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RE: No Speed Racer No!

 
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RE: No Speed Racer No! - 19/5/2008 7:32:43 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23708
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W
I meant it more in the sense that calling his opinion "wrong" isn't really respecting it...

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Post #: 241
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 19/5/2008 11:12:39 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert

You're wasting your time Homer. Max is incapable of being objective about his beloved Wachowskis.

The fact that he referred to the positive reviews on RT without saying that those positive reviews are massively outnumbered by bad reviews is proof of that.

Speed Racer could have driven those races in the 3-wheeled van from Only Fools and Horses and Max would have declared it genius!


I think the real problem here is that you are looking for some excuse as to why someone has a different opinion to your own, and so you're using my like for the Wachowskis' past work as a quick-fire "solution" to try and invalidate my view.

Which says more about you than me, wouldn't you agree?




No, I'd say it shows that you cannot take any kind of harmless joking. Must be tough being so humorless but I guess that makes it much easier to enjoy Wachowski movies.

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Post #: 242
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 19/5/2008 11:15:32 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

It is indeed an oxymoron.


It's not.

Think about it.




No, it is an oxymoron.

An oxymoron is when contradictory terms appear in a sentence/figure of speech. You said you respected his opinion but described it as 'preposterous' which means 'utterly absurd' according to my dictionary widget.





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Post #: 243
RE: Speed Racer - 20/5/2008 1:27:37 PM   
Rockatanski


Posts: 133
Joined: 21/12/2005
Here's what I thought of it....
Speed Racer/2008/The Wachowski BrothersPlot/Thoughts: Nobody asked for it, but we sure got it anyway. Speed Racer the Movie! The Wachowski's show us what 100 million dollars looks like if you flush it down a day-glo toilet.The Good- Good news for Satan. Here's that movie you needed to run in hell's multiplexes for the next billion years.The Bad-Where to begin here. (And how to seperate the bad from the ugly...?) Well I didn't like a single thing in this flick. Nothing appealed to me. I know this flick was meant for the original cartoon's fans, and the few that are still breathing I'm sure helped push this BOMB to it's outstanding 20 million dollar take last weekend. When Indiana Jones 4 hits theaters, Speed Racer will officially fade into nothingness and become the commercial flop of the Summer film season it was designed to be. The Washi*tski Brothers further implant themselves into whatever weird, psychotic, cash-burning, cross-dressing wreck of a career they've set themselves upon. The first 15 minutes of this film I wanted to stick a bubble-gun in my mouth and die with my lungs burning and choking on bubbles.The Ugly-First and foremost John Goodman is easily the miscast of the last 50 years of film. The Atkins diet hasn't been kind to Johnny. He's not alone either. Susan Sarandon's given the biggest nothing role since.... (That was a Darth Vader "since...." You say it then break off all communication and leave immediately.) The car races are dumb. They have no geography. It's just cars spinning in circles, and alot, and I do mean ALOT of hydraulic-hopping over stuff.The movie looks.... It's like a gay-bomb went off in my mouth and it was full of Skittles of every sort, color, and flavor. You know a movie's bad when it relies on a monkey for it's laughs. And that this very monkey, (Chim-Chim!) ends up hurling his own poop in this movie really helps solidify this as a sh*t idea, taken to financial extremes, and finally flung directly into the eyes of it's dwindling audience... 

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Post #: 244
RE: Speed Racer - 20/5/2008 1:39:41 PM   
Vitamin F

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Norn Ireland, so it is
Uh-oh, prepare to be disagreed with at a phenomenally long-winded rate...

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Post #: 245
RE: Speed Racer - 20/5/2008 1:56:20 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rockatanski

Here's what I thought of it....
Speed Racer/2008/The Wachowski BrothersPlot/Thoughts: Nobody asked for it, but we sure got it anyway. Speed Racer the Movie! The Wachowski's show us what 100 million dollars looks like if you flush it down a day-glo toilet.The Good- Good news for Satan. Here's that movie you needed to run in hell's multiplexes for the next billion years.The Bad-Where to begin here. (And how to seperate the bad from the ugly...?) Well I didn't like a single thing in this flick. Nothing appealed to me. I know this flick was meant for the original cartoon's fans, and the few that are still breathing I'm sure helped push this BOMB to it's outstanding 20 million dollar take last weekend. When Indiana Jones 4 hits theaters, Speed Racer will officially fade into nothingness and become the commercial flop of the Summer film season it was designed to be. The Washi*tski Brothers further implant themselves into whatever weird, psychotic, cash-burning, cross-dressing wreck of a career they've set themselves upon. The first 15 minutes of this film I wanted to stick a bubble-gun in my mouth and die with my lungs burning and choking on bubbles.The Ugly-First and foremost John Goodman is easily the miscast of the last 50 years of film. The Atkins diet hasn't been kind to Johnny. He's not alone either. Susan Sarandon's given the biggest nothing role since.... (That was a Darth Vader "since...." You say it then break off all communication and leave immediately.) The car races are dumb. They have no geography. It's just cars spinning in circles, and alot, and I do mean ALOT of hydraulic-hopping over stuff.The movie looks.... It's like a gay-bomb went off in my mouth and it was full of Skittles of every sort, color, and flavor. You know a movie's bad when it relies on a monkey for it's laughs. And that this very monkey, (Chim-Chim!) ends up hurling his own poop in this movie really helps solidify this as a sh*t idea, taken to financial extremes, and finally flung directly into the eyes of it's dwindling audience... 


