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It's Really Bad!

 
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It's Really Bad! - 14/11/2008 3:23:34 PM   
Nicky C

 

Posts: 696
Joined: 31/5/2006
Bad plot. Too many central characters. Should have had some relevance to real world artefacts and religion. Set pieces should have been stunts-based. The sword fight is cringe-worthy and looks like something out of POTC. The CG Monkeys are unforgivable, as are the CG gophers. Indy does little more than run around for the whole second half (where's the mystery and puzzle-solving?). The ending is out of Indy's hands and he does little more than watch it happen. The wedding is pointless and tacked on. Shia La Beouf is a douche and John Hurt is criminally underused, as is Jim Broadbent. One of them should have been like Marcus Broady (part of the action but ill-equipped). The idea that Aliens are responsible for man's evolution has been done to death and is totally unoriginal. Kate Blanchett is annoying in this film and the whole thing's generally flat. If I think of anything else I'll let you know, but I hope there isn't a fifth one, and also that George Lucas retires soon.

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Post #: 1411
Speilberg,,,, Lost his touch? - 14/11/2008 4:30:24 PM   
tt904

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 3/1/2007
I think, like a lot of people, I can't quite leave this movie alone. There are so many things to pick at! But deep down it still managed to be fun. I think all Speilberg's film, even his deadly serious one's manage to be incredibly watchable. I think the biggest mistake was that Speilberg actively decided to try and please the fans rather than himself... as such the film is way to referential and relies heavily on nostalgia. Speilberg is actually in quite an interesting phase of his career, his isn't having the enormous commercial successes of past decades - it's hard to see him directing another number 1 movie of all time, but creatively he seems freer and has more or less followed his whim. I wonder was it sensible to sit down and watch the previous three movies and then try and recreate the same look and sensibility. Indiana Jones had to acknowledge his age, it might have been more engaging if Steven had too,

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Post #: 1412
Stop blaming Lucas - 14/11/2008 4:37:18 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20199
Joined: 12/10/2005
Spiel-berg

The director of the film is Ste-ven Spiel-berg.

Post #: 1413
RE: Stop blaming Lucas - 14/11/2008 4:42:27 PM   
Monkeyshaver

 

Posts: 4734
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: La Planete Des Singe
Lu-cas.
The man who came up with the crap idea for Indy 4 is called G-eorge Lu-cas

_____________________________

Monkeyshaver is currently watching Doctor Who on the office TV.

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Post #: 1414
RE: Stop blaming Lucas - 14/11/2008 4:45:15 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20199
Joined: 12/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeyshaver

Lu-cas.
The man who came up with the crap idea for Indy 4 is called G-eorge Lu-cas


He didn't hold a gun to the director's head and say make this movie exactly as I say.

Everyone on planet Earth knows Spielberg is the most powerful filmmaker around, he allowed this film to be made. He easily could have said no to all the things people dislike about the film but he didn't, why? Because he is happy with the film.

(in reply to Monkeyshaver)
Post #: 1415
RE: It's Really Bad! - 14/11/2008 5:07:55 PM   
bad hat harry


Posts: 468
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: reality is twisted, i am a buffalo
double post*


< Message edited by bad hat harry -- 14/11/2008 5:10:15 PM >


_____________________________

I was thrown out of college for cheating on the metaphysics exam; I looked into the soul of the boy sitting next to me.Ē
ó Woody Allen


(in reply to Nicky C)
Post #: 1416
RE: It's Really Bad! - 14/11/2008 5:11:37 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20199
Joined: 12/10/2005
I don't think the good outweighed the bad.

It's a forgettable summer blockbuster film.

(in reply to bad hat harry)
Post #: 1417
RE: It's Really Bad! - 14/11/2008 5:32:29 PM   
bad hat harry


Posts: 468
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: reality is twisted, i am a buffalo
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

I don't think the good outweighed the bad.

It's a forgettable†summer blockbuster†film.



it did for me

but i cant really argue with the forgettable summer blockbuster tag with indy 4. that sums up pretty much what it is. but it completely worked for me on that level.

< Message edited by bad hat harry -- 14/11/2008 5:37:32 PM >


_____________________________

I was thrown out of college for cheating on the metaphysics exam; I looked into the soul of the boy sitting next to me.Ē
ó Woody Allen


(in reply to Tech_Noir)
Post #: 1418
RE: In My Opinion.... - 14/11/2008 5:40:07 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: hatebox

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrooksyTHX1138

The concept of hiding in a fridge is no sillier than jumping out of a plane and using a dinghy as a parachute/safety mat....I felt that at a time when Bourne/Bond/Batman were all being realistic Indy 4 was a pleasure!




