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RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights

 
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RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 14/11/2006 5:42:36 PM   
Maria Noir


Posts: 2803
Joined: 1/6/2006
From: Café 5 to 2: Just follow Cheryl down Bachman Road.
Click on the quote button if you want to see the pic.

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The Empire Script Challenge: Month 19 - Look Through The Looking Glass

"And our bodies are earth. And our thoughts are clay. And we sleep and eat with death."

"- Are we going to let politics get in the way of our friendship?
- Friendship? You told people I lured children into my Gingerbread House!
- Haha. Yeah. That was just a lie."

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Post #: 61
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 7/12/2006 7:56:32 PM   
meh...


Posts: 383
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www.bridgetothestars.net

Dan Craig as Lord Asriel.

Rather dashing, no?


< Message edited by meh... -- 7/12/2006 7:58:08 PM >


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Post #: 62
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 8/12/2006 2:35:37 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
I also thought Lee Scoresby wouldn't be so old. For some reason I had Mrs Coulter pictured as a redhead although Kidman is a perfect choice to play Lyra's mother and I also think Dan Craig will do a great job as Lord Asriel even though he wasn't the first actor that sprung to mind for that role (maybe Ralph Fiennes?)

The removal of the subversive religious content is a real blow but was sadly to be expected -

*** SPOILER ***. I was really looking forward to seeing God let out of his glass box and dissipating!

(in reply to meh...)
Post #: 63
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 10/12/2006 7:02:31 PM   
BenClay2005


Posts: 175
Joined: 10/11/2005
Yeah - in relation to the Religious element of the books. Someone once told me that Philip Pullman's aim was to destroy Christianity and these books were a vehicle in the fleet towards accomplishing it.

Is that true - if it is, he must be a very bitter man. I feel sad for him!



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Post #: 64
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 13/12/2006 3:58:58 PM   
kirk

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 30/9/2005
i think they will see how the first one goes, and then decide about the religious aspect, to be fair in the first one there isnt a lot of links to christianity.

its the 2nd and especially the 3rd one they will have problems with.

but phillip pullman seems to be ok with it so im excited!

(in reply to BenClay2005)
Post #: 65
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 14/12/2006 1:49:36 PM   
mjwicks


Posts: 4837
Joined: 31/12/2005
From: Kernow, UK
I like the idea of Bond for Asriel
Dont don't know how Vesper will handle Pekkala though

Has anybody checked out the official site yet? Its got some designs and pics on there, looks like its coming along well.
The best bit is the Alethiometer to play with, although has anybody figured out how to understand what the damn thing is trying to tell you yet? haha

http://www.goldencompassmovie.com/

< Message edited by mjwicks -- 14/12/2006 1:50:29 PM >

(in reply to kirk)
Post #: 66
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 16/12/2006 11:12:19 PM   
lbiu


Posts: 2779
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Just 3 doors away from Heaven
I am not very happy with the casting,  the girl playing lyra seems alright (but not as I pictured her). I really hope they don't try and "potterize" it...HDM and Harry Potter are two totally different books and the movies should not have much in common. I am not too crazy about Nicole Kidman...Mrs Coutler was described as having a dark complexion, someone like Catherine Zeta Jones. Daniel Craig is just a little too young for my liking...but he will do. I have very low expectations for this adaption as it will probably suffer from political correctness and have all religion cut out, the violence will be tamer to get a PG and I am sure the dark undertones will be removed.

but I am still smiling

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Post #: 67
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 18/12/2006 4:23:21 PM   
Johnny Pneumonia


Posts: 434
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Where your dad works
quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk

i think they will see how the first one goes, and then decide about the religious aspect, to be fair in the first one there isnt a lot of links to christianity.


Apart from Asriel actually getting out the Bible and reading from it?  

I've no idea how they're going to pull this movie off but then no one thought LOTR could be done for decades. Pretty much everything I've seen so far has been very promising.

