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RATA LET DOWN - 17/10/2007 8:19:07 PM   
ELLABELLA


Posts: 7
Joined: 1/9/2006
IM SORRY BUT RATATOUILLE JUST DOESN'T DERSERVE 5 STARS ! ALTHOUGH THE ANIMATION AND ATTENTION TO DETAIL WAS EXCELLENT WERE WAS THE CHARACTERS ? THERE WASN'T ANY ! YOU WEREN'T ROUTING FOR THE LITTLE RAT LIKE YOU WOULD ROUTE FOR MIKE WOLSALSKI AND SULLY FOR EXAMPLE. A LITTLE BIT DISAPPOINTING

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Post #: 61
One of the Best of the Year - 18/10/2007 9:11:04 AM   
Mikepark

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 11/4/2006
This totally surprised me. I knew it would be "good", but this was amazing. Great characters, lots of emotion and hardly any schmaltz. Whilst I wasn't particularly enamoured with the visual representation of flavours, the moment Anton Ego tastes his meal was one of those perfect cinematic moments. A villain is felled, in the best possible way ever. This will sit side by side with The Incredibles.

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Post #: 62
RE: One of the Best of the Year - 18/10/2007 11:55:15 AM   
Hamish


Posts: 178
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Lincs
    Ultimately slightly dissapointing, visually it was nothing short of astounding (how they improve the animation film on film is beyond me) but at the end of the day Ratatouille feels like a little too much style over substance. Yesit wasn't all that funny but most importantly it felt like a short film. Not five minutes but an hour to hour and a half would surely have sufficed. The characters aren't strong enough and the script isn't tight enough to hold your interest over two hours.

   There are many, many sequences that are as always a sheer delight, particularly the endlessly inventive slapstick chases.The ending was also very well handled but the overall pacing seemed too uneven and the fact I spent a lot of time marvelling at the sublime animation says something about the strength of the narrative itself. Im more than willing to give it another go but for now its nothing more than four stars from a five star studio.

(in reply to Mikepark)
Post #: 63
- 18/10/2007 4:29:44 PM   
cluesy

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 11/10/2005
Stunning visuals and an inventive story. The film is consistenty funny and heartwarming. The only reason I knock the score down is because its predictable and follows the same story arc as all Pixar films do. Still a great watch and a fantastic return to form after Cars.

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Post #: 64
RE: - 18/10/2007 5:42:17 PM   
Sway


Posts: 9085
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Albuquerque
Definitely another Pixar film on top form.  I have to reiterate everybody's amazement at the graphics in this - it's unbelieveable how they manage to continuously improve upon each picture when you think you're watching something that can't possibly be improved in anyway.  My mate let out a whispered 'fucking hell!' when it cuts to the scene of the little house in the country - it was just so real.  I, myself, was pretty bowled over by the panoramic of Paris, much in the same way I was bowled over by the aeriel shot of ancient Rome in Gladiator.  Can't believe animation has gotten this good.

Anyway, the film itself was different to Pixar's other films in that I felt it was more about developing the story than playing it for the laughs.  There were definitely lots of laugh out loud moments or little fun moments which inspired a chuckle, but it was much less of a comedy, than the likes of Monster's Inc (which is incidentally still my favourite Pixar) and more of a drama if you will.  I think this might be where it falters for some people - I still enjoyed it a lot, but my mate I saw it with thought it sagged in the middle, and I can see where he's coming from.  The story itself is a little quirky I guess, and you do shift from questioning yourself over watching a movie about a rat wanting to cook, to just getting caught up in the drama as it unfolds.

I personally thought this was highly enjoyable, and Pixar really upped the ante with the graphics on this. I have to admit though, while I knew as I watched Finding Nemo and Monster's Inc, for example, that I'd have to buy them on dvd as soon as they came out, I'm not too sure if I will get Ratatouille.  It's definitely worth the watch however.

And the short film that was on before the main feature was absolutely priceless. I may infact buy Ratatouille if only for that!

