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RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 7:14:51 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18188
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:


With the amount of shit I've had to put up with from people like you over the past 5 years, I'm the one who should be "infuriated" if anyone.  And yet here I am, in the middle of my exams, taking time out to address your points in an intelligent and coherent way.



And you are on here talking about what is essentially a popcorn film?  There are more important things especially when they could have a significant impact on your future.

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Post #: 91
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 7:32:01 PM   
max314


Posts: 2744
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

Oops, I must have missed that amid all the swearing and insults peppered about most of your posts.


My apologies, Larry.  Maybe I should follow your example of  incessantly snide, underhanded, sarcastic remarks instead.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

And you are on here talking about what is essentially a popcorn film?  There are more important things especially when they could have a significant impact on your future.


Yes, but:

a)  I'm so excited about this that I won't be able to concentrate properly on my work until I've seen it; and
b)  When I'm not busy being the Master of the Matrix, I'm the Master of Procrastination

_____________________________

MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

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Post #: 92
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 7:39:26 PM   
Larry of Arabia

 

Posts: 7576
Joined: 28/2/2007
From: Turtle Island
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

Oops, I must have missed that amid all the swearing and insults peppered about most of your posts.


My apologies, Larry.  Maybe I should follow your example of  incessantly snide, underhanded, sarcastic remarks instead.



No, I think you'll find you've got those covered too, Einstein. 

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Post #: 93
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 7:53:25 PM   
max314


Posts: 2744
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

No, I think you'll find you've got those covered too, Einstein. 





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MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

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Post #: 94
One Wild Ride - 8/5/2008 8:33:13 PM   
fang


Posts: 34
Joined: 3/1/2008
From: Cheltenham
I previewed our digital copy at work this morning (8th may) and thought it was insanely good fun. Ideally watch this ripped to the tits on coke* and revells.
*Cola natch ;)

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Post #: 95
RE: One Wild Ride - 8/5/2008 8:35:37 PM   
max314


Posts: 2744
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
Great to hear

I honestly can't wait for this any longer.  I need Speed Racer NOW!!!


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MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

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Post #: 96
RE: One Wild Ride - 8/5/2008 8:38:14 PM   
Mr Terrific


Posts: 1639
Joined: 15/7/2006
Well, its a choice between this and Doomsday.
Both look to be at most three star films.
While I have never watched the Speed Racer cartoons, I am a fan of Anime and Manga and am tempted to check it out. Not sure about spending big bucks for IMAX though.

< Message edited by Mr Terrific -- 8/5/2008 8:39:13 PM >


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Post #: 97
RE: One Wild Ride - 8/5/2008 9:19:34 PM   
Mojo


Posts: 6053
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The CIC, next to the old man.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Terrific

Well, its a choice between this and Doomsday.
Both look to be at most three star films.
While I have never watched the Speed Racer cartoons, I am a fan of Anime and Manga and am tempted to check it out. Not sure about spending big bucks for IMAX though.


Doomsday, you know it to be true. Support the British filmmakers of this world!


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Post #: 98
RE: One Wild Ride - 8/5/2008 10:25:47 PM   
Driver 8

 

Posts: 107
Joined: 26/4/2007
Doomsday is pretty bad, bar one or two half-decent set-pieces

Can't comment on the quality of Speed Racer, as firstly, I haven't seen it, and secondly, I'm scared of what would happen to me if I stepped into the crosshairs of this....discussion.

(in reply to Mojo)
Post #: 99
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 10:37:16 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

Iron Man is another origin story for a flying man in a suit.


and has been getting great word of mouth and review, empires undeserved 3 star notwithstanding, and is in fact a fantastic start to the summer

quote:

Indiana Jones is the third sequel of pretty formulaic franchise.


if pretty formulaic means one of the biggest and most beloved trilogy of films of all time and possibly the most anticipated film of the year?

quote:

Wall-E is another Pixar exercise in exploitative sentimentalism.


sorry have you actually seen the trailer for this, now THATS stunning cgi, more heart and soul in the animation of Wall-e's basic movements than the millions of colours been thrown at the screen in speed racer

quote:

