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RE: Bioshock Infinite

 
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RE: Bioshock Infinite - 25/3/2013 5:30:10 PM   
clownfoot


Posts: 7919
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: The ickle town of Fuck, Austria

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulyboy

I'll pick this up when I've polished off the backlog of games I have stacking up, I'm not rushing out to buy it though. Bioshock, whilst very enjoyable, never seemed to click with me the way it did for others, always wondered what the fuss was about truth be told.



I think it might be because too many people brought into the setting. Yes, Rapture is a marvellous environment, but it doesn't mean the derivative nature of some parts of Bioshock just disappear. Nor does it make up for the concept of the choice you make regarding the little sisters having no affect on gameplay other than in consideration of the ending you might get. So, a good shooter, but nowhere near a peerless classic.

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Post #: 391
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 25/3/2013 8:24:40 PM   
target


Posts: 2124
Joined: 11/4/2006
From: 1 2 3 Fake St
A really good review here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jchIi-vR_js&feature=player_embedded

I cant wait to play it now. I wish I booked a few days of work though.

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Post #: 392
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 26/3/2013 12:00:03 AM   
rich


Posts: 5053
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
Pretty much the only game I've really been looking forward to lately

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Post #: 393
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 26/3/2013 1:44:57 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9142
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
Got this waiting for me for when i get home from work today. I cannot wait!

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Post #: 394
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 27/3/2013 11:51:52 AM   
MBeard


Posts: 1559
Joined: 10/8/2007
Bought this on my way home from work last night, managed to get about an hour in before Coronation Street ruined that party.

I explored alot so didn't progress too much, I was enjoying seeing the size of the world and the way they treat that Cornstock guy as a god.

Not even met Elizabeth yet so looking forward to my bank holiday weekend to spend a few hours going through and hopefully completing it.

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Post #: 395
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 27/3/2013 12:55:58 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
I played the first three hours (though with a lot of exploring... especially in the opening scenes, so probably considerably less than a lot of people's first three hours), and all I can say at the moment is wow! What a fantastic game! So far, I'm enjoying it a lot more than the original BioShock (which I adore). It's a game that's both the most beautiful game I've ever seen (the scenery, Elizabeth's reactions to seeing things for the first time, etc. ), and one of the most ugly (the racism of the citizens of Columbia, obviously). There's a lot to be said that in this day and age, a game studio is willing to take people to some extremely uncomfortable places that most would be too frightened would put people off of the game.

Even though it's entirely scripted, the first encounter with Songbird is an epic setpiece worthy of any huge action movie. I can't wait to get home so I can play it some more. Love it!

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Post #: 396
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 27/3/2013 5:59:01 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8061
Joined: 30/9/2005
Just started, and it opens with Scott Joplin's Solace (which is used in The Sting film fans).

5 seconds in, and it's already cranking up the fucking awesomeathon.

< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 27/3/2013 6:03:25 PM >


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Post #: 397
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 27/3/2013 6:09:42 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8061
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Playing the bells now, fucking A and we're off.

I love Bioshock.

< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 27/3/2013 6:11:51 PM >


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Post #: 398
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 28/3/2013 1:39:26 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9142
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
Agreed this is good. I haven't been blown away yet but it's all very solid. The design of the world is amazing, even if the graphics aren't the most impressive. The game engine is really starting to look old. Am very interested to see where the story goes and how it all develops.

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Post #: 399
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 28/3/2013 3:14:28 PM   
Crpwned

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 18/5/2012
The graphics aren't the most impressive? Are we playing a different game? :p
This is absolutely stunning, the game world is truly jaw-dropping at some points. Don't confuse a different art style with bad graphics, it's meant to be stylised and not photo-realistic :)
Just picked this up for the PC yesterday, playing at max settings, and so far i have nothing but praise for this, here's hoping the story lives up to the amount of hype that's been assosciated with it!

