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RE: Saw IV - 31/10/2007 9:50:13 AM

Mojo

Posts: 6044
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The CIC, next to the old man.

Mild Spoilers

I don't know why I agreed to go and see this, I was pretty much dragged. The first Saw film was a good film, it was interesting, inventive, scary and gory in a good way (in that it kinda aided the plot) but after that they really have just been rubbish. They seem to be rushed out each year with as many torture scenes as possible, kind of like "look what we've come up with now, how fucked up are we?" and some of them are really good, such as an early scene involving a sewn mouth and some sewn eye-lids, but others are just tedious and you know what the outcome is going to be.

The plot is a bit of a mess, sure we knew Jigsaw did what he did so people would appreciate their lives, but now thanks to some flashbacks he becomes the hero as we see the world around him filled with acts of violence and just generally horrible people. You can tell they're horrible because they have beards, bad earrings and grimy teeth. How's that for character development? Then there are the other characters, who are virtually all new to the series in this film and thus we don't really care about them. The writing for the first film was great, we really cared about Cary Elwes and Leigh Whannell but now we have stereotypical heroes (must save everybody... which admitedly does lead to quite a good ending), no bullshit detectives and smarmy lawyers. And why is the best actor of the bunch, Donnie Wahlberg, confined to being hung from a rope for the entire film, repeating lines like "You Fuck!" and "Who are you?". Seems like a total waste to me.

Then there's the twist, which I won't spoil, but in retrospect its actually pretty obvious, but then again I guess not since I didn't see it coming. In all, some of the torture scenes are okay whereas others are just boring and predictable. You might have fun seeing this just for some of the torture scenes and the music (I don't know why but I rather like the score for the Saw films) but there isn't much new here. Rent Hostel: Part II instead, or go and see 30 Days of Night which will undoubtedly rock the shit.

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Post #: 31

RE: Saw IV - 31/10/2007 11:56:29 AM

Sexual Harassment Panda

Posts: 12704
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mojo

They seem to be rushed out each year with as many torture scenes as possible, kind of like "look what we've come up with now, how fucked up are we?"

Disagree with that completely, if Saw IV was lacking anything, it was the fact it had very few torture scenes as possible, the one at the start, the hair one and the knife one were about it for cleverly thought out games/traps. There weren't really any others, which made Saw IV feel rushed, and more of a story telling exercise for Jigsaw, something which actually took away from the previous films and just wasn't required.

Saw was obviously the best of the series and 2 and 3 while different were still very entertaining in a popcorn flick type way, but they need to put an end to the series and stop milking it, maybe I'll change my mind with number V which I will still go and see despite my complaints.

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Post #: 32

Best in the series! - 31/10/2007 5:34:12 PM

02PARSIM

Posts: 73
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Ipswich

The Saw series in my eyes are entertaining, twist ridden movies that I enjoy thoroughly. But the ending of Saw 3 left me confused as to how they could make a sequel. Its no longer a spoiler to say that both Jigsaw and Amanda (the assistant) are dead. At first I feared the worst and was worrying in case it turned out Jigsaw "faked his death" or it was all a dream or something ludicrous. Thankfully they never do that, Jigsaw and Amanda remain dead, so who is the new Jigsaw? Well that would be telling wouldn't it. Saw 4 in my eyes is the very best of the Saw series to date, mainly because of its surprisingly not as gory as its predecessor. In fact this seemed the least violent to me since the first movie. This will irritate a few people, but its because of this lack of gore that the concentration seems more firmly on the storyline, and boy is it a storyline. The storyline is fast paced and intense and the final twist so brilliant that it rivals that of the original. Admiteddly I half guessed the big reveal, but there were a couple of smaller twists along the way I really did not guess. Overall Saw 4 is a superb movie that once again is being massacred by the critics for no other reason than its violent.

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Post #: 33

What a load of CRAP!!!!! - 1/11/2007 11:25:30 AM

JimBo!

Posts: 35
Joined: 23/2/2007
From: Brighton/Hove

This movie should win an award. For being absolute CRAP. Its not just becuase its the fourth film, its just a bad movie. When the credits had finished rolling i instantly felt sick. This film has opted for minimal story and maximum gore. Resuling in disgusting, lifeless deaths and yes ok some of them are inventive but i just didn't care. It might be well made, well directed but the acting PLAIN, the story NON-EXISTANT, and everything else just dragged alonG. very DULL i'm giving 2 stars becuase teh fact that it ended.

