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RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 6:15:43 PM   
James2183


Posts: 10540
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H
Why does everyone pretend that by watching Munich or United 93 that they've learned something profound and significant about terrorism? What the hell are you or I ever going to do about terrorism besides disapprove of it? What do these films even genuinely teach us about terrorism?


To be honest I don't think the films you speak of are specifically made to raise questions about terrorism even though the stories revolve around them. The fact that United 93 didn't focus on the terrorists specifically and showed how the average person reacts in said situation instead shows the tone of the film. There was no political angle on the film, merely a retelling of events of what happened.

As for Munich, yes terrorism was a major part of it but it seemed to raise the questions about morality and where one drawns the line in dealing with revenge.



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(in reply to Lydia_H)
Post #: 481
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 6:17:47 PM   
Breakneck

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 21/2/2008
Okay, took me two days to get back to a computer - at the very least I'm glad a debate has started instead of some of the happy clappy bullshit that's been going on. For the record, JJ Abrams is not a genius, he's a hack. Watch Mission Impossible 3. It's pants. So what though, since he didn't direct Cloverfield. Matt Reeves did. Sort of.

Middleburn to answer you specifically :

"Ok, so you'd prefer several supermodels sitting around debating the new Don Giovanni whilst a giant, rubber but still on-camera, monster who takes care to not knock down buildings and kill people walks around is shown Michael Bay style crane shot? Or something which represents people who are, well, real, and occaisionally annoying as real people have that annoying tendency to be."

Talk about missing the point - the point is there are NO ugly drunk people at the party. At all. They are all pretty little actors who know when to look at the camera and how to hit their mark. It's artifice, and in a film supposedly pretending to be from a realistic standpoint, ie using a camcorder, its obvious artifice. They do not represent the people I see at parties. That is to say, normal people who are not always articulate, and for a whom a camcorder means "piss off with that thing." And frankly I'd like a nice Michael Bay crane shot from time to time. Just an idea. And my point re : knocking over buildings is, I WANT people to die, i WANT to feel the terror, the sheer unpredictability of it. If the only people who die do so offscreen, or happen to be the brother of the pretty boy whose going after the pretty girl, it dosn't quite have the impact, does it ?

Hee hee : "Have you ever tried to comfort someone during grief? On that occaision you can't quite find the Shakespearean or, no doubt more to your taste, Truffautian*, words to try and offer your condolences. Thats reality there, same with the footage, the cameraman wasn't really placed well to take in a panoramic Steadicam tracking shot." Yes I have had to comfort someone whose brother has just been eaten by a giant sperm. And man did i spout some trouffouet and shakespeare. People ALWAYS find words to speak at these things because it is when we are at our most considered. They may not be shakespear, but we choose our words very carefully in these circumstances because we do not want to add to the hurt. Therefore, hey man sorry your brother's dead is a wanky, glib line. And the camera is constantly placed in such a position as to take in the most panoramic, cinematic views. Why else would the twat carry it across a fallen building ?

What in the name of god are you talking about ? Conspiracy theory ? Again, talk about missing the point - my point is that instead of humanising terrorism, utilising such specific footage creates a monster of it. That's all.

"You say the movie was all over the place, I think you are mate in your analysis of it (or was calling you mate not art-form enough for you? Am I too ugly to be allowed to do that?)" The movie is all over the place bud, sorry, it is. It has no tone, throws in scenes from Starship Troopers for some gung ho bally wack, then goes for some jolly ho glibness, and just for the sake of it whips in some Titanic romance tragedy. Shit, SOMETHING will stick with the kids so they'll pay money to come back again. Again - check that self loathing "mate," look at yourself in the mirror and say "i'm NOT too ugly, I'm NOT too ugly." They are all pretty. That is to say, they are photogenic. That's my point. It's not that i want toothless rubes, it's that I want people with a little bit more personality.

"Did you pay to see No Country For Old Men, ended up in the wrong screen but stayed put to avoid looking stupid?" Actually people walked out of the showing i was at. Should have joined them and gone to the pub.

