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RE: James Bond Series - 29/10/2012 8:21:37 PM

Vadersville

Posts: 2895
Joined: 30/9/2005

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Confusion is a way of life, not a state of mind

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Post #: 121

RE: James Bond Series - 29/10/2012 8:22:54 PM

Hood_Man

Posts: 11267
Joined: 30/9/2005

I was convinced Finney was going to be a Secret Service official who was higher than M, and that somehow the bulldog on M's desk was referring to him somehow

(in reply to jonson)

Post #: 122

RE: James Bond Series - 29/10/2012 9:05:11 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1617
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

Was watching The Spy Who Loved Me today.Roger Moore at his best in what is probably the best Bond film ever made.

Just how epic was this set? I miss the days when Bond villains were megalomaniacs with plans on world domination.

(in reply to Hood_Man)

Post #: 123

RE: James Bond Series - 29/10/2012 11:10:04 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6207
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: manwihtheplan

Which is a lame excuse. When the film was being storyboarded someone could have said "you do know if we go with that first establishing shot we can't do a gun barrel?" And some bright spark could have replied "oh yeah!, let's change the first shot so we can do a gun barrel."

It's obvious they had no intention of doing a gun barrel and the reason is clear. Barbara Broccoli wants to distance the Craig era Bond films from those of her father. Moving the gun barrel to the end or after the pre-credit scene (as was the case in Casino Royale, and the gun barrel scene was set in a toilet!) is her way of trying to put her own signature on the franchise but it's a misguided signature. The Craig Bond films do not benefit by moving the gun barrel opening. Regardless of the content of the three Craig James Bond film, the producers have failed to respect the purpose of the gun barrel. They've shown the ignorance or naivety. Then again, perhaps they're just a bit arrogant and think they can do what they like and expect fans to accept such changes.

You really need to get naked with a girl.

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Post #: 124

RE: James Bond Series - 30/10/2012 8:59:03 AM

matty_b

Posts: 12839
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Mattyb is a shining example of what the perfect Empire Forum member is.

(in reply to MonsterCat)

Post #: 125

RE: James Bond Series - 30/10/2012 12:33:24 PM

Timon

Posts: 14541
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

Ok, so let's dissect and speculate - because it's fun.

I personally got the impression that a few years had passed since 'Solace' and Bond had become older, wiser, more experienced (and had also got the DB5 pimped) - so why did he 'stay dead'? Sure, he was pissed off that M gave the shoot order, but he knows the business he's in, he knows he's disposable, after all 00s have very short life expectancies...

Also, was anyone else shocked by Severine's death? I mean, considering Bond killed all the henchmen five seconds later, I was surprised he let that happen. In fact, his treatment of Severine was more akin to Connery's in the 60s than the more touchy feely Bond of 'Royale' and 'Solace'. After all, she's an abused, former child sex slave who is terrified of her employee, so what does Bond do? Sleep with her, compromise her and get her killed? It's what Connery's (Jill Masterson in Goldfinger) and Moore's Bond (Drax's secretary in Moonraker) might have done, but I was surpised that in happened in 2012.

In fact, why the hell did he even leave her cabin? He could have snuck aboard once the ship docked? But no, he strolled out on deck and all the henchmen turned their guns on him and her.

< Message edited by Timon -- 30/10/2012 12:41:37 PM >

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to matty_b)

Post #: 126

RE: James Bond Series - 30/10/2012 1:58:23 PM

jonson

Posts: 8057
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

In fact, why the hell did he even leave her cabin? He could have snuck aboard once the ship docked? But no, he strolled out on deck and all the henchmen turned their guns on him and her.

Yeah, I wondered that. It seemed quite reckless, although Bond always has been. I guess it shows the side of Bond that has utter contempt for anyone (mainly women) as long as the job gets done, a bit like a secret agent Savile.

