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RE: Superman Returns - 22/7/2012 10:02:01 AM

film man aidy

Posts: 277
Joined: 8/3/2007

Flawed, but still the third best Superman movie ever made. Empire went a tad overboard on the ***** rating, but it is still a ****1/2 from me because of my fondness for the charcter, and the way he was portrayed. Loved the addition of Brando(and all the refences to the look of the first two movies), Spacey's(and Routh's for that matter) performance, the stunning visuals, the shuttle rescue, use of music...
I did have issues with Bosworth's Lois and THAT kid, and the open ended nature of the film . Does anyone actually make a movie these days with a non sequel bait ending?! - Luthor and Clark not having a more definative final face off, Clark losing Lois to James Marsden, the kid's future...I would have loved a follow up, but 'Returns' should have had more closure at the end. Then any future sequel should have had something new to bring to table, not filling in old plot points.
So flawed, but less so than 'The Dark Knight Rises'.

Not Guilty.

Superman The Movie *****
Superman II *****
Superman III ***
Superman IV *1/2
Superman Returns ****1/2

.....'The Dark Knight Rises ****

(in reply to Lazarus munkey)

Post #: 211

RE: Superman Returns - 26/7/2012 4:57:47 PM

rambof07

Posts: 4
Joined: 24/5/2012

I think it is that movies which impressed too much to the children because they love that kind of movies and second one is spider man which is awesome and last time i watched it's new movie which was in 3d and amazing.

(in reply to benmharper)

Post #: 212

RE: Superman Returns - 29/7/2012 7:55:24 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: film man aidy

So flawed, but less so than 'The Dark Knight Rises'.

Superman Returns ****1/2

.....'The Dark Knight Rises ****

Oh come on now.

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Post #: 213

RE: Superman Returns - 30/7/2012 4:01:00 PM

directorscut

Posts: 9852
Joined: 30/9/2005

I haven't seen The Dark Knight Rises, but it's definitely better than The Dark Knight.

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Post #: 214

RE: Superman Returns - 31/7/2012 12:19:57 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

I haven't seen The Dark Knight Rises, but it's definitely better than The Dark Knight.

(in reply to directorscut)

Post #: 215

RE: Superman Returns - 31/7/2012 12:59:08 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6208
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

My two cents on Superman Returns.

It's a pretty good flick, a honest attempt by Singer to make something that isn't just a dumb summer popcorn flick. The level of craft that Singer and his team put into making it is undeniably. Unfortunately, Singer was so busy trying not to make just a studio cash grab that he forgot to make a fun film.

For all their faults, Superman and Superman II were fun films with a playful attitude, and Superman Returns just doesn't have those qualities. Superman Returns is just a little bit too serious for its own good. In fact, I will go so far to say that it's a little bit dour at times.

Casting wise, Brandon Routh is very good in the lead role. There has been a lot of derision flung in Kate Bosworth's direction, but her performance is in no way bad. I think the problem lies in her miscasting, but then again what was she supposed to do? Pass up a mega budget blockbuster that could potentially move her further up the Hollywood food chain?

And then there's Kevin Spacey, who is - and this may prove to be an unpoplular opinion - a better Luthor than Hackman. I mean, God bless Hackman, who is one of the greatest actors to ever grace a cinema screen, but his Luthor was campy pantomime villain.

Spacey's Luthor is a truly evil and menacing motherfucker. He really nails that character, and he pretty much steals the movie, which really comes alive whenever he's on screen. It's a really fantastic performance.

So, in summation, Superman Returns is a flawed but decent and reasonably entertaining film. Sometimes Singer's insistence on framing Superman in Christ like imagery is a little bit on the nose, but there's no denying that Singer had his heart in the right place with his approach to this film. Yeah, for all its gaping flaws I quite this flick.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 31/7/2012 1:00:01 PM >

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Post #: 216

RE: Superman Returns - 31/7/2012 1:22:35 PM

Russ Whitfield

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012

Most of the above. *nods* I've got a lot of love for 'Returns... I didn't agree with the choice to have superkid, but y'know... superkid was kind of the bookend point/theme ("son becomes the father, father becomes the son.." "Even though you've been raised as a human, you are not one of them") so it did work in the context of the film. This is theme they wanted to explore - so he was necessary from that perspective. 'Returns was supposed to be looked at as Superman III, that was made clear from the get go, so yeah... works for me.

