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RE: James Bond Series - 7/11/2012 4:38:17 PM   
matty_b


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RE: James Bond Series - 7/11/2012 4:46:56 PM   
MonsterCat


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 Using that remark as a stick to beat Skyfall with is a bit redundant because we're talking about a character who displayed a flippant attitude towards killing people when he was played by Moore, Connery and Brosnan.

But yeah, at the time that line seemed like an odd choice. But maybe there was more to it and I didn't pick up on it.

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Post #: 182
RE: James Bond Series - 7/11/2012 4:47:35 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1095
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From: Great Britain
 When has Bond cared about the fate of the women he sleeps with? It's not exactly a new phenomenon introduced in the Daniel Craig films that he puts them into danger with little to no thought for their wellbeing, and they quite often end up dead, is it.

Also, making jokes about a character's death is just a much a hallmark of the series as the Bond girls themselves.

< Message edited by AxlReznor -- 7/11/2012 4:51:43 PM >

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Post #: 183
RE: James Bond Series - 7/11/2012 4:50:38 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14541
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The scene you mention is one of the reasons i dislike Craigs Bond.He doesnt seem to care that this woman was tortured and killed.Also,he should have realised that the woman would have been a target once he got what info he was looking for and told her to leave immediately.



Roger Moore's Bond in Moonraker does that. Seduces Drax's secretary, gets the info, she's all worried, he's tells her not to worry despite compromising her, he sods off, she's savaged by dogs.



< Message edited by Timon -- 7/11/2012 4:58:55 PM >

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Post #: 184
RE: James Bond Series - 7/11/2012 4:51:23 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 12847
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From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
 He also threatens to break Maud Adams arm in Man with the Golden Gun if he doesn't help her.

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Post #: 185
RE: James Bond Series - 7/11/2012 4:52:41 PM   
Deviation


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From: Enemies of Film HQ
 The reaction to the death of the female field agent in Thunderball is also....interesting.

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Post #: 186
RE: James Bond Series - 7/11/2012 5:04:27 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14541
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The most offending moment in Craigs Bond films though is in QOS where he tosses a friends dead body in a dumpster and takes his wallet.What a guy! Seriously are the writers trying that hard to make us dislike this character?



It's a fair point, but like he said Mathis wouldn't have minded. After all, he forgave him for having him stunned and tortured. Plus they couldn't just leave him in the road or drop him off at a local morgue, they were being hunted by corrupt police officers.





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Post #: 187
RE: James Bond Series - 7/11/2012 5:17:48 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18881
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From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The most offending moment in Craigs Bond films though is in QOS where he tosses a friends dead body in a dumpster and takes his wallet.What a guy! Seriously are the writers trying that hard to make us dislike this character?




The scene makes perfect sense. He is shot, Bond stays with him, and gives comfort until he dies. When he is dead, Bond puts him in the bin to slow down the police chasing them. The woman asks him if that is how he treats his friends to which Bond responds that he wouldn't care. They are both agents, they both know that things like that have to be done. That is the point, and why they share a joke about his codename.

Also he doesn't take the wallet. He takes a note from the wallet and then throws it back into the dumpster.

What you seem to be missing CB is the very touching moments between the two before he dies. You can't have been watching the film very hard if you think Bond didn't care.

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Post #: 188
RE: James Bond Series - 7/11/2012 6:36:20 PM   
Vadersville


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Isn't the fact that women have died because/for Bond a strong theme running through the first two Craig films anyway? It's even referenced in dialogue more than once. i.e. “Look how well your charm works, James. They’ll do anything for you, won’t they? How many is that now?” - M. In the final set piece of QoS, he lets the bad guy, the man he has been trying to get to for the whole film, escape to go save Camille. He does of course catch up with Greene but he didn't know that then. He chose her over his own vengeance. That's called a character arc.