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Post #: 68
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 18/12/2006 8:04:44 PM   
Sundance

 

Posts: 961
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Belfast
quote:

ORIGINAL: mjwicks

Has anybody checked out the official site yet? Its got some designs and pics on there, looks like its coming along well.
The best bit is the Alethiometer to play with, although has anybody figured out how to understand what the damn thing is trying to tell you yet? haha

http://www.goldencompassmovie.com/


I've managed to unlock the (awful) conceptual art from the alethiometer. Fun.

That website is pissing me off, mainly because the narrator pronounces daemon Day-mon. Eejit. And they keep changing everyone's hair colour. Serafina is blonde, dammit.

quote:

   Iofur Raknison will be voiced by Ian McShane


They've gone and changed his name. Just in case any thick people explode with confusion because Iorek and Iofur both start with Io. It's Ragnar-something now.

< Message edited by Sundance -- 18/12/2006 8:05:44 PM >

(in reply to mjwicks)
Post #: 69
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 19/12/2006 10:40:28 AM   
boreas


Posts: 27
Joined: 15/1/2006
From: Finland
Frankly, I won't care about the casting one bit if they mess up the plot (plus, I always thought Kidman was made for the role). Religion is such an integral part of the book and its theme, and without it I fear it's gonna become a plain kids-with-talking-pets movie. 

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Post #: 70
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 29/12/2006 2:39:13 AM   
The Fauns

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 29/12/2006
"Northern Lights" was probably the best fantasy i've ever read...

It's sequel "The Subtle Knife" was mediocre at best and the final book "The Amber Spyglass" was truly, completely and utterly awful in every way. Pullman lost his way and i felt truly cheated of the incredible universe he created in the first of the three books.

You have a lot of gushing praise for these books on this forum but i'm sure i'm not the only person to notice these clumsy sequels, so how about those involved in filming the trilogy?

This story needs serious editing for it to succeed as a trilogy of movies... No doubt that the first film will be brilliant because of the source material, the second and third installments if translated directly will be embarassing...

Who's with me?

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Post #: 71
- 10/1/2007 11:44:31 AM   
adelooney66

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 28/2/2006
Everything I've seen so far has been very promising,Nicole Kidman is a great
choice for mrs Coulter , not to sure about Daniel Craig as Lord Asriel though.

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Post #: 72
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 10/1/2007 9:55:35 PM   
Johnny Pneumonia


Posts: 434
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Where your dad works
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Fauns

"Northern Lights" was probably the best fantasy i've ever read...

It's sequel "The Subtle Knife" was mediocre at best and the final book "The Amber Spyglass" was truly, completely and utterly awful in every way. Pullman lost his way and i felt truly cheated of the incredible universe he created in the first of the three books.

You have a lot of gushing praise for these books on this forum but i'm sure i'm not the only person to notice these clumsy sequels, so how about those involved in filming the trilogy?

This story needs serious editing for it to succeed as a trilogy of movies... No doubt that the first film will be brilliant because of the source material, the second and third installments if translated directly will be embarassing...

Who's with me?


Um, not me. That post is possibly more annoying than the goons that somehow thought that Fellowship and and ROTK were great but Two Towers for some reason was crap. HDM, similarly, is one unit, I dont know how its possible to like one of the books and not the others - I'll agree that Northern Lights is the best, and the worst criticism that you level at the Amber Spyglass is that it possibly throws too much into the mix, but the story as a whole is spectacular, all the great concepts of the first book are fully honoured and developed. It just seems really strange to me.

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Post #: 73
RE: RE: - 11/1/2007 9:48:54 AM   
jediwarrior


Posts: 20016
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: At home eating twiglets
I am currently reading Northern Lights. I am about half way. Its a great book and can't wait to read the other two. I look forward to seeing this in the cinemas.

