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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 15/1/2013 5:29:59 PM   
Scott_

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Jeremie Aliadiere(!!)


This would be hilarious.

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Post #: 6001
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 15/1/2013 5:35:34 PM   
Olaf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_


quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Jeremie Aliadiere(!!)


This would be hilarious.


He *did* make ten appearances in the Invincible season, so it sort of counts -

09/10 - Campbell
10/11 - Lehmann
11/12 - Henry
12/13 - Aliadiere

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Post #: 6002
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 15/1/2013 6:09:19 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8276
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I don't know why I'm sticking up for the lad so much, as I agree he's ridiculously over-valued (probably because I'm an argumentative prick) but anyway

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

Not taking anything away, but that was a cup game against a second-string United team who struggled to get out of the gates,


The team still contained several Premiership-winning players though, including Berba. There's no denying it was an attention-grabbing performance from a player who was still only 18.

quote:


also Robert Snodgrass and Jermaine Beckford did very well against United, so did Exeter City, but we didn't buy Matt Taylor off them for 20 million.


I'm not sure they're a valid comparison. Beckford was 26, and moved to the PL on a free the following summer. Snodgrass was also in his mid-20's, and has also since gone to the PL (though it's always amazed me no-one signed him from Leeds sooner - he was one of the best players in the Championship for a while). And I don't think anyone has ever bought a player off Exeter City for 2m, never mind 20m . The economics change the higher up the food chain you go, and it stands to reason that now Palace are a little more secure financially (for now, anyway), they can hold-out for more for a player. Basically, none of them were a young lad arguably making all the difference.

< Message edited by superdan -- 15/1/2013 10:25:07 PM >

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Post #: 6003
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 15/1/2013 10:38:44 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17339
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quote:

The team still contained several Premiership-winning players though, including Berba. There's no denying it was an attention-grabbing performance from a player who was still only 18.


He did up his game though. Zaha has had several ordinary performances this season, not that you expect him to blow you away every time he plays (no player does that, even Messi has off days, well, okay perhaps not Messi.... but everyone else certainly!) but he does strike me as the kind of player who would also buy into his own ego, he more often than not tries to do it all himself and I've heard tonight he was substituted at half-time of the FA cup replay up at Stoke because he just looked "disinterested" and that's coming from a Palace fan who is up at the game.

quote:

I'm not sure they're a valid comparison. Beckford was 26, and moved to the PL on a free the following summer. Snodgrass was also in his mid-20's, and has also since gone to the PL (though it's always amazed me no-one signed him from Leeds sooner - he was one of the best players in the Championship for a while). And I don't think anyone has ever bought a player off Exeter City for 2m, never mind 20m . The economics change the higher up the food chain you go, and it stands to reason that now Palace are a little more secure financially (for now, anyway), they can hold-out for more for a player. Basically, none of them were a young lad arguably making all the difference.


Beckford didn't adapt to the PL and Snodgrass is doing well (and Leeds fans do actually call him the English Lionel Messi, just ask Scott and Corleone!) at Norwich but not setting anything alight, what about John Bostock then? Simon Jordan wanted 15 million for him, he actually took Spurs to court over it (tosser), he only got 2 million and he's really struggled to establish himself at WHL in any sense, I think he's currently on loan at somewhere like Notts County and his contract expires this summer. I'm not sure how financiall secure Palace are either, I hear lots of rumours and even their own fans are unhappy at their hiked ticket prices, it's certainly not the circumstances it was two to three years ago but if they get a sizeable offer for Zaha he'll be gone, himself and his agent will make sure of that.

As for Exeter, I think with add-ons and bonuses and whatnot, they sold Ryan Harley to Swansea for an amount closing in on 1.5 million I think!

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Post #: 6004
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 15/1/2013 11:13:07 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8276
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella
He did up his game though. Zaha has had several ordinary performances this season, not that you expect him to blow you away every time he plays (no player does that, even Messi has off days, well, okay perhaps not Messi.... but everyone else certainly!) but he does strike me as the kind of player who would also buy into his own ego, he more often than not tries to do it all himself and I've heard tonight he was substituted at half-time of the FA cup replay up at Stoke because he just looked "disinterested" and that's coming from a Palace fan who is up at the game.