I also wondered how long had passed before Bond was shot off the train and he appeared in M's room (I recall in CR that M said "don't ever break into my apartment again" with the kind of look that said "or I'll kill you")
I guessed it was a TDKR moment when it could have been 6 months or a year, but then something was mentioned a bit further in the film (can't remember what) that I thought implied it was only a matter of weeks/months. Certainly his scar looked well healed.

Talking of which, did he leave the shrapnel in his shoulder until he knew it could be analysed?
Or purely because he was having trouble aiming properly?
It seemed like the latter to me, but thinking about it, I'm pretty sure he would have cut it out a lot earlier (certainly as he didn't seem to have any wish to go back to MI6)

< Message edited by jonson -- 30/10/2012 1:59:08 PM >

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Post #: 127

RE: James Bond Series - 30/10/2012 2:37:02 PM

Timon

Posts: 14541
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

Yeah, I was wondering why it took him so long to remove the bullet fragments, especially if it seemed to be causing him pain in everyday life... He must have been 'off the grid' for at least two to three months, maybe less, once Patrice got away with the hard drive and Silva started leaking MI6 agents' aliases.

In fact, you could argue that the film is one big PR nightmare for MI6! M's tenure comes to an end with her being accused of incompetence, Eve takes a desk job because she can't shoot straight and can't handle the pressures of being in the field and Bond goes AWOL, returns, fails all his assessments, gets captured, essentially kidnaps M to protects her, fails to do so and is then reinstated!

Oh, 007.

Still... really enjoyed it!

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to jonson)

Post #: 128

RE: James Bond Series - 30/10/2012 3:26:51 PM

licencetokilt

Posts: 18
Joined: 26/10/2012

Okay, here's my thoughts on the Bond series...
Dr. No: Iconic, classic, a landmark....and it mostly bored me. Good individual moments (the 'three blind mice' bit, the spider, Bond shooting Dent), but it's dated badly. The finale almost sent me to sleep.

From Russia with Love: Now we're talking! Much tighter, stronger story, great suspense, great villains, and a hell of a scrap on the train.

Goldfinger: A lot of fun, but not as good as FRWL - this has more or less all the elements in check but it seems more vintage than anything, I can appreciate it, but it doesn't get me going.

Thunderball: A wet Goldfinger, and not as good. Hilarious sped-up footage in the final boat sequence though, and of course, it's all entertaining, but I drift in and out of this one.

You Only Live Twice: Bigger and better, the only problems are the little things (who's filming all the action in space that Blofeld and Bond are watching?/for some reason the name 'Little Nellie' sets my teeth on edge/Bond's Japanese makeover) - mostly this is the best of the 'grand' Bonds - in other words, the Lewis Gilbert ones.

On Her Majesty's Secret Service: Phenomenal. Lazenby lacks the edge, but he's got the heart, and that final scene is abolsutely beautiful. The best action of the series so far, the best Barry score so far....it's a real peach.

[i]Diamonds are Forever: Lush Barry score and the funniest script of the series so far, but a bit of a joke after the impact of OHMSS. Bond's confrontation with Blofeld in the Whyte House doesn't get you thinking for a second that this man's wife was murdered by the other. Ending's a bit of a let-down, but I really like this one!

[i]Live and Let Die: I grew up watching the Moore films on video, and I really love the whole Blaxploitation/voodoo.US feel to this one. Yaphet Kotto is pure gold as the villain, I love the henchmen, and some bits will stay with me forever (the opening funeral, the speedboat chase, the crocs, Baron Samedi with a chunk of his head missing).

The Man with the Golden Gun: Scaramanga's the best villain so far, score is gorgeous, love all the bits on the island, but too much humour threatens to seriously derail this one. Scenes between hero and villain seriously good - great dialogue. Nick Nack in a suitcase - just bad.

[i]The Spy Who Loved Me: For some reason, I just don't love this one, even if it is the one Moore film we're all allowed to like. I find the final act a real drag, and Stromberg's not the best villain. Good early scenes though, an amusing soundtrack, and Jaws is pretty frightening here!