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RE: - 13/1/2007 7:19:13 PM   
Hissyfit


Posts: 18
Joined: 24/9/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: adelooney66

Everything I've seen so far has been very promising,Nicole Kidman is a great
choice for mrs Coulter , not to sure about Daniel Craig as Lord Asriel though.


I would have preferred Eric Bana.

(in reply to adelooney66)
Post #: 75
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 15/1/2007 10:49:25 AM   
Maria Noir


Posts: 2803
Joined: 1/6/2006
From: Café 5 to 2: Just follow Cheryl down Bachman Road.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundance

quote:

   Iofur Raknison will be voiced by Ian McShane


They've gone and changed his name. Just in case any thick people explode with confusion because Iorek and Iofur both start with Io. It's Ragnar-something now.


Aww bloody hell. I'm going to say this now - this film will be bad.

_____________________________

The Empire Script Challenge: Month 19 - Look Through The Looking Glass

"And our bodies are earth. And our thoughts are clay. And we sleep and eat with death."

"- Are we going to let politics get in the way of our friendship?
- Friendship? You told people I lured children into my Gingerbread House!
- Haha. Yeah. That was just a lie."

(in reply to Sundance)
Post #: 76
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 16/1/2007 10:32:54 AM   
The Fauns

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 29/12/2006
Hehe... I loved all three LOTR books and films, they were consistently brilliant. I'm not a goon. I just don't feel that Pullman's trilogy held it together. For the following reasons...

1) The strong and well formed character of Lyra eventually playing nothing more than sidekick to Will... It's sadly predictable that the male character took over...

2) Clumsy links between Lyra & Will and Adam & Eve. I'm an atheist for starters so perhaps that colours my view. I loved the dust vs Christianity story of the first book, by the end i was just confused and by that i mean bored, i mean... is this trilogy anti or pro religion? If i want to read about Christianity i'll pick up a bible.

3) Gay angels... so what. Why are the angels gay? Why not Lee Scoresby? Why not Iorek Byrnison... Is it because they have wings?

4) Wheeled aliens... with trunks... riding on seed pods... on naturally formed roads... killer swans... i'm sorry but this is just hilarious. Stan Winston is going to have a tough time making these creatures not look totally stupid.

5) Mary Malone... the passage about her experience of turkish delight made me want to vomit. It added nothing to the story. Actually this limp character added nothing to the story.

6) Dialogue... Generally felt rushed toward the end of the trilogy, some of it was just plain bad English.

7) Setting parts of the story in Oxford as we know it. This was like being rudely shaken out of a dream... This was totally unecessary.

8) Yes... There was too much thrown into the mix by the end. The first book was a perfect mix, with enough quiet to allow the readers imagination to take over. The final book was a tangle of dull and pointless storylines and characters.

I could go on... I'm not trying to persuade those who loved the trilogy otherwise... You enjoyed them and good for you. But surely i'm not the only one to notice the vast difference in quality between the first and last books in the trilogy?

(in reply to Johnny Pneumonia)
Post #: 77
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 16/1/2007 1:08:14 PM   
Maria Noir


Posts: 2803
Joined: 1/6/2006
From: Café 5 to 2: Just follow Cheryl down Bachman Road.
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Fauns

Hehe... I loved all three LOTR books and films, they were consistently brilliant. I'm not a goon. I just don't feel that Pullman's trilogy held it together. For the following reasons...

1) The strong and well formed character of Lyra eventually playing nothing more than sidekick to Will... It's sadly predictable that the male character took over...

2) Clumsy links between Lyra & Will and Adam & Eve. I'm an atheist for starters so perhaps that colours my view. I loved the dust vs Christianity story of the first book, by the end i was just confused and by that i mean bored, i mean... is this trilogy anti or pro religion? If i want to read about Christianity i'll pick up a bible.


I agree with those two points. The third part was quite bloated and lacked direction. My favourite is actually The Subtle Knife. That's just purely on personal preference though, so I'm not saying it was better written than Northern Lights.

