Register  |   Log In  |  
Sign up to our weekly newsletter    
Follow us on   
Search   
Forum Home Register for Free! Log In Moderator Tickets FAQ Users Online

Empire - kings of the back track

 
Logged in as: Guest
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Feedback] >> Empire Magazine >> Empire - kings of the back track Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:10:02 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
Oh Empire

You do it again.

'Oh what's that The Fountain taken a bit of stick between cinema and dvd release, ooh let's conform to public view and give it a bit of a kicking to be seen to tie in with public opinion...

Oh what's that, we gave it fours stars originally, let's hope nobody noticed.  Oh.. we did with star wars, the matrix as well.

What's that - we need to grow a fucking spine and stand by our convictions, yes... yes we do don't we'.

Empire, whilst I commend you for seeing your error all those years back with a five star review of Episode One, placing someone who clearly didn't like The Fountain to write a DVD review of a film that is so not a one star film was a) badly considered and b) as per original point, sadly lacking in balls simply to tie in the 'in thing to do' which you collectively as a magazine always do, you are just like the NME who have their favourite band (of the week) until the next new thing come along.
 
Empire, fall in love I ask you, just don't divorce within a few months, that's all.
 
Regards
 
Jim
Post #: 1
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:11:29 PM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton
Was this review by the same person who reviewed it at the cinema?

_____________________________

[This space for rent] -

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 2
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:12:54 PM   
Mikey C


Posts: 5436
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: The internet
The Fountain is pretty divisive, though. I went to see it with a friend who told me it was the best thing ever and amazing etc... I hated it. 

_____________________________

the kind of place where there might be a monster or some kind of weird mirror.
how can they hear us say those words, and still they don't believe us?
my website www.mikeynet.co.uk
My internet ramblings

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 3
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:30:28 PM   
Olly Richards

 

Posts: 597
Joined: 30/9/2005
It's not a backtrack. As another poster said, the film was divisive and that was reflected in the Empire office, so it was fair to represent the opposing view. Those who loved it when they saw it at the cinema, including myself, still love it, but this review represents the alternative view of Ian Nathan. The original 4-star review is still online for anyone who wishes to read it.

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 4
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:33:43 PM   
talpacino


Posts: 3685
Joined: 15/11/2005
From: The Royal County
Is the dvd review online? I havnt got my copy of this month's issue yet. Did it get 1 star?

_____________________________

Currahee!

It's a different film. It's a very different film! It's a different shark!

Suppose I shot ya..How'd that be?


(in reply to Olly Richards)
Post #: 5
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:34:55 PM   
Monkeyshaver

 

Posts: 4734
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: La Planete Des Singe
I'm not in favour of films being re-evaluated but when a movie gets a dvd release its the perfect opportunity, & makes perfect sense, to give a different take on the film from a different reviewer.

_____________________________

Monkeyshaver is currently watching Doctor Who on the office TV.

(in reply to Olly Richards)
Post #: 6
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:36:30 PM   
Neth


Posts: 4750
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R


Empire, whilst I commend you for seeing your error all those years back with a five star review of Episode One, placing someone who clearly didn't like The Fountain to write a DVD review of a film that is so not a one star film was a) badly considered and b) as per original point, sadly lacking in balls simply to tie in the 'in thing to do' which you collectively as a magazine always do, you are just like the NME who have their favourite band (of the week) until the next new thing come along.
 
Empire, fall in love I ask you, just don't divorce within a few months, that's all.
 
Regards
 
Jim



The mag never gave Phantom Menace a five-star review, did it? I thought it only received four stars back in July '99?

Or are you talking about an entirely different Episode 1?


_____________________________

"You taste like a burger. I don't like you anymore."


(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 7
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:38:11 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
I stand correcterd, yes, four stars it was sorry, but I still stand by the point.
 
1 star for a film of that quality is not on frankly.

(in reply to Neth)
Post #: 8
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:42:11 PM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton
quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

1 star for a film of that quality is not on frankly.


You're completely missing the point of a review. Ian Nathan obviously doesnt think it is a film of any quality.

_____________________________

[This space for rent] -

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 9
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:44:11 PM   
ilovebeerme


Posts: 4531
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Magic Beans
Honestly, it's subjective for god's sake!

_____________________________

Like food and wine? Come join the conversation at http://kitchendecanted.com/

Latest post - Chicken with Thai basil and chili

(in reply to Felix)
Post #: 10
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:44:44 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
No, my point is that Empire have a tendancy to review a film on release and heap muchous praise on it then if the film happens to be disliked or not very well received they then back track and say 'oh we hated it all along' simply to fall in with public opinion, regardless of who reviewed it.

That's my point.