The only difference is that the dinhgy scene was done for real. Says it all really.




If by "done for real" you mean putting some dummies in a dinghy and flinging it out of a low flying plane then yes it was


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

3D moving images are not films, they're holograms, and should be treated as a separate medium of storytelling, or artform.

Post #: 1419
RE: In My Opinion.... - 14/11/2008 9:30:44 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
I rented this last night to see if it had improved since i saw it in may.To be honest i did enjoy it a little more than the first time.The cinematography is very good and the action and fx scenes are good.

However,the film drags big time during the midsection.Indy and Mutt go into a cave and just talk,talk,talk,talk,talk,talk and walk out with a crystal skull that wasnt that hard to get really.This would have been a greta opportunity for Indy to overcome some awesome traps like he did in the classic trilogy,but it was wasted.The scene where Indy and the gang are captured in the camp seems to go on for eternity.

Two things REALLY bugged me this time.After the waterfalls sequence,Indy picks up the skull,sees the cave entrance and says ''I have to do this alone''.Next thing we see,the whole gang are with him as he enters the caves.The movie contradicts itself! And why,why,why when Mac stumbles as he is trying to escape,does Indy toss him his whip to help him? The guy is just a few steps away from him! All Indy had to do was take a few steps and help him up(Its not as if Mac couldnt just stand up and follow Indy out either).This was the most nonsensical thing iv ever seen!

I do think the Jungle chase is really good however,and Indy fighting the big russian surrounded by ants was cool.

_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

(in reply to krudler)
Post #: 1420
RE: In My Opinion.... - 14/11/2008 9:44:19 PM   
ondara73

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 24/8/2008
i saw this last night and it was going along fine.harrison a bit older but still cuts it and the look of the film is good.and then the aliens!and the spaceship!!in a indy film!!!destroyed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!why would you think to have aliens in a indy film.i saw it was Lucas,s idea.he,s a legend for creating star wars,but aliens do not fit into this movie.lost ark,ok,temple of doom,ok,the holy grail,pushin it but aliens noooooooooooooooooo!!now u have a great trilogy with this turkey added on.dont even think about part5!

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 1421
RE: In My Opinion.... - 14/11/2008 10:01:21 PM   
UTB


Posts: 9835
Joined: 30/9/2005
I find it fascinating that a generation obsessed by Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestarse Galactica and so on find it so incredibly difficult to accept aliens in an Indy film, but find melting faces, voodoo and a grail giving eternal life is acceptable.


(in reply to ondara73)
Post #: 1422
DVD of the Weak - 15/11/2008 12:35:06 AM   
GreatScott!!!

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 15/11/2008
I admit it. I liked Phantom Menace. That's right. Liked it. But now I know how crushed many Star Wars fans felt back in the summer of '99. This is my Episode One.
Back in Raiders, Ford said "I dunno, I'm making this up as I go along". It was a quip, a gag, but even if they were it was with some energy. But in Kingdom, decades later, the whole thing hobbles along like its the literal truth.
And it's so obvious when they run out of ideas, and unfortunately that would be right after the beginning - a breathless setpiece ruined by the trailer.
But the symptoms of this - meaningless characters (Hurt, sadly least relevant of all), dreadful lines ("it's always been you baby" - whatever) and CGI monkeys could all be forgiven if it were for one thing... the ending.
The film just suddenly falls flat, and Hurts character suddenly sobers up long enough to mention something about parallel worlds - an enticing concept flushed down the bog as quickly as it's brought up. It's like there's a whole final third to this film, an encore, but the tired out rock act that is the Indiana Jones show aint coming back on stage.

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 1423
RE: In My Opinion.... - 15/11/2008 5:28:25 AM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12174
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas
And why,why,why when Mac stumbles as he is trying to escape,does Indy toss him his whip to help him? The guy is just a few steps away from him! All Indy had to do was take a few steps and help him up(Its not as if Mac couldnt just stand up and follow Indy out either).This was the most nonsensical thing iv ever seen!

That occurred to me as well actually.

