Register  |   Log In  |  
Sign up to our weekly newsletter    
Follow us on   
Search   
Forum Home Register for Free! Log In Moderator Tickets FAQ Users Online

Speed Racer...

 
Logged in as: Guest
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Film Forums] >> Film Reviews >> Speed Racer... Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Speed Racer... - 6/5/2008 12:12:20 PM   
Barraluke


Posts: 931
Joined: 7/4/2008
From: Knoxville, Tennesse
Speed Racer features stunning revolutionary graphics; to be honest we would expect nothing less from The Wachowski brothers after their phenomenal Matrix trilogy. However promisig this film sounds, there is a downside: we know this story too well. The Main character wants to avenge his family member/friend by succeeding where he/she failed. He is tempted against this, but ultimately comes through to victory. Sound familiar? Of course.
On the upside, Emile Hirsh marks himself out as a future star, while Fox does very well in his role. A three star for film, a five star for wacky graphics. A good film though. But Iron Man is the better movie.

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 31
RE: Speed Racer... - 6/5/2008 4:27:01 PM   
max314


Posts: 2707
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Barraluke

Speed Racer features stunning revolutionary graphics; to be honest we would expect nothing less from The Wachowski brothers after their phenomenal Matrix trilogy. However promisig this film sounds, there is a downside: we know this story too well. The Main character wants to avenge his family member/friend by succeeding where he/she failed. He is tempted against this, but ultimately comes through to victory. Sound familiar? Of course.
On the upside, Emile Hirsh marks himself out as a future star, while Fox does very well in his role. A three star for film, a five star for wacky graphics. A good film though. But Iron Man is the better movie.


But isn't Iron Man just a rehashed origin story of the Spider-Man and Batman Begins variety?

Y'know, character has a fatal flaw, he undergoes a physical and psychological change, and by the midpoint of the movie he has become the titular superhero?


_____________________________

MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

(in reply to Barraluke)
Post #: 32
RE: Speed Racer - 6/5/2008 4:30:42 PM   
max314


Posts: 2707
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: alpat24

I saw a preview this weekend and took my nephew along, he half enjoyed it, said it was OK and mainly enjoyed the races and laughed heartily at the monkey (me too, but I just find monkies funny). But found alot of it confusing and abit overwhelming.

Some alternative opinions to your rave reviews posted (and more the majority view I would warrant)
You might admire it as a Warholian blur of pop art, gawp and gasp at its Hot Wheels-for-real dynamism, or get a headache -
Ian Nathan  Empire Magazine

It's an eyesore, a shambles, with incoherent action and ear-buckling dialogue.
David Edelstein  New York Magazine

Unlike a Pixar cartoon that embraces as wide an audience as possible, Speed Racer proudly denies entry into its ultra-bright world to all but gamers, fanboys and anime enthusiasts.
Kirk Honeycutt Hollywood Reporter

Unfortunately the Wachowski Brothers have lucked out again, not down to there visionary visual style. But the fact they haven't got an ear for good dialogue and haven't the knack of getting the best out of characters, and have no idea how to string together a coherent narrative.


The film is obviously going to be divisive.  That was apparent from the earliest reactions to the pre-release pictures and fotage.

I think it's all about which state of mind one watches the film.  I mean, you can't go into a romantic comedy and judge it on the merits of an action movie


_____________________________

MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

(in reply to alpat24)
Post #: 33
RE: Speed Racer - 6/5/2008 4:31:55 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: alpat24

I saw a preview this weekend and took my nephew along, he half enjoyed it, said it was OK and mainly enjoyed the races and laughed heartily at the monkey (me too, but I just find monkies funny). But found alot of it confusing and abit overwhelming.

Some alternative opinions to your rave reviews posted (and more the majority view I would warrant)
You might admire it as a Warholian blur of pop art, gawp and gasp at its Hot Wheels-for-real dynamism, or get a headache -
Ian Nathan  Empire Magazine

It's an eyesore, a shambles, with incoherent action and ear-buckling dialogue.
David Edelstein  New York Magazine

Unlike a Pixar cartoon that embraces as wide an audience as possible, Speed Racer proudly denies entry into its ultra-bright world to all but gamers, fanboys and anime enthusiasts.
Kirk Honeycutt Hollywood Reporter

Unfortunately the Wachowski Brothers have lucked out again, not down to there visionary visual style. But the fact they haven't got an ear for good dialogue and haven't the knack of getting the best out of characters, and have no idea how to string together a coherent narrative.


It's currently at 42/100 on Metacritic at the moment. Admittedly it's only based on 6 reviews but Max declared it a hit based on 1 review!

_____________________________

You're killing Independent George!!!!

(in reply to alpat24)
Post #: 34
RE: Speed Racer - 6/5/2008 4:57:21 PM   
Larry of Arabia

 

Posts: 7576
Joined: 28/2/2007
From: Turtle Island
Going by the quote from Ian Nathan used in alpat24's post, you could almost, almost, believe that there's more to the review than the two words in Max's (completely unbiased I'm sure) sig.

_____________________________

"Everything was beautiful and nothing hurt."


(in reply to Wilbert)
Post #: 35
RE: Speed Racer - 6/5/2008 6:17:08 PM   
max314


Posts: 2707
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert

It's currently at 42/100 on Metacritic at the moment. Admittedly it's only based on 6 reviews but Max declared it a hit based on 1 review!