The Dark Knight is, again, a sequel.


another of the most anticipated films of the year

quote:

And The Incredible Hulk is a sequel to a failed movie, being made by a less capable director than the first.


this I agree with, i thought the original Hulk was a ballsy film to make and release as a summer action flick but at times it didnt know what it wanted to be, this looks average



quote:

I'm not saying for a second that these movies won't be good.  I fully expect them to deliver.  But the unique style and verve of Speed Racer - both in terms of its visuals and script - seems to be offering a lot more of a fresh and innovative experience audiences than any of the above films.

That's my view.


the script seems the be the one thing people have a problem with most, forget "its meant to be like that" thats a bullshit excuse, bad writing is bad writing and the trailer has some godawful lines in it, and its not that fresh, outlandish sci-fi races with human elements and cgi backgrounds? yeah the Phantom Menace says hi



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

3D moving images are not films, they're holograms, and should be treated as a separate medium of storytelling, or artform.


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Post #: 100
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 10:42:55 PM   
KnightofZyryab


Posts: 5840
Joined: 26/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

On the story front, it seems that the negative critics can't seem to make their minds up.  Half of them seem to be saying the plot is "too simple", while the other half say it's "too complicated".  How's that for reliable opinions?



Critique doesn't have to accord with each other all the time though, what is important is that nonetheless, these critics have discerned something disfavourable, and regardless of whether their opinion is corroborated by others, they are valid as a consensus of negativity.


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Post #: 101
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 10:50:24 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/speedracer.html?showVideo=1

first 7mins are on yahoo.com


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

3D moving images are not films, they're holograms, and should be treated as a separate medium of storytelling, or artform.


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Post #: 102
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 10:55:28 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
"Now the Wachowski brothers (of the "Matrix" movies) have spent $100 million on a mixture of photography and digital animation and called it "Speed Racer." They have captured (almost) all the chintziness, inexpressiveness and incoherence of the TV show in two hours and nine minutes, or about two hours too long, give or take. Yet some of us would just rather re-rent "Tron" (1982), which was not only a more immersive, dimensional and original take on the Commodore 64 video-graphics aesthetic, but also funnier and more exciting."

from Roger Eberts review


< Message edited by krudler -- 8/5/2008 11:03:29 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

3D moving images are not films, they're holograms, and should be treated as a separate medium of storytelling, or artform.


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Post #: 103
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 11:13:11 PM   
KnightofZyryab


Posts: 5840
Joined: 26/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: krudler

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/speedracer.html?showVideo=1

first 7mins are on yahoo.com



Pretty much Nickelodeon material.

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Imminent viewings : The Place Beyond the Pines

Read my blog at: http://alcentrodelaberinto.blogspot.com/

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Post #: 104
RE: Speed Racer... - 9/5/2008 12:30:21 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18188
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
I must admit from the 7 minute preview mentioned above it does not look awful but at the same time it does look quite mediocre.  I think it will keep the kiddies amused (as I believe is the intent as essentially this is a kids film) depending on if the rest of it follows on at a decent pace.  However, I hope the preview came for an unfinished version as the effects came across as looking pretty cheap and tacky and really looked like they needed a bit of polishing.  

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Post #: 105
RE: Speed Racer - 9/5/2008 1:35:46 AM   
max314


Posts: 2744
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: krudler

and [Iron Man] has been getting great word of mouth and review, empires undeserved 3 star notwithstanding, and is in fact a fantastic start to the summer


Or so you say.

While I haven't seen it, I have to admit that it sounds like a by-the-numbers rehash to me, with only Robert Downey Jr. and his quirky half-mumbling delivery making it anything worth watching.

quote:

if pretty formulaic means one of the biggest and most beloved trilogy of films of all time and possibly the most anticipated film of the year?


Come on, we've seen three of these films already.  Indy and the gang chase a MacGuffin for two hours, and he and his bastard son develop a bond.  Just like Indy and his father did in The Last Crusade.