lol brilliant

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Post #: 246
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 20/5/2008 5:43:52 PM   
max314


Posts: 2746
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

I meant it more in the sense that calling his opinion "wrong" isn't really respecting it...


I'm saying that my opinion of his opinion is that it's wrong.  But I nevertheless respect it, and I respect his right to have it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert

No, I'd say it shows that you cannot take any kind of harmless joking. Must be tough being so humorless but I guess that makes it much easier to enjoy Wachowski movies.


It's not the "joke" part of your statement I'm taking issue with.  It's the underlying attack on the validity of my opinions that I'm highlighting.

Just because you stab someone with a smile on your face, doesn't make the attack any less real.

quote:

No, it is an oxymoron.

An oxymoron is when contradictory terms appear in a sentence/figure of speech. You said you respected his opinion but described it as 'preposterous' which means 'utterly absurd' according to my dictionary widget.


So I'm not allowed to have an opinion about someone else's opinion, and still make a civil declaration of respect?

I suppose a "respectful disagreement" is also an oxymoron by your standards, then.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rockatanski

Here's what I thought of it....
Speed Racer/2008/The Wachowski BrothersPlot/Thoughts: Nobody asked for it, but we sure got it anyway. Speed Racer the Movie! The Wachowski's show us what 100 million dollars looks like if you flush it down a day-glo toilet.The Good- Good news for Satan. Here's that movie you needed to run in hell's multiplexes for the next billion years.The Bad-Where to begin here. (And how to seperate the bad from the ugly...?) Well I didn't like a single thing in this flick. Nothing appealed to me. I know this flick was meant for the original cartoon's fans, and the few that are still breathing I'm sure helped push this BOMB to it's outstanding 20 million dollar take last weekend. When Indiana Jones 4 hits theaters, Speed Racer will officially fade into nothingness and become the commercial flop of the Summer film season it was designed to be. The Washi*tski Brothers further implant themselves into whatever weird, psychotic, cash-burning, cross-dressing wreck of a career they've set themselves upon. The first 15 minutes of this film I wanted to stick a bubble-gun in my mouth and die with my lungs burning and choking on bubbles.The Ugly-First and foremost John Goodman is easily the miscast of the last 50 years of film. The Atkins diet hasn't been kind to Johnny. He's not alone either. Susan Sarandon's given the biggest nothing role since.... (That was a Darth Vader "since...." You say it then break off all communication and leave immediately.) The car races are dumb. They have no geography. It's just cars spinning in circles, and alot, and I do mean ALOT of hydraulic-hopping over stuff.The movie looks.... It's like a gay-bomb went off in my mouth and it was full of Skittles of every sort, color, and flavor. You know a movie's bad when it relies on a monkey for it's laughs. And that this very monkey, (Chim-Chim!) ends up hurling his own poop in this movie really helps solidify this as a sh*t idea, taken to financial extremes, and finally flung directly into the eyes of it's dwindling audience...


Well, that's...interesting.  Sounds like you had a lot of pent up hate for the Wachowskis before even going into see Speed Racer.  Lemme guess: the feeling of betrayal left by Reloaded and Revolutions, right?

The main reasons for the movie's poor box office are definitely a combination of the film being placed on the "Death Slot" (i.e. second May weekend), a confused marketing campaign, and the fact that it's been sandwiched between monsters like Iron Man, Prince Caspian and Crystal Skull.

What's encouraging is the overwhelmingly positive audience response, and the number of people who were pleasantly surprised by the film.  The problem is that there aren't enough people going in the first place, due to the reasons listed above.  And any positive word of mouth won't make much of an impact with other huge properties slamming into the box office on and around Speed Racer.

From the looks of things, Speed Racer will probably end up becoming something of a cult classic.  And I suspect a lot of critics who gave the film negative reviews are going to wish they hadn't within a year or two.  But that's not what the Brothers, Joel Silver, nor Warner Brothers want to hear.  It also doesn't bode well for the studio taking risks on future ambitious projects.