"For the record I couldn't disagree more, it was one of the most immersive, terrifying and fantastic cinematic experiences I've ever had." Immersive ? Terrifying ? You must be able to put your head right into that screen my friend. Wish i had that talent. It's pants. Just as i have been accused of walking into the cinema all ready to hate, a lot of people seem to want to keep their head in the sand because they went in already loving it. Because after all - JJ Abrams is a genius. Actually, you know what? I think that might just be accurate after all.



(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 482
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 6:33:36 PM   
Lydia_H


Posts: 3799
Joined: 26/11/2006
quote:

Yes Mac & Me was a potential Oscar contender.


Spielberg could have a cokehead Gorilla direct Air Bud sequels for him and he'd probably pick up a few Oscar nominations, that doesn't mean they'd be quality films

quote:

Popularity first? Surely the fact that he is able to craft films that are entertaining and memorable would be first on the list. Well to some people anyway...


Believe me, I'm a veteran of arguments about Spielberg


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Post #: 483
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 6:41:50 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19039
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

quote:

Yes Mac & Me was a potential Oscar contender.


Spielberg could have a cokehead Gorilla direct Air Bud sequels for him and he'd probably pick up a few Oscar nominations, that doesn't mean they'd be quality films



But the point is he hasn't.

Is it inevitable that no matter what the film is, a film discussion will eventully come around to talking about the merits of Lucas/Spielberg/Jackson/Cameron?

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Post #: 484
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 6:41:59 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20116
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

Believe me, I'm a veteran of arguments about Spielberg



You can say that again...




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Post #: 485
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 6:53:47 PM   
Breakneck

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 21/2/2008
Lydia - I'm lazy and haven't read back on the rest of your argument, but your's is a brave statement - and one I'm inclined to agree with.

IMO Spielberg occupies the same space as Scorcese in that whole adulation for nothing film world. Spielberg in particular has made a selection of sloppy movies in the last decade, from Saving Private Ryan's hammer-home unsubtlety, Schindler's List's inability to keep the story away from sentimentality ( and the odd choice to tell the story not from the point of the Jewish communities, but from a German aristocrat's - akin to telling the story of apartheid from the point of view of a herioic white angel. Yes I know it's Shindler's List but why ? See the Pianist for a PROPER film about world war 2 from the point of the persecuted Jews ), to Minority Report's laughable attempts at darkness ( my son is dead, and I'm a drug addict ) to the horrific AI - forget the ending, lap up the techincally impossible "moon balloon," and the hugely entertaining use of a metal band to show "bad" people - to the disgrace that is War of the Worlds - Tom Cruise as an everyman ( where's Kurt Russell when you need him ? ), running around and becoming a good father while avoiding those pesky heat rays. Oh, had it not been for those aliens would he EVER have gotten back in touch with his humanity ? Don't get me started on Munich, a naive and clumsy "political thriller" that is so unsubtle it has to resort to that glaring-thumb image of the twin towers at the end, just in case we missed the point.

I'm being accused of rambling, and this is the cloverfield backslapping club here, so I'll wrap up. Suffice to say, Spielberg is part of that strange elite of film-makers who simply have to make a film in order for it to be lauded. Watch this space for the adventures of a seventy year old Indy.

(in reply to Lydia_H)
Post #: 486
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:00:20 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

quote:



How does this "tend to an audiences ego"? What does that sentence even mean?


Why does everyone pretend that by watching Munich or United 93 that they've learned something profound and significant about terrorism? What the hell are you or I ever going to do about terrorism besides disapprove of it? What do these films even genuinely teach us about terrorism?




Wow, you're amazing, Lydia! You know what Spielberg is really thinking when he makes his films and you know what people who watch them are thinking and even pretending to think!

I never used to believe in psychic powers but you've turned me around, Lydia!



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Post #: 487
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:03:52 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19039
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

quote:



How does this "tend to an audiences ego"? What does that sentence even mean?