I'm not saying it won't be entertaining, but it's not exactly pushing cinema to new places, is it?

quote:

sorry have you actually seen the trailer for this, now THATS stunning cgi, more heart and soul in the animation of Wall-e's basic movements than the millions of colours been thrown at the screen in speed racer


Well, I can't see any CG characters in Speed Racer.  Only CG environments.  So already there's a flaw in your argument.

Plus, the aesthetic of the two films are totally different.  One is going for a sort of used, rustic look.  The other is going for an almost cell-shaded, crazy colour look to build on the look of the original animated show.

And personally, as nice as the CG looks for Wall-E, I don't see it really pushing the frontier on the art design or technology fronts as I do Speed Racer.

Again, not saying it won't be entertaining.  But it's definitely more of the same.

quote:

another of the most anticipated films of the year


Mine too.

But it's basically Batman Begins 2.  A sequel.  Revisiting an already established world.

Now, my spine is tingling with excitement at the prospect of another Nolan Batman film, but I still don't feel it's offering that viscerally unique experience that Speed Racer seems to be.

quote:

this I agree with, i thought the original Hulk was a ballsy film to make and release as a summer action flick but at times it didnt know what it wanted to be, this looks average


We'll see.  I think it will be more mainstream and "dumbed down" than Ang Lee's intensely gripping character study, so it will probably be entertaining in the "lowest common denominator" sorta way.

quote:

the script seems the be the one thing people have a problem with most, forget "its meant to be like that" thats a bullshit excuse, bad writing is bad writing and the trailer has some godawful lines in it, and its not that fresh, outlandish sci-fi races with human elements and cgi backgrounds? yeah the Phantom Menace says hi


No, even at a pre-viewing stage I still disagree with that.

There have been 4 and 5 star reviews coming in that say the film is an absolute blast, with a great heart beating under the hood of the groundbreaking spectacle.

Perhaps the visuals was too intense for some.  Perhaps the story was too overtly "childlike" for others.

But for those who really got into the spirit of the movie, you can tell that they were taken on the ride of their life.  And I think that with the cynicism bar dialed down to zero (which it should definitely be for a movie as candy coloured as this), it really will deliver on its own level.

In other words, don't go into a romantic comedy and then bitch about the fact that there were no action scenes.  Judge the film on its own terms, within the confines of its own genre and creative intention.  Only then can you give it a fair run, methinks.

PS
At time of writing it's now officially the 9th of May...Speed Racer is here!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofZyryab

Critique doesn't have to accord with each other all the time though, what is important is that nonetheless, these critics have discerned something disfavourable, and regardless of whether their opinion is corroborated by others, they are valid as a consensus of negativity.


No, what's important is the substance - or lack thereof - within their respective arguments.

There is no "consensus of negativity", insofar as the critics can't seem to decide if the story is "too complicated" or "too simple".

If they all agreed that the film was one thing or another, then you could say "okay, that is a consensus".

But this sounds to me like a bunch of people who don't really know what they're talking about.  A "consensus of mutual stupidity" would be more likely, methinks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: krudler

"Now the Wachowski brothers (of the "Matrix" movies) have spent $100 million on a mixture of photography and digital animation and called it "Speed Racer." They have captured (almost) all the chintziness, inexpressiveness and incoherence of the TV show in two hours and nine minutes, or about two hours too long, give or take. Yet some of us would just rather re-rent "Tron" (1982), which was not only a more immersive, dimensional and original take on the Commodore 64 video-graphics aesthetic, but also funnier and more exciting."

from Roger Eberts review


The man's getting old.  It was probably all a bit too much for him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofZyryab

Pretty much Nickelodeon material.


Well, that is where they're putting a lot of their ads, so I think that's a pretty accurate assessment of the tone of the film.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

I must admit from the 7 minute preview mentioned above it does not look awful but at the same time it does look quite mediocre.  I think it will keep the kiddies amused (as I believe is the intent as essentially this is a kids film) depending on if the rest of it follows on at a decent pace.  However, I hope the preview came for an unfinished version as the effects came across as looking pretty cheap and tacky and really looked like they needed a bit of polishing. 