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Post #: 34

Good but enough now please! - 1/11/2007 1:22:22 PM

trueborndjross

Posts: 91
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Kirkcaldy

I wasn't expecting too much for this (although I enjoyed the previous 3) so I was pleasantly surprised to find this to be an enjoyable gore-fest. Well at least for the best part of the film. The 'twist' at the end is a bit contrived and left me feeling a bit empty with no real logic behind it. Lots of ingenious death traps as usual but a word of warning - don't have a big meal before you go and see this or else the person in front of you at the cinema might get an unwelcome shock within the first very gory (but curiously interesting and realistic) 10 minutes!

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Post #: 35

Good but enough now please! - 1/11/2007 1:22:25 PM

trueborndjross

Posts: 91
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Kirkcaldy

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Post #: 36

RE: Saw IV - 2/11/2007 1:01:41 AM

Mack3

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Outpost 31

I absolutely loved the original movie but thought II was poor and well III sucked ba... well lets just say it was poor. However I think this most recent addition to the series was better than what I had hoped for. A lot less gore than III and some excellent flashback sequences. Undoubtedly part V will be ready for next year but thats a whole other topic. Overall 3/5

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Post #: 37

RE: What a load of CRAP!!!!! - 3/11/2007 12:17:53 AM

Sexual Harassment Panda

Posts: 12704
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimBo!

This movie should win an award. For being absolute CRAP. Its not just becuase its the fourth film, its just a bad movie. When the credits had finished rolling i instantly felt sick. This film has opted for minimal story and maximum gore. Resuling in disgusting, lifeless deaths and yes ok some of them are inventive but i just didn't care. It might be well made, well directed but the acting PLAIN, the story NON-EXISTANT, and everything else just dragged alonG. very DULL i'm giving 2 stars becuase teh fact that it ended.

You clearly haven't actually watched it.

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Post #: 38

RE: What a load of CRAP!!!!! - 3/11/2007 3:15:25 PM

danjwilson

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/5/2007

I've seen Saw 4 however felt very confused after it!!

Can someone PM me and tell me what the F*uk happened in that 90mins or so.

Cheers

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Post #: 39

absolute f*cking crap - 3/11/2007 8:42:37 PM

loafroaster

Posts: 117
Joined: 10/5/2006

The makers should be ashamed of themselves. I seen this and '30 days of night' in the same week, and while the latter wasn't perfect, at least it was a good honest whack at trying to entertain the audience with some good old fashioned SCARES. Saw IV was overly complicated, horribly self-indulgant and **SPOILERS** when ANOTHER accomplice was revealed at the end, I felt like headbutting the screen whilst screaming WHY OH WHY DID I PAY TO SEE THIS?!?! It was almost as if the directors added this to make up for the fact that in the first 3, the image of an elderly cancer patient and a young woman lugging heavy machinery about was deemed too far-fetched. I can almost see 'Saw 15' in the near future, with the number of accomplices now in double figures to keep the films rolling out. And apart from every horrible other aspect of the film, the image of Tobin Bell's decrepid weirdo impregnating a woman half is age is enough to deem Saw IV unwatchable.

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Post #: 40

- 5/11/2007 1:16:00 AM

Ben Myers

Posts: 44
Joined: 4/12/2005

I will never understand why filmmakers feel te need to "humanise" the serial killers in their movies. *SPOILER* turns out the reason he kills people is because.... his baby died! I mean I just wanted to hug the guy, but we're supposed to be afraid of him! Please note, Hollywood: giving them a backstory makes them NOT SCARY!

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Post #: 41

RE: - 5/11/2007 1:38:59 PM

LovelyLucy7

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/11/2007

I thought this was better than the third one,yet still found the gore too mch than was actually needed!thats what made the first one soo good as it wasnt about the gore,it was about the actual game they were playing.though i know you dont really know anythign about jigsaw himself until the very end.
It was about tryin to work out what was going on and who jigsaw was.Shame the guys that wrote the first and third film, didnt do this one as i think they would have been much better!