Can't have Spacey as better than Hackman though... "You were followed again. In spite of those cat-like reflexes." No, the pantomime villain is a good point, but as stated earlier... Superman the Movie and Superman II do have a sense of fun that 'Returns lacks, so for his time in those movies - he was ace... I felt that Spacey was a bit OTT to be honest. But I can see why some'd disagree, so I think the Joy of Lex is subjective.

Interestingly, though, I read a lot of calls to make Superman a darker character... well, his outlook in Returns is pretty bleak and most people hated the film (for the record - again, I love 'Returns and think its a fitting end to the Donner films).

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Post #: 217

RE: Superman Returns - 31/7/2012 1:47:20 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6208
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

Is Superman Returns supposed to be a direct follow-up to Superman II? Because if it is I think I just figured out a plot hole.

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Post #: 218

RE: Superman Returns - 31/7/2012 2:38:18 PM

Russ Whitfield

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012

I can't quote directly, but in the build-up interviews they were saying that this was the "spiritual sequel" to II and we should forget about III and IV - this is what happens next.

Also, if you look at the incidental details of the movie that reference those movies (not least the Fortress, Jor-El, Lex Luthor's obsession with real estate, the framed articles by Lois that are from the first movie... all that stuff) it definitely wears its sequel heart on its sleeve.

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Post #: 219

RE: Superman Returns - 31/7/2012 2:51:13 PM

directorscut

Posts: 9852
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Is Superman Returns supposed to be a direct follow-up to Superman II? Because if it is I think I just figured out a plot hole.

Yes but I don't think they were being slaves to continuity. We're supposed to remember the main points of I&II, and then they cherry picked the details to best suit their story. I think it would be fruitless as a viewer to question the continuity between films. Some things work, some don't. It's best just to go with the ride.

Although watching I, II and Returns together does improve Returns. There are some wonderful scenes that are reflections of previous scenes that work better with them fresh in the mind, like Superman saving the plane, Superman and Lois flying or Superman talking to his son like Jor-El did. A lot of people said some of these scenes were rehashes of I&II but Singer uses them to show the difference in the characters and their relationships. Wonderful symmetry.

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Post #: 220

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 12:04:22 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Is Superman Returns supposed to be a direct follow-up to Superman II? Because if it is I think I just figured out a plot hole.

Yes but I don't think they were being slaves to continuity. We're supposed to remember the main points of I&II, and then they cherry picked the details to best suit their story. I think it would be fruitless as a viewer to question the continuity between films. Some things work, some don't. It's best just to go with the ride.

Although watching I, II and Returns together does improve Returns. There are some wonderful scenes that are reflections of previous scenes that work better with them fresh in the mind, like Superman saving the plane, Superman and Lois flying or Superman talking to his son like Jor-El did. A lot of people said some of these scenes were rehashes of I&II but Singer uses them to show the difference in the characters and their relationships. Wonderful symmetry.

Nope.Its just Singer rehashing what has already been done before like with the rest of the whole film.Because he and his writers had no original ideas of their own besides the fucked up idea of the superkid plot.

The irony is that Singer ignored Superman 3 and 4 which despite their many flaws ended up being more entertaining that this bloated,self indulgent tosh.

(in reply to directorscut)

Post #: 221

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 12:48:52 PM

Russ Whitfield

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
.Because he and his writers had no original ideas of their own besides the fucked up idea of the superkid plot.

I can't believe you actually believe that.

I've watched the DVD features and diaries of Returns at length and it seemed to me to be a labour of love for Singer. The features were of epic length and whilst you could say "oh, its just a big act," I don't really buy that - they seemed to follow the guy around for too long for him to be feigning enthusiasm over an 18 month period. For me, the 'Returns team wanted to respect Donner's works and put right the debacle of parts III and IV.

To be honest, I've never held much faith in the idea that screenwriters and directors deliberately set out to make a shit movie with the sole purpose of annoying "the true fans." I can't imagine that the writers were sat there saying "How's it going on Superman Returns?" "I can't think of anything for Superman to do." "I know, let's just rip everything off from the other movies... no one will know." "And we'll put a kid in. For a laugh."