I'm not watching it on account of me seeing the film tomorrow, but I do think that the effects are supposed to look quasi-cell shaded with regard to their look.


_____________________________

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Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

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Post #: 106
RE: Speed Racer - 9/5/2008 7:58:48 AM   
KnightofZyryab


Posts: 5840
Joined: 26/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofZyryab

Critique doesn't have to accord with each other all the time though, what is important is that nonetheless, these critics have discerned something disfavourable, and regardless of whether their opinion is corroborated by others, they are valid as a consensus of negativity.



No, what's important is the substance - or lack thereof - within their respective arguments.

There is no "consensus of negativity", insofar as the critics can't seem to decide if the story is "too complicated" or "too simple".

If they all agreed that the film was one thing or another, then you could say "okay, that is a consensus".

But this sounds to me like a bunch of people who don't really know what they're talking about.  A "consensus of mutual stupidity" would be more likely, methinks.



How can you accuse their arguments of lack of substance when they have at this point seem 100 % more of the film than you ? I think you've missed my point as well : there doesn't need to be consensus as to exactly what made the film negative, merely that they all discerned elements that worked against the film, and hence rendered it, well, not good. I'm only looking at the holistic viewpoint - they all saw something negative about the film, and to reiterate it doesn't matter if they're opinions accorded. I may love a film for its cinematography say, but someone else may loathe it, love the script, and I may hate the script - our criticisms converge because we have both devalued a film's worth because it has flaws, and not because we can't make up our minds.


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Post #: 107
RE: Speed Racer... - 9/5/2008 8:07:04 AM   
badassmofo


Posts: 1324
Joined: 14/10/2005
From: Russian Literature
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

I must admit from the 7 minute preview mentioned above it does not look awful but at the same time it does look quite mediocre.  I think it will keep the kiddies amused (as I believe is the intent as essentially this is a kids film) depending on if the rest of it follows on at a decent pace.  However, I hope the preview came for an unfinished version as the effects came across as looking pretty cheap and tacky and really looked like they needed a bit of polishing.  


Thats the most suprising thing about the film for me, I really didn't think it would be, but in the end you just think it was OK, not great, not awful just OK.

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Post #: 108
RE: Speed Racer... - 9/5/2008 9:06:36 AM   
Mojo


Posts: 6053
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The CIC, next to the old man.
quote:

Come on, we've seen three of these films already.  Indy and the gang chase a MacGuffin for two hours, and he and his bastard son develop a bond.  Just like Indy and his father did in The Last Crusade.

I'm not saying it won't be entertaining, but it's not exactly pushing cinema to new places, is it?


Max, why does a film have to push the boundries to be any good? Speed Racer may well be presenting a new form of filmmaking not seen before, but it could still end up being a pile of wank. Sure Crystal Skull is the fourth film in a series, and won't feature any groundbreaking new effects, but it will no doubt an incredibly fun adventure movie. Pretty much what cinema was made for. It doesn't have to take cinema to new places, at all.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the film today and I look forwardto your honest review!


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Post #: 109
RE: Speed Racer... - 9/5/2008 9:09:18 AM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2615
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
The 7 minute preview hasn't really done anything for me, I honestly don't see what is so visually groundbreaking here.  It looks to me to be just a CG overload like so many other movies, designed to be a kind of live action anime, how is this pushing visual cinema? How is this pioneering?  It looks good I agree, it's impressive and it looks fast, but so did the Pod Race.  The first thought that popped into my head when Speed is in school and then runs out to meet his brother, was Cat In The Hat.  A similar kitsch, stylised, primary colour look.  The CG racing does look nice, but I'm not sure I'd want to watch that for 2 hours.  I'm trying and failing to get exited about it.  The stilted dialogue and delivery is also a bit off putting. 

