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RE: WWE - 22/7/2008 11:36:16 AM   
Frank Castle


Posts: 1844
Joined: 14/10/2005
From: Parts Unknown
 Right why on earth would u build and build and build matt hardys us title win for him to lose it a few months later?? Why do they keep screwing this guy. i just dont get it, i really dont? No doubt who the person will be to beat shelton for the us title, bloody jeff hardy, who's betting with me? Anouther kick to matts nuts?
   When matt returned with the whole lita thing with edge they could heve built him up. The reaction he was getting from the crowd was massive that they could have used to escilate him to the next level. but no they pretty much squashed the guy. It sucks the guys actually got wrestling ability unlike his brother (im not gonna go into all that again but seriously he's better by far!).
My only salvation will be if now he's got the tast for singles gold they can build him into a feud with mark henry and they give him the ecw title.

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Post #: 4321
RE: WWE - 22/7/2008 11:40:35 AM   
theoriginalcynic


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Which is practically meaningless these days! Mark Henry should not be a champion in 2008

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Post #: 4322
RE: WWE - 22/7/2008 2:29:12 PM   
Frank Castle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

Which is practically meaningless these days! Mark Henry should not be a champion in 2008


Yeah buts its still the main title on ecw and could be another stepping stone for matt.
  Henrys in ring ability is limited at best but least his moves (the few he knows) actually look like they can hurt a guy. He has a strong man gimmick that works well for a heel. I have no probs with a monster heel as champ. But prob should have just turned kane heel on ecw and nt move him to raw?

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Post #: 4323
RE: WWE - 22/7/2008 11:58:52 PM   
John_P


Posts: 483
Joined: 30/9/2005
why couldn't Punk at least pin batista after the outside interference on either occasion? since becoming champ he's beaten JBL (who got distracted by Cena), and snitski cleanly, other than that he's had a bunch of matches were no one wins and he gets beaten up after the match.


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Post #: 4324
RE: WWE - 23/7/2008 11:13:46 AM   
Rotary Ten


Posts: 908
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CM Punk is a face, correct? So he should retain his title decisively if not cleanly.

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Post #: 4325
RE: WWE - 23/7/2008 11:59:54 AM   
theoriginalcynic


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Exactly it's just more bs from WWE and they wonder why the ratings are falling...

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Post #: 4326
RE: WWE - 23/7/2008 12:01:22 PM   
theoriginalcynic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank Castle

quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

Which is practically meaningless these days! Mark Henry should not be a champion in 2008


Yeah buts its still the main title on ecw and could be another stepping stone for matt.
Henrys in ring ability is limited at best but least his moves (the few he knows) actually look like they can hurt a guy. He has a strong man gimmick that works well for a heel. I have no probs with a monster heel as champ. But prob should have just turned kane heel on ecw and nt move him to raw?


We'll agree to disagree Frank - yeah its the main title but to me Henry is too slow to look like he could hurt anybody...

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Post #: 4327
RE: WWE - 23/7/2008 3:08:55 PM   
Heywood


Posts: 1067
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quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic

Exactly it's just more bs from WWE and they wonder why the ratings are falling...


If you think that now, just wait until SD on friday to see who will be facing HHH at Summerslam. Then, I think you will have a point. As it is, the ratings have actually been better over the last few weeks and the shows have mostly been very well-received (generally, if not on here!). CM Punk's matches have had some of the highest ratings of all. While I can see where you guys are coming from regarding clean wins, I personally think that will come in time, but probably not against Batista. I think WWE were in a no-win situation there. They didn't want either guy to lose, so booked the interferences in both title matches. It may have been better not to book the matches at all if no-one was allowed to win. I actually thought Punk came out better in the raw match, as he had most of the offence and it was by no means certain that Batista had the match won when JBL interfered. I guess another factor in the non-finish was that they couldn't be seen to be giving a clean pin in a free match when they didn't on the PPV.

Another factor regarding Batista losing cleanly: how many World title matches has he actually lost cleanly over the last 3 years? To my knowledge, only a handful and only to the Undertaker. Hell, even their one-on-one series ended in a draw. My point is that we shouldn't feel there is anything too unusual about Punk not winning cleanly. Like Cena, Batista is booked as superman, so whether we like it or not, that isn't changing any time soon.

As for Summerslam, I suspect Punk may end up facing a new opponent. It wouldn't surprise me if Batista and Kane face off together, while we will no doubt get Cena-JBL yet again. Now HBK is out of the picture for a while, I can see Jericho being Punk's opponent for Summerslam. That would be a fine match and Y2J would probably put Punk over, if asked. I imagine the Batista-Cena showdown may have to wait until WM25.

