wicketkeeper batsman for the England one-day teams and will feel disappointed if he's dropped under peer pressure to get Bairstow in as Kieswetter is the better wicketkeeper for me, I want to see Bairstow in the team and there's no reason both of them can't be.

Bopara's a good one-day bowler, the last two wickets have suited him which is why we've seen him bowl more (good captaincy from Cook there as well might I add!). The pitches have nipped about and offered some reverse swing for the older white ball but some late carry which suits a medium pacer like Bopara who likes to get the ball to move back in, South Africa have found his lengths hard to pick and he's difficult to rotate the strike off. He just lacks the confidence to be a better batsman than he currently is if you ask me, I know he's got the talent and ability, he's shown that in the past, he needs to find a way of solidifying his innings earlier and maybe a take on a bit more responsibility rather than just pushing around the singles, we've seen him do that in T20s and play the match-winner and I've seen him do it for Essex in one-dayers more times than I can remember, he's a wristy player but if it wasn't for his bowling this series currently, he'd be under pressure from James Taylor that's for sure.

It's good to see England back amongst the wins. I also enjoyed the Bopara gentleman's handshake celebration. It's good to see England enjoying their cricket again and having some fun, I don't think they did much of during the test series and with the all the off-field problems surrounding Pietersen England really needed to get the monkey off their back before the start of a long and important winter and they're doing that this series. Whatever the outcome regarding Pietersen, it's important the current England team focuses on it's cricket and battles back from a disappointing first half of 2012.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to impqueen)
Post #: 4340
RE: Strauss to resign as England captain! - 5/9/2012 9:11:24 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
I'm really sick of Botham now. Is his argument, every time England perform poorly, going to be "This wouldn't have happened if Pietersen had been batting." What a load of old bollocks. Shaun Pollock can give his head a wobble as well - "Pietersen wouldn't have casually flicked one up into the legside like Bairstow did at number four." Bloody hell Pollock, when did you last watch Pietersen play!? How many times has he been caught out attempting shots like that? Too many times to remember that's for sure. Half his problem to legspinners was shuffling across his crease, exposing his legstump and trying to hit through or across the line. All he's done is keep bringing up Pietersen in this post-series analysis, he is clearly in Pietersen's corner and that's fine because I expect nothing less from a man who attempted the downfall of the county I follow because they wouldn't select his, and I'll be vindictive here, pot-smoking friends for the following summer! He's trying to pin the blame on Strauss, saying it should have been resolved straight away. If only it was that easy. What, bury the hatchet and move on to suit a celeb cricketer who doesn't want any criticism himself but is quite happy to dish it out in the most seedy, underhand and disgraceful manner but expects to make a fumble of an apology and we should all move on because he's "better than everyone else"? What a fucking joke, for someone supposedly so dedicated to English cricket and such an ambassador of the game he's shown also what an utterly self-indulgent, arrogant prick he is too. Sod this, I'm going back to TMS. Geoffrey says it how it is.

Rant over though, no excuses for England's batting today. Getting in and getting out cheaply, it was good to see Woakes get some runs but England seem to lose their heads after losing wickets quickly again, Cook gets to 51 and then casually nibbles one back down the wicket to Du Plessis really summed it up. Bopara is completely out of form and confidence with the bat that it's a concern England may have only one option with to address, he does get beaten for pace by Steyn but he's also pushing his bat out there to just try and get a feel for the ball because he's clearly so nervous. 182 was never going to be anywhere near enough, it was a good track at Trent Bridge, one that batting first in baking sunshine should have really produced around 250. Despite a fine start with the ball and I do wish Anderson would bowl a fuller length more frequently like that in ODI cricket, it was always going to be an uphill task and Amla and De Villiers are the best partnership in the world and they ran England ragged, in the end it took complete potency out of the game and Amla continues to have been by far the best batsman this entire tour.



_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4341
No central contract for Pietersen! - 8/9/2012 12:49:44 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/19526089

The only real way England could go, with issues so sensitive and deep-seated it's going to take a long time to resolve and there's no guarantee even of that, no matter what that mickey mouse joker and fellow dressing room destroyer Botham says! Congratulations to the rest, no real surprises, just really pleased to see Onions get an incremental contract after his stirring fightback from a near-career-ending injury to finish the highest wicket-taker in the county championship this summer and work his way back into the England selectors minds for another long hard winter in the sub-continent.