< Message edited by Crpwned -- 28/3/2013 3:38:01 PM >

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Post #: 400
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 28/3/2013 4:23:42 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
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From: Great Britain
Yeah... there's no way anyone can claim that the graphics "aren't the best". I haven't even got the graphics on the highest setting, and it often looks like I'm playing an animated movie. Especially Elizabeth, who looks like she belongs in a Disney movie (I believe that's deliberate). It's one of the most stunning games I've ever seen, and narratively it's even better. The skylines are a lot of fun, too.

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Post #: 401
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 30/3/2013 6:45:02 PM   
target


Posts: 2124
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From: 1 2 3 Fake St
I'm really enjoying this. but it seems really difficult to me. I'm only playing on normal and die over and over again in some battles. It doesn't feel like Im playing it properly.

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Post #: 402
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 31/3/2013 7:23:52 AM   
Bumfluff

 

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From: 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
How could anyone have doubted this?

Quite simply one of the best games I have ever played. Yes, THAT good.
Stunning to look at, a joy to play, wonderfully scripted & with an ending that'll blow your fucking mind.

Finished it Yesterday & I'm still dizzy now!

Enjoy everyone, they don't make them like this very often.

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Post #: 403
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 31/3/2013 11:51:14 AM   
MBeard


Posts: 1559
Joined: 10/8/2007
I'm shocked by the size of the campaign. I think playing games like Halo 4 and such has made me forget about a good lengthy campaign.

I honestly thought I'd be finished by now and I can't even sense the story is coming to an end - I'm still being introduced to new bad guys and chasing more and more people.

I've just finished in the Good Time Club and still not sure where this could go - but I'm so engrossed that I'm desperate to know.

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Post #: 404
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 31/3/2013 8:21:44 PM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3092
Joined: 30/9/2005
Wow! Just wow! Literally finished this a few minutes ago after giving it a good few hours each day since getting it. It's truly a great single player campaign. I say that a lot about the original Bioshock but this feels four or five times as long! I was under the impression that despite this being made again by the same development team as the first there was a multiplayer but nope, checked the box and everything. No multiplayer. Brilliant! One of the most annoying thinsg in games is when they put less time on the single player game just to knock up a half-arsed multiplayer mode to attract the COD fans and make a fast buck on equally hastily put together DLC. as awesome as the new Tomb raider was, even they produced a game with a generic and pointless multiplayer mode. But not this bad boy! Nope. 2K have created one of the most compelling and engrossing single player experiences I've ever had the pleasure to lose myself in. I kept thinking to myself, this has got to be ending soon but it just kept going. And now that it's over I'm both, equal parts, melancholy that the journey is over and buzzing with my mind going over and over what i have just seen, heard and interacted with. This is truly something special!

Oh and madness must be plaguing the poor fool who said the graphics on this aren't great. It's a beautiful game! And i echo what someone else said about Elizabeth being straight out of a Disney animation. Immediately I thought of Belle from Beauty and the Beast. The way she moves and interacts with the environment are superb, I've never seen anything like it before in a game.

< Message edited by Vadersville -- 31/3/2013 10:01:37 PM >


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Post #: 405
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 31/3/2013 11:04:38 PM   
Peter Griffin


Posts: 2885
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bumfluff

How could anyone have doubted this?

Quite simply one of the best games I have ever played. Yes, THAT good.
Stunning to look at, a joy to play, wonderfully scripted & with an ending that'll blow your fucking mind.

Finished it Yesterday & I'm still dizzy now!

Enjoy everyone, they don't make them like this very often.

I was quite happy waiting for this until i read that, thanks dude

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Post #: 406
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 1/4/2013 1:18:17 PM   
Bumfluff

 

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Sorry!...really can't praise it enough.

I'm not helping am I?

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Post #: 407
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 1/4/2013 5:44:14 PM   
MBeard


Posts: 1559
Joined: 10/8/2007
H.O.L.Y shit.

Just finished this and I actually can't put into words my thought.

By far and wide one of the best campaigns I've played in years. I can't wait to go back through it and digest everything I now know.

Play this game.

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Post #: 408
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 1/4/2013 8:58:00 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
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From: Enemies of Film HQ
Oh shut the fuck up the lot of you, I won't be able to play it till next August.