[i]Moonraker: As slightly underrated as much as The Spy Who Loved Me is slightly overrated, this has its moments - the cable car, the centrifuge and the dog attack, but a lot of the space scenes are drab. Jaws becomes a joke. Holly Goodhead is beautiful but boring. Drax is a most amusing villain, and the 'Flight Into Space' sequence is one of John Barry's best moments.

For Your Eyes Only: Hilariously silly pre-credits bit aside, this is a straight-up thriller - I love the disco Bond soundtrack, the stunts are terrific and there are some great set-pieces, especially the mountain ascension and the shark bait bit. Villain is good but not great.Has an edge that none of the other Moore films have.

[i]Octopussy: A personal favourite - lavish, spectacular and very funny, with the lushest Barry score in ages, an underrated villain (Louis Jourdan), and Moore on top form. Of all the silly Bonds, this is by far the best one. Yet abundance of humour makes you forget how good the suspense is in places - the bomb bit at the end gets me every time, as does the bit with the clown near the start. And who doesn't feel sorry for poor Vijay?

A View to a Kill: Incredible Barry action theme and my personal favourite villain aside, this runs on low gear - Stacey Sutton is am embarrassing Bond girl and there's too much padding. Still, it's a nostalgic treat for me, despite the fact that I should know better. 'California Girls' bit the second worst moment in the series.

The Living Daylights: Now we're talking. Timothy Dalton, the true great underrated Bond. Overlong antics in Afghanistan aside, this has the edge, the romance, the suspense and the spectacle I want from Bond. Pity about the so-so villains, although the milk bottle hurling henchmen is great.

Licence to Kill: One of the best in the series. Action is amazing, Kamen's score underrated, Dalton mean and intense, the villains truly despicable and the atmosphere unparalleled in its feel of real danger. This is a million miles away from Moonraker and by I feel as knackered and exhausted as Dalton does as he leans back and (watch for it) almost gags after all he's been through. Happy-go-lucky shot of Felix at the end the only apallingly misjudged moment.

[i]Goldeneye: Sleek, smooth and insanely entertaining, this is one of the most fun Bonds ever, not a comeback in my books (I loved the last one), but still a real re-charge and the best Brosnan film. Sean Bean delightful, the women are terrific, the score unique (in a good way), the set-pieces incredible....almost a perfect Bond film.

Tomorrow Never Dies: Fun, but worryingly anonymous, this is a well-oiled machine, runs well but a bit soulless. The action is relentless but it becomes a bit wearying in the second half. Villain could have done with more edge but is still pretty enjoyable.

The World is Not Enough: Sophie Marceau is the best female in any Bond, ever. She takes this film, with its decent but not great action, atrocious humour and worst Bond girl ever (Denise Richards) and gives it real class and seductiveness.

Die Another Day: Worst Bond film ever. Worst theme tune ever. Worst Brosnan performance. Unfunniest script. Special effects appalling. Only good elements are the hilarious villain and occasional outlandish set-piece (the fencing duel). Otherwise, a disaster.

[i]Casino Royale: Probably the greatest comeback in cinema history. It's like the series has been completely reborn. It's not like the old Bonds, but it's something new, and something brilliant. Craig is excellent, Eva Green luscious, tension through the roof, emotion in high gear, what a movie!

Quantum of Solace: What the fuck happened? Seriously? Following one of the best with one of the worst, this has the weakest action of the series thanks to its ghastly editing, and yet it has the MOST action in the series. A totally uninspired film.

[i]Skyfall:[/i] Overlong and sprawling, but a major return to form. Bond women brilliant but underused, decision to delve into Bond's past interesting but potentially demystifying, and do we really want that? Action great. Theme tune great. A lot of fun. However, does the last scene bring everything back to the old Bonds, and away from everything Casino Royale was delivering?

