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RE: Blade Runner - 15/8/2007 3:36:39 PM   
Biggus


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So what was Gaff's motivation for leaving the unicorn behind at the end? I don't believe that it was 'to let Deckard know he's a replicant'.

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Post #: 61
RE: Blade Runner - 21/9/2007 3:49:18 PM   
shool


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From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
Great Movie, great thread.

Deckard is absolutely a replicant.

Gaff leaves him the Unicorn to let him know that he knows I think. (Not sure been a while since I've seen it, will have to watch it again very soon.)

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Post #: 62
RE: Blade Runner - 21/9/2007 4:15:01 PM   
Rumbaabaa


Posts: 1317
Joined: 25/11/2005
From: York

quote:

ORIGINAL: Biggus

So what was Gaff's motivation for leaving the unicorn behind at the end? I don't believe that it was 'to let Deckard know he's a replicant'.


It's more of a taunt than actually spelling it out for him. But Deckard's nod shows his acceptance of the truth.

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Post #: 63
RE: Blade Runner - 7/12/2007 2:36:06 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
Whaddya know Biggus, you were right!

And re Deckard being a replicant, the Final Cut's significant dialogue change certainly make that fact a lot more dubious...


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Post #: 64
RE: Blade Runner - 11/12/2007 8:57:22 PM   
Snake Plissken 3417


Posts: 293
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From: Bournemouth, Dorset, United Kingdom
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leomuse

The director's cut does not have the happy ending.


I liked the dreamy ending with the saxophone playing and the way it ended with end credits going over the mountains and then fading to black with credits rolling over it and the Vangelis score, very nice. I have a laserdisc version directors cut CAV, minus the original ending but still I like to play it loud with a comfortable loudness just lots of sub bass that rolls over the body in waves, of low frequency pressure.

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Post #: 65
RE: Blade Runner - 11/12/2007 11:19:33 PM   
TrendMeUp


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As clear as it is that Deckard is a replicant, a lot of people, and sometimes I'm included in that, wish he wasn't. I think the whole love story is more intriguing if he is human. We can also compare and contrast his behaviour to the replicants and examine what makes us human. I agree that it makes him a more tragic, sympathetic character though. And I suppose in the end, the big question when we talk about Deckard as replicant/human is: what's the difference? And that's what makes the film so great. As well as the fact it is the most visually stunning film ever made.

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Post #: 66
RE: Blade Runner - 11/12/2007 11:29:04 PM   
Snake Plissken 3417


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That’s good news he’s a (Replicant).

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Post #: 67
RE: Blade Runner - 18/12/2007 4:44:05 PM   
ScottiE


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From: The Middle of Nowhere!
quote:

ORIGINAL: Biggus

So what was Gaff's motivation for leaving the unicorn behind at the end? I don't believe that it was 'to let Deckard know he's a replicant'.


Has anyone considered the fact that Gaff could also be a replicant,  he shares the same memory implants as Deckard including the unicorn dream, which is why he leaves the unicorn as a symbol he knows what Deckard is

< Message edited by ScottiE -- 18/2/2008 12:29:13 PM >


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Post #: 68
RE: Blade Runner - 18/12/2007 5:43:01 PM   
ScottiE


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From: The Middle of Nowhere!
I just read the review of Bladeruuner on the Ilovefilm.com
it made me laugh
Boring, pretentious, overratedmuddyfunster from Chislehurst , 19th November, 2007
Let's get this clear - I'm a big fan of sci-fi and an even bigger fan of Philip K Dick. So why did I hate this? Because it's slow, uninteresting, badly-lit, uninvolving, and has this awful plinky-plunky Vangelis music throughout.

My advice: pick up a copy of the original source, 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?'. There is more wit and invention in the first four pages than the entirety of 'Blade Runner'. It's a minor scandal that Ridley Scott managed to liquidise this brilliant book and turn it into a big pile of sludge, drowning the viewer in the proces.

I take it then this guy doesnt like good movies..

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Post #: 69
RE: Blade Runner - 12/2/2008 11:07:37 PM   
homersimpson_esq


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I just saw the Final Cut at the cinema, on a sparklingly clear HD screen, and my God it looks good. The graphics pop out of the screen like nobody's business, and it's just astonishing. 

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Post #: 70
RE: Blade Runner - 13/2/2008 7:20:37 AM   
PROTOZOA

 

Posts: 144
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quote:

ORIGINAL: swordsandsandals

I just saw Blade Runner for the first time, but it was only the director's cut. I have a few questions.
  1. The Unicorn. What?
  2. What is the happy ending, that I apparently missed?
  3. Deckard is a replicant, right?
  4. Roy was nice all along, right?
  5. Erm... yeah.




