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Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 11:25:42 AM  1 votes
Sinatra


Posts: 7841
Joined: 3/10/2005
Wasn't really sure what to call this thread but we came up with the idea whilst having a discussion in this thread http://www.empireonline.com/forum/tm.asp?m=1588504

So feel free to post questions/thoughts regarding new arrivals (children that is) or just general chatter
about your kids.

Our latest addition is just 8 weeks old now - but he's doing fine and importantly/luckily is in a good routine at night now! His older sisters (9 & 12) are extremely doting and to be honest both me ans Mrs S get a break when they come over!!
Post #: 1
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 11:33:21 AM   
matty_b


Posts: 14549
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
Our baby is due in about 7 weeks time (eeeek!!), so it's all getting very exicting here. I'm a stepdad to an 8 year old, but this is our first baby together so it's all new for me. I would ask for advice, but being as a new born baby is such a complex little person, I think most people's first reaction would be where do you want to start?!

But, I'd greatly appreciate any stories or experiences from fathers about their first one...

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ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
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Post #: 2
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 11:35:54 AM   
rikkie


Posts: 4660
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ego Tripping At The Gates Of Hell
Has anyone here any experience of IVF?  It looks like that'd the road me and the good lady wife will imminently be heading down...  Bloody rubbish - especially if it's going to cost me 5K.

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Post #: 3
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 11:36:33 AM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton
quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

But, I'd greatly appreciate any stories or experiences from fathers about their first one...


Me too! Ours is still 4 months away but any advice is most welcome!

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Post #: 4
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 11:41:27 AM   
Neth


Posts: 4750
Joined: 3/10/2005
My daughter is nine now, so all that advice of dealing with newborns is nothing but a distant memory...

I think, if it cries, give it beer. And stop poking it with the stick for a few minutes.

*looks at Father of the Year trophy*

Good times.


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Post #: 5
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 11:53:39 AM   
KennyM


Posts: 2816
Joined: 7/4/2006
My daughters three in a couple of weeks, and I introduced her to Lord of the Rings last night. I covered her eyes/distracted her when the Orcs were on, but she saw Shelob and now wants to dress up as her at Hallo'ween. Good luck with everyone on here who has a new arrival coming, it's great times watching them grow up and they are a source of constant amusement. Only advice I can give is try and get them in a routine as soon as possible, feed/bath/bed or some sort of order like that. The little blighters get used to it and soon fall in to a routine naturally.

(in reply to Neth)
Post #: 6
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 12:30:09 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20117
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
braver man than me, showing your near 3 yr old LOTR! My son is 4, and he's not watched it yet. The wife and I watched the Indiana Jones trilogy last week, and we got to the end of Crusade and, as the guy was 'choosing poorly', I turned to her and said, "that's why we're not letting him watch it yet...". Still, he does have a good selection of films. His favourite at the moment is My Neighbour Totoro. *beams* My son has diversity in his animation.

My social butterfly of a 2 yr old daughter had her first 'settling in' session at her nursery today. Have had to go down private care route this year, as I'm concentrating on my degree and the mrs has returned to work.

Best advice I can think of for new fathers:
1. You'll need coffee. Lots of coffee.
2. Look at it this way: if you're the 'breadwinner', and your other half is staying at home, then while you're in work, so is she - she just isn't getting paid for it. Some statisticians worked out that the work mothers do, were they to get paid, would be earning about 25,000... Humbling thought. The way we worked it is that if she does everything when you get home, she gets no time off. If you take over everything when you get home, you get no time off. Split it half and half - it's the fairest way, and means you get time with the little one. Have a 'dad time' - I always put them to bed, and bath them (but not in that order...).
3. Be there.
4. Enjoy yourself.

It's the most wonderful thing in the world, having children. You might disagree at 4am, when they refuse to go to sleep, but its true. Hearing my daughter chirp 'uv oo daddee' ('love you daddy') and 'ankoo' ('thank you') is simply the best thing in the world.