Jim

(in reply to Felix)
Post #: 11
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:45:44 PM   
Neth


Posts: 4750
Joined: 3/10/2005
I haven't read the review yet, but one star does seem a bit harsh, but I'm sure the words in the review (why does no-one ever concentrate on them instead of the star rating?) justify his opinion...

As Mikey and Olly both already stated, The Fountain is a film that split opinion wildly. What disappointed me most about it was that I neither adored nor loathed it - I merely found it "alright". And in some instances, indifference can be far worse than either loving or hating something.


_____________________________

"You taste like a burger. I don't like you anymore."


(in reply to Felix)
Post #: 12
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:46:04 PM   
ilovebeerme


Posts: 4531
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Magic Beans
It's wrong though, eh?

_____________________________

Like food and wine? Come join the conversation at http://kitchendecanted.com/

Latest post - Chicken with Thai basil and chili

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 13
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:46:52 PM   
rikkie


Posts: 4662
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ego Tripping At The Gates Of Hell
At least you lot got to see the bloody film - it didn't come within a 100 mile radius of me.  Toss.

_____________________________

Oh no, not the bees! Not the bees! Ahhhhhh! All over my eyes! Eyes! Blaaaarghhh!

(in reply to ilovebeerme)
Post #: 14
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:48:14 PM   
Mikey C


Posts: 5436
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: The internet
I had to go to Krakow to see it, rikkie... 

_____________________________

the kind of place where there might be a monster or some kind of weird mirror.
how can they hear us say those words, and still they don't believe us?
my website www.mikeynet.co.uk
My internet ramblings

(in reply to rikkie)
Post #: 15
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:48:16 PM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton
quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

No, my point is that Empire have a tendancy to review a film on release and heap muchous praise on it then if the film happens to be disliked or not very well received they then back track and say 'oh we hated it all along' simply to fall in with public opinion, regardless of who reviewed it.



They're not saying that though. They're saying that when it came out at the cinema, Helen thought it was worth 4 stars and when watched on DVD, Ian Nathan thought it was worth 1 star.

You do realise that you can still enjoy a film if Empire only give it 1 star dont you. Or are you afraid you'll have to change your mind now?


_____________________________

[This space for rent] -

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 16
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:52:41 PM   
Helen OHara

 

Posts: 3565
Joined: 15/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

No, my point is that Empire have a tendancy to review a film on release and heap muchous praise on it then if the film happens to be disliked or not very well received they then back track and say 'oh we hated it all along' simply to fall in with public opinion, regardless of who reviewed it.

That's my point.

Jim


I assure you, Jim, all those negative reviews were already out before we went to press on the cinema review. This isn't a case of backtracking at all - it's a four star film, and the In Cinemas review stands. This is just a case of giving Ian Nathan a chance to express his view, however wrong we may feel him to be.

_____________________________

"I never understood drinking. It isn't good for your looks, and it cuts down on what you are. I never wanted to cut down on what I am." - Mae West

"Movies are forever, and sex doesn't last" - Mae West.

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 17
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:54:00 PM   
jonson


Posts: 9150
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Felix


You do realise that you can still enjoy a film if Empire only give it 1 star dont you.



You're joking right? Surely not?

Cool, I'm off to Play now to buy Freddie got Fingered. I've always wanted to see it.


_____________________________

I've got all the Barbie ones!!!

Yeah but you're old. Really old. Old. Old. Old. Old.

(in reply to Felix)
Post #: 18
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 12:55:02 PM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
Felix, I assure you I won't be changing my mind, it's a beautiful, emotional film that I will take the cinematic experience of watching to my grave, so no I won't be doing an empire !

(in reply to Helen OHara)
Post #: 19
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 1:06:22 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Well after reading the review I get the feeling Mr.Nathan has a thing against art students.

I liked it well enough, maybe a three star film, but one star seems to be more about making a point than anything else. Which is fine - but surely the visuals were brilliant?  The review spends a lot of time complaining about fans of the film rather than what he felt was wrong with it -  a little more depth in the criticism would have been nice, at the very least it was trying to say something - unlike an AVP or Ultraviolet for instance.

Although the zit comment was gold.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Helen OHara)
Post #: 20
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 1:17:06 PM   
Chris Hewitt

 

Posts: 1613
Joined: 30/9/2005
As Helen says, the review is Ian N's opinion. He's well grumpy!

_____________________________

Silly Empire man who asks BORING questions!

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 21
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 1:24:08 PM   
ilovebeerme


Posts: 4531
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Magic Beans
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Hewitt

As Helen says, the review is Ian N's opinion. He's well grumpy!