Whether or not it's "a hit" is for audiences to decide.  Not that it's in any way indicative of quality.

And the Metacritic ratings will suffer since the film is so highly divisive.  The higher rated reviews will be tempered by the lower ones, and my guess is the film will therefore end up with something around a 50% rating.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

Going by the quote from Ian Nathan used in alpat24's post, you could almost, almost, believe that there's more to the review than the two words in Max's (completely unbiased I'm sure) sig.


I'm just pointing out the stuff that excites me most.  I've cited the sources so people can follow up any of the reviews I've quoted.



_____________________________

MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

(in reply to Larry of Arabia)
Post #: 36
RE: Speed Racer - 6/5/2008 9:49:07 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
Don't forget The New Yorker!

quote:

Anthony Lane, The New Yorker

I reckon the M.P.A.A. should use the advent of "Speed Racer” to revive an old ratings symbol: a big Roman X, meaning "of no conceivable interest to anyone over the age of ten.”



_____________________________

I tried to groan, Help! Help! But the tone that came out was that of polite conversation.

Empire Top 100 Albums Poll 2013: CLICK HERE

(in reply to alpat24)
Post #: 37
RE: Speed Racer... - 6/5/2008 10:07:45 PM   
krudler


Posts: 7018
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barraluke

Speed Racer features stunning revolutionary graphics; to be honest we would expect nothing less from The Wachowski brothers after their phenomenal Matrix trilogy. However promisig this film sounds, there is a downside: we know this story too well. The Main character wants to avenge his family member/friend by succeeding where he/she failed. He is tempted against this, but ultimately comes through to victory. Sound familiar? Of course.
On the upside, Emile Hirsh marks himself out as a future star, while Fox does very well in his role. A three star for film, a five star for wacky graphics. A good film though. But Iron Man is the better movie.


But isn't Iron Man just a rehashed origin story of the Spider-Man and Batman Begins variety?

Y'know, character has a fatal flaw, he undergoes a physical and psychological change, and by the midpoint of the movie he has become the titular superhero?



just like The Matrix then


_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

3D moving images are not films, they're holograms, and should be treated as a separate medium of storytelling, or artform.


(in reply to max314)
Post #: 38
RE: Speed Racer... - 6/5/2008 10:12:57 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: krudler

quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barraluke

Speed Racer features stunning revolutionary graphics; to be honest we would expect nothing less from The Wachowski brothers after their phenomenal Matrix trilogy. However promisig this film sounds, there is a downside: we know this story too well. The Main character wants to avenge his family member/friend by succeeding where he/she failed. He is tempted against this, but ultimately comes through to victory. Sound familiar? Of course.
On the upside, Emile Hirsh marks himself out as a future star, while Fox does very well in his role. A three star for film, a five star for wacky graphics. A good film though. But Iron Man is the better movie.


But isn't Iron Man just a rehashed origin story of the Spider-Man and Batman Begins variety?

Y'know, character has a fatal flaw, he undergoes a physical and psychological change, and by the midpoint of the movie he has become the titular superhero?



just like The Matrix then




No, Krudler, The Matrix is the greatest movie ever! And it's sequels are the greatest movies ever! And if you thought they were boring, turgid claptrap then it is you who are not smart enough to understand them! And The Architect is one of the "most iconic characters" ever in the history of cinema and not just the result of the Wachowski's thinking a thesaurus can help disguise dialogue that is a load of balls!



That's right, isn't it Max?

_____________________________

You're killing Independent George!!!!

(in reply to krudler)
Post #: 39
RE: Speed Racer - 6/5/2008 11:13:27 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18002
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
quote:

ORIGINAL: max314

Well, we've seen Total Film's negative review, but here's a collection of some pretty exciting opinions:
  • "Thrilling" and "triumphantly visual".  (Empire)
  • "Visually astonishing...groundbreaking triumph".  "The Wachowskis back on groundbreaking form".  (IGN UK)
  • "The term 'rollercoaster ride' was all but invented to describe it."  (Den of Geek)
  • "The kind of visual spectacle that demands to be seen - and preferably on the biggest screen you can possibly find."  (Film4)
  • "An awesome, heart-thumping super-kinetic spectacle which will have you gripping the sides of your seat in terror and exhilaration."  (The Telegraph)
  • "Speed Racer is a blast from start to finish.  Five stars."  (Cole Smithey)


  • Do you work for a poster quote company?

    _____________________________

    Nothing to see here.



    (in reply to max314)
    Post #: 40
    RE: Speed Racer... - 6/5/2008 11:46:18 PM   
    LEEJGM


    Posts: 1039
    Joined: 21/12/2005
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wilbert


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: krudler

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: max314

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Barraluke

    Speed Racer features stunning revolutionary graphics; to be honest we would expect nothing less from The Wachowski brothers after their phenomenal Matrix trilogy. However promisig this film sounds, there is a downside: we know this story too well. The Main character wants to avenge his family member/friend by succeeding where he/she failed. He is tempted against this, but ultimately comes through to victory. Sound familiar? Of course.
    On the upside, Emile Hirsh marks himself out as a future star, while Fox does very well in his role. A three star for film, a five star for wacky graphics. A good film though. But Iron Man is the better movie.