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Bristol Bad Film Club
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Post #: 7
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 12:32:50 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8038
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

It's the most wonderful thing in the world, having children.

My missus would disagree with you. Apparently it smarts a touch, well so she says.

quote:


You might disagree at 4am, when they refuse to go to sleep, but its true. Hearing my daughter chirp 'uv oo daddee' ('love you daddy') and 'ankoo' ('thank you') is simply the best thing in the world.

indeed, I bet there isn't a dad on the forum who hasn't just recalled a similar moment and smiled when they read that.

< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 17/9/2007 12:33:02 PM >


_____________________________

I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.


Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


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Post #: 8
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 12:46:15 PM   
KennyM


Posts: 2816
Joined: 7/4/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

braver man than me, showing your near 3 yr old LOTR! My son is 4, and he's not watched it yet. The wife and I watched the Indiana Jones trilogy last week, and we got to the end of Crusade and, as the guy was 'choosing poorly', I turned to her and said, "that's why we're not letting him watch it yet...". Still, he does have a good selection of films. His favourite at the moment is My Neighbour Totoro. *beams* My son has diversity in his animation.

My social butterfly of a 2 yr old daughter had her first 'settling in' session at her nursery today. Have had to go down private care route this year, as I'm concentrating on my degree and the mrs has returned to work.

Best advice I can think of for new fathers:
1. You'll need coffee. Lots of coffee.
2. Look at it this way: if you're the 'breadwinner', and your other half is staying at home, then while you're in work, so is she - she just isn't getting paid for it. Some statisticians worked out that the work mothers do, were they to get paid, would be earning about 25,000... Humbling thought. The way we worked it is that if she does everything when you get home, she gets no time off. If you take over everything when you get home, you get no time off. Split it half and half - it's the fairest way, and means you get time with the little one. Have a 'dad time' - I always put them to bed, and bath them (but not in that order...).
3. Be there.
4. Enjoy yourself.

It's the most wonderful thing in the world, having children. You might disagree at 4am, when they refuse to go to sleep, but its true. Hearing my daughter chirp 'uv oo daddee' ('love you daddy') and 'ankoo' ('thank you') is simply the best thing in the world.




You try arguing with her . I didnt let her watch anything to scary, I'm not that cruel. To be honest she's been more scared of the new Dairy Milk advert. Maybe that's just Phil Collins though

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Post #: 9
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 12:50:17 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8038
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: KennyM

You try arguing with her . I didnt let her watch anything to scary, I'm not that cruel. To be honest she's been more scared of the new Dairy Milk advert. Maybe that's just Phil Collins though


Nothing wrong with that drum break.  The Collins had many critics but he sold to a popular market and threw out enough decents tracks to be held in highier esteem than he often is.

< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 17/9/2007 2:30:41 PM >


_____________________________

I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.


Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


(in reply to KennyM)
Post #: 10
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 12:53:07 PM   
KennyM


Posts: 2816
Joined: 7/4/2006
 Fair point Bob, a lot wrong with Phil Collins though. I'm trying to bring her up with a better taste in music than that

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Post #: 11
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 1:05:47 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20117
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
You can't make them like music. When my boy was a baby, he was bopping along to Britney Spears' Toxic......

Actually, here's something I've been doing. I'm compiling a selection of music for each of my children. I'm taking the number 1s from when they were born, and each of their birthdays. Then I'll put the compilation on [insert media format for 2021/2023] for their respective 18th birthdays. It's interesting, and I'm taking a bit of artistic licence with what I include. For instance, there's some doubt over whether a number one was Crazy Frog or some other song. I opted for the other song. I forget which off hand.


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Bristol Bad Film Club
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Post #: 12
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 1:09:35 PM   
Hobbitonlass

 

Posts: 11919
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Westeros
Don't like to intefere in the maleness of this thread but I just had to say that reading the posts so far has made me smile    You don't often hear Dads/would-be-Dads chatting about their experiences and it is lovely.