He is too!  It even says so on Wikipedia...... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_%28magazine%29

_____________________________

Like food and wine? Come join the conversation at http://kitchendecanted.com/

Latest post - Chicken with Thai basil and chili

(in reply to Chris Hewitt)
Post #: 22
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 1:26:23 PM   
Mikey C


Posts: 5436
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: The internet
quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovebeerme

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Hewitt

As Helen says, the review is Ian N's opinion. He's well grumpy!


He is too!  It even says so on Wikipedia...... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_%28magazine%29


You wiki-vandal, you!


_____________________________

the kind of place where there might be a monster or some kind of weird mirror.
how can they hear us say those words, and still they don't believe us?
my website www.mikeynet.co.uk
My internet ramblings

(in reply to ilovebeerme)
Post #: 23
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 1:31:02 PM   
ilovebeerme


Posts: 4531
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Magic Beans
I got a jolly good ticking off!

"Welcome, and thank you for your attempt to lighten up Wikipedia. However, this is an encyclopedia and the articles are intended to be serious, so please don't make joke edits, as you did to Empire (magazine). Readers looking for serious articles will not find them amusing. If you'd like to experiment with editing, try the sandbox, where you can write (almost) whatever you want. Thank you. Dweller 12:26, 27 April 2007 (UTC)"

 - Bloody good response time from them i must say. 

_____________________________

Like food and wine? Come join the conversation at http://kitchendecanted.com/

Latest post - Chicken with Thai basil and chili

(in reply to Mikey C)
Post #: 24
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 1:35:15 PM   
Chris Hewitt

 

Posts: 1613
Joined: 30/9/2005
That was fast. I went on there to see what you'd written and it had already gone. But hey, I didn't even know we had a Wikipedia entry! We've made it! FAMOUS!

_____________________________

Silly Empire man who asks BORING questions!

(in reply to ilovebeerme)
Post #: 25
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 1:36:43 PM   
ilovebeerme


Posts: 4531
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Magic Beans
We're talking jape of the century.  I put 'well grumpy' in brackets after Mr Nathans name.  I know! 

Maybe if I provide a reference.....

_____________________________

Like food and wine? Come join the conversation at http://kitchendecanted.com/

Latest post - Chicken with Thai basil and chili

(in reply to Chris Hewitt)
Post #: 26
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 1:36:59 PM   
Felix

 

Posts: 15692
Joined: 29/9/2005
From: Brighton
You've got one too Chris!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hewitt 

_____________________________

[This space for rent] -

(in reply to Chris Hewitt)
Post #: 27
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 27/4/2007 1:37:50 PM   
Mikey C


Posts: 5436
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: The internet
Nazi mods.

Back on track - one star is obviously a bit of daft rhetoric. You don't have to take star marks so seriously.
I didn't like it but I'd probably give it 3 stars since it is well made and, at the very least, interesting.


_____________________________

the kind of place where there might be a monster or some kind of weird mirror.
how can they hear us say those words, and still they don't believe us?
my website www.mikeynet.co.uk
My internet ramblings

(in reply to ilovebeerme)
Post #: 28
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 28/4/2007 1:31:41 PM   
Jasper


Posts: 424
Joined: 1/10/2005
You could rent The Fountain, turn up the volume, close your eyes for 100 minutes and have a wonderful time. The sountrack by Clint Mansell is a masterpiece, even if the film itself is merely bloody fantastic.  


_____________________________

"Some people will offer you their hand and some won't

Last night I knew ya, tonight I don't

I need something strong, to distract my mind

I'm gonna look at you, till my eyes go blind"

(in reply to Mikey C)
Post #: 29
RE: Empire - kings of the back track - 28/4/2007 2:03:51 PM   
MohadGlub


Posts: 51
Joined: 15/4/2007
My thread was blocked because it was insulting?? when Ian Nathan in actual print insulted everyone who enjoyed the film by calling them fountainheads and making derisive comments....

If you are going to censor my opinion because it makes Empire staff feel uncomfortable, rather than actually standing up to debate, then I'm very dissapointed in the representatives of a magazine which I enjoy a lot. Surely the mature thing to do would be to reply in a manner which showed me some small manner of respect.

Yes, I insulted Ian Nathan, but he was very insulting in his review, and so I believe I'm justified. And whether I'm justified or not, I think its quite cowardly to ignore the bulk of my criticism which was quite civil, and which took me serious consideration. The fact of the matter is, the reviewer in question has been spared from a justified attack on his somewhat petulant methods because offence was taken to mine (which weren't petulant). Offence can be generated from a great many posts on this forum, and if a grown man is going to feel mollified by being called a moron by one of the readers of his review, I would consider it a greater question of his insecurities (or the insecurities of whoever stepped in to represent him) than of my insult.

