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RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 9:01:32 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
could just be that its rubbish

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ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

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Post #: 61
RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 9:01:53 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

Is it not at all possible that critics are allowed to not like it for other reasons than for it's visual style? You seem to be certain that this is the only reason, and a reason that conveniently deflects blame away from the Wachowskis because 'you either get it or you don't' and it's 'divisive' by nature, as you keep saying.


Nobody can afford to make a film for that much money and make it purposely divisive. They surely want as many people to like it as possible?

Also, I just read the New Yorker reviewed (very harsh) and they seemed to imply that the main characters name is actually Speed Racer (i.e. Speed is his forename and Racer his surname).

Is that right?

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Post #: 62
RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 9:02:45 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

Is it not at all possible that critics are allowed to not like it for other reasons than for it's visual style? You seem to be certain that this is the only reason, and a reason that conveniently deflects blame away from the Wachowskis because 'you either get it or you don't' and it's 'divisive' by nature, as you keep saying.


Nobody can afford to make a film for that much money and make it purposely divisive. They surely want as many people to like it as possible?

Also, I just read the New Yorker reviewed (very harsh) and they seemed to imply that the main characters name is actually Speed Racer (i.e. Speed is his forename and Racer his surname).

Is that right?


sure is


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

3D moving images are not films, they're holograms, and should be treated as a separate medium of storytelling, or artform.


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Post #: 63
RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 9:18:31 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland
quote:

ORIGINAL: krudler

sure is






< Message edited by Wilbert -- 7/5/2008 9:19:01 PM >


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Post #: 64
RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 9:23:11 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
[from trailer]
Teacher: [to Speed's mother] Your son seems to be interested in only one thing. All he talks about, all he seems capable of thinking about... is automobile racing.


LOL, thats an actual quote from the movie, fucking hell


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

3D moving images are not films, they're holograms, and should be treated as a separate medium of storytelling, or artform.


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Post #: 65
RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 9:27:54 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: krudler

[from trailer]
Teacher: [to Speed's mother] Your son seems to be interested in only one thing. All he talks about, all he seems capable of thinking about... is automobile racing.


LOL, thats an actual quote from the movie, fucking hell



Well, they are "damn fine scribes", Krudler.

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Post #: 66
RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 9:30:09 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
Indeed, now the question isnt that Speed is choosing to race, rather he has to make the choice  that its his own choice to choose to race , or something 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

3D moving images are not films, they're holograms, and should be treated as a separate medium of storytelling, or artform.


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Post #: 67
RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 10:16:35 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18305
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
Then again looking at the source material of a Japanese cartoon dubbed into English with various doubious pauses etc. in order to cover the difference in language structure and awful plotting involved it doesn't provide that strong a canvas to paint upon.  However, I haven't seen the film or know anyone who has seen it (or to be honest anyone who actually wants to see it) so cannot say with any level of certainty whether it is any good or not.  At the moment the "divisive" CGI seems to be the thing which critics who have liked the film are raving about with very few good words for the structure and plot.

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Post #: 68
RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 10:26:23 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23709
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

Just out of curiosity who here has actually seen Speed Racer to be able to make a balanced (the key word with no obsessive skewed biases one way or the other and for god, buddha and whoever elses sake no more Matrix) opinion of it?   I notice that Rottentomatoes gives it a 33% rating which suggests that overall critics have not been kind but at the same time recognise that critics are definitely not the be all and end all of movie opinion. 


The film's been flip-flopping between 30% and 45% on the T-Meter.  My guess is that it will end up somewhere between 40% and 50% owing to its highly divisive visual style, with just over half the critics not liking it.



The majority of reviews praised the film's visual style. They had a problem with its simplistic storytelling and terrible script.

Just sayin'...


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Post #: 69
RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 10:46:55 PM   
the anomaly


Posts: 6423
Joined: 20/6/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

Is it not at all possible that critics are allowed to not like it for other reasons than for it's visual style? You seem to be certain that this is the only reason, and a reason that conveniently deflects blame away from the Wachowskis because 'you either get it or you don't' and it's 'divisive' by nature, as you keep saying.


Nobody can afford to make a film for that much money and make it purposely divisive. They surely want as many people to like it as possible?

Also, I just read the New Yorker reviewed (very harsh) and they seemed to imply that the main characters name is actually Speed Racer (i.e. Speed is his forename and Racer his surname).

Is that right?


As soon as I heard they were making this film it did just seem highly self indulgent. The bros must have been fans of the original Manga, Anime and latter cartoon versions of this story. They decided to re-create it for themselves and the fans and from what I have seen that is that.