NOOOOOOOOOOOO

Deckard is NOT  a replicant. In my mind his character is transient between both Philip K Dick's novel and the movie, and I have safely concluded that despite what the self trumpet blowing Ridley Scott thinks, Rick Deckard is organic human.

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Post #: 71
RE: Blade Runner - 18/2/2008 9:08:51 PM   
MathewRed


Posts: 708
Joined: 10/2/2006
I think the ''is Deckhard a replicant'' depate will keep sci-fi fans amused for centurys.

s for the film I just watched in 5 mins ago and I loved it. Really intriguing and intresting with brilliantly portrayed characters. Harrison Ford is fantastic.

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Post #: 72
RE: Blade Runner - 18/2/2008 9:40:43 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

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I think everyone's a replicant.

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Post #: 73
RE: Blade Runner - 18/2/2008 10:04:19 PM   
unhingedmoviepigeon


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I watched Blade Runner: The Final Cut on Saturday night.
Its beautifully created and a towering achievement - doesn't even look that dated. Okay, perhaps they could have removed the Atari sign, which shows its an 80's movie but overall its fantastic.
Obviously Deckard could be a replicant, as they only imprinted the 4 year life span after some replicants established emotions.
Its possible that the best Blade Runners - replicant hunters were replicants themselves!
Therefore it is possible that Deckard is a replicant.

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Post #: 74
RE: Blade Runner - 19/2/2008 12:49:07 PM   
DAVID GILLESPIE


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This movie is a classic. I've watched it countless times and still cannot decide if Deckard is a replicant.

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Post #: 75
RE: Blade Runner - 20/2/2008 10:55:55 PM   
Spartacus

 

Posts: 1593
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I picked up the special edition breifcase set in the states this Christmas and still haven't got round to watching it. Since I haven't seen it for years I should have watched it as soon as I got it, keep forgetting it's there I think. 

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Post #: 76
RE: Blade Runner - 21/2/2008 1:55:09 PM   
pablohoolio


Posts: 5027
Joined: 13/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

I think everyone's a replicant.


I know I am..... I had the Unicorn dream last night.

Had to post this as it's the first time I've evr noticed it, and I can't believe I've never noticed it before. Was watching the FC with Ridley Scotts commentary yesterday and I'm ashamed to say I've NEVER noticed before that Deckard spits at Roy Batty just before he falls, and then Batty grabs his arm.

NEVER noticed it before, in nearly twenty years of watching this movie! And it was such a nice surprise to see it because it again added something to that scene which I loved in the first place.

So Deckard is basically saying 'fuck you!' to Batty when he is about to fall, and almost saying 'if you think I'm going to beg for my life, fuck you!' and then he falls, and because he doesn't, Batty saves him. Love it, and love the fact that for some reason, i've never ever noticed it before.





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RE: Blade Runner - 22/2/2008 12:01:28 AM   
darth silas


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Same here.I never noticed Deckard spitting at Roy before.Its a nice little touch.You get the feeling Roy would have let him drop if he had begged for his life.





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Post #: 78
RE: Blade Runner - 2/4/2008 2:02:50 AM   
john25

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 13/3/2008
Bladerunner is one of  my all time favs, but my only issue with the Deckard replicant theory is that if he is a replicant then why does he appear to feel pain but  the other replicants don't?   

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Post #: 79
RE: Blade Runner - 3/1/2009 9:38:04 PM   
clownfoot


Posts: 7919
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From: The ickle town of Fuck, Austria
Here's my review of this most marvelous movie...

Blighted by an arduous shoot that led to t-shirt wars between an unsympathetic American crew and its English director; a frosty relationship with Tandem pictures; a considerable misjudgement in releasing the film with a dour voice over narration and happy ending following mediocre preview sneaks in Denver and Dallas; and the fact it followed on the boot heels of Spielberg's wonderful ET, you would think it amazing that Blade Runner ever found a loving audience. Few films that flop ever go on to do much business, yet alone receive a re-release in the form of a director's cut at cinema screens 10 years later. However, Blade Runner isn't just any other film. The opening shot alone defines the movie as something rather special, even if to admire simply as a piece of art. But there was always much more boiling under the 'layered' surface - something the critics didn't originally catch on - which has since proved that Blade Runner is perhaps the greatest science fiction movie ever made. Thank the monkey lords for sci-fi geeks and VHS, eh?