Congratulations to Warwickshire on sealing their worthy place as county championship winners today after cruising to an innings and 209 runs victory over struggling local rivals Worcestershire. It marks a fine campaign for the Bears who came so agonisingly close to adding to their 2004 victorious season last summer but were pipped to the post by a romantic Lancashire result, this season though they have utterly deserved the title and winning it with a match still to spare in a sixteen-game season heavily effected by the rain speaks volumes about the way they have dominated the county game this summer.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4342
RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 8/9/2012 7:58:11 AM   
rikkie


Posts: 4660
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ego Tripping At The Gates Of Hell
Who at the ECB does Bopara have incriminating pictures of? How on hell has he been awarded a central contract?

_____________________________

Oh no, not the bees! Not the bees! Ahhhhhh! All over my eyes! Eyes! Blaaaarghhh!

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4343
RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 8/9/2012 3:11:38 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: rikkie

Who at the ECB does Bopara have incriminating pictures of? How on hell has he been awarded a central contract?


Bopara has an incremental contract, not the full central contract. I haven't heard anything about a story regarding Bopara having incriminating pictures of someone at the ECB, have you got a link? Bopara is out of nick and out of confidence, he needs a score today, I think he's a good player and has the ability for international cricket but inconsistency has prevailed in his stop-start career, he can be an important player for England on his day and he needs to show it with the bat in these remaining three T20s.

Run-out wasn't Kieswetter's fault at all, don't know what Hales was up too, he was halfway down the crease and had set off for a single that wasn't really there, Kallis may not be the quickest in the field but that's a long run with a short mid-wicket in and I wouldn't have even favoured Hales getting there if Kieswetter had set off. The desire to get back on strike and boost his prolific start to international cricket cost Hales. Kieswetter got undone by the spin we saw earlier in the women's match. South Africa have a good rotation of faster bowlers and slower bowlers, England not so much and we will be relying on Steven Finn to do the damage early and Samit Patel to hold it together in the middle especially if they're only chasing around 150 which I feel they will be.

EDIT: Bopara has just gone for 6, edging Steyn to slip. No excuses for that, didn't use his feet, rocked backwards and tried to cut a fast ball late. Bairstow in now and England labouring over 50.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to rikkie)
Post #: 4344
RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 12/9/2012 10:34:56 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon




Great to see both get such good knocks tonight, especially Buttler who has really seized his chance with the World T20 on the horizon, he's been averaging just 7 in 6 innings for England so far in T20s (although averages mean little in the game's shortest format, it's all about the strike rate and Buttler's was still at a very decent 80) but he needed that and it was good to see England bat to a very good score in a pressurised situation, something they haven't done at all really during this South Africa tour. It is hopefully a bit of momentum of confidence they can carry into Sri Lanka later this month.

Jade Dernbach showed again what a good one-day bowler he is for England with his variety of his deliveries and with Swann operating at the other end England have a really deadly strike duo there for the end of an innings, I'm starting to feel a bit more confident about this team defending it's trophy heading into the World T20.

I haven't had a chance to listen to 'We Need To Talk to Kevin' yet but will over the next few days on BBC's i-player. For anyone else who wants to listen, here's the link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search?q=We%20Need%20To%20Talk%20About%20Kevin

It certainly doesn't look like he'll be part of the touring party to India though.

< Message edited by Goodfella -- 12/9/2012 10:42:01 PM >


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4345
RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 13/9/2012 3:40:02 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella


quote:

ORIGINAL: rikkie

Who at the ECB does Bopara have incriminating pictures of? How on hell has he been awarded a central contract?

I haven't heard anything about a story regarding Bopara having incriminating pictures of someone at the ECB, have you got a link?


Goodfella he's joking

I think Bopara's time is up personally, consistently fails with the bat

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4346
RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 14/9/2012 1:38:32 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella


quote:

ORIGINAL: rikkie

Who at the ECB does Bopara have incriminating pictures of? How on hell has he been awarded a central contract?

I haven't heard anything about a story regarding Bopara having incriminating pictures of someone at the ECB, have you got a link?