I have not seen the film but it looks like a manga bought to life. For a die hard fan that is great. For Manga fans who understand the genre ok. But for others well it is probaly easy for people to pick holes at it and tear it apart.
It is hard to describe but these type of manga is standard fare for the kids of Japan. For example a huge manga right now is "Prince of Tennis" I have read a few and it is pretty much the same thing.

The lead is usually passionate about one thing and they have strong dreams and desires to work hard, train, practice and be the best at it going about it in the most honest way( I would add in this case Speed Racer does seem so wholesome and old fashioned it may seem sickly but thats the point he is pure) . There is always a rival who is a darker more shady character may start off as a villian and become an anti-hero while battling with the lead etc etc. Then the whole thing is extremelly over the top and melodramtic. (in Prince of tennis everyone has special moves the equal to those of Street Fighter applied to tennis). To be fair there are many cliches in a lot of films too. But if your not a fan of the genre you won't like it. They may sound crazy but they can work really well.

My end point is I just found it strange for them to make this film. It just seems like a niche idea. If you are ever going to see it just expect an old school comic brought to life, melodrama, probally well done over the top races, dialoge which will make you laugh and is so bad it's good and yeah thats my two cents.

I myself have not seen it. I will catch it on DVD probaly. As I have mentioned it's a niche idea. I don't know any real Speed Racer fans and it seems tailored to them. If they bring anyone else to the field then thats just a bonus for them it seems. I kind of admire that. But I have not seen it and well no matter who you aim your film at theres no need for it to be shit. Theres some things you just can not forgive.

< Message edited by the anomaly -- 7/5/2008 10:52:29 PM >

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Post #: 70
RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 11:01:44 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland
I'll go and see this movie. Going to New York tomorrow so might catch it there. I want it to be great. I want every movie I go and see to be great. I never go to a movie thinking it'll be shit. I want them to be great but if I think it's shit, I'll say so.

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Post #: 71
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 12:11:15 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20121
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314
If someone tells me that 2+2=5, me correcting their mistake and saying "you're wrong...this is the right answer" should be considered a favour.  It's more likely your own sense of insecurity if you think "ugh, he's being smug for telling me the truth".

Not saying you're dumb.  But not everyone understands everything all of the time.  That's why the internet is such a great place for cross-polination and evolution of ideas.  If you just close the doors everytime someone offers you a new perspective and accuse them of being smug, then you're failing the first stage of learning - to know that you know nothing.  To dissolve your ego.  To be prepared to listen.

You can't help or educate someone who doesn't want to be helped or educated.

And, again, you call it "rambling" and insist that the trilogy doesn't work.  But these are all purely unsubstantiated, subjective points that simply can't be argued, except for me saying "I disagree".  What the fuck kind of a discussion is that?



Jesus that is condescending. The difference between "2+2=5" and commenting on a film, is that where the former can be proven to be incorrect and is thus objective, film commentary is by its nature subjective. 'You can't help or educate people' because you're not trying to help or educate them. You're trying to shove your own opinion down their throats, irrespective of their own opinion that differs wildly from your own. You love the films. They don't. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

With regards to this film, I'm going to see it, but only because my son saw the hyperactive trailer and loved it. But then, my son loves Power Rangers, so I'm still cultivating his taste... 


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Post #: 72
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 7:38:26 AM   
KnightofZyryab


Posts: 5840
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quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

2+2=5... this is the right answer" 



Dear God, it's not is it ?

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Post #: 73
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 12:45:27 PM   
max314


Posts: 2768
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

Is it not at all possible that critics are allowed to not like it for other reasons than for it's visual style?


They're certainy "allowed to", but the overwhelming trend I'm noticing has been towards the divisive nature of the film's visual style.

quote:

You seem to be certain that this is the only reason...


Then you've misunderstood me.

quote:

and a reason that conveniently deflects blame away from the Wachowskis because 'you either get it or you don't' and it's 'divisive' by nature, as you keep saying.


It's not me who's saying it.

Empire's own review states that the film's style will "split the ranks" with regard to its style.

quote:

ORIGINAL: krudler

could just be that its rubbish


Could be.  But with the film getting 4 and 5 star reviews, I'm sure it's not as simple as that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert

Nobody can afford to make a film for that much money and make it purposely divisive. They surely want as many people to like it as possible?


I'm sure they hoped that it would have a very wide appeal, but it was still experimental.  Sometimes the experiment pays off (The Matrix), sometimes it doesn't (The Matrix Revolutions).

But the Wachowskis only seem to be interested in doing films that they feel will bring something new to the medium.  Which makes a refreshing change from other filmmakers who seem happy to rehash the style and content of other films.

quote:

Also, I just read the New Yorker reviewed (very harsh) and they seemed to imply that the main characters name is actually Speed Racer (i.e. Speed is his forename and Racer his surname).