I think the conclusion is that "Dust" and Christianity are inter-linked. Christianity was inspired by a "God" who was created from "Dust" i.e. the first being to ever become conscious. However since all beings are composed of "Dust", "God" was not really a god, merely a clever bugger who took credit for creation. "Dust" (or "Dark Matter") began to feature in logical thought such as physics, whilst it was omitted from religion for being blasphemous. In the same way, supernatural beings such as angels were supported by Christianity and discarded as ficticious by science. I think that both religion in general and science are presented as an explanation for the whole phenomenon of creation and the consciousness of human thought. Science focuses on the concrete and the physical, while religion is abstract and metaphysical, so that perhaps one has to believe a little in both in order to obtain some truthful perception of humanity. That may be alot of philosophical bull plop but that was the conclusion I drew from the trilogy. 

quote:

3) Gay angels... so what. Why are the angels gay? Why not Lee Scoresby? Why not Iorek Byrnison... Is it because they have wings?


I think that Pullman wanted to turn the dogmatic conception of angels on its head, as angels are usually depicted as asexual and emotionally distant, unlike Baruch and Balthamos.

quote:

5) Mary Malone... the passage about her experience of turkish delight made me want to vomit. It added nothing to the story. Actually this limp character added nothing to the story.


Sorry to be a nerd, but it was marzipan not turkish delight. The account was basically her first experience of "becoming conscious" and being aware of the opposite sex for the first time. In this way she acts as "the serpent" to Will and Lyra's "Adam and Eve" in demonstrating that mutual sexual attraction is a positive thing that should not be restricted as it's a fundamental human experience. It also shows where religion and science overlap and diverge with reference to puberty and sex i.e. Christianity encourages sexual repression, implying that "sexual consciousness" gave way to "Original Sin" and science states that it's a normal human impulse. 


quote:

7) Setting parts of the story in Oxford as we know it. This was like being rudely shaken out of a dream... This was totally unecessary.


There had to be similarities between Lyra's and Will's world, or else the whole concept of cutting a hole in another world so that one would end up in the same place geographically in another could not work. For example if there were no similarities, the characters could not calculate where to cut a hole in Cittŕgazze in order to pass through Sir Charles' study to retrieve the alethiometer.





< Message edited by Maria Noir -- 16/1/2007 1:09:23 PM >


_____________________________

The Empire Script Challenge: Month 19 - Look Through The Looking Glass

"And our bodies are earth. And our thoughts are clay. And we sleep and eat with death."

"- Are we going to let politics get in the way of our friendship?
- Friendship? You told people I lured children into my Gingerbread House!
- Haha. Yeah. That was just a lie."

(in reply to The Fauns)
Post #: 78
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 18/1/2007 12:29:50 AM   
The Fauns

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 29/12/2006
Thank you Maria Noir

For an intelligent response rather than a typical forum fanboy "i hate you" response. I'm glad that there is someone who has some analytical skills and also happens to agree with me on at least a couple of points.

Analysis aside... I'm interested to hear what you think as far as... OK, the first and second books will probably get away with a cinematic conversion. But the third, with it's triangular elephants on wheels, marzipan, god in a box and gay angels... Can you really see this working? Hehe...

I'm calling for an major edit on book three... Sorry fanboys :)



(in reply to Maria Noir)
Post #: 79
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 18/1/2007 1:02:51 PM   
Sundance

 

Posts: 961
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Belfast
Spoilerful for the second and third books...

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Fauns

1) The strong and well formed character of Lyra eventually playing nothing more than sidekick to Will... It's sadly predictable that the male character took over...


I'm with you there. Lyra is an amazing character, and it was annoying that at times she became so whiny and helpless around Will. I raised an eyebrow in TSK when she started to cook for him. And I'm not a huge fan of Will, he doesn't have the charm of Lyra yet the story started to focus on him more. I grew to like him more as the story went on, but I was still unhappy at the relegation of Lyra to supporting character.

quote:

4) Wheeled aliens... with trunks... riding on seed pods... on naturally formed roads... killer swans... i'm sorry but this is just hilarious. Stan Winston is going to have a tough time making these creatures not look totally stupid.