Goodfella he's joking

I think Bopara's time is up personally, consistently fails with the bat



Sorry. It's been one hell of a long season at work and I'm on burnout at the minute, I've just had one pint of san miguel with a top and feel drunk already, I can't feel the tips of my fingers anymore, I need a holiday.

I still like Bopara and think he heralds the same potential he did four years ago but understand why others feel the way he do about him. He desperately needs some confidence, an arm around his shoulder and of course, a run or two. He's actually been a prolific match-winner for England during his one-day tenure so far but he's lost his way again lately and I feel if he's dropped completely without some reassurance then he will completely fade and become non-existent. No-one's really banging on his door in those top order spots either, I wouldn't want to see James Taylor batting as high as three nor would I want to see Eoin Morgan moved back in there, and Pietersen's not coming back any time soon....

Speaking of Pietersen, I listened to Radio 5's special and to be honest it just further dissected issues we were already aware of it and didn't present any new or interesting theories into KP's self-implosion and the collapse of his relationship with the England dressing room, there's plenty of hearsay from those journalists and cricket writers from Telford Vice to Andrew Miller to Michael Vaughan who all claim to know him best and understand his attitude and approach and can read into the motives of every move over the past six months that he has made as an England player, and for that matter throughout his entire cricketing career (his problems with coaches, selectors and authority in cricket in general dates right back to his days as a Natal player, his early relationship with then-South Africa captain Shaun Pollock who tried to salvage his career as a South African player and then his time at Nottinghamshire where him and captain James Gannon are believed to have come to blows in the dressing room and Gannon threw Pietersen's kit over the pavilion balcony during a county championship game). One interesting part of the docu-special was the interview with Clive Rice, long-time friend of Pietersen, who was far more brutally honest about Pietersen as a person than the other ilk of friends he has who have spoken out recently, namely Botham and Morgan. When asked if the actions and, as it was described, "loathing" of the dressing room of Pietersen's talent and the natural ego that comes with it had moulded the man who has taken matters very much into his own hands lately or was Pietersen always this type of volatile person who with great success and skill comes natural disaster? Rice, remember, one of Pietersen's closest friends, said that whichever way you look at things these type of things have followed him around his entire career and he knew the risks attached with the decisions he has made recently and that Pietersen knows he has done serious misdeeds and whilst he just wants to be forgiven and move on, things will never be that simple and easy where Pietersen is concerned. Rice pulls no punches and helped put Pietersen where he is now (he wouldn't be in England playing cricket if it wasn't for Rice for those who don't know) so I have the uppermost respect for the man where this issue is concerned. For all the lauding tripe we heard from Vaughan and Hayden, Rice was the greatest of the greatest to never play international cricket for his country, he was a much loved and feared captain and he never put up with any of this crap in his dressing room and he certainly doesn't expect Strauss/Cook and Flower to not do the same. Next to Tony Greig, he's the wisest man and has spoken the most sense so far. Miller was never going to criticise Pietersen on national radio, Adidas have just payed a ridiculous sum for a Pietersen exclusive with Wisden (now ironically co-owned by the BBC) to interview him two months ago (a fucking terrible interview might I add, I'm a subscriber and received the issue about five weeks ago and it was the most lifeless article they've produced for years) and Miller was never going to put him down now, despite allowing Michael Henderson to right a much-criticised piece in the same magazine 12 months ago which, ironically, was under the title 'We Need To Talk About Kevin' and basically predicted a doomsday approaching for Pietersen and the rest of the England team and how he believed his time was up, not only due to his poor batting, but his approach to the game and the team ethos England had worked so hard to create. He got absolutely rounded on for that article, the letters page next month was jam-packed with vitriol and abuse aimed his way. Now I don't like the man, he's the Martin Samuel of cricket, but who can sit here now and say he was completely wrong? I can't for sure.