A commercial disappointment for sure, but I think it will pick up momentum on the home video market and will be remembered for years to come as an influencial work.

< Message edited by max314 -- 20/5/2008 5:45:25 PM >


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Post #: 247
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 20/5/2008 5:54:23 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23708
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W
Max, I'm not saying you can't have an opinion. Nevertheless, it is still disrespectful to brand somebody's review "preposterous" just because you disagree. I didn't enjoy it, but I didn't call your review "wrong" when I read it.


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Post #: 248
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 20/5/2008 6:00:59 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314


So I'm not allowed to have an opinion about someone else's opinion, and still make a civil declaration of respect?

I suppose a "respectful disagreement" is also an oxymoron by your standards, then.



No, you're being ridiculous. A disagreement and being respectful are not contradictory. Calling someone opinion 'preposterous' and then saying you respect their opinion is.


It's not very complicated, Max.

Imagine The Architect explaining it to you, if that helps.



< Message edited by Wilbert -- 20/5/2008 6:04:31 PM >


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RE: No Speed Racer No! - 20/5/2008 6:09:25 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2616
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

I meant it more in the sense that calling his opinion "wrong" isn't really respecting it...


I'm saying that my opinion of his opinion is that it's wrong.  But I nevertheless respect it, and I respect his right to have it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert

No, I'd say it shows that you cannot take any kind of harmless joking. Must be tough being so humorless but I guess that makes it much easier to enjoy Wachowski movies.


It's not the "joke" part of your statement I'm taking issue with.  It's the underlying attack on the validity of my opinions that I'm highlighting.

Just because you stab someone with a smile on your face, doesn't make the attack any less real.

quote:

No, it is an oxymoron.

An oxymoron is when contradictory terms appear in a sentence/figure of speech. You said you respected his opinion but described it as 'preposterous' which means 'utterly absurd' according to my dictionary widget.


So I'm not allowed to have an opinion about someone else's opinion, and still make a civil declaration of respect?

I suppose a "respectful disagreement" is also an oxymoron by your standards, then.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rockatanski

Here's what I thought of it....
Speed Racer/2008/The Wachowski BrothersPlot/Thoughts: Nobody asked for it, but we sure got it anyway. Speed Racer the Movie! The Wachowski's show us what 100 million dollars looks like if you flush it down a day-glo toilet.The Good- Good news for Satan. Here's that movie you needed to run in hell's multiplexes for the next billion years.The Bad-Where to begin here. (And how to seperate the bad from the ugly...?) Well I didn't like a single thing in this flick. Nothing appealed to me. I know this flick was meant for the original cartoon's fans, and the few that are still breathing I'm sure helped push this BOMB to it's outstanding 20 million dollar take last weekend. When Indiana Jones 4 hits theaters, Speed Racer will officially fade into nothingness and become the commercial flop of the Summer film season it was designed to be. The Washi*tski Brothers further implant themselves into whatever weird, psychotic, cash-burning, cross-dressing wreck of a career they've set themselves upon. The first 15 minutes of this film I wanted to stick a bubble-gun in my mouth and die with my lungs burning and choking on bubbles.The Ugly-First and foremost John Goodman is easily the miscast of the last 50 years of film. The Atkins diet hasn't been kind to Johnny. He's not alone either. Susan Sarandon's given the biggest nothing role since.... (That was a Darth Vader "since...." You say it then break off all communication and leave immediately.) The car races are dumb. They have no geography. It's just cars spinning in circles, and alot, and I do mean ALOT of hydraulic-hopping over stuff.The movie looks.... It's like a gay-bomb went off in my mouth and it was full of Skittles of every sort, color, and flavor. You know a movie's bad when it relies on a monkey for it's laughs. And that this very monkey, (Chim-Chim!) ends up hurling his own poop in this movie really helps solidify this as a sh*t idea, taken to financial extremes, and finally flung directly into the eyes of it's dwindling audience...


Well, that's...interesting.  Sounds like you had a lot of pent up hate for the Wachowskis before even going into see Speed Racer.  Lemme guess: the feeling of betrayal left by Reloaded and Revolutions, right?

The main reasons for the movie's poor box office are definitely a combination of the film being placed on the "Death Slot" (i.e. second May weekend), a confused marketing campaign, and the fact that it's been sandwiched between monsters like Iron Man, Prince Caspian and Crystal Skull.

What's encouraging is the overwhelmingly positive audience response, and the number of people who were pleasantly surprised by the film.  The problem is that there aren't enough people going in the first place, due to the reasons listed above.  And any positive word of mouth won't make much of an impact with other huge properties slamming into the box office on and around Speed Racer.