As for the scene in Skyfall. To be fair, Bond deliberately misses when he's made to fire at Sévérine. Once Bond and Silva has fired the one shot in his pistol Silva's men visibly let their guard down a bit and Bond uses that to his advnatage, That line as well isn't said maliciously but rather to hide his own feelings and to further distract Silva and his men.

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Post #: 189
RE: James Bond Series - 8/11/2012 3:27:25 PM   
Timon


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Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

Isn't the fact that women have died because/for Bond a strong theme running through the first two Craig films anyway? It's even referenced in dialogue more than once. i.e. “Look how well your charm works, James. They’ll do anything for you, won’t they? How many is that now?” - M.



"I might as well ask you if all those vodka martinis ever silence the screams of all the men you've killed... or if you find forgiveness in the arms of all those willing women for all the dead ones you failed to protect."


_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

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Post #: 190
RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 8:06:25 AM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 822
Joined: 14/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

Isn't the fact that women have died because/for Bond a strong theme running through the first two Craig films anyway? It's even referenced in dialogue more than once. i.e. “Look how well your charm works, James. They’ll do anything for you, won’t they? How many is that now?” - M.



"I might as well ask you if all those vodka martinis ever silence the screams of all the men you've killed... or if you find forgiveness in the arms of all those willing women for all the dead ones you failed to protect."



Great line.

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Post #: 191
RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 12:04:04 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 1624
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The most offending moment in Craigs Bond films though is in QOS where he tosses a friends dead body in a dumpster and takes his wallet.What a guy! Seriously are the writers trying that hard to make us dislike this character?




The scene makes perfect sense. He is shot, Bond stays with him, and gives comfort until he dies. When he is dead, Bond puts him in the bin to slow down the police chasing them. The woman asks him if that is how he treats his friends to which Bond responds that he wouldn't care. They are both agents, they both know that things like that have to be done. That is the point, and why they share a joke about his codename.

Also he doesn't take the wallet. He takes a note from the wallet and then throws it back into the dumpster.

What you seem to be missing CB is the very touching moments between the two before he dies. You can't have been watching the film very hard if you think Bond didn't care.


I disagree.And its been four years since iv seen the film and was extremely bored watching it so i dont remember the '' joke '' you mention.I just remember it being a repulsive scene and his excuse that Mathis '' wouldnt care '' doesnt cut it.

Regarding the gun barell at the start of Skyfall ( or lack thereof ), Sam Mendes says he '' always intended to start the film with the gunbarrell ''.Frankly i dont buy his excuse that it '' didnt work '' with his opening shot.Hes the director for crying out loud! Couldnt he have constucted the opening shot to compliment the gunbarrell? Just seems like hes making these excuses possibly because Barbara Broccoli in her continuing effort to destroy the grand traditions of the series ordered him to stick it at the end instead ( possibly because Craig looks so bad doing i judging by the gunbarrell shot that appeared at the end of QOS ).

Anyway thats my now traditional rant whenever a new Craig Bond film is released over with.Carry on people.

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Post #: 192
RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 12:08:20 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18881
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The most offending moment in Craigs Bond films though is in QOS where he tosses a friends dead body in a dumpster and takes his wallet.What a guy! Seriously are the writers trying that hard to make us dislike this character?




The scene makes perfect sense. He is shot, Bond stays with him, and gives comfort until he dies. When he is dead, Bond puts him in the bin to slow down the police chasing them. The woman asks him if that is how he treats his friends to which Bond responds that he wouldn't care. They are both agents, they both know that things like that have to be done. That is the point, and why they share a joke about his codename.

Also he doesn't take the wallet. He takes a note from the wallet and then throws it back into the dumpster.

What you seem to be missing CB is the very touching moments between the two before he dies. You can't have been watching the film very hard if you think Bond didn't care.


I disagree.And its been four years since iv seen the film and was extremely bored watching it so i dont remember the '' joke '' you mention.I just remember it being a repulsive scene and his excuse that Mathis '' wouldnt care '' doesnt cut it.