Los Angeles, 2019, and six Nexus 6 replicants, an advanced phase of robot evolution virtually identical to a human, have arrived on Earth from an off world colony. Manufactured with an in-built four-year life span, they're looking for longer lasting batteries from the genetic engineers who designed them. Problem is replicants are illegal on Earth, under penalty of death, and having killed the crew and passengers of an off-world shuttle to get to the homeworld, they're immediately targeted for retirement by special police squads - Blade Runner units - who have orders to shoot to kill upon detection any trespassing replicants. After one Blade Runner is wounded by a replicant attempting to infiltrate the Tyrell Corporation as an employee, reluctant ex-Blade Runner Rick Deckard (an excellent world weary Harrison Ford) is called in by former boss Bryant (M. Emmett Walsh) to work some of the old magic and retire the four remaining replicants. But with the Nexus 6 model being superior in strength and agility to your average man, and only being detectable by a Voight-Kampf test which measures emotional response (something replicants lack) Deckard will be hard pushed to finish the job...

You could be forgiven for thinking Blade Runner was a fast-paced action orientated adventure flick based within a futuristic landscape. It's certainly what critics were anticipating in 1982 (so much so that rumours started the film would end with a flying car chase over the skies of LA), and with Ford in the lead role following Indy and Star Wars the last thing expected was a slow burning, intense, cerebral thriller that featured more poignancy and European art house than gunplay. Yet when you look at Philip K. Dick's source novel 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?' and recognise that the content was protracted by environmental concerns and meta-physical connotations (does a computer really love you?) it's not really all that surprising. The pleasing thing is director Ridley Scott decided not to undermine the novel by turning it into an action fest, and instead concentrated on bringing to the screen perhaps the most stark and greatly realised future dystopia ever imagined.

The opening shot of an industrial shitscape with blooms of fire arcing into the sky and flying cars hovering overhead, juxtaposed by a cut to a large blinking eye and set to Vangelis' wonderful opening score, is absolutely stunning and perhaps one of the most iconic shots ever composed for science fiction. And that's just the start of the film. Having visual futurist Syd Mead on board enhanced the set design to such an extent that the look of the film almost overwhelms the rest of the movie. The heavy metal look and the layered textures of the buildings, combined with gaudy neon, big screen advertising, police 'spinners', a perpetual darkness and never ending rainfall makes for one beautiful nightmare. The world of Blade Runner is often too much for the eye to take in. That's its appeal, and why people watching it for the hundredth time are still finding something new in almost every frame. With each blink (ironic that eyes are a central theme in the movie) an entire world crashes in, be it the whimsical beauty of Eldon Tyrell's opulent office with a view to a feint sun setting behind the smog filled sky, Deckard's chase of a replicant through the populated streets of LA (including bounding through a group of Hari Krishna's) or the Bradbury building - Ridley Scott style - as you've never seen it before.

It's not surprising that since its release many a science fiction source probably owes a nod to Blade Runner. It's difficult to see the world of William Gibson's Neuromancer being set anywhere else, computer games such as Beneath A Steel Sky merely 'replicated' the visual style and numerous films have also attempted to realise the setting but with a heightened CGI colour palette. Yet, Blade Runner needs no air brushing - it looks as gorgeous today as it did in 1982. Likewise, it's fascinating that the world of Blade Runner is slowly becoming a reality with every passing day. The multicultural LA of the future, with people falling over people on its busy streets, large screen billboard advertising and a permanent 'noise' from vehicles and pedestrian crossings is really no different from that of Piccadilly Circus, Tokyo or even modern LA. The perpetual rainfall and the lack of any real animals (all animals seen in the film are replicants) is also remarkably prescient in this age of environmental concern.

If the setting is perfect for a future noir and it's burned out, down trodden, Marlow-esque detective to begin locating replicants then it's just as well Scott infused the film with depth to match the visual style. With Harrison Ford's monochrome voice over removed in the director's cut, and Ridley Scott re-inserting the original ambiguous ending and the inclusion of his precious (and beautiful) unicorn dream sequence, the subtlety of the movies themes and plot are even more greatly enhanced. The anger of the outlawed replicants and their rebellion against their creators is more thoughtfully crafted, as is Deckard's apathy to a job he loathes as he is systematically dehumanised by the process of executing those that are near enough human. Indeed, the fact that the film doesn't simply focus on Deckard but gives equal merit to those he is hunting, their thoughts, needs and concerns is unique as the audience genuinely feel sympathy for their plight. After all, as Gaff (Edward James Olmos) suggests, wouldn't we all like more life?