From the looks of things, Speed Racer will probably end up becoming something of a cult classic.  And I suspect a lot of critics who gave the film negative reviews are going to wish they hadn't within a year or two.  But that's not what the Brothers, Joel Silver, nor Warner Brothers want to hear.  It also doesn't bode well for the studio taking risks on future ambitious projects.

A commercial disappointment for sure, but I think it will pick up momentum on the home video market and will be remembered for years to come as an influencial work.


Okay, it can't be argued (even by you Max) that the film has tanked badly.  In fact worse than any other big budget film I can remember.   I'm not sure that the second weekend in May is a 'death slot' by any means and I wouldn't begin to beleive that Prince Caspian is a box office 'monster' and Indy 4 hasn't been released yet, so I don't really buy that those films are having an effect on Speed Racer's box office. 

I just think the project was doomed from the offset.  No one was demanding a Speed Racer project,  let alone one that tried to be as faithful as this.  Kudos for the Wachowski's for trying, but it just doesn't work.  The acting is poor, really poor, and neither that nor the plotting or script issues this film has can be attributed to the 'cartoon' nature of the film.   I simply refuse to beleive that the directors and producers wanted a poor script and wooden acting.  It simply doesn't work.  The 'live action' cartoon thing has been tried before and it doesn't translate.  The visuals during the races are nice, some even great, but by the time I've seen it twice during the film I was getting bored of it.  Possibly even overwhelmed by the sheer onslaught of colour, to the point where I was hating it! 

The issue of runtime has been brought up as criticism and to be honest I don't think that's the problem, it was more issue with the convuluted and piss poor way of getting through the scenes of exposition.  It was a pretty straightforward story told cackhandedly.  I don't think a 2 hour plus run time is necessarily a bad thing, only if you're filling it with shite.

Max, where are you seeing this overwhelmingly positive public audience response?  I just aint seeing it!  The screening I was in was empty, 7 people total.  It's a mid afternoon showing so I wouldn't expect it to be rammed, but this is what I'm being told about all screenings since it opened.  I'm friendly with the staff at my local cinema and was asking about it.  Every single member of staff said it was going down shit, even with kids.  Even so far as one guy telling me he'd not seen so many kids walking out of a family film for years. 

I've got to say, the positive to negative ratio on this one seems very much in the negative to me.  But hey, we all know that box office and critical acclaim never account for taste and some classics flop, right?  I'm guessing this is where you mention Blade Runner and 2001 again, Max.  The number of people pleasantly surprised? Where? Where is this info coming from Max?  Also, what makes you think it's going to become a cult sucess?  Why will critics wish they had given it a good score? No they won't... they didn't like it, and with good reason, so why would they re-evaluate it as some cult classic?  I don't get why you would think this.  Seriously, I'm not having a dig, I just can't fathom what info you have that no else does, that makes you think like this. 

I went in expecting to hate it, I left indifferent.  The constant excess was too much, the poor acting grated, that kid and his fucking monkey made me want to hurt kittens.  In it's defense it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, it gets a 'meh' and a 2 out of 5 from me simply for keeping me occupied and for some nice effects (but they're certainly not groundbreaking!)  I've seen far, far worse but I expect far, far better from the Wachowski's.  This project was doomed from the off and they should've stayed clear.

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RE: No Speed Racer No! - 20/5/2008 6:17:01 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2616
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314
A commercial disappointment for sure, but I think it will pick up momentum on the home video market and will be remembered for years to come as an influencial work.


Also this quote Max... why? Remembered as an influential work? Influential on what? I sure as shit know what it will influence, the budget on the next Wachowski picture. 

Again Max, I must point out ( I feel I must because you do seem to take the Wachowski's ever so seriously) that I'm not having a dig or trying to pull holes in your argument.  I'm glad you enjoyed it and I know there are people on here that were pleasantly surprised, but you can't ignore the fact that the vast majority of critical and public response to the film is a negative one.  Your constant defense of the Wachowski's often makes your arguments seem a bit blinkered and one sided, you claim they aren't and that you're being critical, but to claim Speed Racer 'officially' rocks, and that it's a five star film is just crazy.  It's flawed to high heaven!  I honestly don't see anything in the film that could possible suggest it is either a) a cult classic in waiting or b) an influential film that will be remembered and re-evaluated in future. 

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Post #: 251
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 20/5/2008 6:24:56 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

quote:

ORIGINAL: max314
A commercial disappointment for sure, but I think it will pick up momentum on the home video market and will be remembered for years to come as an influencial work.


Also this quote Max... why?


Because he has a man-crush on The Wachowskis and wants them to adopt him.

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Post #: 252
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 20/5/2008 6:30:32 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2616
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert


quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

quote:

ORIGINAL: max314
A commercial disappointment for sure, but I think it will pick up momentum on the home video market and will be remembered for years to come as an influencial work.