Here it is - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5INLbmW-HVo

But please go on and tell me how wrong I am again.


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Post #: 193
RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 12:15:22 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18881
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
 Also Mathis himself had used other dead bodies to help Bond in Royale. He was pragmatic - which is why Bond said that he wouldn't care. He understood the world they were in together. But the music and Craig should be enough to tell you that it hurt him to do this to his friend. But hey, I am sure you will respond and tell me he is a crappy actor and the music was rubbish and what a nasty horrible man James Bond is in the film.

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Post #: 194
RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 12:20:18 PM   
Vadersville


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Joined: 30/9/2005
Exactly. He stayed with Mathis and gave him comfort in his last moments. Once he was dead, there wasn't a lot he could do. He couldn't bury him. And Mathis, like Bond, is the kind of man who wouldn't care what happened to his body after he died. It was the moments before Mathis died that Bond showed compassion and how much he really DID care.

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Post #: 195
RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 12:56:46 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 19962
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From: Springfield
 I rewatched QoS the other night. Upon release I was not hugely impressed. BUT, in retrospect, after Skyfall, QoS works. I mean, it really works. As a three-film arc taking us from Bond's beginnings in Casino Royale, through the murky revenge-laden QoS, a grimy, dirty film showing Bond's lowest point, to the majesty of Skyfall and a triumphal return to the Bond of old by the end of Skyfall, it really, really works. It has to be taken in the context of CR and SF, but I have really reappraised QoS. It's not the Bond film we all know and love - it's a film which stars James Bond, and that's the difference. On its own, I agree that it doesn't quite work. But, contextually, in relation to CR, which it is connected to plot-wise it works. And tonally, by contrasting with Skyfall, which is everything you want in a Bond film, it works. QoS is the pain and suffering for which Skyfall provides the catharsis. To emerge into the light you first need to be in the dark. QoS makes Skyfall a better film, and that works the other way as well.

I'm going to write more on this when I get the chance, but I've been ticking it over in my mind since I watched QoS the other night, and post-Skyfall it's like watching a different film.

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Post #: 196
RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 1:14:27 PM   
Timon


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From: Bristol

I agree, but I've always liked Quantum as a 'sequel' to Casino Royale. As a stand alone Bond film, it doesn't work as well, which you could argue led to the backlash. Or you could blame the script, which has its share of problems.

However I still enjoy it. Especially the opera house scene.

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

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Post #: 197
RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 1:16:33 PM   
Harry Tuttle


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From: Sometime in the future.
 Yeah I agree as well. I'd only seen QoS at the pics and I thought it was a huge dissapointment after the great Casino Royale. I watched it again last week, after I'd seen Skyfall, and I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more.

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Post #: 198
RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 1:52:55 PM   
Vadersville


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I've always loved QoS. Sure it's a sequel to CR but that's part of the reason why I love it. Just the fact that it deals with the fallout from the previous film and its effects on Bond lends more gravitas to the series. I also don't agree with the common argument that it 'unBond', whatever that really means. It has a lot in common with From Russia With Love (arguably the quintessential Bond film) and License to Kill. I also thought the nod to the earlier films (Fields being found on the bed covered in oil) was much more effective and subtle than some of the in-your-face moments of Skyfall.

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RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 2:05:40 PM   
matty_b


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From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
 I love it when people post about Bond films with intelligence and analysis.

Makes such a difference.

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RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 2:26:46 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 19962
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From: Springfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

I love it when people post about Bond films with intelligence and analysis.

Makes such a difference.


My "this is the Internet, default assumption is sarcasm is being used" identifier roared into life there, and I just assumed you were being sarcastic at first.

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RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 2:33:11 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 12847
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From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
 Who, me?



Szly though, great analysis of a Bond film I was always disappointed with. Might give it a revisit myself.