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Post #: 65
RE: Ratatouille - 18/10/2007 6:09:57 PM   
Helen OHara

 

Posts: 3527
Joined: 15/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: eoin81

vonOfterdingen got it right. it was tiresome. A chef with a rat inside his tee shirt? hilarious? Come on. this is from the people who did that amazing road crossing sequence in Toy Story 2, the amazing monster attack in the depths of the ocean in Finding Nemo. Ratatouille did not give me 'joy' as the empire review said it would, rather it gave me the feeling that i should have just put on nemo or the incredibles at home. there was nothing new, a load of talk about food (yawn) and then the problem of more than one baddie (didn't empire criticize spiderman 3 for this problem?)

I get the sneaking suspicion that empire gives films like this good reviews so as to secure 'exclusives' when the team behind the film begins work on another. For example the sinkeningly gushing review of Knocked UP. Note how these great reviews are coupled with a 'geez, these guys are all amazing' report from the film set. For God sake empire, will you try to find your dignity again.


Eoin, that is emphatically not the case. We - in fact, I - talked to Bird and the rest of the gang at Pixar months before we saw the film, so there was no question of securing exclusives this time around - and as for next time, if they invite us back it will be because we're the world's biggest and best film magazine, not because we gave them a review they didn't deserve. This film has 97% positive reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, 96% on Metacritic - we're not quote-whoring for some sub-par film here. I and we are not going to apologise for liking good films.

_____________________________

"I never understood drinking. It isn't good for your looks, and it cuts down on what you are. I never wanted to cut down on what I am." - Mae West

"Movies are forever, and sex doesn't last" - Mae West.

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Post #: 66
RE: Ratatouille - 18/10/2007 7:08:08 PM   
amateur ghostbuster

 

Posts: 862
Joined: 8/12/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helen OHara

because we're the world's biggest and best film magazine



You clearly haven't read Sight & Sound. Or your own magazine for that matter...Biggest not best.

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Post #: 67
As expected - 18/10/2007 7:12:14 PM   
Jonny Keogh

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 4/10/2005
I dont hate any Pixar - Disney movies. They're all brilliant, but i am still waiting for Pixar to produce a movie as funny and as visually beautiful as Finding Nemo. Ratatouille hits all the right notes with the animation, but doesn't deliver enough laughs. But the film is excellent. Such an easy movie to watch, and I would watch it again. But I enjoyed Cars more as the animation was fantastic also. Ratatouille didnt disappoint, but it didnt exceed my expectations. But still gets a worthy 4 stars as Pixar cant do any wrong

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Post #: 68
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 4:56:02 AM   
benskelly


Posts: 221
Joined: 28/8/2007
From: To Your Immediate Left
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helen OHara

quote:

ORIGINAL: eoin81

vonOfterdingen got it right. it was tiresome. A chef with a rat inside his tee shirt? hilarious? Come on. this is from the people who did that amazing road crossing sequence in Toy Story 2, the amazing monster attack in the depths of the ocean in Finding Nemo. Ratatouille did not give me 'joy' as the empire review said it would, rather it gave me the feeling that i should have just put on nemo or the incredibles at home. there was nothing new, a load of talk about food (yawn) and then the problem of more than one baddie (didn't empire criticize spiderman 3 for this problem?)

I get the sneaking suspicion that empire gives films like this good reviews so as to secure 'exclusives' when the team behind the film begins work on another. For example the sinkeningly gushing review of Knocked UP. Note how these great reviews are coupled with a 'geez, these guys are all amazing' report from the film set. For God sake empire, will you try to find your dignity again.


Eoin, that is emphatically not the case. We - in fact, I - talked to Bird and the rest of the gang at Pixar months before we saw the film, so there was no question of securing exclusives this time around - and as for next time, if they invite us back it will be because we're the world's biggest and best film magazine, not because we gave them a review they didn't deserve. This film has 97% positive reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, 96% on Metacritic - we're not quote-whoring for some sub-par film here. I and we are not going to apologise for liking good films.