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Post #: 409
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 1/4/2013 10:23:00 PM   
talpacino


Posts: 3685
Joined: 15/11/2005
From: The Royal County
Yeah it's pretty great.

Finished it this evening after 3 good long days of playing it. I haven't gotten into a game in a long time so it was going to take something special. The game world is amazing, easily up there with the first game for me. The one thing it has over the first is that it feels more alive but then it loses out on the eeriness of the first apart from a few bits towards the end (head on the wheelchair, air horn head dude).

Gameplay is perfect, very satisfying stringing together different vigor combos along with your normal weapons and the aerial gameplay is great too.

Elizabeth... Yeah I'm in love with her.

Very satisfying ending, quite brave for a big action game and it gave me shivers in parts, far better than the naff boss ending of the first. It's bound to piss some people off but I thought it was great.

So yeah...Great game. I'd hate to have to wait a few months to play it...



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Post #: 410
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 2/4/2013 10:09:34 AM   
MBeard


Posts: 1559
Joined: 10/8/2007
Any else love the nod to the original where you ended up in Rapture with Elizabeth? I was like "woooooaaaaaahhhhhhh"!

Spoilers covered

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Post #: 411
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 2/4/2013 1:07:21 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9142
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Yeah... there's no way anyone can claim that the graphics "aren't the best". I haven't even got the graphics on the highest setting, and it often looks like I'm playing an animated movie. Especially Elizabeth, who looks like she belongs in a Disney movie (I believe that's deliberate). It's one of the most stunning games I've ever seen, and narratively it's even better. The skylines are a lot of fun, too.


Sorry i should have said in my previous post, i'm playing this on the Xbox 360, hence my comment about the graphics.

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Post #: 412
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 3/4/2013 8:10:43 AM   
From_Hell


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From: The foot of the MegaTree
I watched a mate playing this for about an hour last night on the Xbox 360 and I thought the visuals were bloody wonderful. If the graphics on the 360 pale in comparison to those on a high-end PC then they must be very very special.

I was always going to get Bioshock Infinite, but after seeing it last night and being very impressed, I've just ordered it

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Post #: 413
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 3/4/2013 2:03:07 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9142
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
I'm underwhelmed by the graphics on the 360, but i guess it's just me. I kind of am left underwhelmed by most graphics on the 360 these days anyway. Played a bit more, still enjoying it. It certainly hasn't grabbed me like the first game did, but it's fun to play and diverting enough.

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RE: Bioshock Infinite - 4/4/2013 1:47:14 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9142
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
Last night i got to the part where

*****SPOILERS****

You go to the cemetery to get the fingerprint from the mother's body. Not sure how close/ far this is from the end, it's really difficult to tell.

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RE: Bioshock Infinite - 5/4/2013 8:02:49 AM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
First, I've just got to say... wow! I don't remember a time when I've literally loved every single second of playing a videogame. The storyline (both the main one, and the ones that are told via Voxophone and Kinetoscope), the world, the characters and the concept had me captivated from the start. I especially love how at around the halfway point, the entire story is turned on its head and you never quite know what to expect from then on. I love things like that. I think a lot of people thought that the story was going to be about the political side of things... either that or they just don't appreciate a good headfuck science fiction story.

SPOILERS ABOUT THE ENDING FOLLOW IN WHITE
It seems that the "official" view on the ending on the BioShock Wikia is that by drowning Booker, the various Elizabeth's from different realities prevented the events of the game from happening, and as it's implied that Ryan and Jack from the original game are also alternate versions of Booker/Comstock, by extension this must mean the events of the entire franchise never happened. If true, then it's certainly an imaginitive way of bringing an end to your franchise, even if none of your actions in two (or three, depending on if you count BioShock 2) matter in the end. Which in a way could be what they're saying... 'It's just a game. None of it happened!'
 