    But isn't Iron Man just a rehashed origin story of the Spider-Man and Batman Begins variety?

    Y'know, character has a fatal flaw, he undergoes a physical and psychological change, and by the midpoint of the movie he has become the titular superhero?



    just like The Matrix then




    No, Krudler, The Matrix is the greatest movie ever! And it's sequels are the greatest movies ever! And if you thought they were boring, turgid claptrap then it is you who are not smart enough to understand them! And The Architect is one of the "most iconic characters" ever in the history of cinema and not just the result of the Wachowski's thinking a thesaurus can help disguise dialogue that is a load of balls!



    That's right, isn't it Max?


    I've just realised that Max's ongoing defence of the Matrix sequels is corrupting this whole forum thread by thread like a sort of Agent Smith of arguments.  Spooky.....


    (in reply to Wilbert)
    Post #: 41
    RE: Speed Racer - 6/5/2008 11:51:26 PM   
    Rgirvan44


    Posts: 19038
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    From: Punishment Park
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanchia

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: max314

    Well, we've seen Total Film's negative review, but here's a collection of some pretty exciting opinions:
  • "Thrilling" and "triumphantly visual".  (Empire)
  • "Visually astonishing...groundbreaking triumph".  "The Wachowskis back on groundbreaking form".  (IGN UK)
  • "The term 'rollercoaster ride' was all but invented to describe it."  (Den of Geek)
  • "The kind of visual spectacle that demands to be seen - and preferably on the biggest screen you can possibly find."  (Film4)
  • "An awesome, heart-thumping super-kinetic spectacle which will have you gripping the sides of your seat in terror and exhilaration."  (The Telegraph)
  • "Speed Racer is a blast from start to finish.  Five stars."  (Cole Smithey)


  • Do you work for a poster quote company?


    Has the mighty Paul Ross made his views about the film known yet?:

    _____________________________

    It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


    (in reply to sanchia)
    Post #: 42
    RE: Speed Racer - 7/5/2008 12:09:28 AM   
    LEEJGM


    Posts: 1039
    Joined: 21/12/2005
    That twat should have been shot for saying Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes was the best action movie ever.
    He'll just say whatever hasn't been said so far just to get noticed.

    (in reply to Rgirvan44)
    Post #: 43
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 9:29:15 AM   
    krudler


    Posts: 7018
    Joined: 30/9/2005
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wilbert


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: krudler

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: max314

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Barraluke

    Speed Racer features stunning revolutionary graphics; to be honest we would expect nothing less from The Wachowski brothers after their phenomenal Matrix trilogy. However promisig this film sounds, there is a downside: we know this story too well. The Main character wants to avenge his family member/friend by succeeding where he/she failed. He is tempted against this, but ultimately comes through to victory. Sound familiar? Of course.
    On the upside, Emile Hirsh marks himself out as a future star, while Fox does very well in his role. A three star for film, a five star for wacky graphics. A good film though. But Iron Man is the better movie.


    But isn't Iron Man just a rehashed origin story of the Spider-Man and Batman Begins variety?

    Y'know, character has a fatal flaw, he undergoes a physical and psychological change, and by the midpoint of the movie he has become the titular superhero?



    just like The Matrix then




    No, Krudler, The Matrix is the greatest movie ever! And it's sequels are the greatest movies ever! And if you thought they were boring, turgid claptrap then it is you who are not smart enough to understand them! And The Architect is one of the "most iconic characters" ever in the history of cinema and not just the result of the Wachowski's thinking a thesaurus can help disguise dialogue that is a load of balls!



    That's right, isn't it Max?


    oh thats right I forgot, its not that the Matrix trilogy has plotholes and flaws, its MEANT to be like that, it makes it more intellectual when its makes no sense as to why things are happening, us poor dullards just dont get the references

    d'oh silly me



    _____________________________

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

    3D moving images are not films, they're holograms, and should be treated as a separate medium of storytelling, or artform.


    (in reply to Wilbert)
    Post #: 44
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 10:15:44 AM   
    Walkerboy


    Posts: 3022
    Joined: 30/9/2005
    I won't be in a hurry to even see it on DVD....
    From the trailers it looks like F-Zero meets Sonic the Hedgehog on the 360 i.e. too many bright colours moving too fast!

    I get groggy playing Sonic or any game like that, so this is guaranteed to make me want to vomit.......

    _____________________________

    "The Internet is a communication tool used the world over where people can come together to bitch about movies and share pornography with one another."

    (in reply to krudler)
    Post #: 45
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 10:25:35 AM   
    badassmofo


    Posts: 1324
    Joined: 14/10/2005
    From: Russian Literature
    The visuals are quite simply some of the most kinetic I have ever seen on screen and are rather staggering when watching for just over 2 hours. Problem is, the story whic revolves around trying to influence the stock market, something sure to draw the kids in, is just too complicated and distracting and to be honest, the bad guy could have just had his racers cheat because he wanted to win and that would have sufficed and cut the film down to a more manageable running time. It also does not help that the opening 45 minutes or so are suprisingly slow as we get flashback after flashback and then a ridiculously long tour of the bad guys company, both of which could have been easily handled in 30 minutes. The Wachowskis again deliver a bit of a bloated epic but the cast are all throoughly good and are very committed and the visuals really do help mask over the cracks during the film, it just makes you feel a bit empty afterwards.