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Post #: 42

A Saw movie too far - 6/11/2007 10:34:17 AM

byrnie

Posts: 1
Joined: 6/6/2006

The 3 previous movies were great. Good plots for this genre but Saw IV just didnt work. They should of left it a 3 great horror thriller movies.

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Post #: 43

RE: A Saw movie too far - 6/11/2007 11:15:37 PM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19969
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

Saw IV

I should point out that I've been given a Cineworld Unlimited Pass as an early Christmas present, which is the only reason I decided to see this at the cinema, rather than wait for it to appear on TV or DVD, which is where I saw the other three.

The first Saw delivered a terse little thriller with shocks, gore, and a pair of interesting characters. Saw II gave us shocks, gore, and lots of uninteresting characters. Saw III gave us a neat riff, giving a bit of backstory to Jigsaw and his apprentice (who I still can't think of as anyone other than her off Becker). Saw IV begins, then, with an unnecessarily graphic scene of Jigsaw's autopsy. I say unnecessarily as it neither entertains, nor is scary. It is purely horrific, and serves no real purpose, other than to introduce Jigsaw's post-mortem message - a wax-covered tape.

The film then switches to a new detective obsessed with the Jigsaw murders, who is forced to perform a series of tasks by a mysterious Jigsaw apprentice, else Donnie Wahlberg from Saw II would die. The scenes of this detective's journey, where he is slowly groomed for apprenticeship (there are always two, a master, and an apprentice...) are alternated with scenes of two FBI agents interviewing Jigsaw's ex-wife, who they suspect is behind these incidents. Interspersing these two strands are flashbacks that flesh out (no pun intended) Jigsaw's story, almost portraying him sympathetically - until you remember he's a suicide-facilitating sadist with a misguided sense of justice. These various strands pull together, like the strands of hair of one poor girl's head, until the (un)predictable finale.

Spoilers: ---> I admit that I had to consult imdb's full synopsis to clarify the end. it didn't help that three of the male leads all looked, to varying degrees, like Sylvester bloody Stallone. The detective who finds the tape at the beginning; the lawyer, and the FBI agent, all look very similar, which added confusion. The revelation that the events in this film run concurrently to those of Saw III is a nice trick, that would have had greater impact had it been more effectively implemented. The opening scene replayed at the end means that Saw V is fairly inevitable... <--- spoilers end.

Overall, the stylish look of the film can't escape poor editing, dodgy acting, a tortuous plot structure that Raymond Chandler would have struggled to follow, and a sense that while there was arguably less gore than preceding films, what gore there was seemed overly gratuitous - especially the pointlessness of the opening (again no pun intended) graphic autopsy scene.

Acting - 2/10 - pretty atrocious - I cared for none of the actors, bar ironically, Jigsaw in the flashback scenes. He gets both points.
Story - 2/10 - there are worse horror films out there, sadly. However, the entire debacle is derivative, and only gets two points for actually having a plot structure that, while nonsensical, is at least more substantial than some.
The Look - 4/10 - Say what you like, these films do look nice. As I've mentioned, they also look unnecessarily gory. Don't get me wrong, I can see where gore in horror is valid. 30 Days of Night, for it's faults, got this right if nothing else.
The Sound - 3/10 - Emotion-forcing music and effects, not emotion-inspiring. Then again, I wasn't expecting a lot.
Success of Intent - 4/10 - it's meant to disgust and shock, but it's also meant to entertain to some degree. It does the former in spades, but regrettably the latter was lacking. It wasn't a complete waste of time, but I'm glad I have an unlimited card and didn't, as such, pay to see it.
Overall, 15/50, or:

30%

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RE: Saw IV - 8/11/2007 10:12:26 PM

haylzbella

Posts: 35
Joined: 29/10/2007
From: Newcastle Upon Tyne

i saw this only last night and b4 it started i said to my boyfriend i hope this isnt hard to watch meaning the gore.................first bloomin 5 mins is the worst of the gore ive seen out of all 4 films!! very good cant decide which is best now 2 or 4. reckon therl be a 5?