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RE: James Bond Series - 9/11/2012 6:25:56 PM   
superdan


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I revised my opinion of QoS on it's home release. Like many others I found it underwhelming at the cinema, but when it came out on Blu-Ray I watched it in a double bill straight after Casino Royale and it seemed like a completely different film to the one I'd watched when it was released. I've made a point of emphasising that it is very much an installment rather than a stand-alone movie to everyone I've happened to discuss it with since who didn't enjoy it.

Not seen Skyfall yet but really looking forward to it if it ties in with the previous two so well.

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Post #: 203
RE: James Bond Series - 10/11/2012 7:05:00 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 12847
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
 HEY GUYS LOOK WHAT ROGER MOORE SAYS ABOUT DANIEL CRAIG

http://uk.omg.yahoo.com/news/roger-moore-daniel-craig-brings-killer-instinct-bond-163449896.html

*waits for inevitable whinge of "he's only saying it to be nice".


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Post #: 204
RE: James Bond Series - 10/11/2012 7:22:31 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 19962
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

HEY GUYS LOOK WHAT ROGER MOORE SAYS ABOUT DANIEL CRAIG

http://uk.omg.yahoo.com/news/roger-moore-daniel-craig-brings-killer-instinct-bond-163449896.html

*waits for inevitable whinge of "he's only saying it to be nice".



My favourite bit of that article is where the editor clarifies who Roger Moore meant by "Cubby" by saying, "Barbara Broccoli".

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RE: James Bond Series - 10/11/2012 8:29:17 PM   
directorscut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon



I agree, but I've always liked Quantum as a 'sequel' to Casino Royale. As a stand alone Bond film, it doesn't work as well, which you could argue led to the backlash. Or you could blame the script, which has its share of problems.

However I still enjoy it. Especially the opera house scene.


I think you'd be more apt to blame the incoherent and incompetent camerawork and editing which made it impossible to follow anything happening onscreen.

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RE: James Bond Series - 10/11/2012 8:38:07 PM   
Vadersville


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quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut


quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon



I agree, but I've always liked Quantum as a 'sequel' to Casino Royale. As a stand alone Bond film, it doesn't work as well, which you could argue led to the backlash. Or you could blame the script, which has its share of problems.

However I still enjoy it. Especially the opera house scene.


I think you'd be more apt to blame the incoherent and incompetent camerawork and editing which made it impossible to follow anything happening onscreen.


The editing and camerawork is nowhere near erratic as people make out and the action is perfectly coherrent and consise. The only example where I agree the editing fucks up is when the Quantum agent reveals himself during Mr.White's interrogation, one shot makes it look like M has been shot dead but then a few shots later we briefly see her escaping up the stairs.

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RE: James Bond Series - 10/11/2012 8:52:49 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 19962
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
 I have expanded at length on my thoughts up thread on the link in my sig. I consider CR, QoS, and SF, to be a cohesive trilogy which I have dubbed the James Bond Origin Trilogy. I fear the acronym JBOT is not the best...

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RE: James Bond Series - 10/11/2012 9:04:51 PM   
Vadersville


Posts: 2898
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

I have expanded at length on my thoughts up thread on the link in my sig. I consider CR, QoS, and SF, to be a cohesive trilogy which I have dubbed the James Bond Origin Trilogy. I fear the acronym JBOT is not the best...


Interesting article. But you lost my endorsement when it came clear you're on of "those" that believe each Bond actor is playing a different person. Also, I was surprised that you thought Casino Royale was a prequel when its a reboot, just like Batman Begins. It was even nicknamed Bond Begins for awhile during production. But then I also know people who still insist Nolan's trilogy are prequels to Tim Burton's films. Even after DKR...

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Post #: 209
RE: James Bond Series - 10/11/2012 9:30:38 PM   
moviebuff73

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 7/6/2012
From: diss
 with the exception of on her majesty's secret service, JAMES BOND RULES!

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Post #: 210
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