< Message edited by licencetokilt -- 30/10/2012 3:28:49 PM >

(in reply to Timon)

Post #: 129

Skyfall - 2/11/2012 1:01:48 PM

Timon

Posts: 14541
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Yeah, I was wondering why it took him so long to remove the bullet fragments, especially if it seemed to be causing him pain in everyday life... He must have been 'off the grid' for at least two to three months, maybe less, once Patrice got away with the hard drive and Silva started leaking MI6 agents' aliases.

In fact, you could argue that the film is one big PR nightmare for MI6! M's tenure comes to an end with her being accused of incompetence, Eve takes a desk job because she can't shoot straight and can't handle the pressures of being in the field and Bond goes AWOL, returns, fails all his assessments, gets captured, essentially kidnaps M to protects her, fails to do so and is then reinstated!

Oh, 007.

Still... really enjoyed it!

So... did their retrieve the rest of the 'agent list'?

Did the Secret Service strike team find it on Silva's private island? I assume so as it was never mentioned again...

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Timon)

Post #: 130

RE: Skyfall - 2/11/2012 4:17:26 PM

jonson

Posts: 8057
Joined: 30/9/2005

And why did the private island looked like it had been a nuclear test island?
I realise people were forced out in a rush, but here were broken windows, smashed columns, bent rusty bikes. It was like Hiroshima a week after the bomb had dropped.
I mean, if you're going to nick an island, at least have the decencey to fucking well looking after it.

_____________________________

I've got all the Barbie ones!!!

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Post #: 131

RE: Skyfall - 2/11/2012 5:35:53 PM

Deviation

Posts: 26905
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Yeah, I was wondering why it took him so long to remove the bullet fragments, especially if it seemed to be causing him pain in everyday life... He must have been 'off the grid' for at least two to three months, maybe less, once Patrice got away with the hard drive and Silva started leaking MI6 agents' aliases.

In fact, you could argue that the film is one big PR nightmare for MI6! M's tenure comes to an end with her being accused of incompetence, Eve takes a desk job because she can't shoot straight and can't handle the pressures of being in the field and Bond goes AWOL, returns, fails all his assessments, gets captured, essentially kidnaps M to protects her, fails to do so and is then reinstated!

Oh, 007.

Still... really enjoyed it!

So... did their retrieve the rest of the 'agent list'?

Did the Secret Service strike team find it on Silva's private island? I assume so as it was never mentioned again...

I thought yes, considering Silva was sending the agent list from that island.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Timon)

Post #: 132

RE: James Bond Series - 3/11/2012 11:56:14 PM

combourg

Posts: 15
Joined: 13/1/2008

Really enjoyed Skyfall lots but the best ever? Very good no doubt but lots of holes!
Of late they have all said they wanted to make Bond more realistic! Well falling 100ft off a bridge neck 1st into water, Bonds dead before the opening credits roll!
And really would Q plug the bad guys pc into MI5s mainframe, which the man has already hacked into, without thinking about virusis?
Also the security gaurds on the various goverment buildings. Who employed them ? The same people who supplied the guards at the Olympics? 3 bad guys walk in kill everyone and the home team barely get a shot off!

On the island. Could Bond not have pulled off his action bit 30 seconds earlier and saved the girl? It's not like the helicopters did bugger all to help!

The end was telegraphed too early by Kincade as he puts the knife on the table and states something to the effect of "The old ways are the best" Bit like Aliens when Ripley was driving the loader, ya just knew it would come to the fore later.

Oh, and the CGI on the lizard! and people complain about DAD! though the explosion on Tintagell, stunning!

A fantastic Bond baddie, (I would love to see the out takes from the strapped to the chair homo-erotic scene! bet they are a hoot) A great opening set and all in all a darn good night out!

Just one other thing, why the bloody hell, I'm English but I live in France so it might be different here, do Cinemas have to sell dustbins of popcorn so ya end up sitting next to people chewing gravel all the way through a film which they then wash down very noisely with a bucket of coke sucked through a straw which sounds like a karcher? I wanna hear the bloody film!