Also this quote Max... why?


Because he has a man-crush on The Wachowskis and wants them to adopt him.


Harsh.  Preposterous. Probably True.

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Post #: 253
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 20/5/2008 7:04:59 PM   
Stewie_Griffin


Posts: 6968
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: St.Albans, Hertfordshire
I think Max was right when he/she said that it could find a slightly bigger audience on the home entertainment market, But let's face it. It will take a good few years for it to break even. Besides weather it's on the big or small screen, Speed Racer will just merely be okay, Passable entertainment.  As for influential?, How influential can a bona-fide box office bomb be?. It's not like you hear people say "Yeah i was really influenced by Heaven's Gate".
Besides the concept of an entire world constructed by blue screen visual effects has been done before Speed Racer and better. For example, Sin City and 300.

< Message edited by Stewie_Griffin -- 20/5/2008 7:32:13 PM >


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Post #: 254
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 20/5/2008 7:19:15 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
You know what, I'm going to have that as my signature... 

Edit: Done.


< Message edited by homersimpson_esq -- 20/5/2008 7:22:24 PM >


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Post #: 255
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 21/5/2008 8:48:19 AM   
Heskin Radiophonic


Posts: 851
Joined: 16/5/2007
From: The Drones Club
quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper
I just think the project was doomed from the offset...

It is an unwritten law of movie making that all films about motorsports must be even more dull than your average F1 race.


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Post #: 256
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 21/5/2008 10:30:22 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
I put this in the John Locke thread, but it has relevance here too, and I can't help posting it again...




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Post #: 257
Go Speed Racer Go.... - 21/5/2008 4:33:26 PM   
skeletonjack


Posts: 1299
Joined: 30/9/2005
and never return.

This film was dreadful. Annoying to look at and way too long.
The kids in the audience (3 of them) all got up and left within the first hour, if only I'd followed suit. There is so much to hate here, but I'll save my largest chunk of hatred for the infuriating cutaways to that bloody awful fat kid and his chimp.
Horrendous: 1 star.

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Post #: 258
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 21/5/2008 5:22:34 PM   
LEEJGM


Posts: 1041
Joined: 21/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

I put this in the John Locke thread, but it has relevance here too, and I can't help posting it again...

[image]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8077/lostracertb5.jpg[/image]



Great work Homer, as always.




I must say, as much as I wanted to hate Speed Racer, largely due to Max's attitude and blind love for all things Wachowski.  However, I didn't find it as bad as many have said on here.  I don't really want to go into any depth here, because most of what I think has already been posted by others.   

I enjoyed the race scenes.  The effects were great (but not ground breaking) and there was a real sense of speed and excitement about them.  On the flip side, I didn't enjoy anything else really.  I found the characters bland, the acting wooden and the script clunky.  The attempted humour, including the shit flinging chimp and the annoying kid, was not up my alley at all.  I believe that a film is only too long if you realise how long it is while watching it.  I did find myself looking at my watch on more than one occasion, waiting for the next race scene.

I think Empire have been about right with their review to be honest. I think 2 stars is maybe a little harsh and three stars is maybe a little generous, so I'd float somewhere in between. 

Certainly not a 5 star movie in any way, shape or form, but not the disaster I thought it would be either.

< Message edited by LEEJGM -- 22/5/2008 8:58:47 AM >

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Post #: 259
2nd Time Around - 22/5/2008 9:51:40 AM   
Karl Crutchley


Posts: 793
Joined: 25/6/2007
From: Grey Britain
Saw it again last night (courtesy of a certain soft drinks brand promotion), & still enjoyed it. I understand that some people don't like it, but to be honest, I don't care, because I do like it - very much. That last race is spectacular in a full digital presentation. Looking forward to the DVD release.

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Post #: 260
- 22/5/2008 12:46:02 PM   
jammyemma

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/4/2007
Being a 30 year old woman and therefore probably not part of the target market for this, I wasn't sure whether I was going to like it or not. I'm very pleased to say that I loved it! Okay, the storyline was rubbish, the female characters had very little to do except look pretty and the small child/monkey were very irritating, I sat there with my mouth open for most of it as it looked so fantastic. Definitely worth seeing on the big screen.

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Post #: 261
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 23/5/2008 9:41:58 AM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10444
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

I put this in the John Locke thread, but it has relevance here too, and I can't help posting it again...

[image]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8077/lostracertb5.jpg[/image]



hahahaha

Is it possible to give the movie zero stars.  Its quite honestly the worst thing I've ever seen.  Its just a question of how you can spend an enormous amout of money making a cartoon. 

