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Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - SPOILERS

 
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Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - SPOILERS - 18/7/2007 11:11:53 AM   
Hobbitonlass

 

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This thread is to discuss the new book.  Please keep all discussions in here rather than the general Harry Potter thread.

< Message edited by Helen OHara -- 21/7/2007 8:47:27 PM >


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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 18/7/2007 11:19:09 AM   
Juror Number 8


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Haven't read it.  Is it any good?

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 18/7/2007 11:19:28 AM   
jonson


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Great idea. It'll have to be policed though because you can just guarantee someone will be in here ready to spoil everyone's enjoyment.  Which Mods are not bothered about the book?
I shan't take a peek in here till I've finished it anyway. I suggest everyone does the same.

quote:

Haven't read it.  Is it any good?


Not bad, They just went through their entire school year and nothing happened.
Well, apart from deciding whether to stay on or not.


< Message edited by jonson -- 18/7/2007 11:21:22 AM >


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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 18/7/2007 11:24:46 AM   
Hobbitonlass

 

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I won't be peeking either as I couldn't possibly read it in one sitting as some people can.


< Message edited by Hobbitonlass -- 18/7/2007 11:36:29 AM >


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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 18/7/2007 11:26:57 AM   
Helen OHara

 

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I liked the sixteen chapters they spent filling in their UCAS forms (except they call them BADGERs or something) before all deciding to go to East Anglia Poly instead.

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 18/7/2007 11:33:19 AM   
Hobbitonlass

 

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Okay, I'm going to lock this thread until the book is released, that way no one will get the chance to bung a whole load of spoilers in it.  I'll sticky it until it is unlocked so it doesn't get lost.

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 6:13:29 AM   
lbiu


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I have read it..........WORST. ENDING. EVER.


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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 9:03:08 AM   
Evil_Bob


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The finale was good but that epilogue was really bad.

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 9:50:08 AM   
Dragar 11(New Birth)

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gimli The Dwarf

I loved it. During the first half it meandered somewhat, but the second half had me hooked. The last 150 pages, I don't think I've ever read anything so intently. Chapter Thirty Three is probably one of the best chapters from the whole series, the only time I've ever actually been moved to tears (well, almost) by a Potter book. And I really did like the very end.



***Some Spoilery bits****



Just a bit miffed by some of the characters who didn't make it and the way in which they were dispatched. A couple seemed almost pointless ("We need an emotional moment, let's kill off a well-liked but relatively minor character") One particular character I wanted to survive didn't, and this was a huge shame, although the way the backstory unfolded regarding this person  was superb. A more fitting sendoff would have been approproiate. Still, I loved the fact that just about everyone from the Potter universe cropped up or was mentioned.


****End Spoilers****




I know this is hardly in depth or anything, but I'm not sure how spoilery we can be so early on





Man I can't beleive some of you guys have read it already. I though t as it is the last one you would want to savour it and take your time reading it.

I have never read any of the books or seen the films but Iam curious to find out how it ends.

Could someone PM me with details on who gets offed.
Post #: 9
RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 10:14:58 AM   
Evil_Bob


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From: GGGAAAHHH!!!
I think we're free to talk about it now as they had it locked until today so anybody coming in can expect spoilers.

Gimli who were you miffed about dying and who was the character you wanted to see survive?

 
SPOILERS JUST IN CASE
 
I personally didn't like the fact that they killed off both Lupin and Tonks after building up their marriage and the birth of their child. Plus we don;t actually see them die. They're just added to the body count.

I'm guessing you were talking about Snape. Yeah it was a bit shit seeing him being dispatched the way he was especially when you find out he was good all along.
I seriously don't know how people were in such denial about him being actually good from some of the exchanges that took place in the previous book.
It was way too conveniant to make him a bad guy.

< Message edited by Evil_Bob -- 21/7/2007 10:16:36 AM >


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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 10:39:33 AM   
Evil_Bob


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SPOILERS
 
No youre right about the Hedwig thing. Although it does set a precendent for the body count thats to come cause Moody follows not long after.

Snapes death was a bit pathetic though. Still doesn't wash with me at all.

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 11:06:09 AM   
Evil_Bob


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I guess the odds on Harry not knowing any of the people who died in the battle apart from Lupin and Tonks was pretty slim so Colin Creevy was as good as any.

Moody probably had to go at some stage alright.
I never considered that she would kill off Harry. Although it is pretty Matrixy that both have to die, the book series isn't dark enough to kill off its protagonist. It would have rendered all the emotional build up of the previous 6 books null and void.

I'm also glad that they didnt' go down the Voldemort capturing Ginny and using her as bait route. The end of HBP was a bit Spiderman like for me so this would have been taking the cake. I'm also glad they didn't kill her off cause in fairness....she rocks.

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 11:56:34 AM   
jimbo909


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Nice to see Royal Mail delivered Deathly Hollows at eight am this morning. Cheers! Thanks also to Play.com for not screwing up.