Carry on chaps!

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Post #: 13
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 1:12:24 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20117
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
hang on. If we're all on here - who's watching the babies?!

Oh, it's ok. The TV's doing it for me......


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That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

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Post #: 14
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 1:22:13 PM   
KennyM


Posts: 2816
Joined: 7/4/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

You can't make them like music. When my boy was a baby, he was bopping along to Britney Spears' Toxic......

Actually, here's something I've been doing. I'm compiling a selection of music for each of my children. I'm taking the number 1s from when they were born, and each of their birthdays. Then I'll put the compilation on [insert media format for 2021/2023] for their respective 18th birthdays. It's interesting, and I'm taking a bit of artistic licence with what I include. For instance, there's some doubt over whether a number one was Crazy Frog or some other song. I opted for the other song. I forget which off hand.



Jesus man, you would think I was serious! Guys, I'm not sitting her in a darkened room with headphones on listening to mix tapes I've made up . You make one joke about Phil Collins......

Anyway number one when Ellie was born...Eric Prydz-Call On Me. Gives me an excuse to watch the video every time it comes on a music channel

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 15
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 2:29:12 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20117
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: KennyM

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

You can't make them like music. When my boy was a baby, he was bopping along to Britney Spears' Toxic......

Actually, here's something I've been doing. I'm compiling a selection of music for each of my children. I'm taking the number 1s from when they were born, and each of their birthdays. Then I'll put the compilation on [insert media format for 2021/2023] for their respective 18th birthdays. It's interesting, and I'm taking a bit of artistic licence with what I include. For instance, there's some doubt over whether a number one was Crazy Frog or some other song. I opted for the other song. I forget which off hand.



Jesus man, you would think I was serious! Guys, I'm not sitting her in a darkened room with headphones on listening to mix tapes I've made up . You make one joke about Phil Collins......

Anyway number one when Ellie was born...Eric Prydz-Call On Me. Gives me an excuse to watch the video every time it comes on a music channel


Well, that'd be the best way to do it, if you were to try
And really, don't call me Jesus... It's Mr Christ to you


_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

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Post #: 16
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 2:31:35 PM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

hang on. If we're all on here - who's watching the babies?!

Oh, it's ok. The TV's doing it for me......



It can do that?! Phew, thats a weight off my mind...

A bit OT, but number one when Mrs Felix and myself got married was Shakira's 'Hips dont lie'. We get strange looks referring to it as 'our song' now...

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Post #: 17
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 2:37:21 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20117
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
You must have gotten married towards the end of June, 2006  It's on my daughter's compilation...!

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

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Post #: 18
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 2:38:59 PM   
KennyM


Posts: 2816
Joined: 7/4/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

quote:

ORIGINAL: KennyM

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

You can't make them like music. When my boy was a baby, he was bopping along to Britney Spears' Toxic......

Actually, here's something I've been doing. I'm compiling a selection of music for each of my children. I'm taking the number 1s from when they were born, and each of their birthdays. Then I'll put the compilation on [insert media format for 2021/2023] for their respective 18th birthdays. It's interesting, and I'm taking a bit of artistic licence with what I include. For instance, there's some doubt over whether a number one was Crazy Frog or some other song. I opted for the other song. I forget which off hand.



Jesus man, you would think I was serious! Guys, I'm not sitting her in a darkened room with headphones on listening to mix tapes I've made up . You make one joke about Phil Collins......

Anyway number one when Ellie was born...Eric Prydz-Call On Me. Gives me an excuse to watch the video every time it comes on a music channel


Well, that'd be the best way to do it, if you were to try
And really, don't call me Jesus... It's Mr Christ to you



Will Mr.C be ok?