Where the fantastic Who framed Roger Rabbit? takes cartoon characters and transplants them into a human world, Speed Racer takes human characters and transposes them to a cartoon world.  And what it brings with it is a 7 minute cartoon plot eeked out, then stretched thinner, then eeked until it snaps in several places to reach film length.

I guess the only thing that is surprising me in this thread is all the reports of kids walking out of the movie, cos I was imagining that if it found an audience it was gonna be in the 7 to 10 year olds category. 

I'd never heard of Speed Racer before and I never want to hear of Speed Racer again. 

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 262
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 23/5/2008 9:43:29 AM   
Heskin Radiophonic


Posts: 851
Joined: 16/5/2007
From: The Drones Club
So you liked it then? 

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Post #: 263
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 23/5/2008 1:15:00 PM   
max314


Posts: 2746
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Max, I'm not saying you can't have an opinion. Nevertheless, it is still disrespectful to brand somebody's review "preposterous" just because you disagree. I didn't enjoy it, but I didn't call your review "wrong" when I read it.



I didn't criticise his whole review.  In fact, I told him I appreciated and respected that he took the time to write it instead of just saying "it sucks".

I simply thought that his shockingly low final score of 26% was, in my view, a preposterous one.

Now please, let's move on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert

No, you're being ridiculous. A disagreement and being respectful are not contradictory. Calling someone opinion 'preposterous' and then saying you respect their opinion is.


It's not very complicated, Max.

Imagine The Architect explaining it to you, if that helps.


I'd like the Architect to explain to me why you find it so difficult to understand how one can respect another's opinion whilst vehemently disagreeing with it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Okay, it can't be argued (even by you Max) that the film has tanked badly.  In fact worse than any other big budget film I can remember.   I'm not sure that the second weekend in May is a 'death slot' by any means and I wouldn't begin to beleive that Prince Caspian is a box office 'monster' and Indy 4 hasn't been released yet, so I don't really buy that those films are having an effect on Speed Racer's box office.


Why the fucking hell would I argue that Speed Racer hasn't tanked?  It's only just passed the $50 million mark.  Worldwide.

It's a complete bomb, and its contemporary releases are only part of the reason.  Other reasons include a confused marketing campaign and a lot of poor pre-release reviews.  General audiences seem to be coming out of the movie very pleased overall, but the positive word of mouth this late in the game won't do much to change the tide given all its existing obstacles.

quote:

I just think the project was doomed from the offset.  No one was demanding a Speed Racer project,  let alone one that tried to be as faithful as this.  Kudos for the Wachowski's for trying, but it just doesn't work.  The acting is poor, really poor, and neither that nor the plotting or script issues this film has can be attributed to the 'cartoon' nature of the film.   I simply refuse to beleive that the directors and producers wanted a poor script and wooden acting.  It simply doesn't work.  The 'live action' cartoon thing has been tried before and it doesn't translate.  The visuals during the races are nice, some even great, but by the time I've seen it twice during the film I was getting bored of it.  Possibly even overwhelmed by the sheer onslaught of colour, to the point where I was hating it!

The issue of runtime has been brought up as criticism and to be honest I don't think that's the problem, it was more issue with the convuluted and piss poor way of getting through the scenes of exposition.  It was a pretty straightforward story told cackhandedly.  I don't think a 2 hour plus run time is necessarily a bad thing, only if you're filling it with shite.

Max, where are you seeing this overwhelmingly positive public audience response?  I just aint seeing it!  The screening I was in was empty, 7 people total.  It's a mid afternoon showing so I wouldn't expect it to be rammed, but this is what I'm being told about all screenings since it opened.  I'm friendly with the staff at my local cinema and was asking about it.  Every single member of staff said it was going down shit, even with kids.  Even so far as one guy telling me he'd not seen so many kids walking out of a family film for years.


Well that's surprising since the Cinema Score test rating was at an impressive A- and the RT Community rating over at Rotten Tomatoes is up at 77%.

But maybe you're right.  It would definitely account for the abysmal box office.

I don't understand it, though.  The film zipped through its 2 hour plus runtime as if it were a hundred minute film and riveted me from start to finish.  And I'm obviously not the only one who thinks so.  It's unfortunate that it's not the consensus on what is clearly a very risky movie on practically every level, and is actually ridiculously entertaining.

quote:

I've got to say, the positive to negative ratio on this one seems very much in the negative to me.  But hey, we all know that box office and critical acclaim never account for taste and some classics flop, right?  I'm guessing this is where you mention Blade Runner and 2001 again, Max.  The number of people pleasantly surprised? Where? Where is this info coming from Max?  Also, what makes you think it's going to become a cult sucess?  Why will critics wish they had given it a good score? No they won't... they didn't like it, and with good reason, so why would they re-evaluate it as some cult classic?  I don't get why you would think this.  Seriously, I'm not having a dig, I just can't fathom what info you have that no else does, that makes you think like this.