    Oh and anything involving the chimp is gold.

    _____________________________

    You just got killed by a Daewoo Lamos motherfucker - Best line of 2008

    Cinerama - News, reviews, features and listener feedback every week by your Empire Online friend badassmofo! (I sound like a non-badassmofo I know...) On iTunes or cinerama.jellycast.com



    (in reply to Walkerboy)
    Post #: 46
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 3:48:30 PM   
    max314


    Posts: 2707
    Joined: 30/9/2005
    From: London
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: krudler

    just like The Matrix then



    No, because Neo actually rejects his mantle as the One at the midpoint of The Matrix.

    He half accepts it when he fights Smith in the subway, and only actually fulfills the mantle in the closing couple of minutes.

    Oh, and Neo's name isn't "The Matrix".

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wilbert

    No, Krudler, The Matrix is the greatest movie ever! And it's sequels are the greatest movies ever! And if you thought they were boring, turgid claptrap then it is you who are not smart enough to understand them! And The Architect is one of the "most iconic characters" ever in the history of cinema and not just the result of the Wachowski's thinking a thesaurus can help disguise dialogue that is a load of balls!



    That's right, isn't it Max?


    Indeed.

    The Architect's scene does what every good scene should do - it moves the plot and presents the hero with a genuine conflict.  And what could be a more genuine conflict than having to choose between saving your species and saving the woman you love?

    Also, the way in which the Architect speaks is perfectly in synch with the pompous, retentive nature of his character.  That "thesaurus" comment is usually made by people who don't appreciate that, and can't think of a legimtimate criticism of a masterfully designed scene.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanchia

    Do you work for a poster quote company?


    Oh, I see what you did there.  Congratulations.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LEEJGM

    I've just realised that Max's ongoing defence of the Matrix sequels is corrupting this whole forum thread by thread like a sort of Agent Smith of arguments.  Spooky.....


    A defence doesn't exist without an attack, friend.

    If people didn't just mindlessly attack the films and assume it was the truth, then I wouldn't have to rebuke their narrow-minded, post hoc ergo propter hoc bullshit.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: krudler

    oh thats right I forgot, its not that the Matrix trilogy has plotholes and flaws, its MEANT to be like that, it makes it more intellectual when its makes no sense as to why things are happening, us poor dullards just dont get the references

    d'oh silly me


    Yeah, silly you.

    Any half-wit can pick up a Christian reference here or a Hindu reference there.  That's never been my argument.  The 'Roots of the Matrix' disc in the 'Ultimate Matrix Collection' can walk you through enough of those.

    But you didn't start off talking about references, did you?  No, you started off talking about "plot" holes and flaws.

    "Plot" and "references" are not the same thing, genius.

    And, pray tell, what are these "plot holes and flaws" you talk of?  What is it that doesn't make sense?  Because there's nothing in the main body of the trilogy's story that can't be explained.

    Or maybe it was just you who couldn't understand those things.  "Poor dullard"

    < Message edited by max314 -- 7/5/2008 3:51:06 PM >


    _____________________________

    MAX

    Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

    (in reply to krudler)
    Post #: 47
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 4:39:17 PM   
    krudler


    Posts: 7018
    Joined: 30/9/2005
    You really have no sense of humour about this do you? and your constant "im right and you're all wrong because you just dont GET IT" attitude just makes you come off like a condescending twat so get over yourself, everyones entitled to their own opinions of a film and becuase most people aren't and shouldnt have to be willing to wade through different books and comics and games to round out a storyline that should have been summed up in the movies themselves doesnt mean they arent entitled to not like the matrix sequels, i love the first movie, I really do its a masterpiece, but the sequels are unecessarily bloated with characters that dont do anything and stories that its hard to care about, I honestly didnt give two shits about anyone in Zion save Morpheus in the 3rd movie and saw that whole attack as overlong and eventually got dull, the superbrawl however was superb, and that one shot of Neo and Smith running towards each other in the rain contained more meaning and emotion than the entire Zio/Sentinel attack sequence

    The sequels are perfectly watchable (in places) movies but they're not the be all and end all of sci-fi as you're making them out to be so relax

    < Message edited by krudler -- 7/5/2008 4:40:38 PM >


    _____________________________

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

    3D moving images are not films, they're holograms, and should be treated as a separate medium of storytelling, or artform.


    (in reply to max314)
    Post #: 48
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 5:05:16 PM   
    Wilbert


    Posts: 9511
    Joined: 5/10/2005
    From: Dublin: Ireland

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: max314

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: krudler

    just like The Matrix then



    No, because Neo actually rejects his mantle as the One at the midpoint of The Matrix.

    He half accepts it when he fights Smith in the subway, and only actually fulfills the mantle in the closing couple of minutes.

    Oh, and Neo's name isn't "The Matrix".

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wilbert

    No, Krudler, The Matrix is the greatest movie ever! And it's sequels are the greatest movies ever! And if you thought they were boring, turgid claptrap then it is you who are not smart enough to understand them! And The Architect is one of the "most iconic characters" ever in the history of cinema and not just the result of the Wachowski's thinking a thesaurus can help disguise dialogue that is a load of balls!



    That's right, isn't it Max?


    Indeed.