Is that right?


Yeah.  That's how it was in the cartoon.

quote:

Well, they are "damn fine scribes", Krudler.


That's the cheesy style of the cartoon that the movie is deliberately written in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

At the moment the "divisive" CGI seems to be the thing which critics who have liked the film are raving about with very few good words for the structure and plot.


There's a bit of a mixture.  There are some negative reviews that commend the visuals, but there are also a lot of negative reviews that condemn it.

On the story front, it seems that the negative critics can't seem to make their minds up.  Half of them seem to be saying the plot is "too simple", while the other half say it's "too complicated".  How's that for reliable opinions?

Insofar as the "simple" comments go, I don't think Woody's quest to get home in Toy Story was exactly the most complex plot in the world.  And as far as the "complicated" ones are concerned, I'll have to see the film to be sure the hoo-har those people are talking about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

The majority of reviews praised the film's visual style. They had a problem with its simplistic storytelling and terrible script.

Just sayin'...


As I said above, the critics can't seem to make up their minds on whether the story is "too simple" or "too complicated".

With such contradictory comments, one wonders if some of them have even seen the film at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

Jesus that is condescending. The difference between "2+2=5" and commenting on a film, is that where the former can be proven to be incorrect and is thus objective, film commentary is by its nature subjective. 'You can't help or educate people' because you're not trying to help or educate them. You're trying to shove your own opinion down their throats, irrespective of their own opinion that differs wildly from your own. You love the films. They don't. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

With regards to this film, I'm going to see it, but only because my son saw the hyperactive trailer and loved it. But then, my son loves Power Rangers, so I'm still cultivating his taste... 


I suggest you spend a little less time feeling hurt and a little more time actually reading what I say.

I very clearly stated that when people say "I didn't like x, y and z about the movie", there's nothing I can say to that, except "I disagree - I liked it".  That's subjective.

But when people are going to talk about concrete technical things like "plot holes and flaws", I can point out that "no, actually it's not a plot hole - here's the explanation".  That's objective.

That's where my "2+2=5" comment comes into play.

And yeah, take your kid to see it.  I suspect it will be kids around the world who will be yanking at their parents' coat tails to see the film, and will probably end up making the bulk of the film's box office

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofZyryab

Dear God, it's not is it ?


No it's not.  That's the point I was making.


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Post #: 74
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 1:30:52 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2616
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
Is anyone else in this thread fed up with the phrase 'divisive nature'?

Since this film was announced with Larry and Andy Wachowski at the helm (isn't one of them a woman or something now?) I've just failed to become interested or exited about seeing it.  The visuals look nice in bursts, but I get the feeling having my eyes raped by colour for 2 hours might be a bit much. 

The acting and script just seem fucking dire.  I know, I know it's based on a cheesy cartoon, but surely we can expect a little something better than this?

I'm intrigued by some of the more positive reviews, and they may just sway me to see it at a later date on Blu Ray.  But I think the overall view is that the fine visuals don't really balance out the waste of time that is the story and characters.  With such a packed few months at the cinema (Iron Man, Indy, Hulk, Batman, Wall E etc) I think Speed Racer could tank as it doesn't really offer as counter programming to those other, bigger films. 

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Post #: 75
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 2:07:34 PM   
max314


Posts: 2768
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Is anyone else in this thread fed up with the phrase 'divisive nature'?


Almost as fed up as I am with hearing Obama talk about a McCain presidency being just a third term of Bush policies, but that don't make it any less important.  Or true.

quote:

Since this film was announced with Larry and Andy Wachowski at the helm (isn't one of them a woman or something now?) I've just failed to become interested or exited about seeing it.  The visuals look nice in bursts, but I get the feeling having my eyes raped by colour for 2 hours might be a bit much.


I'd rather have the eye-popping visuals of Speed Racer than the pretty reserved, unadventurous visual rehashes of most movies.

It seems that whenever a film seems to be offering "too much" of something in any genre, it's because that film is actually pioneering a transition into a new phase of cinema that people simply aren't used to yet.  I get the feeling that Speed Racer will be that pioneer.

quote:

The acting and script just seem fucking dire.  I know, I know it's based on a cheesy cartoon, but surely we can expect a little something better than this?


"Better" in what way?

It's either cheesy or it isn't.  And you either like it or you don't.

I think "better" is purely subjective in this context.

quote:

I'm intrigued by some of the more positive reviews, and they may just sway me to see it at a later date on Blu Ray.  But I think the overall view is that the fine visuals don't really balance out the waste of time that is the story and characters.