Why does everyone pretend that by watching Munich or United 93 that they've learned something profound and significant about terrorism? What the hell are you or I ever going to do about terrorism besides disapprove of it? What do these films even genuinely teach us about terrorism?




Wow, you're amazing, Lydia! You know what Spielberg is really thinking when he makes his films and you know what people who watch them are thinking and even pretending to think!

I never used to believe in psychic powers but you've turned me around, Lydia!




I want to know what scene in United 93 was trying to teach us about terrorism.

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Post #: 488
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:07:25 PM   
Breakneck

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 21/2/2008
The bit at the end taught us not to let terrorists onto planes.

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Post #: 489
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:09:15 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


I want to know what scene in United 93 was trying to teach us about terrorism.


They ALL were, Rgirvan44!

Greengrass wasn't trying to make a responsible film about that flight. He just got a load of non-actors, including people who were actually involved on the day, to tell a story that was ultimately heading for a very unhappy ending just so as he could rake in the cash!!!

I mean, it's obvious, THAT'S how you clean up in Hollywood; non-actors+depressing subject matter+downbeat ending = box office and spin-off merchandising gold!!!! Not to mention the inevitable sequels!

You don't see that, Rgirvan44?

I feel sorry for you!

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Post #: 490
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:13:18 PM   
Breakneck

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 21/2/2008
"I mean, it's obvious, THAT'S how you clean up in Hollywood; non-actors+depressing subject matter+downbeat ending = box office and spin-off merchandising gold!!!! Not to mention the inevitable sequels!"

Which brings us neatly back to Cloverfield y'all.

< Message edited by Breakneck -- 24/2/2008 7:20:45 PM >

(in reply to Wilbert)
Post #: 491
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:15:55 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19039
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


I want to know what scene in United 93 was trying to teach us about terrorism.


They ALL were, Rgirvan44!

Greengrass wasn't trying to make a responsible film about that flight. He just got a load of non-actors, including people who were actually involved on the day, to tell a story that was ultimately heading for a very unhappy ending just so as he could rake in the cash!!!

I mean, it's obvious, THAT'S how you clean up in Hollywood; non-actors+depressing subject matter+downbeat ending = box office and spin-off merchandising gold!!!! Not to mention the inevitable sequels!

You don't see that, Rgirvan44?

I feel sorry for you!


Boy do I feel stupid!

United 93 - 2: Holy War.
Directed by Michael Bay
Produced by Tony Scott

_____________________________

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Post #: 492
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:18:48 PM   
Lydia_H


Posts: 3799
Joined: 26/11/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

quote:



How does this "tend to an audiences ego"? What does that sentence even mean?


Why does everyone pretend that by watching Munich or United 93 that they've learned something profound and significant about terrorism? What the hell are you or I ever going to do about terrorism besides disapprove of it? What do these films even genuinely teach us about terrorism?




Wow, you're amazing, Lydia! You know what Spielberg is really thinking when he makes his films and you know what people who watch them are thinking and even pretending to think!

I never used to believe in psychic powers but you've turned me around, Lydia!




I'm only speculating, I assure you

Anyway, have you ever listened to people talking about United 93 or Munich?

quote:


Greengrass wasn't trying to make a responsible film about that flight. He just got a load of non-actors, including people who were actually involved on the day, to tell a story that was ultimately heading for a very unhappy ending just so as he could rake in the cash!!!

I mean, it's obvious, THAT'S how you clean up in Hollywood; non-actors+depressing subject matter+downbeat ending = box office and spin-off merchandising gold!!!! Not to mention the inevitable sequels!


Or possibly he was taking advantage of one incident within 9/11 that no one gave a rats ass about at the time, allowing us a rare opportunity to prove to everyone that truly we cared for those people and our thoughts will always be with them?

(Pander to audience ego = Acclaim! )

Otherwise it was a generic hijacking flick, not much different to anything we've seen before


< Message edited by Lydia_H -- 24/2/2008 7:21:33 PM >


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Post #: 493
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:27:59 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19039
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

quote:



How does this "tend to an audiences ego"? What does that sentence even mean?