    The Architect's scene does what every good scene should do - it moves the plot and presents the hero with a genuine conflict.  And what could be a more genuine conflict than having to choose between saving your species and saving the woman you love?

    Also, the way in which the Architect speaks is perfectly in synch with the pompous, retentive nature of his character.  That "thesaurus" comment is usually made by people who don't appreciate that, and can't think of a legimtimate criticism of a masterfully designed scene.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanchia

    Do you work for a poster quote company?


    Oh, I see what you did there.  Congratulations.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LEEJGM

    I've just realised that Max's ongoing defence of the Matrix sequels is corrupting this whole forum thread by thread like a sort of Agent Smith of arguments.  Spooky.....


    A defence doesn't exist without an attack, friend.

    If people didn't just mindlessly attack the films and assume it was the truth, then I wouldn't have to rebuke their narrow-minded, post hoc ergo propter hoc bullshit.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: krudler

    oh thats right I forgot, its not that the Matrix trilogy has plotholes and flaws, its MEANT to be like that, it makes it more intellectual when its makes no sense as to why things are happening, us poor dullards just dont get the references

    d'oh silly me


    Yeah, silly you.

    Any half-wit can pick up a Christian reference here or a Hindu reference there.  That's never been my argument.  The 'Roots of the Matrix' disc in the 'Ultimate Matrix Collection' can walk you through enough of those.

    But you didn't start off talking about references, did you?  No, you started off talking about "plot" holes and flaws.

    "Plot" and "references" are not the same thing, genius.

    And, pray tell, what are these "plot holes and flaws" you talk of?  What is it that doesn't make sense?  Because there's nothing in the main body of the trilogy's story that can't be explained.

    Or maybe it was just you who couldn't understand those things.  "Poor dullard"


    What a humourless person you are, Max. You act like you write all of this stuff in the hope that the Wachowski's will read it and become your friend.

    You really defend it way too much. I just don't know why you care so much. If you were defending your own work, I'd say that you were right to do so but this is someone elses work.

    If you want to know what the flaws are in the sequels, then this might help; they're dull. Whatever about the story being complex/preposterous and difficult to follow/nonsensical it all rests on the fact that the sequels are told in a very dull manner. If all of the detail and logic that you claim is in the sequels is actually there then the Wachowski's have done a terrible job in communicating it because most people find the films to be confusing.

    I'd also be willing to bet that you didn't watch the sequels and understand every little bit first time round. You probably had to read a lot of supplementary materials to understand what exactly was happening and you shouldn't have to do that. The films should work on their own and the fact that so many people had problems with them shows that they don't.

    I know you like to smugly tell people that it's their problem that they can't understand them but I'm as smart as the next guy and I found them to be rambling nonsense written by people who might have claimed to have had a trilogy worked out in advance but clearly didn't.

    Also your argument that parts 2 and 3 are essentially one big movie doesn't wash either.

    They are poor films that trade on the good will people had for the first and no amount of fan-boy drooling and Wachowski ass-kissing from you is going to change my mind.

    You're staggeringly blind to the Wachowski's limitations. It's obvious from your signature and your selective use of quotes that ignore the fact that many reviewers don't have much to say that is complimentary beyond the quality of the CGI.

    _____________________________

    You're killing Independent George!!!!

    (in reply to max314)
    Post #: 49
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 5:05:43 PM   
    max314


    Posts: 2707
    Joined: 30/9/2005
    From: London
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: krudler

    You really have no sense of humour about this do you?


    You call that "humour"?

    quote:

    and your constant "im right and you're all wrong because you just dont GET IT" attitude just makes you come off like a condescending twat so get over yourself, everyones entitled to their own opinions of a film and becuase most people aren't and shouldnt have to be willing to wade through different books and comics and games to round out a storyline that should have been summed up in the movies themselves doesnt mean they arent entitled to not like the matrix sequels, i love the first movie, I really do its a masterpiece, but the sequels are unecessarily bloated with characters that dont do anything and stories that its hard to care about, I honestly didnt give two shits about anyone in Zion save Morpheus in the 3rd movie and saw that whole attack as overlong and eventually got dull, the superbrawl however was superb, and that one shot of Neo and Smith running towards each other in the rain contained more meaning and emotion than the entire Zio/Sentinel attack sequence

    The sequels are perfectly watchable (in places) movies but they're not the be all and end all of sci-fi as you're making them out to be so relax


    You're one to talk.

    I don't state my opinions on the trilogy with any less confidence than all the naysayers.  It's only because I don't agree with the rest of the Matrix-bashing bandwaggon jumpers that I get singled out for making the type of "I'm right, you're wrong" statements that pretty much everyone makes.  So stop lecturing me on how I should express my fucking opinions.

    And I never once said you have to "wade through different books and comics and games to round out a storyline that should have been summed up in the movies themselves".  All that does is highlight your ignorance of the films, since Reloaded and Revolutions function as a complete narrative.  The extra material can enhance and enrich the experience, sure.  But they are not necessary to enjoy it.

    Morpheus' role in the third film is totally different to what it was before.  In fact, it's the first time in the trilogy that we see him undergoing a real change.  I'm aware that some people don't like the idea of their resident Matrix badass having a crisis of conscience as he re-evaluates his place in the world, but it adds to the long term depth and quality of the film.  And if you didn't care for the Zion siege, the only thing I can say is that I disagree.  Whether or not you like it is down to personal preference.  And I think it was a masterfully executed battle scene.