And I'll leave the mix-tapes idea for a couple of years yet

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 19
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 2:40:11 PM   
brightlight


Posts: 309
Joined: 21/7/2007
And here was me thinking I'd stumbled upon some particularly indescreet Belgians......

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Post #: 20
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 2:43:07 PM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton
Beginning of August 2006!

Thats a lovely idea with the music.



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Post #: 21
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 3:12:11 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8038
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Felix

Beginning of August 2006!

Thats a lovely idea with the music.




Yep and as with most lovely ideas thought up by us dad's she'll absolutely hate it.

Here's a nice little one for all you new fathers,  Wednesday evening 18:00 I will be down at my daughters school watching the sex education video they plan to show her next week. Apparently its quite tame apart from the birth section    
Whats that you say, when did she grow up so quickly?  She didn't she's 6. 

< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 17/9/2007 3:21:22 PM >


_____________________________

I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.


Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


(in reply to Felix)
Post #: 22
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 3:15:04 PM   
KennyM


Posts: 2816
Joined: 7/4/2006
sex education at six years old! That's a bit mental. I can't even remember when we got ours at school, must have been primary seven at earliest. Surely at six years old they realy don't need to know that much.

And try not to snigger all the way through it Bob

(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 23
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 3:21:03 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8038
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: KennyM

sex education at six years old! That's a bit mental. I can't even remember when we got ours at school, must have been primary seven at earliest. Surely at six years old they realy don't need to know that much.

And try not to snigger all the way through it Bob


I'm terribly immature at things like this.  Certain words in formal situations just kill me.  I mean how on earth am I supposed to keep a straight face if my daughters headmistress says Vagina or Scrotum?  As I said terribly immature but I will snigger I can't help it.  I'd laugh if she said bum.

< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 17/9/2007 3:23:47 PM >


_____________________________

I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.


Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


(in reply to KennyM)
Post #: 24
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 3:24:34 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20117
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: Felix

Beginning of August 2006!

Thats a lovely idea with the music.




Yep and as with most lovely ideas thought up by us dad's she'll absolutely hate it.

Here's a nice little one for all you new fathers,  Wednesday evening 06:00 I will be down at my daughters school watching the sex education video they plan to show her next week. Apparently its quite tame apart from the birth section    
Whats that you say, when did she grow up so quickly?  She didn't she's 6. 




When i qualify in two years, my aim is to be teaching children aged 5-6, and 6-7 (Years 1 and 2, or KS1, depending on your viewpoint.) I didn't for one moment think I'd have to teach sex ed. I remember being taught it when I was 10, and even that seemed young, as (at an all boys school) we were there for the video... (Although watching Manon Des Sources in French lessons was more...gripping).

I guess it depends on how its being taught. There is a lot of stigma attached to sex, and the way its taught, and how we transmit the knowledge to our children. Whichever way you look at it, tho, six just seems too young. Certainly, get the knowledge in there at the prepubescent age - teach them what happens before it becomes a physical possibility, however wrong - but 6?

My only hopes is that because I'm in Wales, that teaching curriculae might differ enough that it isn't on the curriculum, because it seems too young.

The only positive thing I can see is that it doesn't stigmatise it, makes it something that can be discussed easily, that isn't some taboo subject. It may work in the same way that by allowing children a small amount of alcohol in the home - by removing the taboo nature of alcohol - it helps to reduce that knee-jerk reaction to alcohol as a teenager. I'm not suggesting that parents and children are going to freely discuss the ins and outs (pun intended) of sex ed over the evening spag bol, but at least the channels of discussion are open.

Hmm, going to have to think about this, if it's going to be something I'll be teaching......