Helen - you and I may have had a little squabble earlier, but you are absolutely right on the money here and good for you for standing up to what I think is an idiotic comment from someone who clearly doesn't understand how the business works.  And PS, as far I'm concerned, Empire IS the biggest and best film magazine in the world.  Better than anything in the States that's for sure.  It has a genuine love for movies that comes through on every page and it never becomes either a gossip rag or a pretentious font of film snobbery.    

I love this film and never really warmed to the more kiddie charms of Finding Nemo or Monsters Inc which others on here are holding up as the high standard.  And I liked Cars much more than they did!  So, I guess...  We all have different tastes?  Seems fair.    

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Post #: 69
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 10:24:36 AM   
simonmckergan1


Posts: 1265
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Belfast
This film was wonderful.  So worth 5 stars! 

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Post #: 70
RE: RE: - 19/10/2007 11:19:18 AM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 7969
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

Other than being a bit flat in the middle the film was another top notch outing from Pixar. The third act was brilliant and had me and the rest of the cinema in stitches. Add to this a great little short film before the feature and it was a brilliant cinema outing. The only real downside being the annoying kids next to me who didn't stay quiet.

It is certainly not there best film, but considering their previous films are so good that is not a bad thing.


I'm with James.   I really enjoyed it but the middle felt a little bit flat.  Compared to the rest of the distinctly average animation out there it deserves 5 stars but to quote from one of James2183 favourite films

"If you're gonna compare a Pixar film, you compare it to every other animated film ever made... that wasn't made by Pixar."

and using that as my benchmark it cannot claim perfection.

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Post #: 71
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 2:44:07 PM   
eoin81

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 28/2/2007
[quote]ORIGINAL: benskelly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helen OHara

 

Helen O'Hara: we're the world's biggest and best film magazine, This film has 97% positive reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, 96% on Metacritic - we're not quote-whoring for some sub-par film here. I and we are not going to apologise for liking good films.


benskelly: standing up to what I think is an idiotic comment from someone who clearly doesn't understand how the business works.  And PS, as far I'm concerned, Empire IS the biggest and best film magazine in the world.  Better than anything in the States that's for sure.  It has a genuine love for movies that comes through on every page and it never becomes either a gossip rag or a pretentious font of film snobbery.    

We all have different tastes?  Seems fair.    

ORIGINAL: benskelly


Re Helen: biggest and best film magazine that needs to legitimise its opinions with comparisons to other film websites?
Empire is a fine magazine but I stand by my comment that your tendancy to gush in reviews and 'on set reports' is at odds with the excellent and thoughtful writing that is done towards the back of the magazine.

benskelly - an opinion on empire's attitude to film reviews written on a forum which your beloved Empire so activily encourages its readers to contribute to cannot be deemed idiotic. Helen O'Hara replied with Empire's reasons and she didn't resort to undermining another persons opinions by simply dismissing it. But then again " We all have different tastes?" right?

< Message edited by eoin81 -- 19/10/2007 3:43:08 PM >

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Post #: 72
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 3:36:50 PM   
Helen OHara

 

Posts: 3527
Joined: 15/9/2005
OK, Eoin, I'm not entirely sure what you were saying in that last post, which seemed a little confused, but let's cover all the bases. I know very well how this business works, thanks, and I and Empire have never hesitated to criticise big films when criticism is warranted - see, say, The Da Vinci Code, Van Helsing, Fantastic Four, Godzilla, Shrek the Third etc etc. It hasn't stopped Tom Hanks, Hugh Jackman, Roland Emmerich or Dreamworks talking to us. That's not how the business works, and frankly it seems to me that you're the one who doesn't get it. We're all professionals here, as are the filmmakers, and we don't whore out reviews for any one, or any reason, because that would lose us the respect of readers, filmmakers and, not least, ourselves.

I am not "legitimising our opinions with reference to other websites"; I am merely pointing out that we're hardly out on a limb with this opinion, and that Pixar aren't exactly short of a glowing review or two hundred if that's all they're after. Incidentally, from what I saw on set they don't particularly give a damn about critical or public opinion. They want to make films that they themselves are proud of, and that as much as any of their success or artistry is something to admire them for.