Well if you're "intrigued", then check out the movie tomorrow or over the weekend.

The fact that the film has garnered ratings in a range as wide as 2 to 5 stars surely demands that you do yourself the favour of checking the movie out yourself and making up your own mind.  Instead of letting a bunch of critics (who probably haven't even seen the movie) make your mind up for you.  You owe yourself that.

quote:

With such a packed few months at the cinema (Iron Man, Indy, Hulk, Batman, Wall E etc) I think Speed Racer could tank as it doesn't really offer as counter programming to those other, bigger films. 


Iron Man is another origin story for a flying man in a suit.

Indiana Jones is the third sequel of pretty formulaic franchise.

Wall-E is another Pixar exercise in exploitative sentimentalism.

The Dark Knight is, again, a sequel.

And The Incredible Hulk is a sequel to a failed movie, being made by a less capable director than the first.

I'm not saying for a second that these movies won't be good.  I fully expect them to deliver.  But the unique style and verve of Speed Racer - both in terms of its visuals and script - seems to be offering a lot more of a fresh and innovative experience audiences than any of the above films.

That's my view.

< Message edited by max314 -- 8/5/2008 2:09:32 PM >


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Post #: 76
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 2:25:28 PM   
Larry of Arabia

 

Posts: 7576
Joined: 28/2/2007
From: Turtle Island
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

Is it not at all possible that critics are allowed to not like it for other reasons than for it's visual style?


They're certainy "allowed to", but the overwhelming trend I'm noticing has been towards the divisive nature of the film's visual style.


You stated that the eventual rating would end between 40% and 50% "owing to the highly divisive visual style", not mentioning any other reason.

quote:



quote:

You seem to be certain that this is the only reason...


Then you've misunderstood me.


See above.

quote:


quote:

and a reason that conveniently deflects blame away from the Wachowskis because 'you either get it or you don't' and it's 'divisive' by nature, as you keep saying.


It's not me who's saying it.

Empire's own review states that the film's style will "split the ranks" with regard to its style.



If you're not saying it, you're certainly repeating it alot.

Also, you seem to be highly critical of reviewers who take issue with the story, saying "one wonders if some of them have even seen the film at all." Have you seen the film?

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Post #: 77
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 2:31:04 PM   
LEEJGM


Posts: 1041
Joined: 21/12/2005
Max, in all honesty, when you see Speed Racer, what if by some remote chance you don't like it - will you admit it?  If it ends up in your mind as being the mess that many here believe it is, would you honestly come back on this thread and say 'you know what? I was wrong.'  Are you likely to actually see a Wachowski Bros film for what it really is or will everything they make be great in your eyes just because of your love for the Matrix movies? 

I think not. 

We all know you're going to say it's the best film of the year regardless of what you really think now don't we?  It seems you've made up your mind about it already just because it's directed by the Wachowskis. 

No one else here has a such a strong love for the Wachowskis like you so I think that puts them in better position to say how good or bad this film is once they've seen it.  
I bet, regardless of Speed Racer's quality, you're going to have a go at anyone that hated it and point out that they did't understand it. 

I suggest you see Speed Racer, open your eyes and ears, and forget that it's a Wachowski Bros film and come back and tell us your honest opinion.  If it's as great as you seem to convinced it is, fine, good for you.  But I would love you to come back and say, 'actually, most of the reviewers got it right, it's just not very good'.  Maybe then, you'll take your head out of the Wachowskis' arses and take a breath of fresh air.

By the way, I have seen it but I'll save my opinion for now.




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Post #: 78
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 3:07:32 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2616
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
Jesus Max, your Wachowski boner knows no bounds does it!

I don't really know what to say here, I just simply haven't got the energy to get into a discussion with Max on this one, simply because there seems no middle ground.  Max, you seem incapable of admitting to any failings that the Wachowski's may have.  It grates a little.  It's kinda worthy that someone could devote their time and effort to defending someone else work, but most of the time it comes off as annoying.  Maybe it's in your tone and writing style... I dunno.

Anyway, the adventurous visuals are interesting, I'm not sure anyone would disagree with that.  But being adventurous and interesting wont always make it enjoyable, and the stylised visuals here look like they could become fucking headache inducing.  Adventurous visuals are all well and good, but can't we have an interesting story behind it all? Ok, it doesn't have to just be interesting, just entertaining! All I'm hearing is the story is dull as dishwater.

It would appear that the film is taking a bit of a critical drubbing and you're now defending it by saying 'that film is actually pioneering a transition into a new phase of cinema that people simply aren't used to yet'.  Sounds like we're back to the old 'You dont get it' agrument already, and you haven't even seen the film!  You say critics that have published reviews shouldn't be able to sway our opinions because they 'probably haven't even seen the movie'.  Well neither have you, and you're claiming that its pioneering cinema! How contradictory is that?!