(in reply to darth silas)

Post #: 133

RE: James Bond Series - 4/11/2012 11:35:04 AM

Magneto

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/7/2012
From: Scotland

In another dimension, Dalton would have started with A View To A Kill and ended with Goldeneye and we'd be talking about the best Bond fullstop.

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Post #: 134

RE: James Bond Series - 4/11/2012 12:07:17 PM

Vadersville

Posts: 2895
Joined: 30/9/2005

My latest unpopular movie opinion: Skyfall, is good, but the weakest out of Craig's Bonds. Quantum of Solace is the best.

I definitley need to see Skyfall again, perhaps my expectations were too high but, whilst I did really enjoy it, it didn't reach the same levels as CR or QoS.

Things I Didn't Like:
- The Aston Martin DB5 having gadgets. Of course you could argue that since winning the car back in CR, Bond has had the thing kitted out, but no doubt this will give ammunition to those silly fools who still think CR and QoS were in the same continuity as the previous Bonds. Plus it took me out of the movie a bit. It was like "Oh look! It's the 50th anniversary!" I liked seeing the DB5 again, but it didn't need the gadgets.
- The odd zoom in to Bond's outraged face as the DB5 is blown up with the Bond theme blaring. WTF? The car was already obliterated so why does this push Bond over the edge? And why does the Bond theme kick in? Such a bizzare moment I actually laughed out loud in the cinema.
- The CG lizards.
- The way Bond fought in the lizard pit. He looked so odd! His fighting stance looked like he was about to break into dance rather than knock the shit out of someone. Did Craig have a different fight choreographer than the last two?
- Silva's island. The idea that Silva had stolen an entire island was fantastic and the location looked brilliant, reminded me of Inception, but it was wasted. We have one scene inside a computer terminal and one in a court yard and it's back to good old England. Huh?
- Returning to an office for M that looks EXACTLY like the one from the old films, even down to the coat stand. Again "Looky! Looky! 50th anniversary!"

Things I Did Like:
- Opening set piece. Superb. Loved every second. Sadly the film's action never reaches the heights of this opening sequence.
- Bond going dark after being shot, feeling betrayed and then coming back but still not himself. After the disgrace of Die Another day it was great to see them get Bearded Bond right this time.
- That whole sequence in Shanghai. The tension as Bond is dangling on the underneath of the elevator with his fucked shoulder. The moment where he's almost spotted but saved by the reflection of the advertisement lights from outside reflecting off the glass door. That fight where the two figures are silhouetted against the bright lights, their faces occassionaly lit up by the muzzle flash from the gun. Can't fault it it in anyway. Brilliant!
- Bond in a tux on a boat approaching the casino in Macau. That one shot is one of the most beautiful shots I have ever seen.
- Bond's conversation with S�v�rine. Particularly the line where Bond tells her he knows the look of a woman who is lying, who is scared. Nice nod back to Vesper.
- Finally confirming in the new continuity that he is still Commander Bond of the Royal Navy and not as some had speculated after Vesper's comment in CR, ex-SAS.

_____________________________

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Post #: 135

RE: James Bond Series - 4/11/2012 1:54:30 PM

Deviation

Posts: 26905
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

Of late they have all said they wanted to make Bond more realistic! Well falling 100ft off a bridge neck 1st into water, Bonds dead before the opening credits roll!

The realistic part of Bond is now going away from the franchise, hence why such stunts are acceptable. Plus it's Bond

quote:

And really would Q plug the bad guys pc into MI5s mainframe, which the man has already hacked into, without thinking about virusis?

Wasn't it because it was a cleverly hidden virus that made itself look invisible and disguised itself as a security system of sorts?

quote:

Also the security gaurds on the various goverment buildings. Who employed them ? The same people who supplied the guards at the Olympics? 3 bad guys walk in kill everyone and the home team barely get a shot off!