Why does everyone pretend that by watching Munich or United 93 that they've learned something profound and significant about terrorism? What the hell are you or I ever going to do about terrorism besides disapprove of it? What do these films even genuinely teach us about terrorism?




Wow, you're amazing, Lydia! You know what Spielberg is really thinking when he makes his films and you know what people who watch them are thinking and even pretending to think!

I never used to believe in psychic powers but you've turned me around, Lydia!




I'm only speculating, I assure you

Anyway, have you ever listened to people talking about United 93 or Munich?

quote:


Greengrass wasn't trying to make a responsible film about that flight. He just got a load of non-actors, including people who were actually involved on the day, to tell a story that was ultimately heading for a very unhappy ending just so as he could rake in the cash!!!

I mean, it's obvious, THAT'S how you clean up in Hollywood; non-actors+depressing subject matter+downbeat ending = box office and spin-off merchandising gold!!!! Not to mention the inevitable sequels!


Or possibly he was taking advantage of one incident within 9/11 that no one gave a rats ass about at the time, allowing us a rare opportunity to prove to everyone that truly we cared for those people and our thoughts will always be with them?

(Pander to audience ego = Acclaim! )

Otherwise it was a generic hijacking flick, not much different to anything we've seen before



Examples?

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 494
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:32:57 PM   
Lydia_H


Posts: 3799
Joined: 26/11/2006
So you think United 93 would've been a pioneering film without 9/11?

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Post #: 495
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:40:09 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19039
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

So you think United 93 would've been a pioneering film without 9/11?


Well I was asking you for other examples of other hijack movies which are similar to United 93.

And of course United 93 wouldn't have been made without 9/11. So I'm not sure what your point is here.

Also United 93 wasn't pioneering even in Paul Greengrass's work. Bloody Sunday used similar techniques a few years before United 93.

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 496
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:47:35 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H


Or possibly he was taking advantage of one incident within 9/11 that no one gave a rats ass about at the time, allowing us a rare opportunity to prove to everyone that truly we cared for those people and our thoughts will always be with them?

(Pander to audience ego = Acclaim! )




Lydia, you're making the mistake of thinking that everyone is as cynical as you are.



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You're killing Independent George!!!!

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Post #: 497
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:52:26 PM   
Mr Terrific


Posts: 1639
Joined: 15/7/2006
quote:

And of course United 93 wouldn't have been made without 9/11. So I'm not sure what your point is here.


Zing.
9/11 was a world shaping event so it was going to be prevalent in most forms of media and entertainment whether on purpose or not.

I am not sure shades of 9/11 were all that the film Cloverfield was about.
There was mucho destruction..that was all.

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Post #: 498
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:57:29 PM   
Lydia_H


Posts: 3799
Joined: 26/11/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

So you think United 93 would've been a pioneering film without 9/11?


Well I was asking you for other examples of other hijack movies which are similar to United 93.

And of course United 93 wouldn't have been made without 9/11. So I'm not sure what your point is here.

Also United 93 wasn't pioneering even in Paul Greengrass's work. Bloody Sunday used similar techniques a few years before United 93.


Exactly, no one would bother making a film about a hijacking these days unless they could attach it to real life tragedy, it's a stale formula that can only be revived by piggybacking on actual events. Are these films and directors to be admired for the good sense to take advantage of this?

If it weren't for 9/11 United 93 probably would've been in the shadow of action guff like Executive Decision and dismissed as too boring. But of course there many other films about terrorism and hijacking and hostage situations and what not


< Message edited by Lydia_H -- 24/2/2008 7:58:41 PM >


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Post #: 499
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 7:58:56 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20116
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
Could have sworn this was a Cloverfield review thread......

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Post #: 500
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 8:08:05 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19039
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

So you think United 93 would've been a pioneering film without 9/11?


Well I was asking you for other examples of other hijack movies which are similar to United 93.

And of course United 93 wouldn't have been made without 9/11. So I'm not sure what your point is here.

Also United 93 wasn't pioneering even in Paul Greengrass's work. Bloody Sunday used similar techniques a few years before United 93.