As for the claim that we "gush", Empire is and has always been and (I hope) will always be a magazine for film lovers. We don't generally criticise a film sight-unseen, and we usually haven't seen the film when bringing you set reports. To judge a film at that stage would be unprofessional and entirely unfair. As for our reviews, they represent our opinion on seeing the film and nothing more. They are not publicity tools and if you think that they "gush", perhaps you're reading the wrong magazine. 

< Message edited by Helen OHara -- 19/10/2007 3:37:52 PM >


_____________________________

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"Movies are forever, and sex doesn't last" - Mae West.

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Post #: 73
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 3:53:30 PM   
ilovebeerme


Posts: 4531
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Magic Beans


quote:

ORIGINAL: eoin81

a load of talk about food (yawn)


It's a film about cooking. It's set largely in a restaurant. The characters are chefs. It employed Thomas Keller as a consultant. And you bitch because it talks about food? Idiot.


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Post #: 74
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 4:26:04 PM   
eoin81

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 28/2/2007
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helen OHara

I know very well how this business works, thanks...

That's not how the business works, and frankly it seems to me that you're the one who doesn't get it.


Helen,
I'm well aware that there is a protocol involved in the 'business' just like there is in any profession.
My main point about Empire's reviews is that when compared with the cool, calm and thoughtful reflection that goes into the features (eg the piece about Heat in the last issue) they are sometimes not as strong. Naturally, there is the objectivity of time with in such features especially with films such as the afformentioned Heat but I just feel (although you have explained, quite clearly, the opposite) that Empire should retain some more objectivity when viewing a film. If as you say Pixar do not give a damn about public opinion then maybe a more objective review should have been written or at least have superfluous comments such as the comparison of Remy the Rat to Pixar excised.


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Post #: 75
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 4:27:19 PM   
eoin81

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 28/2/2007
quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovebeerme



quote:

ORIGINAL: eoin81

a load of talk about food (yawn)


It's a film about cooking. It's set largely in a restaurant. The characters are chefs. It employed Thomas Keller as a consultant. And you bitch because it talks about food? Idiot.



point taken - but is it necessary to throw insults around?

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Post #: 76
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 4:33:22 PM   
ilovebeerme


Posts: 4531
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Magic Beans

You don't think what you've been saying about Empire and their integrity is insulting? Well it reads as pretty insulting.

Apologies for calling you an idiot though. Going to see a film about cooking when you have no interest in cooking isn't idiotic. It is stupid though. You may as well mark down Toy Story for having toys in it or Cars for being about cars.


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Post #: 77
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 4:37:15 PM   
eoin81

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 28/2/2007
No, i'm discussing the magazine which is a fair thing to do on its website. I'm not posting it elsewhere.
You're right about the cooking aspect of the film - and okay i'll admit it...the soup looked great!

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Post #: 78
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 4:49:31 PM   
Helen OHara

 

Posts: 3527
Joined: 15/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: eoin81
Helen,
I'm well aware that there is a protocol involved in the 'business' just like there is in any profession.
My main point about Empire's reviews is that when compared with the cool, calm and thoughtful reflection that goes into the features (eg the piece about Heat in the last issue) they are sometimes not as strong. Naturally, there is the objectivity of time with in such features especially with films such as the afformentioned Heat but I just feel (although you have explained, quite clearly, the opposite) that Empire should retain some more objectivity when viewing a film. If as you say Pixar do not give a damn about public opinion then maybe a more objective review should have been written or at least have superfluous comments such as the comparison of Remy the Rat to Pixar excised.


You really do seem confused here Eoin - the comparison of Remy to Pixar itself is exactly the sort of considered opinion that you value so much in our retrospectives; it's just one that you obviously don't agree with. And I'm not saying that our reviews are not objective - but if you expect them to be cynical or mean-spirited, which it seems in this case you do, you're reading the wrong magazine.