    And on the "you don't get it" argument, that was a completely objective statement.  You said there were "plot holes" and "flaws".  You still haven't said what they are.  Maybe you've got so used to just saying it for the hell of it that it just rolls out of your mouth every time you talk about them - a short cut "criticism" that doesn't actually mean jack shit in reality, but sounds like an impressively scathing indictment without actually having any backbone to it.  Because I'm positive I can highlight your "plot holes" and "flaws" to be mere misunderstandings on your part.  Which would consequently prove my "you just don't get it" position.

    Hey, is it really my fault when people don't understand things and then criticise them as "holes" and "flaws"?

    I don't think so.


    _____________________________

    MAX

    Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

    (in reply to krudler)
    Post #: 50
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 5:10:24 PM   
    LEEJGM


    Posts: 1039
    Joined: 21/12/2005
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: max314

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: krudler

    just like The Matrix then



    No, because Neo actually rejects his mantle as the One at the midpoint of The Matrix.

    He half accepts it when he fights Smith in the subway, and only actually fulfills the mantle in the closing couple of minutes.

    Oh, and Neo's name isn't "The Matrix".

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wilbert

    No, Krudler, The Matrix is the greatest movie ever! And it's sequels are the greatest movies ever! And if you thought they were boring, turgid claptrap then it is you who are not smart enough to understand them! And The Architect is one of the "most iconic characters" ever in the history of cinema and not just the result of the Wachowski's thinking a thesaurus can help disguise dialogue that is a load of balls!



    That's right, isn't it Max?


    Indeed.

    The Architect's scene does what every good scene should do - it moves the plot and presents the hero with a genuine conflict.  And what could be a more genuine conflict than having to choose between saving your species and saving the woman you love?

    Also, the way in which the Architect speaks is perfectly in synch with the pompous, retentive nature of his character.  That "thesaurus" comment is usually made by people who don't appreciate that, and can't think of a legimtimate criticism of a masterfully designed scene.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanchia

    Do you work for a poster quote company?


    Oh, I see what you did there.  Congratulations.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LEEJGM

    I've just realised that Max's ongoing defence of the Matrix sequels is corrupting this whole forum thread by thread like a sort of Agent Smith of arguments.  Spooky.....


    A defence doesn't exist without an attack, friend.

    If people didn't just mindlessly attack the films and assume it was the truth, then I wouldn't have to rebuke their narrow-minded, post hoc ergo propter hoc bullshit.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: krudler

    oh thats right I forgot, its not that the Matrix trilogy has plotholes and flaws, its MEANT to be like that, it makes it more intellectual when its makes no sense as to why things are happening, us poor dullards just dont get the references

    d'oh silly me


    Yeah, silly you.

    Any half-wit can pick up a Christian reference here or a Hindu reference there.  That's never been my argument.  The 'Roots of the Matrix' disc in the 'Ultimate Matrix Collection' can walk you through enough of those.

    But you didn't start off talking about references, did you?  No, you started off talking about "plot" holes and flaws.

    "Plot" and "references" are not the same thing, genius.

    And, pray tell, what are these "plot holes and flaws" you talk of?  What is it that doesn't make sense?  Because there's nothing in the main body of the trilogy's story that can't be explained.

    Or maybe it was just you who couldn't understand those things.  "Poor dullard"


    It does in your case friend.  Why can't you just drop it and accept that the majority of people think the Matrix sequels aren't very good.  People aren't mindlessly attacking them.  They are stating their opinions.  To 'mindlessly attack' the movies would be to slate them without having seen them.  Isn't it also mindless to say Speed Racer officially 'rocks' despite the reviews being somewhat mixed and you haven't even seen it yet? 

    (in reply to max314)
    Post #: 51
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 5:15:07 PM   
    Kazuya


    Posts: 7978
    Joined: 23/8/2006
    From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai
    Haven't you already started a thread for discussing the Matrix? Let's keep the subject solely focused on Speed Racer here. I'm actually looking forward to it.


    _____________________________

    "Bleed, bastard."

    (in reply to max314)
    Post #: 52
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 5:26:05 PM   
    krudler


    Posts: 7018
    Joined: 30/9/2005
    I reckon its going to tank, kids may like it but aside from the fanboys I  can't see many people going to this who are casual cinemagoers,it looks too mental, could do well on dvd though, even seeing the trailer on a cinema screen is headache inducing so sitting through 2 hours or however long of it is going to be hard

    _____________________________

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

    3D moving images are not films, they're holograms, and should be treated as a separate medium of storytelling, or artform.


    (in reply to Kazuya)
    Post #: 53
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 5:33:46 PM   
    max314


    Posts: 2707
    Joined: 30/9/2005
    From: London
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wilbert

    What a humourless person you are, Max. You act like you write all of this stuff in the hope that the Wachowski's will read it and become your friend.

    You really defend it way too much. I just don't know why you care so much. If you were defending your own work, I'd say that you were right to do so but this is someone elses work.


    I write this stuff because I read stupid comments and feel compelled to point out their stupidity.