Because it's good!

If you want a list of people who were pleasantly surprised by the film, just skim through this very thread.

quote:

I went in expecting to hate it, I left indifferent.  The constant excess was too much, the poor acting grated, that kid and his fucking monkey made me want to hurt kittens.  In it's defense it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, it gets a 'meh' and a 2 out of 5 from me simply for keeping me occupied and for some nice effects (but they're certainly not groundbreaking!)  I've seen far, far worse but I expect far, far better from the Wachowski's.  This project was doomed from the off and they should've stayed clear.


The effects are groundbreaking not because we're seeing yet more CGI polygons, but because of the way in which it was used.  The visual vocabulary of anim.  The complete liberation of the camera.

I found the film was simple in the best possible way, was visually stunning, and had loads of heart.  That's what made it so worth watching.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Also this quote Max... why? Remembered as an influential work? Influential on what? I sure as shit know what it will influence, the budget on the next Wachowski picture.

Again Max, I must point out ( I feel I must because you do seem to take the Wachowski's ever so seriously) that I'm not having a dig or trying to pull holes in your argument.  I'm glad you enjoyed it and I know there are people on here that were pleasantly surprised, but you can't ignore the fact that the vast majority of critical and public response to the film is a negative one.  Your constant defense of the Wachowski's often makes your arguments seem a bit blinkered and one sided, you claim they aren't and that you're being critical, but to claim Speed Racer 'officially' rocks, and that it's a five star film is just crazy.  It's flawed to high heaven!  I honestly don't see anything in the film that could possible suggest it is either a) a cult classic in waiting or b) an influential film that will be remembered and re-evaluated in future.


I've gotta get round to changing my sig (the now established critical response just doesn't hold up to the "official" claim anymore), but my praise of the film has fuck all to do with any fondness I may have for the Wachowskis.

The fact of the matter is that I am a fan of their WORK.  As long as their WORK continues to blow me away, I will continue to say so.  But if they make a film that I don't like, I will not hesitate to say so.

That's not to say that I don't look forward to their work.  Like so many directors out there, the prospect of future Wachowski projects are always source of great excitement.  But I also don't go out of my way to like it "just because".  Whether you choose to believe it or not, I'm not actually capable of doing that.

If it helps you to understand that, just take a browse through my past comments - there are films that a lot of people love that I absolutely hate and vice versa.  I just can't bring myself to be anything but brutally honest about what I think about films...because I love and respect the medium more than any single director or directional duo out there.  Including the Wachowskis.

As for Speed Racer, I do see the potential of a cult classic in there.  The more I think about it, the more I think the film really was more niche than the studio must have thought.  I mean, there's bone crunching violence, little kids giving the finger, and some less-than-kiddy language that you honestly wouldn't associate with a kid's picture.  And all this mixed in with a weird, cheesy vibe that seems out of place in even the most kitchy Pixar movie.

Ultimately, I think the film was really for people like the Wachowskis.  People who were fans of the original series in the '60s.  I'm sure the Wachowskis hoped that more people would like the film, but I'm also sure they knew the kind of risk they were taking.

Some experiments work.  Some don't.  But as long as the Wachowskis keep experimenting, I'm sure I'll be at the cinema to see what they've made.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert

Because he has a man-crush on The Wachowskis and wants them to adopt him.


I know you're trying to explain away my alternative opinions with a neat "Wachowski-lover" label, but if the Wachowskis make a shit film, I'll be the first one to say it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stewie_Griffin

I think Max was right when he/she said that it could find a slightly bigger audience on the home entertainment market, But let's face it. It will take a good few years for it to break even. Besides weather it's on the big or small screen, Speed Racer will just merely be okay, Passable entertainment.  As for influential?, How influential can a bona-fide box office bomb be?. It's not like you hear people say "Yeah i was really influenced by Heaven's Gate".


Box office bombs have been influencial in the past.  My oft-cited Blade Runner being a case in point.

And upon further thought, I'm starting to wonder if Speed Racer will really do that well on the home video market.  I mean, people here are saying that they saw kids walking out and stuff.  And people like you are saying they thought it was only passable entertainment.  As such, I wonder how many people will actually go out of their way to buy it.

We'll see.

quote:

Besides the concept of an entire world constructed by blue screen visual effects has been done before Speed Racer and better. For example, Sin City and 300.


Neither Sin City nor 300 took the hyperstylised greenscreen sub-genre to the extremes that Speed Racer took it.