Not for me - I think DirectorsCut above sums it nicely above with his point about symmetry. I do feel that a lot of the grief 'Returns get is because it wasn't Superman vs Doomsday with LOTS OF FIGHTING.

I've always thought that the Superman character has resonated for so long is that because his raison d'etre for the past... what... thirty years or so.... has been to save people (or "just lifting heavy stuff" as some would have it). Granted, earlier (and now, in new 52), Superman was all about defending the rights of the little guy (coming from the Depression era, that would have resonated - standing up to corrupt businessmen and all that), but later incarnations were more about "Supes Saves." Sure, Batman beats the shit of baddies, but I don't necessarily think that Superman has to do the same thing.

As for the rehash, I really don't think it is - its more about the themes explored in the first two movies coming to a natural (and more modernised) conclusion. It's by no means a perfect movie, but it is a thoughtful one and explores some dark themes - loneliness, isolation, relevancy, why am I here - all that stuff. Dark doesn't have to mean having your parents gunned down, it can encompass all sorts of other emotions, which I think is what 'Returns attempts to do.

All that said, if some think a pile of derivative shit no one's going to change their mind. For me, I've seen the movie numerous times and loved it - as I said before, and as DirectorsCut points out, its really great if you watch it as part of "the trilogy".

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Post #: 222

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 2:15:17 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6208
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

Excuse me while I laugh at the irony of Breeze's complaints about rehashing things.

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Post #: 223

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 2:18:51 PM

directorscut

Posts: 9852
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Is Superman Returns supposed to be a direct follow-up to Superman II? Because if it is I think I just figured out a plot hole.

Yes but I don't think they were being slaves to continuity. We're supposed to remember the main points of I&II, and then they cherry picked the details to best suit their story. I think it would be fruitless as a viewer to question the continuity between films. Some things work, some don't. It's best just to go with the ride.

Although watching I, II and Returns together does improve Returns. There are some wonderful scenes that are reflections of previous scenes that work better with them fresh in the mind, like Superman saving the plane, Superman and Lois flying or Superman talking to his son like Jor-El did. A lot of people said some of these scenes were rehashes of I&II but Singer uses them to show the difference in the characters and their relationships. Wonderful symmetry.

Nope.Its just Singer rehashing what has already been done before like with the rest of the whole film.Because he and his writers had no original ideas of their own besides the fucked up idea of the superkid plot.

If you knew as much about the first two Superman films as you claim you'd know one of the key themes of the films is about father and son.

quote:

The irony is that Singer ignored Superman 3 and 4 which despite their many flaws ended up being more entertaining that this bloated,self indulgent tosh.

Now that's just silly. Superman III is 90 minutes of Richard Pryor filler and 20 minutes of Superman. It isn't about Superman at all.

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Post #: 224

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 2:26:57 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6208
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

At least Superman Returns doesn't have Mariel Hemingway breathing in space and Superman rebuilding the Great Wall of China with eye lasers.

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Post #: 225

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 2:27:37 PM

matty_b

Posts: 12856
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Excuse me while I laugh at the irony of Breeze's complaints about rehashing things.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Mattyb is a shining example of what the perfect Empire Forum member is.

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Post #: 226

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 2:30:36 PM

directorscut

Posts: 9852
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

At least Superman Returns doesn't have Mariel Hemingway breathing in space and Superman rebuilding the Great Wall of China with eye lasers.

Also the big land mass Superman lifts makes for a much more engaging villain than Nuclear Man.

Better at acting too.

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Post #: 227

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 2:43:49 PM

Russ Whitfield

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012

But not as good in the hair department.

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Post #: 228

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 4:27:14 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

At least Superman Returns doesn't have Mariel Hemingway breathing in space and Superman rebuilding the Great Wall of China with eye lasers.

Yes but at least Superman 3 and 4 dont have The Man Of Steel stalking Lois Lane, crying like a little girl when he gets beaten up by thugs, wrecking citizens cars with The Daily Planet ball, and creeping into little boys bedroom windows.