But my theory about the ending could perhaps be even more depressing. Booker and Elizabeth were doomed to fail from the start. The Elizabeth's drowning Booker didn't prevent Comstock from ever existing at all. It created him. The drowning was his "baptism" in which he was literally "born again" by being transported back in time. It wasn't just alternate realities that appeared in this game, after all... Elizabeth was able to open tears to different times and places (you can go from the clouds, to Paris, to the bottom of the sea all in different years). In this case Elizabeth was the Angel Columbia (the statue on Monument Island looked a hell of a lot like her, didn't it). You never see if Anna is in her crib in the very last scene of the game... could it be that he finds she isn't there, and realises that the only way he's ever going to see his daughter again is if he becomes Comstock, tracks down Rosalind Lutece and sets the wheels into motion? It would explain why Comstock (as delusional as he may seem) is actually right about every one of his "prophecies". Why Cornelius Slate doesn't remember Comstock but does remember Booker. And it provides an alternate explanation for why Comstock looks so much older than he claims to be. And think about it... why would drowning an alternate version of the man prevent him from ever existing?
 
It's pretty depressing that he literally turned himself into a villain in order to see Anna again, knowing that she's going to hate him for it, and at some point his past self is going to turn up and smash his head open. But he must have thought it was worth it. It's also pretty depressing that if my theory is correct, this is an indefinite time loop that was created by the Lutece's intervention in order to stop it. The only thing they may have managed to prevent was Elizabeth's destruction of New York... but even that's debatable.

< Message edited by AxlReznor -- 5/4/2013 8:34:45 AM >

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RE: Bioshock Infinite - 5/4/2013 11:19:37 AM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
And something that I wrote for my blog (which is just something no one really reads that I just post on whenever there's something I feel like talking about... not something to be taken seriously). Now that I've finished the game and had time to digest it, I feel I can speak about it more...

I had this game on release day, and finished it yesterday. Was holding off on writing anything about it until I'd finished it.



Back in 2007, the original BioShock was released, which at its core was the usual First Person Shooter. You're stuck in a crumbling underwater city and have to fight the deranged survivors of a civil war in order to escape. What made BioShock different from other shooters, though, was the backstory of this city. The city of Rapture is was created by a character named Andrew Ryan, who imagined the city as an Objectivist utopia (similar to Galt's Gulch from Ayn Rand's 'Atlas Shrugged'). Through voice recordings (the collection of which is entirely optional), you piece together how things don't go to plan, as different factions begin to vye for power. Ultimately, Ryan became everything he hated by being forced to implement the restrictions he created Rapture to escape from. There was also a science fiction element, involving the discovery of substances that can grant supernatural powers, and a huge plot twist around two thirds of the way into the game, but it was the picking apart of Objectivist theory in a game that would usually just be about aiming and shooting at things that set it apart. You don't have to learn about the history of Rapture... you can just play it as a shooter, but you get the most out of it if you delve deep.

Last Tuesday brought the long-awaited follow-up to that original game (BioShock 2 was produced by a different company, and whilst fun to play, doesn't really count). And with it came what I hope is the moment that videogames are taken seriously for their potential as a storytelling device. BioShock Infinite draws on not only political ideas (which I will go into soon), but also alternate versions of fairly recent history in order to tell one of the best stories I've seen in any medium.


Instead of the silent protagonist you play as in the original game, you are Booker DeWitt... a fully fleshed-out character complete with dialogue, and a troubled past. You're not going to like DeWitt right away... he's a veteran soldier who took part in the Battle Of Wounded Knee - the final battle of the American Indian Wars, which is also known as the Wounded Knee Massacre because of the number of innocent women and children that were murdered by the American soldiers. After leaving the army, he became a member of the Pinkerton Detective Agency who spearheaded many modern detection techniques, but are nowadays best known for being called in to violently end Union strikes. Booker was fired from the Pinkerton's for being too extreme. All of this led to a downward spiral into drink and gambling which left him with crippling debt. And so he finds himself on what is essentially a kidnapping mission to "give us the girl and wipe away the debt". This is where the game starts, with two mysterious people rowing you to a lighthouse off the coast of Maine. The lighthouse is actually a means to reaching the city of Columbia.