Young players always blow a bit hot and cold, so a bit of inconsistency isn't necessarily indicative of a questionable mentality. However I do think all the attention he's got this season may have affected his focus and concentration a bit, which I suppose is understandable. One minute he's just turning up for Palace, the next he's getting begging phonecalls off Drogba, playing for England and being chased by the top PL sides. It might be unrealistic to expect him to be able to perfom to his best with that kind of attention, but I don't know. Maybe he's just a cocky arrogant wanker

quote:


what about John Bostock then? Simon Jordan wanted 15 million for him, he actually took Spurs to court over it (tosser), he only got 2 million and he's really struggled to establish himself at WHL in any sense, I think he's currently on loan at somewhere like Notts County and his contract expires this summer.


John Bostock is one of a small, unusual group of young English players who are either really unlucky or really poorly advised. Stand him next to Connor Wickham, Jose Baxter, Josh McEachran and to a lesser extent Jack Rodwell, Andy Carroll and Daniel Sturridge. Players with obvious talent who perhaps moved to the wrong club at the wrong time, or otherwise never got the chance to kick on at their club for whatever reason. I suppose it remains to be seen if Zaha falls into that kind of list in the future, as I guess it does for any talented young player.


quote:


I'm not sure how financiall secure Palace are either, I hear lots of rumours and even their own fans are unhappy at their hiked ticket prices, it's certainly not the circumstances it was two to three years ago but if they get a sizeable offer for Zaha he'll be gone, himself and his agent will make sure of that.


I think by their standards, they are very secure


< Message edited by superdan -- 15/1/2013 11:14:20 PM >

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Post #: 6005
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 2:44:48 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8061
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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan
John Bostock is one of a small, unusual group of young English players who are either really unlucky or really poorly advised. Stand him next to Connor Wickham, Jose Baxter, Josh McEachran and to a lesser extent Jack Rodwell, Andy Carroll and Daniel Sturridge. Players with obvious talent who perhaps moved to the wrong club at the wrong time, or otherwise never got the chance to kick on at their club for whatever reason. I suppose it remains to be seen if Zaha falls into that kind of list in the future, as I guess it does for any talented young player.


That's quite unfair Wickhams had a change of manager and then injuries so hasn't had chance to establish himself, now Sunderland are struggling so he's in at the deep end. A mid level club like Sunderland was a sensible move.
McEachran is doing well on loan and will have quite a few admirers if Chelsea decide to move him on although they only gave him a new contract 18 months ago.
Rodwell (21) Carroll (24) and Sturridge (23) all have close to or over 100 Premiership appearances to their names so while moves for Sturridge and Carroll might not have paid off, they've been getting game time and learning.



quote:


I'm not sure how financially secure Palace are either, I hear lots of rumours and even their own fans are unhappy at their hiked ticket prices, it's certainly not the circumstances it was two to three years ago but if they get a sizeable offer for Zaha he'll be gone, himself and his agent will make sure of that.


Don't think it would be him or his agent doing the pushing, no Championship club could turn down a 10 Million plus offer for any of their players.


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Post #: 6006
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 3:34:32 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8276
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan
John Bostock is one of a small, unusual group of young English players who are either really unlucky or really poorly advised. Stand him next to Connor Wickham, Jose Baxter, Josh McEachran and to a lesser extent Jack Rodwell, Andy Carroll and Daniel Sturridge. Players with obvious talent who perhaps moved to the wrong club at the wrong time, or otherwise never got the chance to kick on at their club for whatever reason. I suppose it remains to be seen if Zaha falls into that kind of list in the future, as I guess it does for any talented young player.


That's quite unfair Wickhams had a change of manager and then injuries so hasn't had chance to establish himself, now Sunderland are struggling so he's in at the deep end. A mid level club like Sunderland was a sensible move.



So... unlucky then? He's been there for over a year and a half and only started getting a regular run in the team in the last couple of months, and I reckon a lot of that had to do with Sunderland being over-reliant on Fletcher for the first half of the season. I would have thought that after moving for 8m having been very effective at Ipswich he would have expected better (especially since he had been doing the business for the reserves and U-21's).

quote:


McEachran is doing well on loan and will have quite a few admirers if Chelsea decide to move him on although they only gave him a new contract 18 months ago.
Rodwell (21) Carroll (24) and Sturridge (23) all have close to or over 100 Premiership appearances to their names so while moves for Sturridge and Carroll might not have paid off, they've been getting game time and learning.



