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The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 26/2/2007 10:52:02 PM   
The Mighty


Posts: 1743
Joined: 30/9/2005
The Black Donnellys finally airs tomorrow, taking the spot of critics favourite, Studio 60. If the shows numbers are any better, or even the same, then it looks like Studio 60 is a goner. As much as I liked the pilot, not as much as some of the other posters, I still hope this show fails. I'm having way too much fun with Studio 60 at the moment, and I believe the show will only get better. I'd rather sacrifice this show to save the other. Is anyone else going to download this? I'm interested in seeing how it airing tomorrow will differ from the Pilot leaked online during the summer.

Strangely, it looks like the show wasn't quite was well recieved by critics in America as it was on here.

USA Today gives it one star (out of four) and says:

… a failed, frustrating attempt to build a weekly hour around four young thugs staking out their criminal ground between New York's Irish and Italian Mobs. … It won't be long before you're asking yourself two main questions: Is the plot ever going to sort itself out? And is Joey ever going to shut up? The answers are "in time" and, sadly, "no." You'll eventually be able to tell one gun-toting, ax-wielding character from another. You're just not likely to develop a desire to spend time with them. …

Entertainment Weekly gives it a “C-plus” and says:

… a thinking viewer's head-scratcher … Haggis equates the slow revealing of character and plot with classy writing; you'll probably experience it as stuff you can see coming a mile away. …


The New York Times says:

… Paul Haggis’s much-celebrated 2004 film, “Crash,” used shortcuts — clichés in the score, camerawork and color mix — to induce emotional responses. The same methods inform his latest television series, “The Black Donnellys.” Actually the show lays bare his form of aesthetic condescension so baldly that it may cause viewers to rethink his earlier achievement. …

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31696

Post #: 1
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 26/2/2007 11:38:36 PM   
Dave B


Posts: 2761
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Southampton
I really enjoyed it and I'll probably download the pilot again to refresh my memory of the plot. I kinda agree with you about it wanting to fail though, if that means Studio 60 has a bigger chance of getting a second season.

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RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 27/2/2007 12:03:48 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Do you guys really want Studio 60 back for another season? I love Sports Nights and doubt anything on television will ever top the West Wing but I have to admit to being really really disappointed with Studio 60. I know where the loyality comes from, I have stuck with it but theres so many fundamental flaws with the show. The acting is good, and there are moments of Sorkin magic, but I won't be too upset if its cancelled. It's not like he'll not be able to get a new show developed - and i'll be there first night.

Oh and the Black Donnellys looks alright, but as its not cable I have a feeling its going to be somewhat tame compared to some of the dramas in this genre we have seen in recent years. Also it doesn't help that Brotherhood is on Showtime and seems to be telling the same sort of story, only far far better.

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Post #: 3
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 27/2/2007 12:20:59 AM   
The Mighty


Posts: 1743
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Do you guys really want Studio 60 back for another season? I love Sports Nights and doubt anything on television will ever top the West Wing but I have to admit to being really really disappointed with Studio 60. I know where the loyality comes from, I have stuck with it but theres so many fundamental flaws with the show. The acting is good, and there are moments of Sorkin magic, but I won't be too upset if its cancelled. It's not like he'll not be able to get a new show developed - and i'll be there first night.

Oh and the Black Donnellys looks alright, but as its not cable I have a feeling its going to be somewhat tame compared to some of the dramas in this genre we have seen in recent years. Also it doesn't help that Brotherhood is on Showtime and seems to be telling the same sort of story, only far far better.


Yes, I want a second season. I agree that the show is flawed, but I don't believe those flaws are fundamental. The show has had some doggy moments, but what first seasons haven't? And I believe it has improved as it has gone along. I would like to see more focus on the actual making the show, but it's those "moments of Sorkin magic" that show me that it can be something great, and if Sorkin manages to get even close to the level of The West Wing, then it'll be worth the downfall of Donnellys.

And will Sorkin want to go back to television if Studio 60 fails? After being fired from The West Wing, and forced to turn Studio 60 from a work place drama to a romantic comedy, I'm not sure he'll want to return to the medium.

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Post #: 4
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 27/2/2007 1:04:21 AM   
Joedini


Posts: 2885
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: Kent
Hell yes to Studio 60 coming back! One of the greats this season. I'm already missing it

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Post #: 5
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 27/2/2007 1:25:50 AM   
Underscore


Posts: 1784
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The West Wing
I have an instant dislike for this show simply because it took Studio 60 off the air. Damn you The Black Donnellys, damn you!!!