Columbia is a city in the clouds first conceptualised at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair (also known as the World's Columbian Exposition). Created by Zachary Hale Comstock, Columbia is touted to the world as a new wonder of the world designed to spread the ideals of American Exceptionalism to the world. However, when a group of Americans were taken hostage in China during the Boxer Rebellion, the full extent of Columbia's ambition was revealed. The city was actually fully armed, and from the clouds brought the uprising to a bloody end. This so outraged President McKinley, that Columbia was disavowed. Comstock spun the story to his people that they had voluntarily seceded from the Union, and used the opportunity to create a cult of personality around himself, and the Founding Fathers of the United States, now referred to by the residents of Columbia as Father's Washington, Franklin and Jefferson. The cult of Columbia is also extremely racist, going so far as to depict Abraham Lincoln as the devil, whilst memorialising John Wilkes Booth as a hero of the people. All of the powerful and affluent people in the city are white, meanwhile Jeremiah Fink (who has a monopoly on all manufacturing on the city) buys Irish and African American "convicts" in order to keep them as slaves.

Racism is depicted very early on in this game in a very blunt manner. Videogames tend to either attempt to avoid the subject entirely, or depict it via allegory (ie: the elves in Dragon Age), and BioShock Infinite should be applauded for daring to go straight for what is usually considered a taboo. For example, the pivotal moment when DeWitt's peaceful stroll around Columbia's streets in which the city has put on a fair celebrating the anniversary of their independence, comes when he forced to enter a raffle which he wins. His prize is the opportunity to take the first throw at an interracial couple who are to be pelted to death with baseballs for their "crime". You can choose to throw it at the announcer (Fink) instead if you wish, but it doesn't make much difference... whoever you choose to throw it at, you are stopped when the police notice the letters "AD" engraved on your hand. This is the mark of the "False Shephard", who Comstock prophecised would appear in Columbia to lead "The Lamb" astray. So it turns out getting that girl isn't going to be so easy.


Once you do reach her though, Elizabeth (or "The Lamb") quickly makes her mark as one of the greatest characters in videogame history. She's been locked away in a tower shaped like the Angel Columbia (who Comstock claims came to him and showed him the future) her entire life with only books and an enormous "protector" named Songbird for company. Turns out, Songbird isn't so much a protector as he is a jailer, and he's going to be a pivotal (if somewhat underused) character in the story to come. Elizabeth will then be with you for the rest of the game as you attempt to escape from the city, begin to unravel the mysteries surrounding the city (and there are many... involving Elizabeth's "miracle" birth, the fate of Lady Comstock, exactly how a city is able to fly, who are the mysterious English twins who keep showing up and who is Daisy Fitzroy and her "terrorist" group, the Vox Populi - a lot of these are discovered via optional voice recordings just like the original game, so if you want any hope of understanding what's going on, get as many of those as possible, but unlike the original in which most of the bad stuff has already happened, turning paradise into hell before you get there, you also get to see a lot of this happen before your eyes). One thing people hate about videogames is when you are given a non player character who either just gets in the way (I'm thinking carefully laying out mines to trap a boss in Resident Evil 5, only for your "helpful" companion, Sheva to go "Hey, I've found a mine!" and throw them all back into your inventory), or are there to be protected at all costs despite having a terrible habit of running directly into danger. Thankfully, Elizabeth is not in danger during combat in this game... she keeps out of the crossfire, and nobody will deliberately aim at her, because they all want her alive. She'll constantly be there providing you with ammo, health or Salts (the equivalent of RPG's "mana" which is used to power the supernatural powers you get from Vigors - in the original game these things were referred to as EVE and Plasmids respectively). She'll also open "tears" in reality in order to bring objects from parallel versions of Columbia into your world for you to make use of. When out of combat, she'll collect money for you, and point out when she sees lockpicks (Elizabeth is a font of knowledge about many subjects thanks to her time spent reading in the tower, and one of these is lockpicking). Because she's such a major part of the game, if any part of Elizabeth failed, then the game would be infinitely worse for it. Thankfully, the development of both hers and DeWitt's characters throughout makes for a believable companionship... and the few times when she is not by your side are some of the most terrifying in the game. Especially at one late point in the game which feels a lot more like the claustrophobic survival horror of the original, which is even more disturbing as you've gotten used to the epic battles in outdoor locations.