All the movies I listed (Hulk, Iron Man, Dark Knight, Indy, Pixar) look far, far more interesting than Speed Racer.  Yes, even Hulk, which to me looks pretty damn weak.  I loved Ang Lee's original adn I'm intrigued to see what becomes of this new version.  Which it should be pointed out is not a sequel.  You seem to be implying that simply because Iron Man, Batman, Indy and Hulk are part of established franchises, or are sequels or whatever that they hold little interest and don't seem to be offering anything new.  Er, you do remember that Speed Racer is a movie based on a cartoon? Yes? With a lead character called Speed..... nice visuals aside, this film isn't going to be a pioneer of anything.  I think the best we can hope from this film is that it may push the Wachowskis back to something smaller and more interesting.

My mind is racing with points I want to raise and discuss/argue the toss with Max, but I simply don't have time to be able to coherently type them out. Gah! So annoying.  Oh and Max, please don't think I'm having a go or anything.  I've enjoyed your threads on the Matrix, and while I disagree with almost all you say, it's still an entertaining (if infuriating) read.  But here with Speed Racer, you have to let go of this Wachowski hard on, especially if you havent even seen the film!

Edit:  I just noticed that in the list of films I listed Wall E as Pixar...... how foolish.  Anyway, it was another point I was going to raise.  "Wall-E is another Pixar exercise in exploitative sentimentalism"....... What?!?! 

< Message edited by porntrooper -- 8/5/2008 3:10:29 PM >


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Post #: 79
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 4:13:03 PM   
max314


Posts: 2768
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

You stated that the eventual rating would end between 40% and 50% "owing to the highly divisive visual style", not mentioning any other reason.


So?  I didn't say there couldn't be any other reasons.

quote:


See above.


Ditto.

quote:

If you're not saying it, you're certainly repeating it alot.


When several people repeat similar arguments, there's not much choice for variety on the counter argument.

quote:

Also, you seem to be highly critical of reviewers who take issue with the story, saying "one wonders if some of them have even seen the film at all." Have you seen the film?


No, but then I'm not passing definitive judgements on the film.  Just the things I hope for and expect.

And it's not unusual for reviewers to review films they haven't seen.  It happens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LEEJGM

Max, in all honesty, when you see Speed Racer, what if by some remote chance you don't like it - will you admit it?  If it ends up in your mind as being the mess that many here believe it is, would you honestly come back on this thread and say 'you know what? I was wrong.'  Are you likely to actually see a Wachowski Bros film for what it really is or will everything they make be great in your eyes just because of your love for the Matrix movies? 

I think not. 

We all know you're going to say it's the best film of the year regardless of what you really think now don't we?  It seems you've made up your mind about it already just because it's directed by the Wachowskis. 

No one else here has a such a strong love for the Wachowskis like you so I think that puts them in better position to say how good or bad this film is once they've seen it.  
I bet, regardless of Speed Racer's quality, you're going to have a go at anyone that hated it and point out that they did't understand it. 

I suggest you see Speed Racer, open your eyes and ears, and forget that it's a Wachowski Bros film and come back and tell us your honest opinion.  If it's as great as you seem to convinced it is, fine, good for you.  But I would love you to come back and say, 'actually, most of the reviewers got it right, it's just not very good'.  Maybe then, you'll take your head out of the Wachowskis' arses and take a breath of fresh air.

By the way, I have seen it but I'll save my opinion for now.


Oh, get overself.

I'm not going to fabricate a negative view just to appease you.

I'm going to say what I think.  Honestly.  As always.

And for you to attack my honesty is a fucking insult that I think you owe me an apology for.

In the event that I end up not liking the movie, I'll just wag my finger at the Wachowskis and say "you can do better than this!".

But what I really think needs to change here is your attitude.  Because if I come back here with a positive review, people like you will probably just roll their eyes, saying "surprise, surprise".

Well, I don't give a fuck.  You're nothing to me.

PS
I don't love the Wachowskis.  I love the work they've produced thus far.  "Thus far" meaning I will look critically upon any Wachowski movie I don't like.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Jesus Max, your Wachowski boner knows no bounds does it!

I don't really know what to say here, I just simply haven't got the energy to get into a discussion with Max on this one, simply because there seems no middle ground.  Max, you seem incapable of admitting to any failings that the Wachowski's may have.  It grates a little.  It's kinda worthy that someone could devote their time and effort to defending someone else work, but most of the time it comes off as annoying.  Maybe it's in your tone and writing style... I dunno.