I haven't read any of the above posts and I wont be coming back here 'til I've finished the book. No spoilers! Ok, kids!

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 12:37:02 PM   
impqueen


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SPOILER!!!




I agree with the thoughts about Snape's death I knew it was coming though I wanted him to live, it was a bit weak I think the character deserved much better....

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 6:35:02 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54599
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Buggering damn thing logged me off when I'd typed a long reply! And no spoiler warnings for this - there obviously are some in it but if you're in this thread what do you expect?!?

3rding Remus and Tonks. It wasn't pointlessness of war, it wasn't an affecting death, it was just pointless and an insult to the readers and a poor use of the characters.

Order of Phoenix? Artificially stretching it out over the year - really poor pacing resulting from that - made them seem like they must have been sitting on their backsides twiddling their thumbs while the  3heroes went on an extended camping trip. It used to be a year because fo the school year - this was very much an artificial construct that did not work. And how many times in the book did it result in - 'and several weeks later.....'

Much of the rest? I think Rowling has been too influenced by the films - long gaps and obviously visual setpieces didn't work - the narrative is normally more coherent than that. And the Gringotts thing, eg, just didn't work for me.

Overall, the bad guys died, and most loose ends tied up (even with really terrible explanations like Dumbledore's at the end) - but, on first read, kind of unsatisfying. Some nice touches though - Molly Weasley going ballistic for one.

Errors? Why so bothered about Harry using underage magic at the Burrows because of the trace? Book 6 - pg 344. Voldemort was underage when he killed his family - yet apparently the trace didn't realise it was underage magic because it took place in the Gaunt hovel - they know magic took place but not who. For Harry they assume as he was the only one who could do magic BUT he wasn't at the Burrows.

Which then leads them into trouble as to how the murder of the Riddle's themselves wasn't caught as underage. But the explanation given on that page contradicts many of the worries at the start of the book.

Voldemort thought he was the only one to find the Room of Requirement? Are we expected to believe he was the first? Or didn't realise what the other stuff in there was?

Snape Lily's BEST friend? Not mentionable before by Lupin when just saying she was defending someone being tormented? Or when defending Snape EVER? Don't believe it. Nor do I believe Rowling actually wrote the line where Dumbledore asks what he'll give him for saving Lily.

The heavy locket affecting behaviour carried round the neck? Do we really need to say where that is stolen from?

I'll give it another go - but I think some of the deaths really felt fake and there just to say they killed people. It was a nice idea to kill Harry and him not to be dead bringing the scar credibly into it - but beyond that it just tried too hard.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 21/7/2007 8:51:02 PM >


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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 6:35:58 PM   
Keyser_Sose


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God bless Virgin Trains, being stuck in Birmingham New Street Train Station for over 5 hours really is a blessing when you have the last Harry Potter book ; )

Read it, Loved it, just disappointed with the way some of the characters died, a fitting end to a great series of books though.


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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 6:37:42 PM   
Keyser_Sose


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The 'King's Cross' chapter....Matrix Revolutions anybody?

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - SPOILERS - 21/7/2007 8:48:24 PM   
Helen OHara

 

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Just to say that I have changed the thread title to reflect spoilerific content so we can spoil to our heart's content. Ron's a killer robot! Hedwig's Snape in disguise! Woo hoo!

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 9:21:27 PM   
timomouse


Posts: 833
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gimli The Dwarf

***SPOILERS***



The thing with Snape is I'm now not sure if I wanted him to survive, or if I'd have been happy with a more fitting death. Perhaps he could have put up a struggle, or maybe he should have died in a proper showdown. I think a second read is certainly in order, but I'm not sure how I feel to be honest.



I sort of agree, in that Snape didn't get the showdown expected which meant that, later on, I had Alan Rickman's voice reading Voldemort's lines in my head.

However, it was a brilliant epilogue to his death of his memories which explained everything about why Snape disliked him, to why Snape disliked him and I find it more fitting that Harry got to see him for the tragic hero he was, rather than just thinking of him as the big bad.

However, the deaths of Tonks and Lupin were badly handled - just because everything was cold and detached, as if they were an afterthought, but I see what JK Rowling was kind of doing, in that their son has been brought up in the way that Harry could have been if he'd had caring adoptive parents.

Also, Both Lovegoods were badly treated - Luna (by far and away the most entertainign character in the series) didn't get an ending, and her dad...he just got forgotten about.

Also, I don't want to see the film of this as, well, I don't want to see Emma Watson bespoiled by having to snog Rupert "Bloody Hell, Harry" G(r)i(n)t.
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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 9:39:18 PM   
lbiu


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I am sorry but it was a very weak book.............her weakest book yet. Terrible narrative structure, crappy dialogue and the book get's tiresome to read in many chapters. I was not a fan of the shitty fucking epilogue either which seemed to forget about the whole wizarding world and tell us that Ron and Hermione and Ginny and Harry started shagging and gave their offspring some crappy names.