Can't you say that on any soldier, henchman and policeman in Bond ever though? Silva and the other two were trained killers who'd probably mow down half a platoon. I don't think the security guards in the government buildings were prepared for three killers in disguise.

quote:

On the island. Could Bond not have pulled off his action bit 30 seconds earlier and saved the girl? It's not like the helicopters did bugger all to help!

Equipping Bond with hindsight would take the series into psychic territory though.

quote:

Oh, and the CGI on the lizard! and people complain about DAD! though the explosion on Tintagell, stunning!

It's Avatar compared to DAD though. That couldn't get a background screen right.

quote:

A fantastic Bond baddie, (I would love to see the out takes from the strapped to the chair homo-erotic scene! bet they are a hoot) A great opening set and all in all a darn good night out!

Yeah, agreed.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to combourg)

Post #: 136

RE: James Bond Series - 4/11/2012 5:23:14 PM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2942
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Magneto

In another dimension, Dalton would have started with A View To A Kill and ended with Goldeneye and we'd be talking about the best Bond fullstop.

This.

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(in reply to Magneto)

Post #: 137

RE: James Bond Series - 5/11/2012 8:32:06 AM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18873
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

Can someone please explain to me what Bondian means? Because I look at A View to A Kill and License to Kill and see very little that connects them. Yet they are Bondian while the new ones aren't.

Yours
Confused.

_____________________________

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Post #: 138

RE: James Bond Series - 5/11/2012 9:49:11 AM

Timon

Posts: 14541
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

Bondian clearly means "the opposite of whatever Daniel Craig does".

If Craig's Bond kills someone ruthlessly, it's not Bondian... despite other Bonds doing it.

If Craig's Bond emotes, it's not Bondian... despite other Bonds doing it.

If Craig's Bond makes a joke, but it's not as funny as a joke from the previous 20 films, it's not Bondian.

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Rgirvan44)

Post #: 139

RE: James Bond Series - 5/11/2012 3:40:49 PM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

It wasn't only the Komodo dragons that suffered from poor effects. The close-ups during the motorcycle chase in the opening were pretty awful, too. Especially in 2012.

But when you watch a movie and the effects are the only things that I can criticise, I know I've seen a great movie. It's up there with GoldenEye and Casino Royale as far as I'm concerned (those two being my favourites).

_____________________________

"It's amazing how many supposed 'plot holes' turn out to now be plot holes if you'd just pay attention", Me

(in reply to Timon)

Post #: 140

RE: James Bond Series - 5/11/2012 3:42:36 PM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

quote:

ORIGINAL: manwihtheplan

quote:

Anyway, for those that are interested, Mendes has addressed 'gun-barrell-gate' and said, it was attempted to place the gunbarrel before the pre-titles sequence, but this was not possible due to the opening shot of the film not matching up.

Which is a lame excuse. When the film was being storyboarded someone could have said "you do know if we go with that first establishing shot we can't do a gun barrel?" And some bright spark could have replied "oh yeah!, let's change the first shot so we can do a gun barrel."

It's obvious they had no intention of doing a gun barrel and the reason is clear. Barbara Broccoli wants to distance the Craig era Bond films from those of her father. Moving the gun barrel to the end or after the pre-credit scene (as was the case in Casino Royale, and the gun barrel scene was set in a toilet!) is her way of trying to put her own signature on the franchise but it's a misguided signature. The Craig Bond films do not benefit by moving the gun barrel opening. Regardless of the content of the three Craig James Bond film, the producers have failed to respect the purpose of the gun barrel. They've shown the ignorance or naivety. Then again, perhaps they're just a bit arrogant and think they can do what they like and expect fans to accept such changes.

Oh, phew! When I saw that you'd posted in this thread too, I was afraid you would be saying something insane...