Also, that guy who gave it a five star review? Is he serious? "The Smartest Film Critic In The World" What the fuck?!  The review itself is terrible, its just a paragraph telling us a bit about the story and nothing else we couldn't guess from the trailers.  Maybe this is one of those critics who hasn't really seen the film yet, eh Max?  Plus he can't seem to decide what reviewing scale to use, some are B, B- whilst others are 1 star, 3 star etc.  Odd reviewing style.  Plus he gave Son Of Rambow 1 star, which immediately makes him a fool in my opinion.

And Max, give it a rest, I'm not having a go or 'talking shit' about you, I'm simply stating that I find your posts an infuriating read, not that that is necessarily a bad thing.  Why do I want Speed Racer to tank? It certainly isn't out of some petty spite, it's because I know it would draw out some more interesting chat.  What I do see as annoying though is that when you refer to positive reviews and say that Speed Racer 'rocks' before you've even seen it, you claim you're talking about your hopes and aspirations for the movie, and it's part of your anticipation of it. Fine, no problem with that.  But when other people refer to more negative reviews it's all a case of 'well maybe that reviewer hasn't seen it' or that he's 'old and it was a bit much'.  C'mon Max, that's just being biased and makes it hard for people on here to take your entusiasm seriously. 

Still, the first 7 minutes look pretty gash to me.  One for Blu Ray.

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Post #: 110
RE: Speed Racer... - 9/5/2008 9:59:54 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
Max, you have to admit that whether you like it not, your prior respect and admiration for the work of the Wachowski brothers will undeniably affect your reception of any new film of theirs. Ridley Scott is my favourite living director, and I'll freely admit two things. 1) He's made at least one turgid film, and several below-par (par being pretty bloody awesome) films. Nevertheless, I am going to go into any new film of his predisposed to liking it. How you anticipate a film will undoubtedly affect your perception of that film. It could result in disappointment if you've had had built up for you and ends up being below par. Or, if you've built it up for yourself, you could simply subconsciously ignore the negative aspects and enjoy the positive ones. Take, There Will Be Blood, for instance. I was humming and haaing over whether to go see it as it seemed a bit of a slog, and I felt maybe I wanted something a bit lighter. I decided to see it anyway, and I was expecting a hard watch. I was rewarded by seeing the best film this side of the millennium (bar LOTR). I then hyped it for others who came away slightly disappointed, perhaps partly because I and others had hyped it too much so their expectations were too high.
Another example is The Simpsons Movie. I freely admit there were fairly major flaws in the film, but my abiding love for The Simpsons can neatly ignore those and enjoy the film for what it was - a very funny film. I wish it had been a masterpiece, but I was happy with what it turned out to be.
I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't be passionate about a particular film or director, but it is the manner in which that passion is shown that some may find objectionable. Some people simply don't agree, and that's absolutely fine. I found that the trailer for Speed Racer that preceded Iron Man last night looked headache-inducing, with some questionable acting and day-glo colours. Everything was a bit too blurry to be able to ascertain its quality. Now, I'm not saying these things to antagonise you - your love for the Wachowskis seems to immediately put you on the defensive to any criticisms of the film. I'm simply saying what I saw. I'm still going to see it, and I'll reserve judgement on the whole film until such time as I have seen it. I don't take much heed in reviewers unless I know them personally - they're other people; they're not me, nor are they my son. They're the opinions that will matter when I see it, and I'll put both opinions in my review when I do review it.

In the same way that I expect an honest review from Max, I also expect honest reviews from those on the other side of this, um, discussion. However, what both sides have to realise that regardless of this discussion, Max is coming from a point of view of positive respect and admiration for the Wachowskis. Others are coming from the point of view of not particularly liking half of their previous directorial output. (I don't think anyone is disputing the quality of the Matrix, and Bound is a superb noir lesbian thriller, and you don't get many of them to the pound.) And their generally considered weakest films are their two most recent ones. So, you have to admit Max, that they do have a lot to prove to the general public with regards to their return to directorial greatness. (Again, as far as most are concerned.) Speed Racer seems very niche and specialised and I'm not sure this will be their big comeback. However, I'm keeping an open mind, and I hope everyone else will. There seems to be a lot of closed minds here, from both sides of the table. Let's all go away, watch the film, and come back with fully-informed opinions.