    What's the problem?

    quote:

    If you want to know what the flaws are in the sequels, then this might help; they're dull. Whatever about the story being complex/preposterous and difficult to follow/nonsensical it all rests on the fact that the sequels are told in a very dull manner. If all of the detail and logic that you claim is in the sequels is actually there then the Wachowski's have done a terrible job in communicating it because most people find the films to be confusing.


    "Dull" is a purely subjective criticism.

    You found them dull.  I found them rivetting.

    But that's not a point worth arguing, because we could sit here for years gonig "it rocks!", "it sucks!", "it rocks!", "it sucks!".

    What I tend to pick out are actual technical points with regards to the script, the characters, the structure...tangible technical points that actually have some weight in discourse, and not just the usual "I liked it", "I hated it" bullshit.

    I also respond to underhanded personal attacks.  That is personal, and I'd rather those kinds of comments didn't exist.  But they do.  And I have a right to respond.

    quote:

    I'd also be willing to bet that you didn't watch the sequels and understand every little bit first time round. You probably had to read a lot of supplementary materials to understand what exactly was happening and you shouldn't have to do that. The films should work on their own and the fact that so many people had problems with them shows that they don't.


    And what exactly qualifies you to say what a film "should" do?

    The Wachowskis are innovators who broken more cinematic ground in one decade than you will probably do in a lifetime.  And part of the reason for that is their progressive view that cinema should push itself in brave, new directions.  If the Brothers just sat there with your regressive mindset, they wouldn't have made the mark on cinema that they have today.

    And no, I didn't understand the films completely on the first viewing.  Nor would I expect anyone else to.  Which is why I try to steer clear of the fruitless "I liked it", "I hated it" arguments, preferring rather to debate technical points instead.  I also think it's stupid when people say "oh, the films had plot holes and flaws!" when they clearly don't know enough about the films to make those quantitative judgements.

    So saying "it's shit" is fine.  But saying "it has plot holes" is not, because then you're starting to discuss technical points, and you can't do that if you're not fully informed about the technical aspects of the film.

    It's pretty fucking simple.

    quote:

    I know you like to smugly tell people that it's their problem that they can't understand them but I'm as smart as the next guy and I found them to be rambling nonsense written by people who might have claimed to have had a trilogy worked out in advance but clearly didn't.


    It's not about being smug.

    If someone tells me that 2+2=5, me correcting their mistake and saying "you're wrong...this is the right answer" should be considered a favour.  It's more likely your own sense of insecurity if you think "ugh, he's being smug for telling me the truth".

    Not saying you're dumb.  But not everyone understands everything all of the time.  That's why the internet is such a great place for cross-polination and evolution of ideas.  If you just close the doors everytime someone offers you a new perspective and accuse them of being smug, then you're failing the first stage of learning - to know that you know nothing.  To dissolve your ego.  To be prepared to listen.

    You can't help or educate someone who doesn't want to be helped or educated.

    And, again, you call it "rambling" and insist that the trilogy doesn't work.  But these are all purely unsubstantiated, subjective points that simply can't be argued, except for me saying "I disagree".  What the fuck kind of a discussion is that?

    quote:

    Also your argument that parts 2 and 3 are essentially one big movie doesn't wash either.


    Again, no substantiation.

    Just an empty assertion.

    The only thing I can say here is "I disagree".

    I've given you a whole in-depth post on the structure of Reloaded and Revolutions to rebuke, and the best you can do is that is "doesn't wash"?

    What do you want me to say, except "you're wrong"?

    quote:

    They are poor films that trade on the good will people had for the first and no amount of fan-boy drooling and Wachowski ass-kissing from you is going to change my mind.


    My goal is not to change your mind.  I don't mind if it does get changed, and I certainly think it would be in your interest to change it.  But it's not my goal.

    My goal is simply to put the information out there.  So that people who like the films feel it's okay to like Reloaded and Revolutions, and don't have to be stuck in a rut of the narrow-minded, uninformed comments.  So that one particular view of the trilogy doesn't become the monopoly.  So that people realise it's okay to have an opinion away from the consensus, many of whom simply don't have the strength of will or knowledge to form their own opinion, and so stick with the safe majority like little sheep.

    quote:

    You're staggeringly blind to the Wachowski's limitations. It's obvious from your signature and your selective use of quotes that ignore the fact that many reviewers don't have much to say that is complimentary beyond the quality of the CGI.


    It's the first Wachowski-directed film since The Matrix Trilogy, and I'm bloody excited.

    The comments I've posted are the ones that excite me the most and that I like to be reminded of every time I make a post.

    And the fact that cinema is primarily a visual medium means that the complements of the film's visuals (which were always going to be the film's forte - the story, like the Indy films, is going to be "set piece driven" and not "plot driven", which is fine by me), is something to be be very excited about.

    And what the fuck is it to you, anyway?


    _____________________________

    MAX

    Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

    (in reply to Wilbert)
    Post #: 54
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 5:36:34 PM   
    sam89


    Posts: 561
    Joined: 1/5/2008
    IMO, this film looks like it's going to be very creative and just plain fun. Sure, I can imagine there will be a few flaws (perhaps overdoing the style in places or the childish humour), but I'm really looking forward to it.