Fans of Returns defend the film by saying things like '' But Bryan Singer is so passionate about the Donner films and it shows! ''.Singer may have had good intentions but we all know where that sometimes leads! This is exactly why he screwed this movie up big time.He was so in love with the original films that he made his own love letter to them instead of reintroducing Superman to a modern audience.Making a half assed sequel/remake to a set of films made thirty or so odd years ago was lunacy.He should have rebooted Superman as Nolan did so well the year before in Batman Begins.

And lack of action was the least of this films problems.The glorious miscasting of Lois Lane and Perry White ( Frank Langella is a great actor but was too...nice.He should have been cranky like Jackie Coopers version of the character if this was supposedly set in the Donnerverse).Routh was ok as Superman but his version of Clark Kent wasnt up to scratch at all.There was little difference between the two characters compared to Christopher Reeves excellent portrayal.Enough has been writen about the silly Supekid plot ( Check out Kevin Smiths rant on youtube for that! ).

Singer said in a recent interview about the film that he '' Wanted to make a Superhero film that women could see ''.Right Bryan,women do not go see superhero movies AT ALL do they? so why not make Superman into a mega expensive chick flick? No wonder he went running back to the X Men franchise after what most fans reaction to what he did!

Bottom line is that despite the film making money,WB realised that the film didnt justify a sequel which is why the series is being rebooted now like they should have done 6 years ago.Time will tell if that will be worth the wait but its looking good so far but it cant possibly fail to be better than Returns.

Superman Returns is GUILTY! To the gallows with it!

< Message edited by Cool Breeze -- 1/8/2012 4:31:04 PM >

(in reply to MonsterCat)

Post #: 229

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 6:26:15 PM

Russ Whitfield

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012

quote:

Fans of Returns defend the film by saying things like '' But Bryan Singer is so passionate about the Donner films and it shows! ''

To be fair, quite a few more points have been raised other than that and they've been varied in the defence. What I tend to see when people attack this movie is the same points, over and over again - some of which are valid, some of which are just "points that everyone else has raised so I'd better raise them too" - the internet hive mind has much to answer for.

I think when critics bring up "stalking" and so forth, it just illustrates that they've not really understood the film or the character as portrayed in this (loose) trilogy. So perhaps fans of the character "get it" and causal movie-goers don't? I concede that's not a good thing, but as a fan, I "got" it. But I think that I've learned here that the movie should stand up on its own - and perhaps it doesn't for the non-fan? Not sure, could that be the case?

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Post #: 230

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 9:31:31 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russ Whitfield

quote:

Fans of Returns defend the film by saying things like '' But Bryan Singer is so passionate about the Donner films and it shows! ''

To be fair, quite a few more points have been raised other than that and they've been varied in the defence. What I tend to see when people attack this movie is the same points, over and over again - some of which are valid, some of which are just "points that everyone else has raised so I'd better raise them too" - the internet hive mind has much to answer for.

I think when critics bring up "stalking" and so forth, it just illustrates that they've not really understood the film or the character as portrayed in this (loose) trilogy. So perhaps fans of the character "get it" and causal movie-goers don't? I concede that's not a good thing, but as a fan, I "got" it. But I think that I've learned here that the movie should stand up on its own - and perhaps it doesn't for the non-fan? Not sure, could that be the case?

Im a huge fan of the Superman character.The Donner original is one of my favourite movies of all time.I dont '' get it '' because clearly Singer doesnt and made a shit movie.Reeves Superman just wouldnt behave so selfishly and make such questionable decisions like sneaking into a little boys bedroom (even if it was his son).Thats called breaking and entering big guy! If he wanted to see his son he could have just asked Lois.

What Singer just didnt get is that Superman comes to terms with who he is and what he has to do by the end of the second movie.He knows that he can never have a normal life and settle down with Lois and promises to never let the people of earth down again.....Singer would then have us beleive that he would then fuck off into space for six years.

< Message edited by Cool Breeze -- 1/8/2012 9:35:20 PM >

(in reply to Russ Whitfield)

Post #: 231

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 10:02:42 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6208
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

At least Superman Returns doesn't have Mariel Hemingway breathing in space and Superman rebuilding the Great Wall of China with eye lasers.