The Mulefa aren't really aliens. But yes, they are ridiculous. And Mary is just dull. I thoroughly dislike those chapters. I think the Mulefa were cut out of the stage play, that's one thing I wouldn't mind the film getting rid of.

quote:

6) Dialogue... Generally felt rushed toward the end of the trilogy, some of it was just plain bad English.


I do have to agree there. I think Pullman is an incredible writer, but some of the dialogue between Lyra and Will wouldn't have looked out of place in a 95p romantic novel from Tesco. And it really stuck out, because usually the character's voices were very real, especially Lyra. I know the two of them had grown up a lot, but it was still a bit cheesy. Plus Pullman got a bit confused it seems towards the end. No one from Will's world is able to see his daemon for some reason, yet Mary can, and they were all able to see John Parry's daemon who just appeared when he came into Lyra's world, she didn't have to be seperated from him like Kirjava was from Will. That's all a bit confusing.

I love these books, but they're not above criticism. But I don't think any book is, and the problems I have with HDM don't stop me from thinking it's a great trilogy of books. Spyglass was the weakest and Northern Lights was the strongest imo.

If it is true that they're going to try and keep obvious references to religion out of the books then Spyglass will need a heavy edit anyway. Maybe they'll leave god out of the while thing and only concentrate on Metatron. I am hoping that they'll leave out the mulefa simply to save time, because the book is quite long anyway. I think in the play one of the witches made the Spyglass, so maybe they could do that. I think Spyglass will be the most difficult to transfer to the big screen, and it can be done, but I think there will be a lot cut out.

< Message edited by Sundance -- 18/1/2007 1:09:48 PM >

(in reply to The Fauns)
Post #: 80
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 18/1/2007 3:55:49 PM   
Maria Noir


Posts: 2803
Joined: 1/6/2006
From: Café 5 to 2: Just follow Cheryl down Bachman Road.
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Fauns

Thank you Maria Noir

For an intelligent response rather than a typical forum fanboy "i hate you" response. I'm glad that there is someone who has some analytical skills and also happens to agree with me on at least a couple of points.


Your welcome. It's good to have a debate on forum with someone who doesn't take a discussion about a book as a personal attack.

quote:


Analysis aside... I'm interested to hear what you think as far as... OK, the first and second books will probably get away with a cinematic conversion. But the third, with it's triangular elephants on wheels, marzipan, god in a box and gay angels... Can you really see this working? Hehe...

I'm calling for an major edit on book three... Sorry fanboys :)


I think Northern Lights will be the only book that has the potential to be made into a good film. I think that the momentum will be lost with The Subtle Knife and some serious editing will have to be done to adapt The Amber Spyglass.

Pullman barely managed make The Mulefa and even the character of Mary Malone credible in the books. Malone was only present to act as the third character of Pullman's "Adam and Eve" comparison at the end of the third book and to provide a comparison to "Dust" i.e. ("Dark Matter") in our world. The Mulefa would look clumsy and downright silly on the screen (if they follow the book's description), which will probably cause more laughter than awe to be honest, so yes they should be cut.

I agree with Sundance in that I'm really fond of these books, but they're not without flaws. With a concept so vast and controversial, no book would be perfect. However I think that turning His Dark Materials into a film is a mistake, but then again I could be wrong.






_____________________________

The Empire Script Challenge: Month 19 - Look Through The Looking Glass

"And our bodies are earth. And our thoughts are clay. And we sleep and eat with death."

"- Are we going to let politics get in the way of our friendship?
- Friendship? You told people I lured children into my Gingerbread House!
- Haha. Yeah. That was just a lie."