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Post #: 4328
RE: WWE - 23/7/2008 4:27:43 PM   
Rotary Ten


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You make some interesting points there. On the whole I think it would have been better if Punk had beaten Batista at the Bash but in a way that still gives Batista motivation to demand a rematch the following night. Maybe Kane should have interfered without the ref's knowledge, and Punk got a count out win? That way the finish on Raw would be fine. That kind of finish happens on TV all the time, the problem is that we want to see Punk properly established as the champ, and that hasn't happened yet. I think the problem is that too many people are involved in this, and WWE don't want any of them to look like losers. You've got Batista, Kane and JBL all around it, and Cena isn't far off. If Punk had just one opponent, this would be much simpler.

It would be quite easy to write in a Y2J-Punk title match, as Jericho has just "ended Shawn Michaels' career" after all, and if WWE internal logic says that's not worthy of a shot, then nothing is. But I expect the Y2J-HBK angle to go on to Summerslam, if not beyond, so I think it'll be Punk-Batista-Kane for Punk's title at Summerslam, with some combination of that match to take place at SNME between now and then.

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Post #: 4329
RE: WWE - 23/7/2008 4:43:12 PM   
Heywood


Posts: 1067
Joined: 1/6/2006
I do think they could have booked the end of the Punk-Batista matches differently, so that Punk won by countout or something like that, but I suspect nothing short of a clean win would satisfy many people. While we all would book that ourselves, it is clear WWE want to keep Batista unbeaten since his switch to Raw. If they do go with a Punk-Batista-Kane match at Summerslam, then I guess Kane would be the one to take the pin, if Punk were to go over. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I do feel WWE are deliberately booking the "fighting champion searching for that defining win" storyline with Punk. Summerslam would seem like the ideal place for him to finally achieve his goal.

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Post #: 4330
RE: WWE - 23/7/2008 4:52:34 PM   
coolstar

 

Posts: 1568
Joined: 9/1/2007
I say bring back stone cold but thats not gonna happen. I would like to see the undertaker back for a four way match at summerslam

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Post #: 4331
RE: WWE - 23/7/2008 7:25:30 PM   
theoriginalcynic


Posts: 4382
Joined: 10/4/2007
I agree with most of your poins above.  Punk vs Y2J would be a great feud if it's booked correctly.  Y2J gave a great speech on Raw.  He went onto say the fans didn't cheer him that muchwhen he returned because they wanted the long haired joker that he used to be.  A case of real life mixing with storylines as this is true.  Jericho is finally over again and I don't think a loss would be good for him right now.  I don't mind a run in or a count out as long as it's not made to look like Punk's retain was a fluke.  That's what's happened - Batista on both occasions would have won if not for run ins.  I just hope WWE listen to their fans and stop making the champion look inferior to the challenger. 

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Post #: 4332
RE: WWE - 24/7/2008 12:07:08 PM   
Rotary Ten


Posts: 908
Joined: 31/10/2005
The problem with the CM Punk reign is that the whole thing has been booked the wrong way round. The theme of him proving himself would work while he was still waiting to cash in MITB. You have the same scenario of him fighting Batista etc and having wins denied to him via DQ, interference, and getting frustrated that he can't prove himself capable of beating the top guys on the roster. THEN he cashes in his title shot, beats Edge, (without Batista having a go first), and he's done it. That would be a journey. The problem is that nothing in particular happened in between Mania 24 and beating Edge, so only now is he doing the proving himself schtick.

Amongst all this though, we've forgotten to celebrate the fact that on Raw, we now have Kofi Kingston as IC champion, Rhodes and DiBiase as tag champions, and Punk as the world champion. Whatever you think of their characters and their booking, these are young wrestlers with plenty of potential at their respective levels of the card and beyond, being given a chance to run with major WWE belts. And there's no Triple H to hold them back!

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Post #: 4333
RE: WWE - 25/7/2008 1:08:47 PM   
Sleazy


Posts: 1111
Joined: 16/10/2005
really good post Rotary, hit the nail right on the head.

Steph should hire YOU

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Post #: 4334
RE: WWE - 25/7/2008 2:08:03 PM   
theoriginalcynic


Posts: 4382
Joined: 10/4/2007
Great match on ECW - don't miss it! Matt vs Morrison vs Miz vs Finlay.  Predictable outcome but damn that match was special...  Evan Bourne was superb too and good to see Tommy get the win! Miles better then Raw this week...