Maybe it's in your narrow minded attitude, I dunno.

I'll tell you what the problem is:

"Max, you seem incapable of admitting to any failings that the Wachowski's may have."

Well, I don't see any "failings".  So there's nothing to "admit".  Your problem is that you do see failings, and you want me to agree with you.

For all the talk about me not accepting other peoples' subjective opinions (which isn't true, I've always accepted them even if I have my own opinions on them), it's people saying things like this that proves it's not me who's being narrow minded about peoples' opinions.

The Devil is apparently closer to home than you think.

quote:

Anyway, the adventurous visuals are interesting, I'm not sure anyone would disagree with that.  But being adventurous and interesting wont always make it enjoyable, and the stylised visuals here look like they could become fucking headache inducing.  Adventurous visuals are all well and good, but can't we have an interesting story behind it all? Ok, it doesn't have to just be interesting, just entertaining! All I'm hearing is the story is dull as dishwater.


Then you obviously haven't read all the reviews.

quote:

It would appear that the film is taking a bit of a critical drubbing and you're now defending it by saying 'that film is actually pioneering a transition into a new phase of cinema that people simply aren't used to yet'.  Sounds like we're back to the old 'You dont get it' agrument already, and you haven't even seen the film!  You say critics that have published reviews shouldn't be able to sway our opinions because they 'probably haven't even seen the movie'.  Well neither have you, and you're claiming that its pioneering cinema! How contradictory is that?!


That was mere speculation.  I didn't make any definitive statements, and will refrain from doing so until I've seen the film.

quote:

All the movies I listed (Hulk, Iron Man, Dark Knight, Indy, Pixar) look far, far more interesting than Speed Racer.  Yes, even Hulk, which to me looks pretty damn weak.  I loved Ang Lee's original adn I'm intrigued to see what becomes of this new version.  Which it should be pointed out is not a sequel.  You seem to be implying that simply because Iron Man, Batman, Indy and Hulk are part of established franchises, or are sequels or whatever that they hold little interest and don't seem to be offering anything new.  Er, you do remember that Speed Racer is a movie based on a cartoon? Yes? With a lead character called Speed..... nice visuals aside, this film isn't going to be a pioneer of anything.  I think the best we can hope from this film is that it may push the Wachowskis back to something smaller and more interesting.

My mind is racing with points I want to raise and discuss/argue the toss with Max, but I simply don't have time to be able to coherently type them out. Gah! So annoying.  Oh and Max, please don't think I'm having a go or anything.  I've enjoyed your threads on the Matrix, and while I disagree with almost all you say, it's still an entertaining (if infuriating) read.  But here with Speed Racer, you have to let go of this Wachowski hard on, especially if you havent even seen the film!

Edit:  I just noticed that in the list of films I listed Wall E as Pixar...... how foolish.  Anyway, it was another point I was going to raise.  "Wall-E is another Pixar exercise in exploitative sentimentalism"....... What?!?!


With the amount of shit I've had to put up with from people like you over the past 5 years, I'm the one who should be "infuriated" if anyone.  And yet here I am, in the middle of my exams, taking time out to address your points in an intelligent and coherent way.

And yes, Speed Racer looks like it's going to redefine visual expectations of cinema.


_____________________________

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Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

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Post #: 80
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 4:28:14 PM   
Larry of Arabia

 

Posts: 7576
Joined: 28/2/2007
From: Turtle Island
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

You stated that the eventual rating would end between 40% and 50% "owing to the highly divisive visual style", not mentioning any other reason.


So?  I didn't say there couldn't be any other reasons.


Convenient.

quote:


quote:

If you're not saying it, you're certainly repeating it alot.


When several people repeat similar arguments, there's not much choice for variety on the counter argument.


Must try harder Max, the Master of the Matrix should know the answer.

quote:


quote:

Also, you seem to be highly critical of reviewers who take issue with the story, saying "one wonders if some of them have even seen the film at all." Have you seen the film?


No, but then I'm not passing definitive judgements on the film.  Just the things I hope for and expect.

And it's not unusual for reviewers to review films they haven't seen.  It happens.


Maybe the reviewers in your sig haven't seen them, maybe Speed Racer doesn't 'Rock!" as your sig so hopefully expects (in a completely unbiased manner).

quote:


With the amount of shit I've had to put up with from people like you over the past 5 years, I'm the one who should be "infuriated" if anyone.  And yet here I am, in the middle of my exams, taking time out to address your points in an intelligent and coherent way.


Stop moaning, you're the one who chooses to come on here.