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 11:15:14 PM   
elab49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gimli The Dwarf

It would have been nice to hear a little bit about what hapensed to other folk after the good guys had won. We know that Neville and Hagrid are at Hogwarts, but what about all the many other characters? We should also have seen a few characters show a bit or remorse perhaps about believing Snape had been a bad guy.

It certainly isn't the weakest book though. I think that goes to book 5.




I'd probably say 4 and 6 as they tend to be the bittiest books. But it does feel rather empty.

Killing the werewolf was a copout and lending itself to the racist themes in the book - the wizarding world doesn't have to deal with a werewolf hero.

And frankly, once you get that Snape wants to die looking at Lily's eyes - in Harry's head - it is a tad icky. I didn't really get a feel for what Snape was looking to do once Dumbledore was dead and he took on as headmaster, either. The idea that Dumbledore instructed Snape to kill him was obvious - it was the only honest way out of the ending of the last book. But from that to a Potter sprog with Severus as a middle name? I think not.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 21/7/2007 11:54:54 PM   
livila


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I always knew Snape was a good guy...

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 22/7/2007 12:05:32 AM   
elab49


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Or a stalker level creep frighteningly obsessed with a woman years after her death that he helped cause? Ummmm - interesting definition of good guy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 22/7/2007 12:10:48 AM   
livila


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Or a stalker level creep frighteningly obsessed with a woman years after her death that he helped cause? Ummmm - interesting definition of good guy


Meh, *shrugs* I've always found him an atrractive character; convinced something positive lurks beneath...
I was even more convinced with the title of the last book.

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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 22/7/2007 1:12:45 AM   
thelightbringer


Posts: 103
Joined: 15/11/2005
SPOILERS   




The whole Snape thing was odd - your so conscious that he's gone out with a whimper rather than a bang - bitten by a floating snake....

The Epilogue stands out as badly as Remus Lupin among pure bloods -- is this the end chapter Rowling has had written since the beginning?

I agree that this book does seem more like the films than the other books - one of the traits of the films, is their tendency (because of time constraints) to often have the key scenes as setpieces, whilst leaving out many of the causes and consequences of those scenes.

On my first run through, I was a little dissapointed, as someone else said, it did feel a little matrixy spending so much time and dialogue on the exposition/ logistics of the contrived dynamics surrounding wands, the connection between harry and voldemort, and the nature of love.


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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 22/7/2007 9:49:26 AM   
elab49


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But I completely agree that most of the causes and consequences were gone.

Speaking of films? Didn't they change the book for Chamber (I really have to check this) so Harry got flown out by Fawkes rather than clearing the passageway back to Ron, as in the book? Which may mean the book is following the films continuity not the books! Again, Ron using the insult mental seems more from the films not the books.

I really can't get over how easily Lupin dismissed dying and leaving his son - it was so, yeh, whatever, s'all OK. Insulting.

Being Matrixy isn't a compliment - the cod psychology crap in that was its major downfall.

Another nice moment - Neville's gran.

But what I'm taking from this at the moment is that Rowling threw in visuals, had no idea how to handle them properly and is relying on the filmmakers to do the work for her.

Great idea? Everything finishing with a fight at the school. And then? You barely see it - a few rumblings and stonework falling. I seriously doubt the film will go that way.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 22/7/2007 9:54:47 AM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 22/7/2007 9:50:41 AM   
James2183


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Rather enjoyable book and one which had me gripped at certain points. The opening and closing battles were some of the best in the series and I was saddened to see Moody buy it so early. In retrospect, although I would have preferred Harry to have died it seemed a more rounded ending to have him live. Although I would agree with some others that the epilogue wasn't that great. The final line was awful.

What annoyed me most about the book though, other than the lack of emotion in killing off some of the characters (which in retrospect were not that massive when compared to previous books) I really thought the mid 100 or so pages in which the gang are pitching up in fields was rather boring and lessened my interest. Felt like JK didn't really know what to do and then just threw in palces to get clues.

Overall though it was a good book, whether or not I feel it was a fitting send off it yet to be seen, but I can't wait to see the Battle of Hogwarts on the big screen.



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RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 22/7/2007 9:58:36 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54599
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183



Overall though it was a good book, whether or not I feel it was a fitting send off it yet to be seen, but I can't wait to see the Battle of Hogwarts on the big screen.




Ah, I was editing when you wrote that. I completely agree - and therein lies the problem. We shouldn't be looking forward to a film to show us a scene in the book. The book should have made it live for us. It didn't.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 28
RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 22/7/2007 10:03:27 AM   
James2183


Posts: 10541
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Oh there is no denying it was exciting when I was reading it, I ended up not getting to bed till 3am because I was so engrossed in the battle. However, due to the nature of the story and what we have seen in the latest film I just can't wait to see if it matches what I had in my head. It is like LotR fans I would imagine who anticipated Pelanor Fields and Helms Deep. Being able to actually see what your mind has imagined. 

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Post #: 29
RE: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - 22/7/2007 11:06:28 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54599
Joined: 1/10/2005
And by the by - where exactly did Umbridge get hers?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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