_____________________________

"I never understood drinking. It isn't good for your looks, and it cuts down on what you are. I never wanted to cut down on what I am." - Mae West

"Movies are forever, and sex doesn't last" - Mae West.

(in reply to eoin81)
Post #: 79
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 8:57:07 PM   
AndyT


Posts: 1159
Joined: 22/10/2005
From: Herts

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenClay2005

Once again - Empire with its snout up the pixar rectum snorting for truffles!

Ratatouille is crap! Seriously - I took my kid and her buddies to see it today - they got bored. Now she loved the considerably better Flushed Away - who wouldn't - it had more rounded interesting characterisation, great jokes, a nippy pace (essential for a KIDS FILM!) and beat this pile of glossy rubbish hands down.

Cars was bad - this was awful. We all got bored - kids and adults alike. The cinema was full, hardly laughed and left underwhelmed.

Sorry Brad Bird - your best work remains The Iron Giant


What cinema do you go to!?

(in reply to BenClay2005)
Post #: 80
RE: Ratatouille - 19/10/2007 8:58:41 PM   
Taizy

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 1/1/2006
I saw this film by accident (Atonement was sold out!) but I came out with such a huge smile on my moosh that I wasn't even sad I'd missed James McAvoy in skivvies... The work on those rats was meticulous, each whisker in place and I loved the opening plotting/narrative. I've got to confess I'm not a huge fan of The Incredibles but I really loved this. Can see why others didn't so I'm firmly sitting on the diplomatic fence and it was looooong but any film with rats skating down a grater on cheese-boards has got my vote! 

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Post #: 81
RE: Ratatouille - 20/10/2007 11:14:52 AM   
BobM70


Posts: 958
Joined: 29/12/2005
This deserves 5 stars. It's the most perfect animation yet, I've ever seen. But what makes this really brilliant is the warmth it brings across. On the surface it seems to have the same storyline as almost all other Pixar/Disney films: strange, lovable, "fish out of water" character persues his dream and reaches his goal, despite many difficulties. Remy is that character here. Okay, but there's more: it deals with the reality of dreams. Dreams of making something of a life despite what everyone else thinks. Linguini on the other hand does not dream, he is content with the way things are. But a little rat makes him see that there can be more if you look closer. But sometimes dreams can or must be shared to make them reallity. It may sound smaltzy but in a time where everyone is concerned with themselves and the concept of "fear of other people" (read: cultures, religion) is being used in the media to create a state of war, this little, brilliant film is a huge relieve.
But that aside it's lovingly made, gives you a great feeling and people who say this is boring should have their pulse checked.
Classic feel good stuff.

Bob

< Message edited by BobM70 -- 20/10/2007 11:17:58 AM >


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Post #: 82
- 20/10/2007 1:34:36 PM   
SamanthaC

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 8/10/2005
From: Stirling
I normally love seeing animated films like this, and so was really excited to see this, but I have to say i got a little bored. In fact half way through I was more interested in watching the people in the screening then the actual film. Flushed away was a much better film and I expected more of Disney and Pixar - in fact the little short film called Lifted they put at the beginning was a sight more interesting than that of the feature presentation. I dont know who is reviewing these films at Empire lately but this film 5 stars and Stardust only 3? Something is out of kilter - and I dont think it is my reviews - at least I hope not!!!

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Post #: 83
- 20/10/2007 8:26:37 PM   
heyabob15

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 20/10/2007
The way this film is put together is amazing.One of the best films ive seen.When i tell people about this film they say what’s cool about a rat in a kitchen? Isn’t it, like, kinda gross? which i thought at first before i saw it but i believe everyone should watch it before they judge it . it defo desevres 5 stars

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Post #: 84
RE: - 21/10/2007 12:15:36 PM   
ilovebeerme