_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 25
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 3:28:27 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8038
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

My only hopes is that because I'm in Wales, that teaching curriculae might differ enough that it isn't on the curriculum, because it seems too young.


must not make a joke,  must refrain.........Wales having a different sex ed course is not in anyway amusing or an excuse to bring up an old national sterotype.

quote:


The only positive thing I can see is that it doesn't stigmatise it, makes it something that can be discussed easily, that isn't some taboo subject. It may work in the same way that by allowing children a small amount of alcohol in the home - by removing the taboo nature of alcohol - it helps to reduce that knee-jerk reaction to alcohol as a teenager. I'm not suggesting that parents and children are going to freely discuss the ins and outs (pun intended) of sex ed over the evening spag bol, but at least the channels of discussion are open.

Hmm, going to have to think about this, if it's going to be something I'll be teaching......



I'll let you know the content on Thursday I think it should be extremly tame explaining that you need a boy and a girl etc. Thats what I'm hoping for anyway.

< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 17/9/2007 3:30:00 PM >


_____________________________

I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.


Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 26
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 3:43:40 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20117
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
I'm English, so I'm fine... 

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 27
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 3:56:47 PM   
KennyM


Posts: 2816
Joined: 7/4/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

My only hopes is that because I'm in Wales, that teaching curriculae might differ enough that it isn't on the curriculum, because it seems too young.


must not make a joke,  must refrain.........Wales having a different sex ed course is not in anyway amusing or an excuse to bring up an old national sterotype.

quote:




The only positive thing I can see is that it doesn't stigmatise it, makes it something that can be discussed easily, that isn't some taboo subject. It may work in the same way that by allowing children a small amount of alcohol in the home - by removing the taboo nature of alcohol - it helps to reduce that knee-jerk reaction to alcohol as a teenager. I'm not suggesting that parents and children are going to freely discuss the ins and outs (pun intended) of sex ed over the evening spag bol, but at least the channels of discussion are open.

Hmm, going to have to think about this, if it's going to be something I'll be teaching......



I'll let you know the content on Thursday I think it should be extremly tame explaining that you need a boy and a girl etc. Thats what I'm hoping for anyway.


I hope it's like the Simpsons episode with the two rabbits, narrated by Troy McClure

< Message edited by KennyM -- 17/9/2007 3:57:50 PM >

(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 28
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 4:03:58 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20117
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
"he grew fur where previously there was no fur"

"later that night..."




_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to KennyM)
Post #: 29
RE: Kids & Babies Thread - 17/9/2007 4:12:42 PM   
jonson


Posts: 9004
Joined: 30/9/2005
Just a quick one here.
Talking of music, when my wife was pregnant with our first, she listened to Radiohead's The Bends non-stop (I think it had only just been released) When my daughter was 11 months old, we put the record on and my daughter just stopped in her tracks and had this happy but vague expression on her face. We realised then that she recognised the music, possibly the beats. We mentioned it to the doctor and she confirmed that this is quite common.
We stick it on now and she says "it's quite good Daddy, but not as good as OK Computer"
When the missus was preggers with the second, I locked her in a room and blasted her with Soundgarden and Hendrix for 9 months. Radio 1 was also banned.


I'm a  bit busy at the minute, but I could ramble about how wonderful kids are all day. My life would be incomplete without them, a bad day at work is soon forgotten about when your own child throws their arms around you. My girls are 10 and 8 and I'm still met at the door with a smile, a kiss and a cuddle.
One day my wife tells me that that won't be the case and I fear that day more than I fear my own demise, but hey, I might have grandchildren by then.
However much they wind you up, however much you have a bad day at work, my only advice is to love them as much as you possibly can, and more importantly, let them know it.
I never let my kids go to bed without them knowing I'm there to love and to protect them.
I'm not talking about wrapping them in cotton wool (which I'm afraid we all do to a certain extent) I'm talking about making them feel wanted and secure.
Just for God's sake enjoy them, as the cliche about them growing up quickly is painfully, painfully true.

Tomorrow's advice: How to smack them hard without hurting yourself 


_____________________________

I've got all the Barbie ones!!!

Yeah but you're old. Really old. Old. Old. Old. Old.

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 30
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