Yes but at least Superman 3 and 4 dont have The Man Of Steel stalking Lois Lane, crying like a little girl when he gets beaten up by thugs, wrecking citizens cars with The Daily Planet ball, and creeping into little boys bedroom windows.

Fans of Returns defend the film by saying things like '' But Bryan Singer is so passionate about the Donner films and it shows! ''.Singer may have had good intentions but we all know where that sometimes leads! This is exactly why he screwed this movie up big time.He was so in love with the original films that he made his own love letter to them instead of reintroducing Superman to a modern audience.Making a half assed sequel/remake to a set of films made thirty or so odd years ago was lunacy.He should have rebooted Superman as Nolan did so well the year before in Batman Begins.

And lack of action was the least of this films problems.The glorious miscasting of Lois Lane and Perry White ( Frank Langella is a great actor but was too...nice.He should have been cranky like Jackie Coopers version of the character if this was supposedly set in the Donnerverse).Routh was ok as Superman but his version of Clark Kent wasnt up to scratch at all.There was little difference between the two characters compared to Christopher Reeves excellent portrayal.Enough has been writen about the silly Supekid plot ( Check out Kevin Smiths rant on youtube for that! ).

Singer said in a recent interview about the film that he '' Wanted to make a Superhero film that women could see ''.Right Bryan,women do not go see superhero movies AT ALL do they? so why not make Superman into a mega expensive chick flick? No wonder he went running back to the X Men franchise after what most fans reaction to what he did!

Bottom line is that despite the film making money,WB realised that the film didnt justify a sequel which is why the series is being rebooted now like they should have done 6 years ago.Time will tell if that will be worth the wait but its looking good so far but it cant possibly fail to be better than Returns.

Superman Returns is GUILTY! To the gallows with it!

Yes, but... Oh, fuck this, you're really, really boring now.

Consider yourself blocked.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 1/8/2012 10:03:39 PM >

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Post #: 232

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 10:32:18 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

At least Superman Returns doesn't have Mariel Hemingway breathing in space and Superman rebuilding the Great Wall of China with eye lasers.

Yes but at least Superman 3 and 4 dont have The Man Of Steel stalking Lois Lane, crying like a little girl when he gets beaten up by thugs, wrecking citizens cars with The Daily Planet ball, and creeping into little boys bedroom windows.

Fans of Returns defend the film by saying things like '' But Bryan Singer is so passionate about the Donner films and it shows! ''.Singer may have had good intentions but we all know where that sometimes leads! This is exactly why he screwed this movie up big time.He was so in love with the original films that he made his own love letter to them instead of reintroducing Superman to a modern audience.Making a half assed sequel/remake to a set of films made thirty or so odd years ago was lunacy.He should have rebooted Superman as Nolan did so well the year before in Batman Begins.

And lack of action was the least of this films problems.The glorious miscasting of Lois Lane and Perry White ( Frank Langella is a great actor but was too...nice.He should have been cranky like Jackie Coopers version of the character if this was supposedly set in the Donnerverse).Routh was ok as Superman but his version of Clark Kent wasnt up to scratch at all.There was little difference between the two characters compared to Christopher Reeves excellent portrayal.Enough has been writen about the silly Supekid plot ( Check out Kevin Smiths rant on youtube for that! ).

Singer said in a recent interview about the film that he '' Wanted to make a Superhero film that women could see ''.Right Bryan,women do not go see superhero movies AT ALL do they? so why not make Superman into a mega expensive chick flick? No wonder he went running back to the X Men franchise after what most fans reaction to what he did!

Bottom line is that despite the film making money,WB realised that the film didnt justify a sequel which is why the series is being rebooted now like they should have done 6 years ago.Time will tell if that will be worth the wait but its looking good so far but it cant possibly fail to be better than Returns.

Superman Returns is GUILTY! To the gallows with it!

Yes, but... Oh, fuck this, you're really, really boring now.

Consider yourself blocked.

(in reply to MonsterCat)

Post #: 233

RE: Superman Returns - 1/8/2012 11:02:40 PM

directorscut

Posts: 9852
Joined: 30/9/2005

Honestly, you write some of the most pedantic criticism I have ever read.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Reeves Superman just wouldnt behave so selfishly

Are you for real? Superman II was all about how selfish and fallible Superman can be.

quote:

and make such questionable decisions like sneaking into a little boys bedroom (even if it was his son).Thats called breaking and entering big guy! If he wanted to see his son he could have just asked Lois.