Exactly, no one would bother making a film about a hijacking these days unless they could attach it to real life tragedy, it's a stale formula that can only be revived by piggybacking on actual events. Are these films and directors to be admired for the good sense to take advantage of this?

If it weren't for 9/11 United 93 probably would've been in the shadow of action guff like Executive Decision and dismissed as too boring. But of course there many other films about terrorism and hijacking and hostage situations and what not



But no one here is suggesting that United 93 would have been made if the events of 9/11 didn't occur. And Executive Decision is an action movie - it bathes in cliche and crowd pleasing - thats its purpose.

United 93 was an attempt to give people an idea what it must have felt like being in the plane. The sheer terror of the event. It's impact comes from knowing that this event really happened.

Its apple and organes compraing the two. Its fine not liking United 93, there are plenty of people who feel the same. But your view that it is somehow "same old, same old" doesn't hold water. I can think of zero big budget Hollywood studio films that have real life incident tackled like this.

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Post #: 501
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 8:40:14 PM   
dracovir


Posts: 1546
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Wolverhampton, England
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H

So you think United 93 would've been a pioneering film without 9/11?


Well I was asking you for other examples of other hijack movies which are similar to United 93.

And of course United 93 wouldn't have been made without 9/11. So I'm not sure what your point is here.

Also United 93 wasn't pioneering even in Paul Greengrass's work. Bloody Sunday used similar techniques a few years before United 93.


Exactly, no one would bother making a film about a hijacking these days unless they could attach it to real life tragedy, it's a stale formula that can only be revived by piggybacking on actual events. Are these films and directors to be admired for the good sense to take advantage of this?

If it weren't for 9/11 United 93 probably would've been in the shadow of action guff like Executive Decision and dismissed as too boring. But of course there many other films about terrorism and hijacking and hostage situations and what not



Okies.

The point of United 93 was to tell what was essentially one of the more 'untold' stories of that day.  That the plane did not reach the terrorists' target, inflicting God knows what kinds of death and destruction, so it as a news item lacked the newsworthiness compared to the other 3 planes that day.  (Remember the plane that crashed over Queens the following month?  It was swallowed up by media coverage first pondering if it was another attack, then after it emerged it wasn't it was swallowed up by the coverage of Afghanistan.)

And for all you cynics out there, the film was given the thumbs up by the families of those who had been on board.  For Greengrass, it had been an 'all or nothing' thing - had any one estate said no, the film would not have happened.  The real-time, documentary feel of it gave it an edge sorely missing from many other films of similiar subject matter.

The assumption that Speilberg had a scene with the WTC obviously shoe-horned in the background there as an obvious reference to remind the audience that it was the birth of modern terrorism that (indirectly) lead to 9/11 is a little too far on the cynical side I think.  Did it not occur to you that the real life events upon which Munich is based might've involved some of the relevent people meeting in the vicinity of the Towers?  I think having a film set in the New York of before 2001 missing the Towers would be even more obvious due to their absence.  It's better to remember that they were there, rather than omit them as if they never existed before that day.

And finally, what does all this have to do with Cloverfield?  The only possible direct reference to the events near the tail-end of 2001 is someone's quip of 'could it be terrorism?' as they all head up to the rooftop to get a better view just after the first roar is heard.  And that never felt to me like a reference; it seems perfectly realistic that, should something big happen like that to these people, the initial knee-jerk reaction would  be to first ponder the possibility of another terrorist attack.  But that's all.

I'm still not understanding why some people feel that the film is devoid of originality.  Blair Witch did the camcorder thing before it?  Godzilla did the big-budget New York destruction first?  Well, neither were first in their respective conceptions, yet Cloverfield is the first one to merge the two together.  If doing something previously unheard of before is not originiality, then what is?

It still is a top film in my book, one of the best cinematic spectacles I have seen in a looooong time.  As different from any other film as it could be, and well worthy of each of it's 5 stars as awarded.  It's a shame I can't break the meter and give it more stars out of 5.