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Post #: 45

Okay - 9/11/2007 7:21:49 PM

Naweed_1

Posts: 1433
Joined: 7/1/2006
From: Birmingham

I wasn't expecting much but, I was pleasantly suprised with this third sequel in the Saw franchise, it was incoherant at times but the Jigsaw backstory was handled well and Tobin Bell did deilver a good performance.

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Post #: 46

- 11/11/2007 1:16:05 AM

tombetom

Posts: 13
Joined: 2/11/2007

The worst "Saw" movie so far..

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Post #: 47

Saw IV - Was anoyone else confused?? - 12/11/2007 1:32:46 PM

Coolucy

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/4/2006
From: London

Saw this last night, and although it was a step up from the lacking imagination of Saw II, the ending managed to thoroughly confuse me! Starting to think that I'm actually trying to read too much into it, and the twist is just as obvious as it appears - didn't the first Saw seem to have more depth than this? In fact, starting to think that this is just a combination of III and IV?

Overall though, good violence (everyone likes to see innovative ways to knock off cast members), nice to see Jigsaw hasn't totally disappeared and interesting (ish) back story - although agree with earlier posts that humanising killers doesn't lend anything to the fear factor.

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Post #: 48

Saw IV - Was anyone else confused?? - 12/11/2007 1:33:06 PM

Coolucy

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/4/2006
From: London

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Post #: 49

Saw IV - Was anyone else confused?? - 12/11/2007 1:33:07 PM

Coolucy

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/4/2006
From: London

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Post #: 50

RE: Saw IV - Was anyone else confused?? - 13/11/2007 11:01:37 AM

benmharper

Posts: 2146
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Carlisle

Saw it yesterday and t'was alright. Spent the autopsy scene watching my shoes as it was too much for me. The traps were quite good but the end made me wish i'd watched the first 3 recently as i got a little lost. Prob the worst of the saw films so far. And u dare say there will be another next halloween

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RE: Saw IV - Was anyone else confused?? - 13/11/2007 4:28:17 PM

DanCurley

Posts: 1371
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: London

I thought it was alright, did the job. Not sure what you expect to get from a Saw film other than a few hanging death scenes. Pointless trying to follow the ludicrous twists, just sit back and hope to God you die in quicker ways than on display.

The Hair bit had me "aarrgghhhingg!" in the cinema... I kinda think if you take these films with a pinch of salt you'll get more out of 'em...

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Post #: 52

Why are they still doing these films???!!! - 14/11/2007 9:32:46 AM

Empo

Posts: 139
Joined: 24/4/2006
From: The middle of the earth!

I may have been under the influence of alcohol when I watched this film but its still bad even if your drunk! The plots now are getting stupid and silly and the whole saw franchise is just repeating itself over and over again with every movie; Jigsaw kidnaps people, wants them to learn a lesson by doing "Tasks", we get the moral of the story just stop it already!!! Jigsaws dead for Pete's sake yet they still manage to make a film around him! If what people are saying is true (that there is SIX SAWS all together) then God help us all!

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Post #: 53

RE: Saw IV (spoiler) - 16/11/2007 7:33:47 PM

finalfist

Posts: 18
Joined: 21/6/2007

as long as youre paying attention whilst watchin it, the twist isnt as clever as its made out to be. its just deja vu...

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Post #: 54

gary say !!!! - 28/2/2008 9:12:38 PM

BLOCKBUSTERCORBY

Posts: 2
Joined: 29/1/2008

wot a joke this has got to be the worst out of the lot how can a dead gye still going about killing people by leaving a tape in his belly got to be the worst out of the lot but yet people still watch this . dont waste your mony on this crap id rather sit and pluck ma dads nose hair than go thru this agen wonder is ther will b a 5th only time will tell !

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Post #: 55

We've saw it all before (see what I did there? I should... - 4/11/2008 12:34:48 PM

SkullKassidy

Posts: 121
Joined: 7/7/2008

This film manages an amazing feat ...it's mind-bogglingly complicated and totally predictable AT THE SAME TIME!

And the fact Tobin Bell and Donnie Wahlberg keep showing up despite seeming to die in the previous film is getting irriating!

...and was I only one who thought that the only thing they could do that would actually surprise me was actually have someone pass one of Jigsaw's tests and survive?