Compared to Speed Racer as overall films, I found Sin City's style of essentially having multiple connected shorts interesting as an idea but a little lacking in terms of emotional punch.  The story never really got a chance to settle.  And 300 was all payoff and no set up.  Like one big, bloated third act to a film that never was.  As an overall film, Speed Racer played better.  And it did more to change the cinematic vocabulary than either of its aforementioned greenscreen predecessors.

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

You know what, I'm going to have that as my signature...

Edit: Done.


Well, do it right then:

"Harsh.  Wrong.  Preposterous."

quote:

ORIGINAL: LEEJGM

Great work Homer, as always.




I must say, as much as I wanted to hate Speed Racer, largely due to Max's attitude and blind love for all things Wachowski.


Okay, let's clear this up.

"Attitude"?

When you have a thousand people all coming at you with an arrogant overconfidence in everything they say, you have to counter in kind.  But if people want to have a more intelligent type of discussion, I'm absolutely delighted to have it.

As for "blind love for all things Wachowski", it's simply not true.  I don't know how I'm supposed to prove it.  I'm not going to force myself to dislike something I like just to make a point.  I'm a fan of their work, yes.  But I'm a fan of their WORK.  If they make a shit film, I'll say so.  If they kick ass, I'll say so.

So enough of this "blind love" bullshit, please.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Crutchley

Saw it again last night (courtesy of a certain soft drinks brand promotion), & still enjoyed it. I understand that some people don't like it, but to be honest, I don't care, because I do like it - very much. That last race is spectacular in a full digital presentation. Looking forward to the DVD release.


I know!  I'm getting tired of having to rewatch all those Quicktime clips online.

Maybe the shitty box office is actually a good thing...

quote:

ORIGINAL: jammyemma

Being a 30 year old woman and therefore probably not part of the target market for this, I wasn't sure whether I was going to like it or not. I'm very pleased to say that I loved it! Okay, the storyline was rubbish, the female characters had very little to do except look pretty and the small child/monkey were very irritating, I sat there with my mouth open for most of it as it looked so fantastic. Definitely worth seeing on the big screen.


Glad you liked it.


_____________________________

MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

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Post #: 264
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 23/5/2008 1:31:45 PM   
Vitamin F

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Norn Ireland, so it is
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

The complete liberation of the camera.



Judging by some other posts, 'the complete liberation of the cinema' unfortunately seems more appropriate...

< Message edited by Vitamin F -- 23/5/2008 1:34:54 PM >

(in reply to max314)
Post #: 265
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 23/5/2008 1:47:16 PM   
max314


Posts: 2746
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vitamin F

Judging by some other posts, 'the complete liberation of the cinema' unfortunately seems more appropriate...


You betcha.  More room to put yer feet up


_____________________________

MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

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Post #: 266
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 23/5/2008 4:42:18 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert

No, you're being ridiculous. A disagreement and being respectful are not contradictory. Calling someone opinion 'preposterous' and then saying you respect their opinion is.


It's not very complicated, Max.

Imagine The Architect explaining it to you, if that helps.


I'd like the Architect to explain to me why you find it so difficult to understand how one can respect another's opinion whilst vehemently disagreeing with it.



You can't respect an opinion you find preposterous.

You can respect someone's right to have an opinion you find preposterous, but that's not what you said.

Wachowski-lover!



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Post #: 267
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 23/5/2008 6:05:20 PM   
max314


Posts: 2746
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert

You can't respect an opinion you find preposterous.

You can respect someone's right to have an opinion you find preposterous, but that's not what you said.


You gave in depth reasons why you have the opinion you have.

So I respect it.

But the ultimate score you came to was, in my view, "wrong", "harsh" and "preposterous".  The film simply couldn't be "26%" bad.

But I still respect it because of the time you took.  If you'd just said "it sucks" and walked off, that would be a different matter.  Then I probably wouldn't respect your opinion, although I might respect your right to have an opinion.  Which should be a given anyway.


_____________________________

MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

(in reply to Wilbert)
Post #: 268
RE: Speed Racer - 23/5/2008 6:14:50 PM   
Captain Black


Posts: 6731
Joined: 30/9/2005
Come on guys, enough's enough. Stay on the topic of the film. If you want to continue this back and forth then do so over PM.

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Post #: 269
RE: No Speed Racer No! - 23/5/2008 6:30:27 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert

You can't respect an opinion you find preposterous.

You can respect someone's right to have an opinion you find preposterous, but that's not what you said.


You gave in depth reasons why you have the opinion you have.

So I respect it.

But the ultimate score you came to was, in my view, "wrong", "harsh" and "preposterous". The film simply couldn't be "26%" bad.



Well, It wasn't me that received the now famous "Harsh. Preposterous. Wrong." line.

And I agree, 26% is harsh.

50% is more like it.

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Post #: 270
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