    (in reply to krudler)
    Post #: 55
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 5:43:33 PM   
    max314


    Posts: 2707
    Joined: 30/9/2005
    From: London
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LEEJGM

    It does in your case friend.  Why can't you just drop it and accept that the majority of people think the Matrix sequels aren't very good.  People aren't mindlessly attacking them.  They are stating their opinions.  To 'mindlessly attack' the movies would be to slate them without having seen them.  Isn't it also mindless to say Speed Racer officially 'rocks' despite the reviews being somewhat mixed and you haven't even seen it yet? 


    Oh, I accept that the majority of people don't think the Matrix sequels are very good.

    But that don't mean I gotta take the criticisms that I disagree with lying down, does it?

    And the "Speed Racer rocks" comment in my sig comes from the glowing reviews given by Alex Billington and other  sources from advanced screenings who really do think it rocks.  What's the problem?

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Kazuya

    Haven't you already started a thread for discussing the Matrix? Let's keep the subject solely focused on Speed Racer here. I'm actually looking forward to it.


    Indeed.

    It was krudler who brought it up.  He knew what would happen if he mentioned it, and yet he did it anyway.  Which is rather telling...

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: krudler

    I reckon its going to tank, kids may like it but aside from the fanboys I  can't see many people going to this who are casual cinemagoers,it looks too mental, could do well on dvd though, even seeing the trailer on a cinema screen is headache inducing so sitting through 2 hours or however long of it is going to be hard


    Well, that's a pretty sad way to look at it.

    I think the film is going to be a visual feast that will demand to be seen on the biggest screen you can find.

    And I reckon it's going to do better at the box office than people are expecting.  Plus the foreign box office will probably be huge.


    _____________________________

    MAX

    Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

    (in reply to LEEJGM)
    Post #: 56
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 5:45:47 PM   
    Kazuya


    Posts: 7978
    Joined: 23/8/2006
    From: The Eighth Dimension c/o Buckaroo Banzai
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: krudler

    I reckon its going to tank, kids may like it but aside from the fanboys I  can't see many people going to this who are casual cinemagoers,it looks too mental, could do well on dvd though, even seeing the trailer on a cinema screen is headache inducing so sitting through 2 hours or however long of it is going to be hard


    I'm not sure, I think it could do pretty healthy business, a lot of people will keep away from it because of it's bubblegum, heavily colorful nature, as well as the fact that it's mostly a film for kids, or anime obsessives such as myself, but let's say that all the kids, all the anime fans and a significant portion of people who just go to the movies for spectacle, or racing in general, actually go see it, it could be a surprise. I've been wrong before though and Speed Racer could just be the ghastly, worthless eyesore some people have proclaimed it to be, but I'll make up my own mind, from what I've seen so far, it looks pretty good. I'm looking forward to seeing it for the racing, the pristine effects, the digital anime feel of it, not for story depth or characterization, just for fun. Sometimes that's good But as I said it's definitely not for everyone and I have no problem with that.


    _____________________________

    "Bleed, bastard."

    (in reply to krudler)
    Post #: 57
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 7:27:52 PM   
    sanchia


    Posts: 18002
    Joined: 3/1/2006
    From: Norwich
    Just out of curiosity who here has actually seen Speed Racer to be able to make a balanced (the key word with no obsessive skewed biases one way or the other and for god, buddha and whoever elses sake no more Matrix) opinion of it?   I notice that Rottentomatoes gives it a 33% rating which suggests that overall critics have not been kind but at the same time recognise that critics are definitely not the be all and end all of movie opinion. 

    < Message edited by sanchia -- 7/5/2008 7:37:51 PM >


    _____________________________

    Nothing to see here.



    (in reply to Kazuya)
    Post #: 58
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 8:43:25 PM   
    max314


    Posts: 2707
    Joined: 30/9/2005
    From: London
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sanchia

    Just out of curiosity who here has actually seen Speed Racer to be able to make a balanced (the key word with no obsessive skewed biases one way or the other and for god, buddha and whoever elses sake no more Matrix) opinion of it?   I notice that Rottentomatoes gives it a 33% rating which suggests that overall critics have not been kind but at the same time recognise that critics are definitely not the be all and end all of movie opinion. 


    The film's been flip-flopping between 30% and 45% on the T-Meter.  My guess is that it will end up somewhere between 40% and 50% owing to its highly divisive visual style, with just over half the critics not liking it.


    _____________________________

    MAX

    Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

    (in reply to sanchia)
    Post #: 59
    RE: Speed Racer... - 7/5/2008 8:51:57 PM   
    Larry of Arabia

     

    Posts: 7576
    Joined: 28/2/2007
    From: Turtle Island
    Is it not at all possible that critics are allowed to not like it for other reasons than for it's visual style? You seem to be certain that this is the only reason, and a reason that conveniently deflects blame away from the Wachowskis because 'you either get it or you don't' and it's 'divisive' by nature, as you keep saying.

    _____________________________

    "Everything was beautiful and nothing hurt."


    (in reply to max314)
    Post #: 60
    Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
    All Forums >> [Film Forums] >> Film Reviews >> Speed Racer... Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
    Jump to:





    New Messages No New Messages
    Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
    Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
     Post New Thread
     Reply to Message
     Post New Poll
     Submit Vote
     Delete My Own Post
     Delete My Own Thread
     Rate Posts


     
    Movie News  |  Empire Blog  |  Movie Reviews  |  Future Films  |  Features  |  Video Interviews  |  Image Gallery  |  Competitions  |  Forum  |  Magazine  |  Resources
     
    Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

    0.172