Now, if you think the story will all be about the political machinations of Comstock, and the civil war between his founders and Daisy Fitzroy's Vox Populi, you'll really be thrown by what happens at around the halfway point of the game. Suddenly, Elizabeth's powers that until that point had just seemed like a gameplay mechanic suddenly become integral to the entire plot. What proceeds from that point on is either genius, or distracting from part of the plot that you care about depending on your viewpoint. In my view, it's genius, but rest assured that either way, it's a headfuck. When you finish the game, you probably won't know what's just happened. You'll probably have to replay the last moments of the game again and read countless articles around the internet and the BioShock Wikia in order to begin to get your head around it. If you're anything like me, you won't be able to get to sleep because all of the possibilities will be swimming around in your head. It's an ambiguous ending, and contrary to the belief's of the people who like to hate the likes of The Matrix Trilogy and Lost, this is a good thing. The fact that there are already multiple theories flying around is probably exactly what the writers intended. And you'll probably only understand that last sentence once you've seen the ending for yourself.

I haven't gone through any of the gameplay mechanics, mini-bosses, etc. as my reason for playing games is mainly to experience a story (albeit one that I can consume at my own pace, and interact with). Rest assured, if the actual gameplay was broken, I'd hate it even if I love the story. As it is, this is my favourite game that I've ever played. Not as long as Skyrim, nor as complicated as other games, for sure... but that's a plus point as far as I'm concerned. Everything in the game (even the parts that don't seem like it at first) is in service to the story. The way it should be. Don't get me wrong, there have been great game stories in the past... but I do believe that this game will go down in history in videogame storytelling as its renaissance. It's to videogames what Watchmen and The Sandman were to comics... the moment when people should hopefully pay attention and realise that games have grown up and are able to stand alongside literature, movies, music (and comics, obviously) as legitimite ways to tell an infinite number of stories, without the boundaries often associated with them. Sure, there'll always be dumb games, but that doesn't mean there can't be smart, ambitious ones in the mainstream, too... for another analogy, it's Inception to Call Of Duty's Transformers.

(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 417
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 5/4/2013 12:27:32 PM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3092
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

First, I've just got to say... wow! I don't remember a time when I've literally loved every single second of playing a videogame. The storyline (both the main one, and the ones that are told via Voxophone and Kinetoscope), the world, the characters and the concept had me captivated from the start. I especially love how at around the halfway point, the entire story is turned on its head and you never quite know what to expect from then on. I love things like that. I think a lot of people thought that the story was going to be about the political side of things... either that or they just don't appreciate a good headfuck science fiction story.

SPOILERS ABOUT THE ENDING FOLLOW IN WHITE
It seems that the "official" view on the ending on the BioShock Wikia is that by drowning Booker, the various Elizabeth's from different realities prevented the events of the game from happening, and as it's implied that Ryan and Jack from the original game are also alternate versions of Booker/Comstock, by extension this must mean the events of the entire franchise never happened. If true, then it's certainly an imaginitive way of bringing an end to your franchise, even if none of your actions in two (or three, depending on if you count BioShock 2) matter in the end. Which in a way could be what they're saying... 'It's just a game. None of it happened!'
 
But my theory about the ending could perhaps be even more depressing. Booker and Elizabeth were doomed to fail from the start. The Elizabeth's drowning Booker didn't prevent Comstock from ever existing at all. It created him. The drowning was his "baptism" in which he was literally "born again" by being transported back in time. It wasn't just alternate realities that appeared in this game, after all... Elizabeth was able to open tears to different times and places (you can go from the clouds, to Paris, to the bottom of the sea all in different years). In this case Elizabeth was the Angel Columbia (the statue on Monument Island looked a hell of a lot like her, didn't it). You never see if Anna is in her crib in the very last scene of the game... could it be that he finds she isn't there, and realises that the only way he's ever going to see his daughter again is if he becomes Comstock, tracks down Rosalind Lutece and sets the wheels into motion? It would explain why Comstock (as delusional as he may seem) is actually right about every one of his "prophecies". Why Cornelius Slate doesn't remember Comstock but does remember Booker. And it provides an alternate explanation for why Comstock looks so much older than he claims to be. And think about it... why would drowning an alternate version of the man prevent him from ever existing?
 