Like all good science fiction Blade Runner attempts to say something about the nature of man without ramming it down your throat. Roy Batty's (a superb Rutger Hauer) closing 'tears in rain' eulogy is poetic and enchanting and has more poignancy in its 'live life to the full' message that few other films can match. More so the ambiguity of Hauer's words, the motivations of the replicants and Deckard's own questionable ethics, leaves the meaning of the film specifically at the door of the viewer to make their own interpretations - the encapsulation of a perfect movie experience. You can choose to see religious allegory in Batty's meeting with Tyrell and the nail he thrusts through his hand, or not! Likewise, you can make whatever you want out of the unicorn's significance. Sure, there are some action sequences (and some gory - one sequence of eye gouging is particularly grim), but these are often tense and suspenseful, never derailing from the ethos of Blade Runner's intelligence. The replicants Deckard does manage to execute are questionable victims and the final chase is interjected by Batty alluding to a role reversal between him and his pursuer, again making the film less an obliquely black and white experience of good overcoming evil. It's much darker, oppressive and thoughtful than that...

Blade Runner is probably not for everyone. Some will find it's slow pace lethargic and the content somewhat dour and depressing. Additionally with the removal of the voice over, everything is no longer spelled out for those not conducive to subtlety and thinking for themselves. But, for those looking for a visual treat and a thoughtful, cerebral story to match, there is little that can top Blade Runner. Easily Ridley Scott's best film, with performances from Ford and Batty that neither has ever bettered, there's a good reason why a director's cut of the movie was released 10 years later. That's simply to show to those that never got round to it the first time what a truly magnificent piece of filmmaking Blade Runner is. Outstanding!


Overall - If only you could see what I have with my eyes, and whilst I'm sure I'll never get to see what the Tanhauser Gate or an attack ship on fire off the shoulders of Orion actually look like, I have seen Blade Runner. It's awesome.

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RE: Blade Runner - 4/1/2009 1:10:40 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield


Awesome review there Clowny. Makes me want to put the film on now. (Not a hard thing to want to do for me, to be honest, but still!)


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Post #: 81
RE: Blade Runner - 12/11/2009 8:19:37 PM   
Snake-Eyes


Posts: 9970
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From: ZONE 2
Just to keep the thread of one of the greatest films ever made active, I post to you this from Snake-Eyes' collection...



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Post #: 82
RE: Blade Runner - 12/11/2009 9:30:41 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1894
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mikey C

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kazuya

quote:

ORIGINAL: pablohoolio


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mikey C
I'd be quite scared if you would think that's some kind of justification. It's a motive, sure, but it's not a justification. I mean, I'm sure Ian Brady knows the values of memories and the value of living a normal life as well.


Comparing Ian Brady to an Android in a science fiction film is ridiculous.

What are you saying? Because I think Roy Batty's actions in a movie were understandable for an ANDROID that I must also feel that Ian Brady had justification in killing kids and dumping their bodies in moorland?!




Indeed.
Like I said in an earlier post, Batty's methods are questionable, but I'd still say that the treatment of him and his desperate wish to live grants him at least some measurement of justification. It's also incorrect to state that the only thing Batty wants is to extend his own life and he doesn't care about anyone else. We are shown many examples of his wish to protect Pris (Hannah) and extend her life as well.


I WASN'T COMPARING THEM. I was using Brady as an examply to show flaws in your logic!!!! Crikey.

Anyway, I had forgotten about his love for Pris. That's still a selfish instinct though; to protect you and your 'world' - ie those you love and who love you.

I'm not arguing whether or not Batty was evil, by the way. He was insane, and he was created that way, so it's not his fault. He thought that his killing was the only way to acheive his goal, which is what sociopaths do. And of course he was a sociopath - he hasn't got properly mature emotions!




Um, isn't a VERY VERY major point about Batty that until he is about to die he treats the lives of others as worth less than his, and then with his new clarity about the value of life, any life, he saves the life of someone who has been trying to hunt him down and kill him?

He wasn't a socipath, because that is a diagnosis based on examination of divergent human behaviour. You can't apply human psychology to a fictional android who was built to serve and under a form of control via implanted memories designed to try and prevent the slave wishing to no longer be a slave.

Batty treated humans with the lack of compassion humans afforded replicants. And in a totally intentional Frankenstein reference, turned against a creator who gave him the capacity to feel emotion without taking into account the effect doing that would have on the creation..