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Post #: 4335
RE: WWE - 25/7/2008 2:34:36 PM   
coolstar

 

Posts: 1568
Joined: 9/1/2007
Will the Attitude Era be available on dvd ? I know we have the 15th anneversery of raw but the Attitude Era needs its on dvd.

I miss does days

If not can i start a tread about the Attitude Era???


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Post #: 4336
RE: WWE - 25/7/2008 3:08:20 PM   
Heywood


Posts: 1067
Joined: 1/6/2006
ECW has been really good the last few weeks, but that Fatal fourway was awesome. One of the best WWE TV matches of the year and more exciting than anything on the Bash PPV. Hardy vs Henry at Summerslam should be OK. I think if they plan to keep Henry as ECW champ for some time, then facing off against guys like Matt and Finlay should make for watchable matches. I'm liking Evan Bourne a lot too. Putting him in a feud with Chavo is a very good idea. It's strange that ECW seems to have many of the best matches these days. While I have been really enjoying Raw as a show lately, there haven't been that many great matches, just entertaining angles and promos. I agree with Rotary Ten that having the young guys holding the belts is very refreshing.

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Post #: 4337
RE: WWE - 25/7/2008 5:05:06 PM   
Rotary Ten


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Joined: 31/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sleazy

really good post Rotary, hit the nail right on the head.

Steph should hire YOU


Cheers!

I think the best storylines in wrestling are those that take you on an emotional journey. It gets the audience to believe in the characters and adds weight to the matches. As I see it, CM Punk winning a world title should be a star-making storyline where his hard work finally pays off, he proves himself, and the audience is with him because they feel he deserves to be champion. Quite simple challenger vs champion stuff that Punk and an established star champion such as Edge are quite capable of working with, and you can still work in the surprise element of not knowing when Punk is going to cash in his title shot. But the storyline they've gone with is to have him prove himself after he's actually won it.

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Post #: 4338
RE: WWE - 25/7/2008 5:34:22 PM   
timomouse


Posts: 778
Joined: 12/3/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rotary Ten

I think the best storylines in wrestling are those that take you on an emotional journey. It gets the audience to believe in the characters and adds weight to the matches. As I see it, CM Punk winning a world title should be a star-making storyline where his hard work finally pays off, he proves himself, and the audience is with him because they feel he deserves to be champion. Quite simple challenger vs champion stuff that Punk and an established star champion such as Edge are quite capable of working with, and you can still work in the surprise element of not knowing when Punk is going to cash in his title shot. But the storyline they've gone with is to have him prove himself after he's actually won it.



Exactly, at the minute, Punk's reign has been booked wrongly, unless he gets really close to getting that defining victory and then gets screwed out of it. I can certainly see WWE doing that as part of Randy Orton's return. Punk is far too talented to look like he's jobbing to JBL, and not convincing enough to look like a threat to Batista/Cena.

it's true to say that the only great storyline ATM on Raw is Jericho's and, unsurprisingly, they're playing the long game perfectly and I can see the denouement of that being at Mania, and Michaels retiring after it.

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Post #: 4339
RE: WWE - 26/7/2008 10:36:19 AM   
Frank Castle


Posts: 1844
Joined: 14/10/2005
From: Parts Unknown
 Hmm hhh vs great khali at summerslam! that will sell tickets!

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Post #: 4340
RE: WWE - 26/7/2008 11:20:18 AM   
Heywood


Posts: 1067
Joined: 1/6/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank Castle

Hmm hhh vs great khali at summerslam! that will sell tickets!


Not looking forward to that one at all. However, Cena vs Khali apparently drew surprisingly well (and turned out to be not too bad), so who knows? I guess they are pushing Khali due to his massive popularity in India. They want to exploit that huge market, hence this match at Summerslam. Still sucks though. Hopefully it will be a one-time deal and a convincing win for HHH while Edge and Taker have their blow-off match.

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Post #: 4341
RE: WWE - 26/7/2008 11:53:42 AM   
HIGHLANDER


Posts: 1264
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Great Khali vs HHH doesn't make me want to pay £15 for Summerslam on box office. Great American Bash was disapointing and nowhere near as good as last year's event. It was more a build up to Summerslam than anything else. I wish it had been on box office and (the apparently good) Night Of Champions had been free on Sky Sports instead.
Having said that the WWE product on the whole is good. ECW continues to impress with it's small but talented roster. I always watch it just to see the great talent that is Evan Bourne and that perfectly executed shooting star press he does. I never thought i'd say this but Mike Adamle is improving too on commentary.
 