Now, play nice.


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Post #: 111
RE: Speed Racer - 9/5/2008 10:13:50 AM   
max314


Posts: 2744
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofZyryab

How can you accuse their arguments of lack of substance when they have at this point seem 100 % more of the film than you ? I think you've missed my point as well : there doesn't need to be consensus as to exactly what made the film negative, merely that they all discerned elements that worked against the film, and hence rendered it, well, not good. I'm only looking at the holistic viewpoint - they all saw something negative about the film, and to reiterate it doesn't matter if they're opinions accorded. I may love a film for its cinematography say, but someone else may loathe it, love the script, and I may hate the script - our criticisms converge because we have both devalued a film's worth because it has flaws, and not because we can't make up our minds.



That's fine, but when two points as blatantly contradictory as "the plot was too simple" and "the plot was too complicated" are voiced, they are both at such extreme opposite ends of the spectrum that it clearly casts a shadow of doubt over the substance of the negativity.  And me not having seen it yet doesn't change that fact.

quote:

ORIGNAL: Mojo

Max, why does a film have to push the boundries to be any good? Speed Racer may well be presenting a new form of filmmaking not seen before, but it could still end up being a pile of wank. Sure Crystal Skull is the fourth film in a series, and won't feature any groundbreaking new effects, but it will no doubt an incredibly fun adventure movie. Pretty much what cinema was made for. It doesn't have to take cinema to new places, at all.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the film today and I look forwardto your honest review!


I never said films have to take cinema to new places.

I merely stated that Speed Racer's groundbreaking visuals and stylistic experimentalism excited me about this film's potential  more than any other big film this Summer.

And yeah, I'll come back with a review for you later today

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

The 7 minute preview hasn't really done anything for me, I honestly don't see what is so visually groundbreaking here.  It looks to me to be just a CG overload like so many other movies, designed to be a kind of live action anime, how is this pushing visual cinema? How is this pioneering?  It looks good I agree, it's impressive and it looks fast, but so did the Pod Race.  The first thought that popped into my head when Speed is in school and then runs out to meet his brother, was Cat In The Hat.  A similar kitsch, stylised, primary colour look.  The CG racing does look nice, but I'm not sure I'd want to watch that for 2 hours.  I'm trying and failing to get exited about it.  The stilted dialogue and delivery is also a bit off putting.


Well, it's "groundbreaking" for a number of reasons.  One of which is the fact that they are using a new camera that allows you to have infinite depth of field.  Just like a cartoon.  A lot of the outdoor location shots are real outdoor locations that have been captured on this new camera.  They've then been digitally enhanced to fit into the Speed Racer world.

I haven't seen those seven minutes myself yet, but I should be back with a full review later today.

quote:

Also, that guy who gave it a five star review? Is he serious? "The Smartest Film Critic In The World" What the fuck?!  The review itself is terrible, its just a paragraph telling us a bit about the story and nothing else we couldn't guess from the trailers.  Maybe this is one of those critics who hasn't really seen the film yet, eh Max?  Plus he can't seem to decide what reviewing scale to use, some are B, B- whilst others are 1 star, 3 star etc.  Odd reviewing style.  Plus he gave Son Of Rambow 1 star, which immediately makes him a fool in my opinion.


They sound like silly things to pick up on, if you ask me.

I remember an episode of Newsnight Review where at least one of the critics really, really did not like Son of Rambow.  It's a legitimate view, and I'm sure they have their reasons.

But it takes a special something for a film to be a five star spectacular.

quote:

And Max, give it a rest, I'm not having a go or 'talking shit' about you, I'm simply stating that I find your posts an infuriating read, not that that is necessarily a bad thing.  Why do I want Speed Racer to tank? It certainly isn't out of some petty spite, it's because I know it would draw out some more interesting chat.  What I do see as annoying though is that when you refer to positive reviews and say that Speed Racer 'rocks' before you've even seen it, you claim you're talking about your hopes and aspirations for the movie, and it's part of your anticipation of it. Fine, no problem with that.  But when other people refer to more negative reviews it's all a case of 'well maybe that reviewer hasn't seen it' or that he's 'old and it was a bit much'.  C'mon Max, that's just being biased and makes it hard for people on here to take your entusiasm seriously.