So cast me for a bring back Studio 60 vote!


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Post #: 6
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 27/2/2007 1:57:36 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Mighty


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Do you guys really want Studio 60 back for another season? I love Sports Nights and doubt anything on television will ever top the West Wing but I have to admit to being really really disappointed with Studio 60. I know where the loyality comes from, I have stuck with it but theres so many fundamental flaws with the show. The acting is good, and there are moments of Sorkin magic, but I won't be too upset if its cancelled. It's not like he'll not be able to get a new show developed - and i'll be there first night.

Oh and the Black Donnellys looks alright, but as its not cable I have a feeling its going to be somewhat tame compared to some of the dramas in this genre we have seen in recent years. Also it doesn't help that Brotherhood is on Showtime and seems to be telling the same sort of story, only far far better.


Yes, I want a second season. I agree that the show is flawed, but I don't believe those flaws are fundamental. The show has had some doggy moments, but what first seasons haven't? And I believe it has improved as it has gone along. I would like to see more focus on the actual making the show, but it's those "moments of Sorkin magic" that show me that it can be something great, and if Sorkin manages to get even close to the level of The West Wing, then it'll be worth the downfall of Donnellys.

And will Sorkin want to go back to television if Studio 60 fails? After being fired from The West Wing, and forced to turn Studio 60 from a work place drama to a romantic comedy, I'm not sure he'll want to return to the medium.


I would call it a noble failure. Sorkins intentions are pure but for me the flaw is setting it in a SNL type show. I don't know live anyone here has read Live From New York which is a tell all book about SNL through the years but the amount of drama that happened in reality would make the basis for a much more intresting story. For me the fundamental failures are two fold

a) I know this is said a lot and will be instantly thrown back at me, but the sketches we have seen aren't that funny. Some of you might say "thats not the point" to which I would reply "why set it on a live comedy show?" - why not a soap opera? He set himself up for a fall there, of course this could be personal taste and everyone else busts a gut when they see them...

b) It in no way reflects the realities of that type of show. Unlike the West Wing where we could believe in characters who were trying to do good and had egos the size of small nations, here it does not apply. Like i say, the stories you read about would make for a great show on HBO. Here everyone is just a little too noble.

Anyways, I have derailed this thread a little. Donnellys isnt going to have much of a chance as everyone will be annoyed that it replaced Studio 60. That and its written by someone that wishes he had an ounce of Sorkins talent.

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Post #: 7
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 27/2/2007 5:56:12 PM   
The Mighty


Posts: 1743
Joined: 30/9/2005
Have the ratings come in yet? Is Studio 60's fate sealed?

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Post #: 8
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 27/2/2007 9:42:17 PM   
The Mighty


Posts: 1743
Joined: 30/9/2005
It may seem sad to reply to your own post, but I don't really care...

"CBS and NBC were locked in a tight ratings race Monday night, according to preliminary ratings. But the big shocker was how America tuned out NBC's premiere of "The Black Donnellys." The show started with nearly 10 million in its first half-hour; the audience then fell to 6.9 million in the second half-hour. That's what we call rejection."

From 10 to 6. Ouch. Still stronger then the last aired episode of Studio 60, but will these numbers stick? And if they do, is that still enough to keep it around? Or will NBC just scrap both and replace them with someone new next season? I'm guessing Studio 60 stays gone, and if Donnelly's keeps these numbers it will probably come back next season with a 13 episode order, and new time slot.

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Post #: 9
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 27/2/2007 9:57:49 PM   
Underscore


Posts: 1784
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The West Wing
Haha, I've just posted virtually the same thing in the Studio 60 thread. I'm hopeful by these numbers, the dip made the show get lower ratings than the Studio 60 pilot did when that debuted and that can only seen as a good thing for Studio 60. I think it's all dependant on next week and the week after that for Donnellys. If it plummets again in it's second half with lower ratings than before, it gives Studio 60 a greater chance of getting it's final episodes aired.

As regards to the show, I haven't seen it and I don't want to. From what I can tell, there's a huge amount of crime dramas out there better than this with the likes of The Sopranos and The Wire, so I'd prefer the fresher and more unique Studio 60 to survive for that reason alone.


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Post #: 10
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 27/2/2007 10:11:48 PM   
The Mighty


Posts: 1743
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Underscore

Haha, I've just posted virtually the same thing in the Studio 60 thread. I'm hopeful by these numbers, the dip made the show get lower ratings than the Studio 60 pilot did when that debuted and that can only seen as a good thing for Studio 60. I think it's all dependant on next week and the week after that for Donnellys. If it plummets again in it's second half with lower ratings than before, it gives Studio 60 a greater chance of getting it's final episodes aired.