My comments (posted below) were a mature and dignified responce which still demands some form of reply, and not petty censorship.

With all due respect,







(From my earlier blocked thread)






This thread is an attack on Ian Nathan, who reviewed The Fountain, for its DVD release in this month's magazine (June)- giving it 1 star and a damnably childish, cynical pout that frankly shames any man that's ever constructed a decent argument/review.


I won't post up the article; because the um… ahem... hard fruit of your labour is not something worth getting into any legal issues over (I don't really know the situation with posting up articles or fragments of). I shall, however, quote you and hope this doesnt tread on your pompous toes.




I believe that a good critic will possess two basic qualities: a sharp wit and an interesting aptitude of language as well as an objective eye. Sadly you are not particularly acquainted with either as your review of The Fountain clearly shows. You debase yourself into constructing immature, desperately bitter comments disguised as superior cynicism. There is no actual criticism in the review; merely invalid analogies one after the other with no purpose other than to make unsubstantiated mockery of a perfectly respectable picture.

It's amusing that you have taken something designed to be deep and thought-provoking, and (regardless of whether you think it is or not) produced a mundane, patronising denial that favours arrogant dismissal over actual critical judgement. Surely if this piece of "pretend art” has failed so spectacularly, the very least you could do would be to explain why in a manner which suggests that you are indeed a "free-thinker” from "the land of reason” rather than from the land of frantic small-mindedness.

"Imagine enduring a 98-minute poetry recital from a manic-depressive art student who sprung a mega-zit on the morning of a date with a girl like the one from Constantine.”
I'm not sure what you're trying to do here, because it looks to me like you're using the review as an excuse to single-handedly criticise poetic films, depressive films, art students and anything of a certain genre of the artistic spectrum. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming that you wouldn't stoop to such small-mindedness, and take it that you completely missed the entire perspective of the film. The Fountain is by no means "manic depressive”; in fact it is wholly the opposite, it is a very uplifting journey of discovery and fulfilment that encourages us to live our lives fully; go roll in the snow, spend each moment to the full...

"Its thoughts are cranky and juvenile, its execution languid bordering on mopey, its cinematography the colour of sea water.”
I don't know what part of the coast you have had experience of, but by god I want to go there…. If sea water is saturated in rich golds and bright ethereal white, if sea water is as vividly visually stimulating as the joys of The Fountain's moving spectacle, then I must be living in a very dull, disappointing fantasy and witnessing reality upon entering The Fountain's theatre. Your venerable perspective of reality is greatly received. Perhaps next time I see something beautiful I shall tell myself fervently, 'its just sea water… its just sea water'.

Cranky and juvenile are words which are so completely invalid when forced into a review of The Fountain that it makes me wonder if they are there by mistake. The Fountain, however you believe its execution is managed, is heavy, meaningful stuff- it tackles powerful themes on life, love and death- it draws in a whole pile of eastern spirituality and presents it in a glorious package of philosophy and thought-provocation. Juvenile is not at all the word to describe such a film, and your error in vocabulary is disturbing, especially considering the manner in which you are giving your impression upon keen movie-goers looking for fair analysis.

Said movie-goers will be dissapointed to follow any word you might have on the matter, though you would hardly care from your "clear-minded” position as a "free-thinker”- calling any fans of the film "Fountainheads"  and taking their understanding of the film as proof of 'air headedness' and offering further proof of critical immaturity both through this approach, which lacks ALL objectivity and through your use of words which would be better suited for a trashy, simple-minded tabloid rather than a self respecting specialty magazine.

Another, very desperate method you use to attempt to influence people to your way of thinking is by referencing the film's box office and budget- two factors which are, as I'm sure you're very much aware, in no way related to the film's artistic and cinematic worth. In full knowledge of this fact, you have to admit that the jibe was nothing more than a spiteful and banal comment to throw in amongst all the others you've conjured unduly.


Throughout the review you try so hard to convince readers that your one star rating has been awarded on a superior analysis, that cuts through the 'fountainheaded' nonsense and delivers your 'freely thought' judgement from whatever grand podium you have placed yourself upon. The fact of the matter is, all your unfounded cynicism, all your childish comments betray a frightening misinterpretation of the film's message, a message which has clearly gone well over your head (quite a feat considering how inflated it is off the ground)


Do reply.....


(in reply to Jasper)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Feedback] >> Empire Magazine >> Empire - kings of the back track Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


 
Movie News  |  Empire Blog  |  Movie Reviews  |  Future Films  |  Features  |  Video Interviews  |  Image Gallery  |  Competitions  |  Forum  |  Magazine  |  Resources
 
Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.109