I didn't mean to imply that I think they're poor players (I don't), but I don't think it's unfair to say that their careers so far haven't lived up to the promise they all carried to one degree or another for a few years now (and I wish to reiterate that I'm not laying blame at the players feet btw). By the time they were 21 both of the players England fans love to hate, Garry Barry and James Milner, were established first team starters for their respective clubs, for instance. So were most of the players who've been regulars for England over the last decade or so. They can easily still go on to to make their mark (and as an England fan I really hope they do), I just think their formative years have been largely underwhelming. Sturridge was unspectacular at both City and Chelsea (though it looks a bit more promising for him after a couple of games at Liverpool), Carroll's career may never fully recover from going to Liverpool, and Rodwell was coming along well for Everton at the end of last season but has hasn't had the best of luck at City so far (although at 21 he's still got plenty of time as long as he can stay fit).

This has all gone a bit off topic, as I type this I can't even remember how the conversation got here

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Post #: 6007
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 3:46:30 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23703
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From: 41N 93W
This isn't bringing this thread on-topic (hey, are Arsenal playing tonight??) but...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltire


quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltire

Bayern really have some squad this year, they must have almost the same strength in depth as Real Madrid. They are going to be very tough to get past.


Almost? They've got a vastly superior team to Madrid, honestly - they were better than them last year, and their signings this year have just improved them in any of their 'weaker' areas (replacing Mario 'good stats' Gomez with Mandzukic comes to mind as particularly effective, and I've regularly said that Javi Martinez was the player Man United's midfield needed). They're the best club team in Europe - and were last year as well, let's be honest - and the only realistic thing stopping them winning the CL is another colossal choke on a par with last season.


Agree with most of your points and yes I was rooting for Bayern in the CL Final and stormed out of the room feeling distinctly bilious when Drogba put that pen away. Bayern will be worth a punt on winning the CL for sure this season, though the way Barca are playing just now, they could be the team yet again. I can also really see Guardiola going to Munich next season also.


Apparently Bild are just reporting that he's signed a deal with Bayern til 2016. Very big news if/when it ends up being confirmed soon.

EDIT confirmed:



LOL Roman.

< Message edited by Olaf -- 16/1/2013 3:54:10 PM >


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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 4:43:07 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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I guess that when Bayern realised they'd not progress past the last 16 in this year's CL they decided that serious action was needed

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Post #: 6009
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 5:50:59 PM   
Saltire


Posts: 1974
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

I guess that when Bayern realised they'd not progress past the last 16 in this year's CL they decided that serious action was needed


I see what you did there

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Post #: 6010
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 6:00:39 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23703
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clearly, Heyncke's planned retirement was to leave football forever in shame after a catastrophic humiliation by future European champions Arsenal FC. A humiliation so total that an entirely new approach must be forged to save Bayern.

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Post #: 6011
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 7:34:59 PM   
Olaf


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After Sunday's record-breaking defeat, there's yet another set of records to be smashed tonight - Arsenal have never gone out of the FA Cup third round under Arsene Wenger, and we've never lost an FA Cup match at the Grove. all this adds up to 'put everything you own on Swansea'

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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 8:11:18 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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I'll come back to this one for the penalties.

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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 8:18:44 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23703
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

I'll come back to this one for the penalties.


What about Michu coming on at the hour mark to score the winner?

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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 8:19:03 PM   
talpacino


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How you no score Thomas?

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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 8:34:54 PM   
directorscut


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Come on Swansea, don't be greedy. You've already got the League Cup.

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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 8:37:25 PM   
directorscut


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Theo, Theo, Theo...

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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 8:59:59 PM   
Olaf


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good lord, Theo and Giroud have been poor. though Theo has ascended to some kind of celestial awfulness plane where he becomes one with all of his horrendous misses in this game. now Michu will score and we'll moan about all the missed chances, etc

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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 9:22:51 PM   
talpacino


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Everybody! Be like Jack!

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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 9:23:36 PM   
directorscut


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Arsenal's name is on the cup. It is destiny.

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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 9:31:54 PM   
Olaf


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thank you based Wilshere

He's getting close to his pre-injury level again, absolutely brilliant today (Cazorla had a good game too). But blimey, our two forwards were woeful - lovely assist aside, Giroud seemed well off the pace and Theo was comically terrible. Maybe he'll get 10,000 off his weekly wages now after that performance.

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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 9:36:10 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

thank you based Wilshere

He's getting close to his pre-injury level again, absolutely brilliant today (Cazorla had a good game too). But blimey, our two forwards were woeful - lovely assist aside, Giroud seemed well off the pace and Theo was comically terrible. Maybe he'll get 10,000 off his weekly wages now after that performance.