It's pretty depressing that he literally turned himself into a villain in order to see Anna again, knowing that she's going to hate him for it, and at some point his past self is going to turn up and smash his head open. But he must have thought it was worth it. It's also pretty depressing that if my theory is correct, this is an indefinite time loop that was created by the Lutece's intervention in order to stop it. The only thing they may have managed to prevent was Elizabeth's destruction of New York... but even that's debatable.


Hmm, have to say I don't think there's a lot to support your theory. Mine is more closer to what you say is the "official" view...

SPOILERS FOLLOW IN WHITE

Whilst it does seem a bit doubtful that 2K are effectively saying the Bioshock franchise never happened, I do think that Elizabeth and Booker were successful in stopping Comstock from existing. Elizabeth definitively states that whilst Booker rejected the baptism at the last minute, Comstock embraced it and became the religious fanatic that becomes the big bad of the game. The reason that Cornelius Slate doesn't remember Comstock but remembers Booker at the battle of Wounded Knee is that we're in Booker's reality and that Comstock has crossed over into it at some point, from another reality that's most likely ahead of this one, thus his knowledge of future events and how he creates the image of himself as a prophet. (Comstock is older than Booker, we see that when he's already older when he takes Anna through the tear when Booker tries to stop them.) The reason why the drowning prevents Comstock existing is also stated by Elizabeth. They can't go through each reality killing all the versions of Comstock as there are now an infinite number of worlds all splitting off from every choice he ever made. But they go back to the one defining moment when Booker became Comstock the first choice that created the first split and kill him then, it prevents them all. For it's worth I do think that perhaps this leaves Bioshock 1 (and if we must, 2) intact as whilst it's suggested that Jack and Ryan are another version of the Booker and Comstock, the drowning wouldn't effect their reality at all. Ryan was never a religious fanatic so I doubt he ever received a baptism (yet alone one that defined him). And Jack was his son not a version of him from another reality. I think 2K are saying that Elizabeth have saved their reality and all those linked to it, (we do jump from one to another more than once during the campaign) by that I mean all the ones that have been created as a result of Booker/Comstock's choices. But as we saw, there are a lot more different kind of lighthouses and each one a different world, with a different battle. Whilst this one is done. There are an infinite number more to still be won. As for the last scene with Booker hearing Anna but it ending before we see if shes in her crib or not. I think that was just designed to be one for you to put your own spin on and make up your own ending. Like the spinning top in Inception. If you want him to be happy, he's got Anna back and it's as if he never gave her away. If you're more the morbid sort, its the last thoughts of a dying man or something equally depressing.
 

Cool blog post by the way.

< Message edited by Vadersville -- 5/4/2013 12:46:18 PM >


_____________________________

Confusion is a way of life, not a state of mind

(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 418
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 9/4/2013 2:00:21 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9142
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
Finished this at the weekend, was pretty good. Fun to play etc. Didn't think too much of the story, it felt very convoluted and reminded me of season 6 of Lost, where if i thought about it too hard, it made my brain hurt. I actually had to read the plot on Wikipedia to fully understand Bioshock Infinite, and even then i dont think it makes much sense. Still the game is generally very well done, it felt a little light on action though.

_____________________________

Pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip!

(in reply to Vadersville)
Post #: 419
RE: Bioshock Infinite - 13/4/2013 10:26:39 AM   
Proudfoot


Posts: 435
Joined: 13/4/2009
Overall I'm a little disappointed.

Not because it's not a good game, it's amazing at times, but because I had insane expectations.

I think a second playthrough will help. Now I know what to expect... and what not to expect. For instance, the creepy horror vibe from the first Bioshock is gone and strategic battles have been replaced with a more on the fly type of action.

_____________________________

"We must never forget that we are human, and as humans we dream, and when we dream we dream of money."

(in reply to DONOVAN KURTWOOD)
Post #: 420
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