_____________________________

"It's amazing how many supposed 'plot holes' turn out to now be plot holes if you'd just pay attention", Me

(in reply to manwihtheplan)

Post #: 141

RE: James Bond Series - 5/11/2012 4:08:48 PM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Can someone please explain to me what Bondian means? Because I look at A View to A Kill and License to Kill and see very little that connects them. Yet they are Bondian while the new ones aren't.

Yours
Confused.

Thing is, I think there are elements that Bond films need to have to be a 'Bond' film, and they do to a degree all conform o the formula in certain ways.

The Craig era Bond films do feel very 'Bond' to me. Casino Royale never uses the classic theme music, but the score that is used is very 'Bond', it's all strings and glamour and brass, likewise in QoS. However, the classic theme is used on more than one occasion in Skyfall, but the remaining score doesn't really have a 'Bond' feel. In the same way that Eric Serra's Goldeneye score never felt very 'Bond', other than the few times he used the theme, same with Michael Kamen's License to Kill score. I do get it when people suggest the films need to fit certain criteria to be 'Bond'. The problem is that, the people that are really picking apart the Craig era Bond movies don't seem to realise just how much they do conform to the standard traditions of the 'Bond' formula, Skyfall in particular. I remember people complaining that the lean run time and barebones nature of QoS was awful, that it needed more time to develop the plot etc. Then, I'm hearing that people feel Skyfall has too much exposition and downtime between action beats. The makers of Bond will never win over hardcore fans like we see on the boards, the types that will boycott a film because a 30 second sequence with no connection to the overall movie, is moved from the opening credits to the closing credits. As I said in the review thread, I hope the Bond producers and directors never pander to the kind of Bond fans that demand certain things in a certain way. The fact that the franchise has taken those traditional 'Bond' elements and built on them, used them in a modern way, with a degree of realism, really appeals to me and I hope it continues as it is now for many years. Any backwards steps to the Moore/Brosnan days would be a mistake. Those Bond films still exist, and I still enjoy them, but that approach to the formula has run its course.

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Post #: 142

RE: James Bond Series - 5/11/2012 4:22:23 PM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

I've said it before, but the Craig Bond's really remind me of the Connery Bond's. The action in CR and QoS used much more of a Pierce Brosnan era template (not with the gadgets, etc... just with them generally being faster-paced, and more of them), but Skyfall seemed like a pure return to Connery to me. People seem to forget that those early movies were far more gritty and realistic than pretty much everything that came after (except for License To Kill). And right up until even You Only Live Twice (by which time the series had become a lot more outlandish, but nowhere near as OTT as they'd become in the 70's), the plots were taken far more seriously with a slower pace than people are used to by modern standards. But at the same time as returning to the Connery era (with certain returning characters, sets, and of course the car), the best thing the movie does is throw a curveball that a 50 year old series shouldn't be capable of delivering... not least of which the inversion of the grand secret base finale.

The one thing that they didn't do to remind us all of the early days of the series - and which I'm glad they didn't - is revert Bond back to his rape-happy antics from that era (although, as has been pointed out, sleeping with someone who's spent her entire life sexually exploited isn't too much better, at least he didn't physically force himself on her... when she threw herself at him I'd say it's because it's the only way she knows to thank a man for kindness, though... probably should have said no).

Seriously... Bond hasn't been more Bond for 40 years (and I love the Brosnan era... minus Die Another Day).

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Post #: 143

RE: James Bond Series - 5/11/2012 8:43:27 PM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2942
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

Totally agree, Axl - in fact I was surprised how trad-Bond Skyfall actually is! The freshness comes from the direction of a top-flight director and cinematographer IMO.

< Message edited by Darth Marenghi -- 5/11/2012 8:46:08 PM >

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Post #: 144

RE: James Bond Series - 6/11/2012 12:55:20 AM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1617
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

Best Connery Bond- From Russia With Love.
Best Lazenby Bond

- On Her Majestys Secret Service.
Best Moore Bond- The Spy Who Loved Me.
Best Dalton Bond- License To Kill.
Best Brosnan Bond- The World Is Not Enough.