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Post #: 56

- 23/12/2008 11:08:56 AM

gepete80

Posts: 19
Joined: 31/8/2006
From: Tooting, SW London

Sometimes there are some questions that are simply unanswerable. How do bank CEOs justify huge bonuses when there companies are failing? How did the Cheeky Girls ever become successful? Why did Spurs buy a goalkeeper whos more error prone then their previous one? And why oh why do people keep spending their hard earned money to go watch Saw every Halloween? With the fifth instalment in cinemas, I had a mad moment and decided to watch the fourth in the series that has become the biggest grossing horror franchise ever (again, how?). Not that I remembered a hell of a lot about the third, but I got to grips with it in about 5 mins.

It starts with Jigsaw seemingly dead but during a routine autopsy, a new tape is discovered and soon enough the deadly games begin again, with Rigg (Lyriq Bent) being the centre piece being tested by the supposedly deceased Jigsaw. The original Saw was a nicely written chiller, which sat extremely well for the time, with some clever twists, nasty kills and decent acting. However, after many sequels you start to run out of inventive ideas and either make big over the top sequences or even worse, begin to rehash the stuff you have already done. Saw IV suffers from both, in that the twists are instantly recognisable as stuff they’ve done before, and the gruesome death stuff (which these films now seem to depend on) are simply just too cartoony. You could believe it to start with, but with the advent of Hostel and other torture porn creations these have just become a fight between film-makers to see who can go the furthest. And Saw IV can’t even do that.

What really negates Saw IV is the humanisation factor. Film-makers seem to be unable to leave things well alone and have to explain absolutely everything. A primary focus of IV is telling the story of how Jigsaw came into being. Believe it or not Jigsaw was just an ordinary married man who through one reason or another turned in to a murderous psychopath. But my point here is that Jigsaw was a much scarier prospect at the start because you had no idea WHY he was doing this. It’s the same flaw that affected Hannibal Lector and to some extent Darth Vader. By trying to explain their back stories it takes the shine off what made them so iconic in the first place.

The film does go at a decent pace, but is full of plot holes which I assume will be explained in the fifth, and is badly let down by a twist so easy to spot it could have been one of M.Night Shymalans rejections. The jumps are no longer there and where before you felt some tension, now you just point and laugh. I suppose I was spoiled recently by watching the excellent .Rec which showed that real chilling horror comes from less exposure and more basic down to earth story telling. If you’ve seen the other 3 Saw’s by all means give it a watch (and I am sure you will) but if you want a true chill get .Rec this Halloween.

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Post #: 57

Saw IV: ZzZzZz. - 10/7/2010 4:33:26 PM

LUCASLITTLEWOOD

Posts: 83
Joined: 12/3/2010
From: London

This is just getting ridiculous now, a fourth film which being honest was tragic with a story ready for a fifth, these films are just getting more and more diabolical, more traps and pointless gore for a more complex and barbaric storyline, it just seems to be getting out of hand now! I can't believe I stayed awake throughout the whole film. I think that the writers need to go back to basics and look at what made it work in the first place.

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Post #: 58

A Mess - 9/3/2011 10:32:49 AM

blaud

Posts: 722
Joined: 13/12/2007

By this point, the Saw series had created a comfortable niche for itself in the torture porn variety, with a horde of loyal fans, and Lionsgate/ Twised Pictures backing the franchise. However, that's where the prosperity ends in the Saw series. At least, from a filmic sandpoint. The plot feels rushed and terribly understated, coming second to the always-ingenious death traps. New cop Costas Mandaylor is believable, but nothing special. Hell, even the entertainingly grim situations victims find themselves' in seem to be losing their appeal. this would've been a good jump off point for the series. But no. Strap in for V

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Post #: 59

OK - 10/4/2011 10:30:20 AM

the film man

Posts: 598
Joined: 13/10/2010

To be fair when I saw the trailer for this film the first thing I said was, what the hell. Anyway I don't know what to say about this film, I enjoyed it but I thought they could have done more and it definetly wasn't what I was expecting and I also thought the film would be set after Saw III not during. Anyway the ending was a big twist to and the series will definutly carry on. Lets hope they don't screw up Saw V.

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Post #: 60