Posts: 4531
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Magic Beans
Most perfect film I've seen in the cinema in years  [image]http://www.viceboxx.com/boards/Smileys/classic/thumb.gif[/image] .  Made me grin from start to finish and roar with laughter in more places than any film I can recall for some time.  The animation in the sewer, when Remy gets separated at first, was astonishing.  Having had pet rats for years it was fantastic to see they spent so much time getting the movement and behaviour just spot on......walking, cooking and talking aside [image]http://www.viceboxx.com/boards/Smileys/classic/biggrin.gif[/image] .  The research they must of done on Paris is incredible.  The walk way by the Seine, next to Notre Dame, where Linguine first takes Remy is exactly as shown.  The bridges and steps change just up and down river of that point, but the got it spot on.  Amazing.  Add in the fantastic food (good job Thomas Keller), a '61 Latour and '47 Mule Blanche and it's most definitely my kind of film.  The scene where Ego, the food critic, tastes his dish and the memories come flooding back was just superb.  That's what food is about, right there.  The way they visualised how Remy appreciates flavour was also a stroke of genius. 

Can't recommend it highly enough.

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Post #: 85
RE: Ratatouille - 21/10/2007 12:56:56 PM   
eoin81

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 28/2/2007
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helen OHara

quote:

ORIGINAL: eoin81
Helen,
I'm well aware that there is a protocol involved in the 'business' just like there is in any profession.
My main point about Empire's reviews is that when compared with the cool, calm and thoughtful reflection that goes into the features (eg the piece about Heat in the last issue) they are sometimes not as strong. Naturally, there is the objectivity of time with in such features especially with films such as the afformentioned Heat but I just feel (although you have explained, quite clearly, the opposite) that Empire should retain some more objectivity when viewing a film. If as you say Pixar do not give a damn about public opinion then maybe a more objective review should have been written or at least have superfluous comments such as the comparison of Remy the Rat to Pixar excised.


You really do seem confused here Eoin - the comparison of Remy to Pixar itself is exactly the sort of considered opinion that you value so much in our retrospectives; it's just one that you obviously don't agree with. And I'm not saying that our reviews are not objective - but if you expect them to be cynical or mean-spirited, which it seems in this case you do, you're reading the wrong magazine.


Hi Helen,
Well I suppose I am confused because the first paragraph of the report reads like the review. Plus, sentences like 'his films feel like gifts' (to me) seems more like a reaction that a calm deliberation (although I may be wrong - the review is well written).
Anyway, I have really enjoyed this discussion - it is one of the reasons I joined empireonline. However, I won't stop reading the magazine despite your constant calls for me to do so.

(in reply to Helen OHara)
Post #: 86
RE: Ratatouille - 21/10/2007 10:20:31 PM   
Castor Troy


Posts: 7074
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Rocky's graveside
I didn't think much of it. Not very funny and the story was a bit boring - no suprises etc. The animation was of course great with a couple of nice sequences. I kinda wish Pixar would make a silent film.

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Post #: 87
- 22/10/2007 11:34:17 AM   
Boutros


Posts: 5
Joined: 4/10/2005
Im amazed that Empire gave this 5 strs and equally amazed that people seem to be agreeing with them.
"Boring" doesn't come close. Terribley paced and predictable.
Yeah, the animation is excellent but the aesthetics alone can't save it.
I would've slept through most of it if it wasn't for the kids talking.
Talking, not laughing.

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Post #: 88
RATATOUILLE - 22/10/2007 1:19:15 PM   
vanpearcey

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 4/10/2005
Great little film. Took a while to get over that the hero was vermin, especially when they're in the kitchen, but how brave of the writers & that's surely the point in the story. Only reason I'm not giving 5 stars is the gag rate. I didn't laugh out loud quite enough for the running time, so not quite Toy Story 2, but still head & shoulders above the competition!

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Post #: 89
RE: Ratatouille - 22/10/2007 2:04:43 PM   
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Posts: 113
Joined: 4/5/2006
Once again Empire have given a distinctly average film 5 stars (brokeback mountain, superman returns, atonement etc). The animation was fantastic but the story just didn't hold my interest and I thought the film was a bit too long. As a fan of Pixar I must say I was very disappointed. Why it has been given 5-stars and other deserving films such as Eastern Promises haven't I will never know.

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Post #: 90
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