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Post #: 4342
RE: WWE - 26/7/2008 9:33:43 PM   
coolstar

 

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Deadman is back to kick edge's ass in hell in the cell

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Post #: 4343
RE: WWE - 26/7/2008 10:35:05 PM   
theoriginalcynic


Posts: 4382
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Gotta believe Matt's gonna take the ECW title.  Pretty much see it as US Title then ECW title and then onto the main title now...

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Post #: 4344
RE: WWE - 27/7/2008 12:23:27 PM   
theoriginalcynic


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Just got around to watching SD - well fastforwarded most of it as usual.  What I watched was good stuff - excellent promo between Hardy and MVP.  Brian Kendrick getting a long overdue push - Benji ditto.  Good battle royle too - but WWE did that on purpose - made us think Jeff was gona win and then took it away again.  Khali vs HHH will be garbage and if the card doesn't improve no ppv for me...

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Post #: 4345
RE: WWE - 27/7/2008 2:47:26 PM   
Heywood


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Apart from the dubious decision to have Khali win the Battle Royale, I though SD was very good this week. Not sure why anyone would want to fast forward most of it (apart from the recaps). I like how they have set up some interesting feuds. MVP-Hardy and Big Show-Umaga should be fun to watch: hopefully they will have matches at Summerslam. As of this moment, we only have 3 matches for the PPV, so seems a bit early to be complaining about how poor the card is. I'm sure some of the Raw matches will be interesting.

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Post #: 4346
RE: WWE - 27/7/2008 8:25:45 PM   
Frank Castle


Posts: 1844
Joined: 14/10/2005
From: Parts Unknown
quote:

ORIGINAL: Heywood

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank Castle

Hmm hhh vs great khali at summerslam! that will sell tickets!


Not looking forward to that one at all. However, Cena vs Khali apparently drew surprisingly well (and turned out to be not too bad), so who knows? I guess they are pushing Khali due to his massive popularity in India. They want to exploit that huge market, hence this match at Summerslam. Still sucks though. Hopefully it will be a one-time deal and a convincing win for HHH while Edge and Taker have their blow-off match.



When was the last time khali actually beat anybody of meaning? with cena, khali was on a monster push who prob could have won. HHH will never lose to khali so its a meaningless match. this will really damage the buy rates for the ppv imo. Suppose the undertakers 100,000,000 return will add a few. 
Aparently whenever khali goes back to india they treat him like a god!!

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Post #: 4347
RE: WWE - 28/7/2008 2:03:40 AM   
theoriginalcynic


Posts: 4382
Joined: 10/4/2007
quote:

ORIGINAL: Heywood

Apart from the dubious decision to have Khali win the Battle Royale, I though SD was very good this week. Not sure why anyone would want to fast forward most of it (apart from the recaps). I like how they have set up some interesting feuds. MVP-Hardy and Big Show-Umaga should be fun to watch: hopefully they will have matches at Summerslam. As of this moment, we only have 3 matches for the PPV, so seems a bit early to be complaining about how poor the card is. I'm sure some of the Raw matches will be interesting.


Because if you get rid of the entrances - the from the vault match and the recaps the show is about 40mins long.  That's enough for me as I have Raw, ECW and ppv's to watch too.  And it's not too early to be complaining about the card! HHH vs Khali is crap... Show vs Umaga is a terrible idea too.   And Edge vs Taker again in a steel cage (yawn)

Lets hope the Raw side heats things up.  Jeff vs MVP should be decent but Jeff vs HHH would have sold more buy rates.

< Message edited by theoriginalcynic -- 28/7/2008 2:07:54 AM >

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Post #: 4348
RE: WWE - 28/7/2008 8:11:52 AM   
Heywood


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Have to say that a lot of people would disagree about Edge-Taker in Hell in a Cell being boring (the SD crowd certainly seemed excited). I also think Show-Umaga could be a lot of fun. As big guys go, both are very good workers. A lot of internet commentators have been positive about that match-up. Each to their own, I guess.

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Post #: 4349
RE: WWE - 28/7/2008 1:35:09 PM   
theoriginalcynic


Posts: 4382
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We'll see in time how good the PPV was received when the buy rates come in.  The crowd will always seem excited when they're in the arena.  Don't know if you've noticed but a huge percentage of the audience is now kids (again) Kids might love Umaga Show but the rest of us will have to put up with a slow big man encounter.  Edge vs Taker is a steel cage just seems very predictable...

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Post #: 4350
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