(in reply to The Fauns)
Post #: 81
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 19/1/2007 6:53:03 PM   
Johnny Pneumonia


Posts: 434
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Where your dad works
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Fauns

Thank you Maria Noir

For an intelligent response rather than a typical forum fanboy "i hate you" response. I'm glad that there is someone who has some analytical skills and also happens to agree with me on at least a couple of points.

Analysis aside... I'm interested to hear what you think as far as... OK, the first and second books will probably get away with a cinematic conversion. But the third, with it's triangular elephants on wheels, marzipan, god in a box and gay angels... Can you really see this working? Hehe...

I'm calling for an major edit on book three... Sorry fanboys :)





Hey, hope that wasn't referring to me! I just honestly don't agree with you. I don't consider myself a 'fanboy' in the way it's implied just because I think all three books are ace - like I said before, Amber Spyglass does have faults due to the too-many-cooks aspects of it, and the first time I read it I was bewildered by the whole Mary Malone plotline not to mention crazy shit like the intention craft. That film in particular would need a pretty hefty overhaul to work as a screenplay, but as long as the ideas remained intact it would still work just fine. Anyway, to raise my post a little way above just being a 'I'm right, you suck' kind of thing...

I disagree with you on a few of your points - the narrative authority has to shift because of Will, I don't think he dominates over Lyra except when it's to develop both their characters. And I don't see your problem over the 'gay' angels, I think Maria's completely right about Pullman subverting our understanding over what history says these beings are and what they're capable of.

Reading the book for the second time recently, I wasn't as bored as I feared I might be by the Mary scenes, without sounding like too much of a pretentious cock it all seems to be getting towards the point of taking pleasure in the physicality of life rather than abandoning it for hollow religions and spiritual pursuits. Which might not work so well on film...

And although I was a bit distanced from the story at first when it moved into our world, I think it's a good move that the actual plot truly connects with our reality as it forces the reader to consider the ideas of the novel in their own life rather than just leaving it when you shut the book.

I've got big reservations about the films but then I think of how successful the stage play was, and I had no idea how that could've worked. So hopefully it'll work out alright.

Blah blah, I hate you, HDM is my wet dream, etc etc.



_____________________________

'Kate Winslet there...talking dirty...to, uh, Anne Frank and Joseph Goebbels...'

(in reply to The Fauns)
Post #: 82
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 23/1/2007 10:25:37 PM   
meh...


Posts: 383
Joined: 30/9/2005
Set report over on http://www.bridgetothestars.net/!!!!

I ccan not be any more excited for this film! There's also one over at Rottentomatoes, but it is much less detailed (though they say they'll be adding more stuff).

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Post #: 83
RE: RE: - 1/2/2007 7:48:36 PM   
Nehima Six66


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/8/2006
From: UK


quote:

*COUGH**SPLUTTER*BLECH*, er no, I'm certainly questioning [that HDM is better than Harry Potter]!!!!  They were ok, hugely over-rated tho...

The whole thing is just an attack on religion.  I'm not making any judgement on that, but to take the religion out of the films, what exactly is it they are making?!?!  There's nothing left (and it wasn't great to start with!)...


Not an attack on religion, an attack on old testament God. I'm hearing a lot of scary and misinformed things here, so I just pulled one out... I'm worried about this adaptation more than I'm worried about 28 Weeks Later, more than I'm worried that the always destructive 'they' might get hold of the thankfully elusive Dark Tower Cycle (Stephen King's holding on to that one for himself, methinks). These are the most emotive books on my pitiful student's shelf and God needs to stay in them because any modern Christian can see that they are not attacking a deity that it is sane for any sensible, sensitive human being to associate themselves with. Fuck the American bible audience; someone said this needs to be a film that *feels* British and it does. Is Nicole Kidmann as Mrs Coulter a good idea? I don't know, but Daniel Craig is not Lord Asriel (though he does seem to have a good beard). I will, however, allow him to be because Casino Royale was soo good and because Eva Green is going to make such an amazing white witch. Sam Elliot IS Lee Scoresby and Ian Mcshane can be whoever the fuck he wants, he's that good in Deadwood. As for Lyra: born in 1994 tells me they know this is gonna take a fair few years...