< Message edited by Larry of Arabia -- 8/5/2008 4:30:03 PM >


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Post #: 81
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 4:28:45 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2616
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
Lets face it... if anyone has redifined visual cinema its those exploitative swines over at Pixar!

Max, you seem to take everything soooo seriously and personally.  You're right, I haven't read all the reviews, but I've read reviews from sources I trust and respect and for the most part they're laying down the same criticisms and the same praises (nice visuals/poor story).  I'm looking forward to hearing your views on it when it's released.  I really hope you're not taking my comments about reading your posts too much to heart.  Trust me, as infuriating as they sometimes (often) get, they do entertain.  Think of it like watching a slasher movie.... some big titted blonde goes to investigate a strange noise.... you know she's gonna get hacked to bits, it winds you up, you scream at the screen 'Don't do it!' but she does, and it infuriates you, but its still fun!  This thread has now made me hope that Speed Racer tanks.  Dunno why, it just has. 


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(in reply to max314)
Post #: 82
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 4:57:40 PM   
LEEJGM


Posts: 1041
Joined: 21/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: LEEJGM

Max, in all honesty, when you see Speed Racer, what if by some remote chance you don't like it - will you admit it?  If it ends up in your mind as being the mess that many here believe it is, would you honestly come back on this thread and say 'you know what? I was wrong.'  Are you likely to actually see a Wachowski Bros film for what it really is or will everything they make be great in your eyes just because of your love for the Matrix movies? 

I think not. 

We all know you're going to say it's the best film of the year regardless of what you really think now don't we?  It seems you've made up your mind about it already just because it's directed by the Wachowskis. 

No one else here has a such a strong love for the Wachowskis like you so I think that puts them in better position to say how good or bad this film is once they've seen it.  
I bet, regardless of Speed Racer's quality, you're going to have a go at anyone that hated it and point out that they did't understand it. 

I suggest you see Speed Racer, open your eyes and ears, and forget that it's a Wachowski Bros film and come back and tell us your honest opinion.  If it's as great as you seem to convinced it is, fine, good for you.  But I would love you to come back and say, 'actually, most of the reviewers got it right, it's just not very good'.  Maybe then, you'll take your head out of the Wachowskis' arses and take a breath of fresh air.

By the way, I have seen it but I'll save my opinion for now.


Oh, get overself.

I'm not going to fabricate a negative view just to appease you.

I'm going to say what I think.  Honestly.  As always.

And for you to attack my honesty is a fucking insult that I think you owe me an apology for.

In the event that I end up not liking the movie, I'll just wag my finger at the Wachowskis and say "you can do better than this!".

But what I really think needs to change here is your attitude.  Because if I come back here with a positive review, people like you will probably just roll their eyes, saying "surprise, surprise".

Well, I don't give a fuck.  You're nothing to me
.

PS
I don't love the Wachowskis.  I love the work they've produced thus far.  "Thus far" meaning I will look critically upon any Wachowski movie I don't like.

 
 
I didn't ask you to give it a negative review.  I just want you to take off the rose tinted glasses.  Maybe you need to have a look at your own attitude.

If I owe you an apology, you owe me and everyone else on here one for being so condescending to everyone all of the time. So we may as well call that quits.  I'm not calling you a liar, I'm calling you blindly biased.

And there's no need for the swearing and aggression Max.  I'm sure the brothers wouldn't aprove.
 




 

(in reply to max314)
Post #: 83
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 5:20:37 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23709
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

The fact that the film has garnered ratings in a range as wide as 2 to 5 stars surely demands that you do yourself the favour of checking the movie out yourself and making up your own mind.


Who gave it 5 stars? Metacritic shows the highest rating as 3 / 5.


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(in reply to max314)
Post #: 84
RE: Speed Racer... - 8/5/2008 6:21:18 PM   
max314


Posts: 2768
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

Convenient.


Face it.  You were making a shit point.

quote:

Must try harder Max, the Master of the Matrix should know the answer.


With the amount of pointless shit you're spewing right now, it's pretty clear you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

quote:

Maybe the reviewers in your sig haven't seen them, maybe Speed Racer doesn't 'Rock!" as your sig so hopefully expects (in a completely unbiased manner).


Or maybe they have.

quote:

Stop moaning, you're the one who chooses to come on here.


Which is why I'm not moaning.

I'm merely pointing out to porntrooper, who said that discussing this topic with me is "infuriating", really has nothing to moan about when I've been putting up with a lot more for a lot longer than he has.

Any more pointless, retarded shit you wanna add, Larry?

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Lets face it... if anyone has redifined visual cinema its those exploitative swines over at Pixar!


That they have.