I've been really quite unimpressed with most English players this season. Rooney (imo) has really been overshadowed by RvP, most defenders have looked wobbly, Milner scored a beauty the other day but I don't like him , Walcott is Walcott and Ox hasn't set the world on fire. So its very pleasing to see Wilshere purring like a Jaguar in midfield again.

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Post #: 6022
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 16/1/2013 11:19:17 PM   
Saltire


Posts: 1974
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From: Dundee
How much were the away tickets for tonights match?

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Post #: 6023
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 17/1/2013 10:09:13 AM   
Olaf


Posts: 23703
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W
An interesting perspective from Michael Laudrup on Jack Wilshere:

quote:

"We're talking about a young player who had an injury coming back but I think he has a lot of potential. You don't want to push your young players too much. Sometimes people are a little too fast, too quick with the big words. We have to let them grow, because young players can always improve, that goes for Jack Wilshere too. He has a lot of potential and can be a very, very good player... Don't put that pressure on him. To be world class you need more at the highest level. We are talking about a 21-year-old and we're already talking about him being the best. There's always pressure on players at this level. To be a world-class player you need a few seasons at the top level. Forty or 50 games is not enough. Maybe he can become it, but if we put a 21-year-old up there already, where do we put Lionel Messi?"


I'm guessing he knows what he's talking about, considering he signed for Juventus at about the same age Wilshere is now. I'd love it if he becomes Wenger's successor as Jack enters his peak years.

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RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 17/1/2013 10:15:31 AM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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Laudrup seems to have actually taken Swansea on a step this year. He had that tricky bump at the beginning of the season, not only were results not going their way, but there were a lot of noises coming out of the camp that the training had nose-dived since he took over. Seems like the latter could have been more related to the fact that he didn't fancy some of the squad.

But like he is saying about Wilshere, let's not judge him yet until he has another season under his belt. Because he will have challenges. Michu will go and he could lose another couple of players, so how he copes with that and who he brings in will be interesting. But right now, he's looking good.

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Post #: 6025
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 17/1/2013 3:17:28 PM   
horribleives

 

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I read a recent interview with Laudrup where he said he couldn't see himself managing for more than another few years. Added to the fact that he seems to have something of the nomad about him I wouldn't be surprised if he ups and leaves aftter next season. Which would be a shame as having people like him around just makes the Premiership a better place. Mind, if he were to make his last stop Arsenal or somewhere and go onto even greater success, perhaps he may put those plans to spend his middle-age years with his family on the backburner.

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Post #: 6026
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 17/1/2013 5:31:29 PM   
Olaf


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From: 41N 93W
Yeah, at the very most it'd be maybe two or three years, unless he changes his mind as you say. But the Arsenal position should be available either this year (if Wenger leaves due to us finishing outside of the top four, which he has hinted at) or next year (if Wenger leaves when his contract runs out, which I don't expect him to renew). It's unrealistic to expect another manager to stay as long as Arsene has, so three years in the job from 2014-2017 would make Laudrup only 53 when retiring. Either way, Dragan Stojkovic is surely one of the favourites for the job so my legendary-early-nineties-European-playmaker fantasy manager still has a good chance of coming to pass.

Also - one of the more reputable Arsenal sources posts on twitter yesterday that we put a 30m bid for an unnamed player... Wenger confirms his interest in Edinson Cavani today... IT'S HAPPENING

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Post #: 6027
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 17/1/2013 5:52:13 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8276
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Also - one of the more reputable Arsenal sources posts on twitter yesterday that we put a 30m bid for an unnamed player... Wenger confirms his interest in Edinson Cavani today... IT'S HAPPENING


Cavani would be an excellent signing (if it happens).

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Post #: 6028
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 17/1/2013 6:32:09 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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I may have just cum a little at that transfer gossip.

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Post #: 6029
RE: Arsenal 2012/13 - 17/1/2013 6:56:43 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23703
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Also - one of the more reputable Arsenal sources posts on twitter yesterday that we put a 30m bid for an unnamed player... Wenger confirms his interest in Edinson Cavani today... IT'S HAPPENING


Cavani would be an excellent signing (if it happens).


His buyout is apparently 45m and he's previously expressed a desire to join Real Madrid, so I don't expect it to happen. But if it's true about the bid being made at least, then it demonstrates an ambition to spend on top-level players - Cavani's one the top three strikers in Europe* imo (25 goals in 23 appearances this season reinforces that).


*abbreviated from 'top three strikers in Europe after Messi and Ronaldo', which pretty much a given these days.

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