< Message edited by dracovir -- 24/2/2008 8:43:29 PM >


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Post #: 502
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 8:53:34 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15397
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
Would this conversation be happening if Cloverfield was set in LA instead of New York..... 

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Post #: 503
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 9:01:31 PM   
dracovir


Posts: 1546
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Wolverhampton, England
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Would this conversation be happening if Cloverfield was set in LA instead of New York..... 


Nah, I bet folks would be bitching about how unrealistic it is because Jack Bauer wasn't there to kick Clover's ass.


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Post #: 504
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 9:02:40 PM   
Fletcher


Posts: 1161
Joined: 15/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Breakneck
Schindler's List's inability to keep the story away from sentimentality ( and the odd choice to tell the story not from the point of the Jewish communities, but from a German aristocrat's - akin to telling the story of apartheid from the point of view of a herioic white angel. Yes I know it's Shindler's List but why ? See the Pianist for a PROPER film about world war 2 from the point of the persecuted Jews ),


Its an adaptation of the book Schindlers Ark, which in turn was based on true events, and a story that effected Speilberg when he heard it and wanted to tell the tale, thats why its based on a German aristocrat and not the jewish communities.

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Post #: 505
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 9:12:07 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15397
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: dracovir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Would this conversation be happening if Cloverfield was set in LA instead of New York..... 


Nah, I bet folks would be bitching about how unrealistic it is because Jack Bauer wasn't there to kick Clover's ass.





So, anyone else want to actually review the film?


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Post #: 506
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 9:26:48 PM   
Lydia_H


Posts: 3799
Joined: 26/11/2006
quote:



But no one here is suggesting that United 93 would have been made if the events of 9/11 didn't occur. And Executive Decision is an action movie - it bathes in cliche and crowd pleasing - thats its purpose.

United 93 was an attempt to give people an idea what it must have felt like being in the plane. The sheer terror of the event. It's impact comes from knowing that this event really happened.

Its apple and organes compraing the two. Its fine not liking United 93, there are plenty of people who feel the same. But your view that it is somehow "same old, same old" doesn't hold water. I can think of zero big budget Hollywood studio films that have real life incident tackled like this.


I just think it's damaging to cinema when films are judged on whichever cause or event they associate themselves with, not on actual qualities.

quote:

And for all you cynics out there, the film was given the thumbs up by the families of those who had been on board. For Greengrass, it had been an 'all or nothing' thing - had any one estate said no, the film would not have happened.


What does that matter? Those families don't have any more specific knowledge of what happened on that plane, their interest in the film was having their relatives and friends portrayed as heroes, I don't really see how their approval makes it any more credible or authoritative to be honest.

quote:

I think having a film set in the New York of before 2001 missing the Towers would be even more obvious due to their absence.  It's better to remember that they were there, rather than omit them as if they never existed before that day.


So every film set in New York with a setting before 2001 needs the obligatory Twin Towers shot now?

Anyway, I'm sorry for taking this thread off topic I feel like I have a duty to watch Cloverfield now




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Post #: 507
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 9:32:04 PM   
Larry of Arabia

 

Posts: 7576
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From: Turtle Island
You mean you haven't even seen it?

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Post #: 508
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 9:33:19 PM   
Lydia_H


Posts: 3799
Joined: 26/11/2006
No 

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Post #: 509
RE: Cloverfield - 24/2/2008 10:10:00 PM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lydia_H
Those families don't have any more specific knowledge of what happened on that plane, their interest in the film was having their relatives and friends portrayed as heroes, I don't really see how their approval makes it any more credible or authoritative to be honest.





Well, the air-traffic controller guy in the film was playing himself and he felt it was an accurate portrayal of that event. There were phonecalls made from the plane to the families on the ground and they also felt it was an accurate portrayal, so I'd say it's pretty "credible" and "authoritative".

Also, how can you say something as horrible as saying that the survivors were only interested in having their friends and relatives portrayed as heroes?

Thats a pretty misanthropic thing to say.

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Post #: 510
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