But with regards to this Summer's big releases (which is what you were talking about), the only movie that looks to have the potential to move the medium forward is Speed Racer.

quote:

Max, you seem to take everything soooo seriously and personally.  You're right, I haven't read all the reviews, but I've read reviews from sources I trust and respect and for the most part they're laying down the same criticisms and the same praises (nice visuals/poor story).  I'm looking forward to hearing your views on it when it's released.  I really hope you're not taking my comments about reading your posts too much to heart.  Trust me, as infuriating as they sometimes (often) get, they do entertain.  Think of it like watching a slasher movie.... some big titted blonde goes to investigate a strange noise.... you know she's gonna get hacked to bits, it winds you up, you scream at the screen 'Don't do it!' but she does, and it infuriates you, but its still fun!


You say shit about me and then you say "I hope you're not taking my comments too much to heart"?

Disingenuous to the extreme.

quote:

This thread has now made me hope that Speed Racer tanks.  Dunno why, it just has. 


Maybe because you're being petty and think that Speed Racer tanking will be a way of "getting back" at me out of spite?

It won't matter either way, of course, since box office numbers isn't necessarily indicative of the quality of a film.

quote:

ORIGNAL: LEEJGM

I didn't ask you to give it a negative review.  I just want you to take off the rose tinted glasses.  Maybe you need to have a look at your own attitude.

If I owe you an apology, you owe me and everyone else on here one for being so condescending to everyone all of the time. So we may as well call that quits.  I'm not calling you a liar, I'm calling you blindly biased.

And there's no need for the swearing and aggression Max.  I'm sure the brothers wouldn't aprove.


I'm looking forward to the film.

Just like you're probably looking forward to films this Summer.

I won't be watching Speed Racer with any more "rose tinted glasses" than anyone else who's going to watch a movie that they're highly anticipating.  And if I think there's something wrong with the film, I'll point it out.  But you can't hold it against me if I happen to love it.  Though I have little doubt that you probably will.

But that'll be your problem if you do.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Who gave it 5 stars? Metacritic shows the highest rating as 3 / 5.


Speed Racer The Wachowski Brothers achieve a divine vision of psychedelic visual ecstasy--you won't believe the sheer amount of color on the screen at any given time—while digging deep into a campy comic/dramatic tone that works for audiences of all ages. Emile Hirsch leads a flawless cast as the title character who carries the death of his car-racing brother Rex Racer as a constant inspiration to win races for his family's racing business. Anti-corporate themes abound as the sport's predatory company Royalton Industries tries to bring Speed and his family to the dark side of greed. Far-out racing sequences, ninja attacks, and a budding romance between Speed and his girlfriend Trixie (perfectly played by Christina Ricci) attend the trippy visual fun. Like a revved-up turbo mix of Warren Beatty's "Dick Tracy" with 1982's "Tron," "Speed Racer" is a blast from start to finish. Rated PG (A) (Five Stars)-- Cole Smithey

Source

< Message edited by max314 -- 8/5/2008 6:23:44 PM >


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MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

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Post #: 85
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 6:52:08 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18305
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
It is a question I have myself.  Having trawled through a few dozen reviews (not a recommended action) I have found a few 4 star, quite a few 3 and 2 star and a few 1 star but no 5 star?

That answers that one.  But isn't Cole Smithey a blogger?

< Message edited by sanchia -- 8/5/2008 6:55:41 PM >


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Post #: 86
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 6:53:20 PM   
max314


Posts: 2768
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
Just posted it in my last post, mon frère.


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MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

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Post #: 87
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 7:04:35 PM   
Larry of Arabia

 

Posts: 7576
Joined: 28/2/2007
From: Turtle Island
quote:


With the amount of shit I've had to put up with from people like you over the past 5 years, I'm the one who should be "infuriated" if anyone.  And yet here I am, in the middle of my exams, taking time out to address your points in an intelligent and coherent way.


Sounds like grade A moaning to me.

Excuse me a moment... my heart is bleeding.

< Message edited by Larry of Arabia -- 8/5/2008 7:05:48 PM >


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Post #: 88
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 7:11:36 PM   
max314


Posts: 2768
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

Sounds like grade A moaning to me.


Well, I think more intelligent and mature people will realise that it was actually a way of telling someone else not to moan.

quote:

Excuse me a moment... my heart is bleeding.


Oh, goody.  You just made my day


_____________________________

MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

(in reply to Larry of Arabia)
Post #: 89
RE: Speed Racer - 8/5/2008 7:14:14 PM   
Larry of Arabia

 

Posts: 7576
Joined: 28/2/2007
From: Turtle Island
Oops, I must have missed that amid all the swearing and insults peppered about most of your posts.

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Post #: 90
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