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 1424
RE: DVD of the Weak - 15/11/2008 10:36:49 AM   
skeletonjack


Posts: 1299
Joined: 30/9/2005
I watched it again last night to see if time had altered my opinion of the film.
It has actually,  for the worse.
Whilst the fridge scene is still ridiculous, it, along with the gophers (or whatever) didn't really bother me at all this time round. However, I hadn't realised just how annoying Karen Allen is in the film until now. Her silly "school girl crush" type facial expressions throughout the movie were far more irritating than I'd remembered. Add to this John Hurt's incredibly annoying character, (how many times can he spout "Henry Jones Junior") and it all starts to fall to pieces.
In fact I'd go as far to say that the film itself starts to go downhill as soon as Marion appears. Up until then its been a fairly enjoyable romp, but as soon as she arrives the real problems with the flick arrive with it.
Other things then: the jeep landing on the tree: rubbish.
Inter dimensional beings: rubbish, they just don't fit in an Indy movie. Religious beliefs and the supernatural yes, aliens, no.
I think on initial viewings I gave the film 4 stars which on repeat viewings was way too generous. This is an average 3 star film at best. I think my earlier rating was probably based more on the excitement that Indy was actually back, and on the assumption that I had to love the movie. Looking at it more objectively now, its obvious why so many disliked it in the first place.
The Indy films hold a very close place in my heart, I saw Raiders at the cinema with my dad when I was 5 and it really is a shame to see the series end in this way(if it has ended). If more movies are to be made, please set them pre Crystal Skull and do away with Mutt, Marion and all of the other factors that made Crystal Skull so depressingly average.

< Message edited by skeletonjack -- 15/11/2008 12:14:18 PM >
Post #: 1425
RE: In My Opinion.... - 15/11/2008 12:47:46 PM   
rich


Posts: 5007
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

I find it fascinating that a generation obsessed by Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestarse Galactica and so on find it so incredibly difficult to accept aliens in an Indy film, but find melting faces, voodoo and a grail giving eternal life is acceptable.




Because the film is a horrible soul-less mess and people find it easier the pick at one element rather than the film as a whole? It still amazes me the thing starts with "A Steven Speilberg Film" when it lacks any of his trade mark magic. Complete waste.


_____________________________

Meanwhile...

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Post #: 1426
RE: In My Opinion.... - 15/11/2008 1:21:23 PM   
ondara73

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 24/8/2008
saw this last night.it was going along ok.harrison was ok and the look was good,but then the story.aliens!a spaceship!!in a indy film!!!WHY!!!!i love george lucas for creating star wars,but dont bring aliens into a indy film.an ark,yes,temple of doom,yes,holy grail,pushing it..but aliens in a indy film doesnt fit.now u have a great trilogy with a turkey hanging out the back.dont make anymore!!!

(in reply to rich)
Post #: 1427
RE: In My Opinion.... - 15/11/2008 1:31:23 PM   
skeletonjack


Posts: 1299
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

I find it fascinating that a generation obsessed by Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestarse Galactica and so on find it so incredibly difficult to accept aliens in an Indy film, but find melting faces, voodoo and a grail giving eternal life is acceptable.



That's a massive generalisation: I can't stand Star Trek or Battlestar Gallactica, so am certainly not from a generation obsessed by them (is there such a generation?). I however grew up with the Indy films and the reason I do not accept Aliens etc in the mix is because they are not part of the mythology that made Indy so much fun in the first place. Indy was all about religious artefacts, the power of god etc. Of course we accept the melting faces and the likes because they are the aspects that helped mould the Indy films into what they were, not science fiction and UFO's.

(in reply to UTB)
Post #: 1428
RE: In My Opinion.... - 15/11/2008 1:45:16 PM   
UTB


Posts: 9835
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: skeletonjack

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

I find it fascinating that a generation obsessed by Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestarse Galactica and so on find it so incredibly difficult to accept aliens in an Indy film, but find melting faces, voodoo and a grail giving eternal life is acceptable.



That's a massive generalisation: I can't stand Star Trek or Battlestar Gallactica, so am certainly not from a generation obsessed by them (is there such a generation?). I however grew up with the Indy films and the reason I do not accept Aliens etc in the mix is because they are not part of the mythology that made Indy so much fun in the first place. Indy was all about religious artefacts, the power of god etc. Of course we accept the melting faces and the likes because they are the aspects that helped mould the Indy films into what they were, not science fiction and UFO's.


That depends on the viewer's religious views, surely? Personaly I think religion is mumbo jumbo, so to me the fact that Indy discovered aliens is no more or less shocking that him discovering a 1000 year old man.