Until I see the film, I'm going to remain positive about it.  And I'll look for flaws in negative reviews and assets in the positive ones out of that sense of positivity about the film.  That's just part of anticipating a movie.  I mean, just take a peek at the Indy 4 thread.  It's only natural.

But once I have seen the film, then I'll be able to make an informed opinion.  Then all the speculation and hope (which is all it's been so far) can then be put to one side, and I can create a fully formed opinion of the thing.

quote:

Still, the first 7 minutes look pretty gash to me.  One for Blu Ray.


You got that from the first 7 minutes?  Even on a purely visual level, I'd have thought this would be something you'd want to see on the big screen.  Oh well.

< Message edited by max314 -- 9/5/2008 10:14:23 AM >


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Post #: 112
RE: Speed Racer - 9/5/2008 10:28:39 AM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

 remember an episode of Newsnight Review where at least one of the critics really, really did not like Son of Rambow.  It's a legitimate view, and I'm sure they have their reasons.


hang on a sec, you claim anyone whos given speed racer a bad review either doesnt get it or is too old or doesnt appreciate it but when someone slates something else its a legitimate view? come on now you just contradicting yourself


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

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Post #: 113
RE: Speed Racer... - 9/5/2008 10:28:58 AM   
max314


Posts: 2744
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

Max, you have to admit that whether you like it not, your prior respect and admiration for the work of the Wachowski brothers will undeniably affect your reception of any new film of theirs. Ridley Scott is my favourite living director, and I'll freely admit two things. 1) He's made at least one turgid film, and several below-par (par being pretty bloody awesome) films. Nevertheless, I am going to go into any new film of his predisposed to liking it. How you anticipate a film will undoubtedly affect your perception of that film. It could result in disappointment if you've had had built up for you and ends up being below par. Or, if you've built it up for yourself, you could simply subconsciously ignore the negative aspects and enjoy the positive ones. Take, There Will Be Blood, for instance. I was humming and haaing over whether to go see it as it seemed a bit of a slog, and I felt maybe I wanted something a bit lighter. I decided to see it anyway, and I was expecting a hard watch. I was rewarded by seeing the best film this side of the millennium (bar LOTR). I then hyped it for others who came away slightly disappointed, perhaps partly because I and others had hyped it too much so their expectations were too high.
Another example is The Simpsons Movie. I freely admit there were fairly major flaws in the film, but my abiding love for The Simpsons can neatly ignore those and enjoy the film for what it was - a very funny film. I wish it had been a masterpiece, but I was happy with what it turned out to be.
I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't be passionate about a particular film or director, but it is the manner in which that passion is shown that some may find objectionable. Some people simply don't agree, and that's absolutely fine. I found that the trailer for Speed Racer that preceded Iron Man last night looked headache-inducing, with some questionable acting and day-glo colours. Everything was a bit too blurry to be able to ascertain its quality. Now, I'm not saying these things to antagonise you - your love for the Wachowskis seems to immediately put you on the defensive to any criticisms of the film. I'm simply saying what I saw. I'm still going to see it, and I'll reserve judgement on the whole film until such time as I have seen it. I don't take much heed in reviewers unless I know them personally - they're other people; they're not me, nor are they my son. They're the opinions that will matter when I see it, and I'll put both opinions in my review when I do review it.

In the same way that I expect an honest review from Max, I also expect honest reviews from those on the other side of this, um, discussion. However, what both sides have to realise that regardless of this discussion, Max is coming from a point of view of positive respect and admiration for the Wachowskis. Others are coming from the point of view of not particularly liking half of their previous directorial output. (I don't think anyone is disputing the quality of the Matrix, and Bound is a superb noir lesbian thriller, and you don't get many of them to the pound.) And their generally considered weakest films are their two most recent ones. So, you have to admit Max, that they do have a lot to prove to the general public with regards to their return to directorial greatness. (Again, as far as most are concerned.) Speed Racer seems very niche and specialised and I'm not sure this will be their big comeback. However, I'm keeping an open mind, and I hope everyone else will. There seems to be a lot of closed minds here, from both sides of the table. Let's all go away, watch the film, and come back with fully-informed opinions.