Anyway moving away from what is likely to become quite a tiresome issue over the coming months till someone finally comes to a decision, I have to say I never, ever expected to be posting on the final days of the county season with Somerset as runners-up in the county championship (I fully expected it in the T20 and/or CB40!). With all the rain, injuries, form concerns and focus on finally nailing another one-day trophy there was a point I thought we could be where Lancashire are now but to finish second that's a real testament to the strength in depth we still possess in four-day cricket. Going to be very sad to see Abdur Rehman leave for one, he's been absolute revolution in the short time he's been Taunton and a fantastic team player by all accounts. The failures elsewhere still leave a very bitter taste in the mouth though and it's been another long, hard summer of anti-climaxes and there's going to be big changes this off-season. Brian Rose is off for one and I wouldn't be greatly shocked to see Andy Hurry follow (especially if England come knocking which I think they will with the World Cup now in sight) although I'll be saddened if he does. I think Alfie's time is up as well especially if he picks the entire IPL season over us, same for Suppiah and I think Hussain, Meschede and a number of academy players are all under threat to free up some much-needed cash-flow and space in the squad. We desperately need an opening batsman and opening fast bowler, we need to stop focusing so much on overseas players in one-day cricket as well. If Ricky Ponting does retire from all international cricket I expect us to be waiting with an offer, same for Kumar Sangakkara.

Congratulations to Derbyshire (I was shocked there!) and Hampshire for winning promotion to D1 and commiserations to Worcestershire and Lancashire on their relegation. The team likely to have disappointed the most is without a shadow of a doubt Glamorgan again. One county is going to go bust soon and it's a dead heat between themselves and Leicestershire and Glamorgan are riddled with debt, in-fighting and utterly awful cricket on the surface. They have let their members down seriously again this season in all forms of the game.

I'm still working on my teams of the season, they'll be up soon though.




_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 4347
RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 16/9/2012 2:10:04 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
First off, congratulations to Hampshire on winning their second one-day trophy of the season, and their third in two seasons, that's a very impressive effort for a county starting to really fight back, one who now just needs division one cricket back under it's roof. Chairman Rods Bangsrove has done a fantastic job there of building a cricketing home for head coach Giles White, captain Jimmy Adams and a well-selected assortment of players from homegrown youth to thrilling overseas signings like Simon Katich and Shahid Afridi (the latter of who will be returning to the county for the impending Champions League T20). Bansgrove draws a fine balance between the priority of bringing more international cricket to the Ageas Bowl and retaining Hampshire cricket as their primary source of income, these one-day trophy wins as well as being hugely exciting and enjoyable for their members and supporters, bring further finance to the one-day high-fliers, back it up with promotion back to the top flight next season I can easily see Hampshire winning further trophies in all formats in the coming years. Pivotal for them in the off-season will be what happens to Michael Carberry, there's many who see him as the replacement in the England set-up for Andrew Strauss. He's been a hugely influential player since returning from near death due to a blood clot in the lung and would leave a sizeable gap at the top of the order in all formats of the game due to his weight of runs and the way he aggressively tackles the new ball, he's an excellent fielder too and surprisingly quick for one that is not that light in the weight department. We'll see what happens soon when England announce the squad to tour India next week (that's if Miller and co. don't end up giving Pietersen another week to hang himself first!).

The World T20 starts this week in Sri Lanka of course, the first game on Tuesday between Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe in Hambantota. The groups for the tournament are as follows: Group A: England, Aghanistan India, Group B: Australia, West Indies, Ireland, Group C: Sri Lanka, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Group D: Pakistan, New Zealand, Bangladesh. England's first game is against Afghanistan on Friday in Colombo. Yep, that's right, Afghanistan, and no, Tony Blair is not involved. Afghanistan are everyone's romantic success story in the sport, formed only officially in 1995 and then becoming an affiliate nation of the ICC in 2001. This is their first major tournament after missing out on qualification for the World Cup in 2011 and they beat Scotland in the Intercontinental Cup to secure their spot in this trophy, they are not to be brushed aside, they are serious opposition which in some respects goes without saying. I've watched them on ESPN several times and they continually impress me, the conditions in Sri Lanka should suit them as well, Mohammed Shahzad is their blistering, attacking batsman to watch and they're nifty in the field. The chance to play England and potentially beat them has headline-grabbing shock written all over it, you can see it now already, and England will have to be on top of their game not to have a repeat of embarrassment they suffered last year in the World Cup when they faced Ireland.