I grew up on Indy as well, but I thought the whole aliens thing fitted in well with the whole 1950s vibe the film had.

There seems to be this whole "Indy was ruined by aliens" vibe going on, when really Indy was ruined by bringing it back to the big screen. Given how many people grew up on it, it would never live up to your, my, or anyone elses expectations.

Instead of dwelling on it, however, I looked past that and accepted it for what it is. A fun film.


(in reply to skeletonjack)
Post #: 1429
RE: In My Opinion.... - 15/11/2008 3:12:03 PM   
skeletonjack


Posts: 1299
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB


That depends on the viewer's religious views, surely?




No, I don't think so.  I'm not in any way religious, but as a viewer I accept the world presented to me in the Indy movies. This world set out in the first three movies presents the power of god as real etc so we just go along with it for the ride. With Crystal Skull they introduced an element that just seemed out of place as if it didn't belong there. Maybes if they'd done it without the blatant CGI it would have been better but the fact was that it didn't look or feel like it belonged in an Indy movie. I still think they could have made a great sequel which would not have been a let down, it just seems that the makers were pre-occupied with one particular storyline.
As you say, Crystal Skull isn't a bad film, its just a disappointing Indy film, and thats the real shame.

(in reply to UTB)
Post #: 1430
RE: In My Opinion.... - 15/11/2008 4:35:13 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
Look everyone,they werent Aliens.They were ''interdimensional beings''.So says Uncle George.

_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

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Post #: 1431
A lot of fun! - 15/11/2008 10:07:08 PM   
giddig


Posts: 481
Joined: 1/10/2005
I watched it twice at the cinema and just saw it a third time on DVD. The first time was a bit disappointing, the second time it was good with expectation more realistic and a third time it was very good. The first three were great and the fourth is a bit different but it's not nearly as a bad as some people say. The gophers, the silly tarzan bit and Karen Allen's hammy acting are all very forgiveable. The old ones had their silly and hammy bits too. The only bit I properly dislike is the full on sci-fi, Close Encounters ending. They should have the destructive ending and leave it up to the viewer to decide the exact reason. That sci-fi ending is the contrast from previous films magical artefacts that separates this one from the others. It's all good fun though. Watch and enjoy. But please, no more wth Harrison Ford and no more more with son of Indy taking over that would be a step too.

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Post #: 1432
RE: In My Opinion.... - 18/11/2008 2:06:37 PM   
pablohoolio


Posts: 5027
Joined: 13/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: ondara73

saw this last night.it was going along ok.harrison was ok and the look was good,but then the story.aliens!a spaceship!!in a indy film!!!WHY!!!!i love george lucas for creating star wars,but dont bring aliens into a indy film.an ark,yes,temple of doom,yes,holy grail,pushing it..but aliens in a indy film doesnt fit.now u have a great trilogy with a turkey hanging out the back.dont make anymore!!!


I night be wrong but.... isn't?

The Ark is a mytholgical object never proven or disproven.
The Grail is a mytholgical concept, never proven or disproven.
Aliens and Roswell are mythological concepts never proven or disproven.

So whats the problem? Sci-fi elements in a 50's B Movie style are perfectly in keeping with the adventure serial feel of Indiana Jones and the time period it was set.

I think people automatically want to dislike the movie simply because George Lucas is involved. A lot of what i've heard and read is nonsensical and illogical (critisising the movie's end because Indy didn't have anything to do when Raiders of the Lost Ark ended with Indy doing nothing for the last 10 minutes!!!)




_____________________________

"It's all.... part of the plan...."

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Post #: 1433
RE: In My Opinion.... - 18/11/2008 3:19:33 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
EDIT : double post

< Message edited by Fluke Skywalker -- 18/11/2008 3:23:38 PM >

(in reply to pablohoolio)
Post #: 1434
RE: In My Opinion.... - 18/11/2008 3:21:04 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
I found no problem with the alien story whatsoever - as I said before I felt it was a pretty natural progression from all the supernatural stuff and an excellent creative decision by Lucas/ Spielberg. Plus the final alien ship take off is a cinematic work of art

(in reply to pablohoolio)
Post #: 1435
RE: In My Opinion.... - 18/11/2008 6:29:08 PM   
hatebox

 

Posts: 942
Joined: 14/2/2008
I had no problems with aliens, I had a much bigger problem with the fact that the story was a complete mess.