Now, play nice.



Well, I respect the candid disclosure of your own psychological approach to watching films you anticipate.

But I have gone into movies like X-Men, X-2, Mission: Impossible 2, Batman Begins, Terminator 3, and a few others that I really had a huge amount of anticipation for.  I mean pant-wettingly high expectations.  But I came out bummed.

Now, these films are generally considered to be "good" (even M:I-2 and Terminator 3 did get 3 or 4 stars and they're generally considered at least "okay" by most).  So surely my huge level of anticipation would dull out the negatives, and I'd come away loving them anyway.

But I didn't.

And that's because, no matter how much I want a film to be good, I cannot in good conscience allow myself to say "yeah, that was good" if I honestly don't believe it.

Trust me, if Speed Racer turns out to be shit, I'll be the first one to tear the thing to shreds.  The Wachowskis are filmmakers with a 100% record in my book.  If they fuck this up, no-one will be more pissed off at them than me.

But by the same token, there's a chance that I could end up agreeing with the 4 and 5 star reviews out there and feel the Wachowskis knocked it out of the park.

So some people may indeed go into films with bias and have their experiences affected by those biases.  And that's fine.  But I have always been incapable of of being anything other than brutally honest with even my most highly anticipated films.

But thanks for a mature post


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Post #: 114
RE: Speed Racer - 9/5/2008 10:30:48 AM   
max314


Posts: 2744
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: krudler

hang on a sec, you claim anyone whos given speed racer a bad review either doesnt get it or is too old or doesnt appreciate it but when someone slates something else its a legitimate view? come on now you just contradicting yourself



I just openly stated that I'm looking for the good in the good and the bad in the bad.  It's only natural to do that with films you're anticipating pre-release.  Just look at the Indy 4 thread.


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Post #: 115
RE: Speed Racer... - 9/5/2008 10:32:12 AM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton
quote:

Trust me, if Speed Racer turns out to be shit, I'll be the first one to tear the thing to shreds.  The Wachowskis are filmmakers with a 100% record in my book.  If they fuck this up, no-one will be more pissed off at them than me.


Theres about as much chance of this happening as Mrs Felix arranging for Scarlet Johansson to join us for the night...

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Post #: 116
RE: Speed Racer - 9/5/2008 10:40:16 AM   
max314


Posts: 2744
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
Speed Racer is "the future of movies". --TIME Magazine

Wahey!

Source

A friend of mine just got back and said he was rocked out of his fucking seat for the full two hours


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Post #: 117
RE: Speed Racer... - 9/5/2008 10:43:32 AM   
max314


Posts: 2744
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Felix

Theres about as much chance of this happening as Mrs Felix arranging for Scarlet Johansson to join us for the night...


See, I knew it

If I come back with a positive review, I'm just gonna be accused of fanboy pandering!

Like there's noooooooooooooo possibility of someone who isn't anticipating this movie to like it.  Weak, dude.  Weak.

< Message edited by max314 -- 9/5/2008 10:46:50 AM >


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Post #: 118
RE: Speed Racer... - 9/5/2008 10:47:04 AM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton
No, I meant theres no possibility of you ever admitting it if you dont like the film.

Why cant you just accept that some people, including me, really arent interested in it and if anything, have been put off the film even more by the migraine inducing headache of a trailer.

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Post #: 119
RE: Speed Racer... - 9/5/2008 10:53:36 AM   
Neth


Posts: 4750
Joined: 3/10/2005
My friend just got back from seeing Speed Racer. He said it was even better than the time he drank some spiked Kool Aid and played Wipeout 2097 for fourteen hours straight whilst a transvestite hooker jerked him off and Limp Bizkit did a live set in the corner of his lounge.

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