Puh-lease. Firstly, "breaking and entering" involves breaking. The window was already open. Secondly, Lois clearly had no problem with Superman seeing his son, so why should anyone with normal mental wiring in the audience have?

quote:

What Singer just didnt get is that Superman comes to terms with who he is and what he has to do by the end of the second movie.He knows that he can never have a normal life and settle down with Lois

It's been five years. People change in five years --- except Cool Breeze, I'm pretty sure you were saying the exact same things when Superman Returns came out.

As for "questionable decisions" how about Superman turning back time (or kissing her) to make Lois forget without her having a say in the matter? Yeah, Superman talking to his son is so much worse than that.

quote:

promises to never let the people of earth down again

Not in the Dick Donner cut he doesn't. Which is the version Singer based his film on. But I'm sure you knew that.

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Post #: 234

RE: Superman Returns - 2/8/2012 12:33:17 AM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6208
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

The scene in which Superman enters the kid's bedroom is only weird and creepy if you process it with an immature mindset. I mean, what's he going to do? Kidnap the kid and make him work for no money in a sweat shop somewhere? It's fucking Superman.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 2/8/2012 12:56:37 AM >

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Post #: 235

RE: Superman Returns - 2/8/2012 7:39:38 AM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

You people are idiots.

Very mature way of contributing to the discussion there.

(in reply to directorscut)

Post #: 236

RE: Superman Returns - 2/8/2012 9:30:07 AM

Russ Whitfield

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012

quote:

Singer would then have us beleive that he would then fuck off into space for six years.

As pointed out, Singer based his movie version on Donner's Cut where Superman makes no such promise. But it draws an interesting parallel with the comics - Superman was forced to execute Zod, Faora and the Non-equivalent in the mid-nineties I think it was - they'd come from some other dimension and the only way he could stop them was by unleashing Kryptonite... he then fucks off into space for five years on a guilt trip. In Superman II, he defeats Zod, Ursa and Non - and fucks off into space for five years. *lol*

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Post #: 237

RE: Superman Returns - 2/8/2012 11:27:51 AM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6208
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

Again, excuse me while I guffaw at another one of Breeze's posts. lol at him talking about maturity.

And I only saw that post when I was logged off.

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Post #: 238

RE: Superman Returns - 2/8/2012 11:44:58 AM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Again, excuse me while I guffaw at another one of Breeze's posts. lol at him talking about maturity.

And I only saw that post when I was logged off.

Lol at you and directorscut without being able to partake in a film discussion without resorting to personal attacks.

(in reply to MonsterCat)

Post #: 239

RE: Superman Returns - 3/8/2012 10:42:47 AM

The Hooded Man

Posts: 2714
Joined: 12/7/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Honestly, you write some of the most pedantic criticism I have ever read.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Reeves Superman just wouldnt behave so selfishly

Are you for real? Superman II was all about how selfish and fallible Superman can be.

quote:

and make such questionable decisions like sneaking into a little boys bedroom (even if it was his son).Thats called breaking and entering big guy! If he wanted to see his son he could have just asked Lois.

Puh-lease. Firstly, "breaking and entering" involves breaking. The window was already open. Secondly, Lois clearly had no problem with Superman seeing his son, so why should anyone with normal mental wiring in the audience have?

quote:

What Singer just didnt get is that Superman comes to terms with who he is and what he has to do by the end of the second movie.He knows that he can never have a normal life and settle down with Lois

It's been five years. People change in five years --- except Cool Breeze, I'm pretty sure you were saying the exact same things when Superman Returns came out.

As for "questionable decisions" how about Superman turning back time (or kissing her) to make Lois forget without her having a say in the matter? Yeah, Superman talking to his son is so much worse than that.

quote:

promises to never let the people of earth down again

Not in the Dick Donner cut he doesn't. Which is the version Singer based his film on. But I'm sure you knew that.

Superman turning back time is probably the most selfish and morally ambiguous thing he's done but yet it never gets used as a stick to beat fans of that film with.

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Counting the minutes until the over zealous mods lock this thread too.

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Post #: 240