And Deckard is absolutely a Replicant. There are too many bits pointing in that direction for there to be any other conclusion. It's to Scott's credit that the film never comes out and say it, but...

He dreams of unicorns: gaff leaves an origami one for him to find. Conclusion: people other than Deckard know precisely what is happening in Deckard's mind. All the hints and allusions aside, in a film that explicitly refers to Replicants having the contents of their heads 'doctored' to control them and help them deal with their emotions, if the actual contents of Deckards head are known to someone else, he's an android.



The sympathies of the film are with the replicants all the way. They didn't ask to be created as slaves to do work too dangerous for humans. All they want is to be allowed to live. From the moment they reach Earth they are targets for 'retirement'. They know this, and the bad guys of the film are human: using replicants to do dangerous work, and then using one of them to hunt them down, after allowing him to believe he is human.






< Message edited by jobloffski -- 12/11/2009 10:02:16 PM >


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Post #: 83
RE: Blade Runner - 12/11/2009 9:38:09 PM   
hampstead bandit

 

Posts: 381
Joined: 18/9/2009
Deckard was a replicant

there is no doubt if you have seen the still images of one of the deleted scenes from the pre-theatrical cut

a picture of Deckard looking at "himself" sealed in a glass / hyper sleep type coffin

here is one of those stills



< Message edited by hampstead bandit -- 12/11/2009 9:41:06 PM >

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Post #: 84
RE: Blade Runner - 13/11/2009 4:00:00 AM   
Snake-Eyes


Posts: 9970
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: ZONE 2
quote:

ORIGINAL: hampstead bandit

Deckard was a replicant

there is no doubt if you have seen the still images of one of the deleted scenes from the pre-theatrical cut

a picture of Deckard looking at "himself" sealed in a glass / hyper sleep type coffin

here is one of those stills





Uhh... he wasn't looking at himself - it was Holden (Morgan Paull) - Deckard visits him at the hospital. This still is indeed from a deleted scene which I first saw on the CH4 doc 'EDGE OF BLADE RUNNER', I can't remember if it was included in the 'Workprint Version' included on the awesome Five-Disc blu-ray set.

< Message edited by Snake-Eyes -- 13/11/2009 4:17:58 AM >


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Post #: 85
RE: Blade Runner - 13/11/2009 8:48:49 AM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2489
Joined: 11/2/2008
There is very good fanedit about which has this scene (along with some others) back in the movie.

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Post #: 86
RE: Blade Runner - 13/11/2009 4:25:23 PM   
ElephantBoy

 

Posts: 8615
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One of the great SCI-FI's ever and one of the eighties finnest movies, although i haven't seen it in way too long.

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Post #: 87
RE: Blade Runner - 13/11/2009 4:38:08 PM   
evil bill


Posts: 6721
Joined: 19/7/2006
From: mordor/ uk
quote:

ORIGINAL: Snake-Eyes

quote:

ORIGINAL: hampstead bandit

Deckard was a replicant

there is no doubt if you have seen the still images of one of the deleted scenes from the pre-theatrical cut

a picture of Deckard looking at "himself" sealed in a glass / hyper sleep type coffin

here is one of those stills





Uhh... he wasn't looking at himself - it was Holden (Morgan Paull) - Deckard visits him at the hospital. This still is indeed from a deleted scene which I first saw on the CH4 doc 'EDGE OF BLADE RUNNER', I can't remember if it was included in the 'Workprint Version' included on the awesome Five-Disc blu-ray set.

Love it still the doubt,was he was'nt he,the sign of a true classic as it always ends up a talking point.


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Post #: 88
RE: Blade Runner - 13/11/2009 8:40:02 PM   
hampstead bandit

 

Posts: 381
Joined: 18/9/2009
damn...after all those years thinking that still was the "real" (human) decker

thanks for the info

its still an awesome film!!

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Post #: 89
RE: Blade Runner - 13/11/2009 9:19:56 PM   
Sphinx


Posts: 1805
Joined: 11/9/2006
From: East London
Let's just accept the fact that this is NEVER gonna be resolved - the question of deckard being or not being a replicant is like the ending of just, apollo 11, Indy 4 - mysteries we are never going to know about!!

.......As a ford fan I'd like to think he's a goodie and not a replicant but then there's the damn unicorn!!!!

< Message edited by Sphinx -- 22/6/2011 9:28:54 PM >


_____________________________

Meet The New Boss...Same As The Old Boss

(in reply to hampstead bandit)
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