As for England, I agree with Broad, they are a very exciting team. There's a lot of raw talent, ability and improvisation. Jos Buttler tops the list for me, obviously bias I may be but when this boy clicks he's an absolute rocket! He has it all, he has the talent and ability to score all around the field and he goes up through the gears very quickly, that's the kind of player you need in T20, one over can change a game as we saw when he smashed Wayne Parnell for 32 in one over just the other week. He has his own version of the Dilscoop where he steps across offstump, pedals his bat into the legside and scoops the ball up and over the gap between the wicketkeeper and square leg, usually for six, watch the youtube videos (if they're still around) of his CB40 innings against Nottinghamshire last season. One of the things that makes Buttler different from the other slightly-flattered Somerset batsmen is some of his better innings have come away from the flat track of Taunton, that innings for example was scored at Trent Bridge, a naturally bouncy wicket. He's a brilliant fielder too, Broad can use him anywhere, he's usually better in the gully region but if you want to sit him out at deep cover point he still won't drop any. It's good to see Michael Lumb back, part of the winning squad in 2010 and adds a bit of competition for who opens with Kieswetter who's runs will be ever more important now Pietersen is gone. Same goes for Luke Wright, he's excelled in T20 over the past 18 months, he comes back into the England squad having basically been away perfecting the arts of the game. I have a feeling he's going to have a really good tournament and he can knock a few over as he bowls really hard and straight but with a bit of late movement, on those wickets he might just get the inswing to make some batsmen's lives difficult. Of course the question on everyone's lips (again) is will we miss Pietersen too much? Of course you will always miss a player who can do what he does in this format of the game but we have enough firepower to not make it a deciding factor I feel, bowling is still where we are weak for me and Broad will need to cleverly rotate his bowlers, especially in turning conditions. Briggs has a great opportunity here, if he can't make it spin and turn in Sri Lanka then sorry he's going nowhere in the England set-up fast.

I actually think England will retain their trophy here, my confidence about this tournament has been building for some time and I think both Broad and his players have a point or two to prove. This is a young, energetic team which for once has no monkey on it's backs. They're defending champs and I think for once we will actually play like it.

EDIT: I forgot he played the shot off Parnell as well. It's the fourth ball in the over, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL52Fa4CHwo


< Message edited by Goodfella -- 16/9/2012 2:17:59 AM >


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4348
RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 16/9/2012 8:13:33 AM   
The Lensman


Posts: 1731
Joined: 15/3/2007
Carter you plum. Hit and run. No hit and run.

1 off the last ball. And fails. Silly.

Great season for the Bears either way. Giles has done wonders at the club. Bit upset that no test cricket will be at my local though. Edgbaston is one of the best grounds in the country and on a Saturday the best day of cricket in the country for an international test match.

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4349
RE: No central contract for Pietersen! - 16/9/2012 7:23:01 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Lensman

Carter you plum. Hit and run. No hit and run.

1 off the last ball. And fails. Silly.

Great season for the Bears either way. Giles has done wonders at the club. Bit upset that no test cricket will be at my local though. Edgbaston is one of the best grounds in the country and on a Saturday the best day of cricket in the country for an international test match.


Long time no hear Lensman, how you doing? You still been playing this summer or just watching?

Yeah it's a shame about Edgbaston not having an Ashes test next summer, it's my usual haunt for the Ashes home series but we're going to Old Trafford instead next summer. The amount of money the club have spent on improving the ground (it's like a new stadium if you ask me) and the luck they've had with weather over the past few years has not added up in their favour for an Ashes test which is a real shame but it's nice to see a bit more cricket moving up to Durham where I imagine they don't get a chance to see much. The Ageas Bowl will be next I think.

It has been a really good season for Warwickshire who have bounced back from runners-up disappointment last year (take note impending new Somerset director of cricket!) to take the county bowl this summer in a division they bossed that hasn't been since Sussex swept home to the title under the tutorage of Peter Moores. Warwickshire a good traditional county and have an English backbone to their team in the form of the likes of Troughton, Carter, Clarke and Woakes. Woakes has had a great season and England is very much on the horizon, there's a concerns he's too much of a line and length bowler and will struggle to move it around in test conditions and create wickets but they said the same about Bresnan and we saw what he ended up doing, Woakes scores heaps of runs as well and can bat at seven, eight or nine, I'll be very disappointed if England aren't using him more regularly within the next 18 months.

Ashley Giles is up against Richard Halsall, David Saker and Mick Newell to replace Andy Flower as head coach when he steps down after the 2015 World Cup if you ask me.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to The Lensman)
Post #: 4350
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