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Post #: 84
RE: RE: - 26/2/2007 10:06:16 PM   
King_Wah


Posts: 2348
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: Halesowen
All I want to say at the minute is the casting looks good to me. Craig has the right machismo and arrogance for Asriel, Elliot is great as Soresby and I ink Kidman is absolutely perfect as Mrs. Coulter

 Is the name Coulter an accident or is she named after the right wing fruitcake Ann ?

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Post #: 85
RE: RE: - 27/2/2007 11:17:21 PM   
travel_crazy


Posts: 198
Joined: 3/1/2006
Getting really excited about this movie now. Just really hope it does the books justice...

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Scott Pilgrim vs. The World (6/10)
Inception (10/10)
Shutter Island (8/10)
An American Werewolf in London (8/10)
District 9 (9/10)

(in reply to King_Wah)
Post #: 86
RE: RE: - 28/2/2007 9:11:34 PM   
dr_finklestein


Posts: 613
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: None of your business.
To me the attack on god is no metaphore. I think god was specifically place in the books because in the history of civilised world there has never been a greater (dare i say it) villian. I use "villian" only as a device to give the characters something to oppose.

(in reply to Nehima Six66)
Post #: 87
RE: His Dark Materials Northern Lights - 1/3/2007 3:47:23 PM   
blackadder89


Posts: 12
Joined: 2/5/2006
quote:

Maria Noir

I think the conclusion is that "Dust" and Christianity are inter-linked. Christianity was inspired by a "God" who was created from "Dust" i.e. the first being to ever become conscious. However since all beings are composed of "Dust"


Yes, Dust and Christianity are interlinked in the book, but only by the fact that Pullman seems to draw parallels between Dust, human consciousness, and Original Sin. After our "Adam and Eve" have their little spell of mutual sexual attraction, they are inebriated in Dust. Just after Eve eats the apple of temptation, all humans are subject to Original Sin.
What Pullman's doing is inferring, and not very subtely, that human consciousness, human nature and what the Church calls "Original Sin" are the same thing.
He's saying that our urges to have sex and other things that the Church alledgedly defines as "Sinful" are just part of human nature, and not wrong at all...

quote:

 Christianity encourages sexual repression 


As with my suggestion above, Christianity, or at least the Catholic Church, does not in fact "encourage sexual repression". In fact, sex is deemed the most sacred act that any human can partake in, since it creates human life, and therefore a soul. It is for this reason that Churches have many rules on sexual conduct, but do not, as accused, promote sexual repression.

Basically, Pullman is your typical Aetheist-come-Agnostic. They preach and preach, condemning the Church and other religions, basing their arguments solely on the way religion is portrayed and reported on by the media, not by properly researching it.

"The Church says that sex is sinful!!!" - It's what he's saying. It's a shame that he couldn't be more wrong....

And by the way, I loved all three of these books, it's just that I think they're poorly researched from a thematic aspect...The rest is good, he's a brilliant writer.

_____________________________

"Fear not, for I am watchful"

(in reply to Maria Noir)
Post #: 88
RE: RE: - 12/4/2007 9:59:51 AM   
Beno


Posts: 8131
Joined: 15/2/2007
From: Sheffield
Anyone heard word on a first trailer , cant be long surely.

_____________________________

"The one about the space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedalbin. His Father's a robot and he's fucking fucked his Sister. Lego ... They're all made of fucking Lego!!"

(in reply to Base)
Post #: 89
RE: RE: - 5/5/2007 11:16:45 AM   
KennyM


Posts: 2816
Joined: 7/4/2006
*bumped*

(in reply to Beno)
Post #: 90
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