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 1436
scootster says - 20/11/2008 5:34:37 PM   
gordon livey

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 20/2/2007
come on people two stars? thats a bit harsh action was good clean fun those little laughs were good loved the gophers or whatever those wee furry creatures were at nevada and talking about area 51 thought the story was good remember after watching the spec features (yes i know im sad) they were inter galatic beings from another dimension but hey thats the whole thing about indy hes adventure and who cares if you treat it like any other film in the saga then we buy into it at the very beginning. cgi as i thought was pretty and looked expensive (no mist heehee) thought the era looked amazing it was a polished film with great looking colour, maybe a little serendipity at the end but hey who cares. i take my hat off for harrison he was terrific a great actor through and through and it seems a gentleman to boot. it has to be at least 3 so im givin it a 4 haha.

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Post #: 1437
scootster says - 20/11/2008 5:34:46 PM   
gordon livey

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 20/2/2007
come on people two stars? thats a bit harsh action was good clean fun those little laughs were good loved the gophers or whatever those wee furry creatures were at nevada and talking about area 51 thought the story was good remember after watching the spec features (yes i know im sad) they were inter galatic beings from another dimension but hey thats the whole thing about indy hes adventure and who cares if you treat it like any other film in the saga then we buy into it at the very beginning. cgi as i thought was pretty and looked expensive (no mist heehee) thought the era looked amazing it was a polished film with great looking colour, maybe a little serendipity at the end but hey who cares. i take my hat off for harrison he was terrific a great actor through and through and it seems a gentleman to boot. it has to be at least 3 so im givin it a 4 haha.

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Post #: 1438
RE: scootster says - 25/11/2008 3:38:37 PM   
blackduck


Posts: 1604
Joined: 1/10/2005
So, finally got to see it. Maybe because it was the small screen but I wasnít too bothered by the gophers, ok I was kinda expecting them to burst into song at one point but all in all harmless enough. The sci-fi angle worked fine too, totally fit into the 50ís vibe of the film. The fridge bit was dumb, but the shot of Indy and the atomic mushroom (probally the only title they didnít consider) was kinda cool so Iíll let him away with it. But just to say, jumping out of a plane in a inflatable raft there is a million to one shot of surviving, but itís possible. Ground zero nuke, not a hope in hellÖ.
 
But hey itís a bit of fun just enjoy it for what it is.
 
But then the plot starts to unravel. I think the reason people are upset about the aliens (interdimensional beings, whatever) is more to do with the way the plot is handled. Too many dumb things happen. The effects on the sword fight were appalling ( If it was a new director with a mid level budget itíd be excusable , but at their level I expect a bit of quality control). Then there was some sloppy plotting, the fight with the red ants was great, but where did the truck load of Russians disappear to? And reappear, and disappear again??
 
 
Overall itís a fun movie, but it feels more like a soulless rehash of the other films than anything new and exciting.
 
Also, am I the only one who watched the making of doc on the DVD and think it came across as the ĎBerg distancing himself from Lucas plot devices?

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Post #: 1439
RE: scootster says - 25/11/2008 3:39:27 PM   
blackduck


Posts: 1604
Joined: 1/10/2005
So, finally got to see it. Maybe because it was the small screen but I wasnít too bothered by the gophers, ok I was kinda expecting them to burst into song at one point but all in all harmless enough. The sci-fi angle worked fine too, totally fit into the 50ís vibe of the film. The fridge bit was dumb, but the shot of Indy and the atomic mushroom (probally the only title they didnít consider) was kinda cool so Iíll let him away with it. But just to say, jumping out of a plane in a inflatable raft there is a million to one shot of surviving, but itís possible. Ground zero nuke, not a hope in hellÖ.
 
But hey itís a bit of fun just enjoy it for what it is.
 
But then the plot starts to unravel. I think the reason people are upset about the aliens (interdimensional beings, whatever) is more to do with the way the plot is handled. Too many dumb things happen. The effects on the sword fight were appalling ( If it was a new director with a mid level budget itíd be excusable , but at their level I expect a bit of quality control). Then there was some sloppy plotting, the fight with the red ants was great, but where did the truck load of Russians disappear to? And reappear, and disappear again??
 
 
Overall itís a fun movie, but it feels more like a soulless rehash of the other films than anything new and exciting.
 
Also, am I the only one who watched the making of doc on the DVD and think it came across as the ĎBerg distancing himself from Lucas plot devices?

_____________________________

I am but an egg.
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