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Post #: 145

RE: James Bond Series - 6/11/2012 12:56:08 AM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19962
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

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Post #: 146

RE: James Bond Series - 6/11/2012 4:31:36 AM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Best Connery Bond- From Russia With Love.
Best Lazenby Bond- On Her Majestys Secret Service.
Best Moore Bond- The Spy Who Loved Me.
Best Dalton Bond- License To Kill.
Best Brosnan Bond- The World Is Not Enough.

I'd agree on the first three to be honest, but not on the second two.

License to Kill is a badly paced, with the second act grinding the film down to a halt. Watching it again on Saturday night I was prayin for it to pick up pace and finish. I used to like it as a kid, and it has a couple of good moments (the opening plane hook and... er.....) but it is just so fucking slow.

I do like The World Is Not Enough, but Goldeneye, though dated, is still Brosnan's best outing. It has some really dated effects and a terrible score, but I've caught it twice in recent weeks on Sky Movies 007 and have watched to it's conclusion on both occasions with no problem. I struggled to pay attention to TWINE after the initial meeting with Renard, it all seems to slip down hill from that moment on.

And, as you clearly missed the Craig era Bond like the not so subtle wind um merchant you are, best Craig Bond for me is now Skyfall. Great Bond flick.

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Post #: 147

RE: James Bond Series - 6/11/2012 9:54:11 AM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

I'm surprised with how much I agree with Cool Breeze here:

Best Connery Bond - From Russia With Love
Best Lazenby Bond - On Her Majesty's Secret Service (not that there was much choice there)
Best Moore Bond - The Spy Who Loved Me
Best Dalton Bond - License To Kill
Best Brosnan Bond - GoldenEye
Best Craig Bond - Still not sure whether Casino Royale or Skyfall, but both are excellent

And I don't know if it's been pointed out before, but there's only really been two ways to play Bond, and it's kind of zigzagged between the two. First Connery Bond's are taken far more seriously, when Lazenby takes over it begins to segue into the more light-hearted version which carries on through Diamonds Are Forever and reaches its zenith with the first Roger Moore movies. By the time of A View To A Kill (though thinking about it, For Your Eyes Only was far less camp than the usual Moore Bond, too), the producers decided to bring back the tone of the earlier films, which carries on throughout Dalton's tenure. And then when Brosnan takes over, it reverts back to the light-hearted version... in my opinion, Brosnan did a far better job of it than Moore as I think he's generally a much better actor, and the for the most part, the scripts a much better, but my opinion here is besides the point. This approach went too far with Die Another Day, so once again they reverted to the tone of the Connery era films. Whoever takes over from Daniel Craig I'm fairly confident will once again be a light-hearted take on the character... unless of course they take that direction with the last few Craig films, which I think would be a mistake... just as it was a mistake with Connery.

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Post #: 148

RE: James Bond Series - 6/11/2012 10:46:00 AM

jobloffski

Posts: 1836
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere

They're probably canny enough now to use the humour to misdirect and then sucker punch with something harder to keep the audience on their toes, and to increase the relaxation of the uptight Bond a little more and then reinvent again, before reaching the levels of bullshit of Diamonds are forever or Die Another Day (which still stands as a film with a opening sequence with a total sucker punch ending, gruelling opening credits (you;re not supposed to see Bond suffer like this I mean, not Madonna's song, which isn;t as bad as people say). All was set up for something different, a realtively good baddie/goodie pairing but after the opening titles it was like watching your favourite meal go rapidly cold, then rancid, then mutate into a weird creature that shit all over itself, making you feel like you would never want to eat that meal again.

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Post #: 149

RE: James Bond Series - 6/11/2012 2:53:13 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6207
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

Good analogy, Jobloffski.

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Post #: 150