As regards to the show, I haven't seen it and I don't want to. From what I can tell, there's a huge amount of crime dramas out there better than this with the likes of The Sopranos and The Wire, so I'd prefer the fresher and more unique Studio 60 to survive for that reason alone.



I thought the Donnellys pilot was very good, well worth watching. It's a shame it's up against Studio 60, because I would prefer both to stay on air. It's much better than a lot of the other crap on television at the moment. It's sad seeing two quality shows having to fight it out and complete, when reality crap like The Biggest Looser gets renewed year after year. I remember when the same thing was happening with Studo 60 and Friday Night Lights.

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Post #: 11
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 27/2/2007 10:34:27 PM   
Underscore


Posts: 1784
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The West Wing
It's a shame both shows can't survive, but the reality is that it is a competition between the two. The rumour is that if The Black Donnellys gets the same ratings as Studio 60 did in it's last few weeks, Studio 60 will be axed because it costs far more.

I'm a big fan of Studio 60, I know some people don't think it's television gold but I think it's an excellent show which occasionally hsa an episode which is essential viewing. The pilot was superb and B12 and The Christmas Show were as good as The West Wing. Which is why I'm not giving up on it, I think it has the potential but I do feel that Sorkin has been forced to making a show about romance when it wasn't his original intention.

Anyway, I don't want to make this another Studio 60 thread but I suppose the two are intrinsically linked.

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Post #: 12
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 8/3/2007 7:59:08 PM   
The2ndRing


Posts: 3957
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: rehab
Does anyone know if this is going to be broadcast in the UK?

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Post #: 13
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 8/3/2007 8:07:08 PM   
Captain Black


Posts: 6667
Joined: 30/9/2005
It should be at some point - after all cancelled shows are being shown in the UK on both main and digital channels. It was originally supposed to air on ITV2 but, I guess depending on its success (or apparent lack thereof in the States) it may be moved down the channels.

Anyway I've seen the second ep and it continues to surpise (in a good way), carrying on directly after the pilot where I'd anticipated a lengthy gap. Though it took time to find its pace within the episode, but there were some really good moments (particularly when the mother covered up Kevin's blood stained sleeve) and I like the way they're using Joey Ice Ccream in an almost surreal nature - similar to Fraser's father in Due South - though I think the resolution to 'how do you know all this?' will get a bit tired if they do it in future episodes.

Edit: and the 'previously on' was hilarious!

< Message edited by Captain Black -- 8/3/2007 8:08:54 PM >


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RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 8/3/2007 8:34:25 PM   
The Mighty


Posts: 1743
Joined: 30/9/2005
I think I'm going to wait and see if the show gets cancelled before I decided to invest in it. It's a shame TV has come to this, but I guess thats the way things go.

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Post #: 15
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 8/3/2007 8:53:41 PM   
hongkongphooey


Posts: 464
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Glasgow
Anyone watched the episode which is 'too shocking to show on tv' and is only available online? I'm not sure where it fits in, and can't watch it on NBC - anyone manage to get it working via a proxy?

Thought the second episode was good, and I hope it doesn't get cancelled as it has a lot of potential.

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Post #: 16
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 8/3/2007 9:01:08 PM   
Captain Black


Posts: 6667
Joined: 30/9/2005
Unfortunately not. I was hoping it would be leaked on the torrents like the Day Break online only episodes were. That (Day Break) was uploaded within a week, so fingers crossed it'll be up there by the next episode. I think you may be able to view it through Live Journal somehow, but I haven't looked into that yet - it can't be something that's imperative to the storyline otherwise all of the the TV audience would be left out.

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RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 9/3/2007 12:39:41 AM   
Mycroft


Posts: 2586
Joined: 30/9/2005
I managed to download the NBC stream after much palaver, its in 6 Flash video segments. Only glanced at it but the story does move forwards in at least one way. Anyone want it?

I'm really enjoying the show so far, even though all the brothers besides Tommy are unbelievably stupid.

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Post #: 18
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 9/3/2007 1:02:57 AM   
The Mighty


Posts: 1743
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mycroft

I managed to download the NBC stream after much palaver, its in 6 Flash video segments. Only glanced at it but the story does move forwards in at least one way. Anyone want it?

I'm really enjoying the show so far, even though all the brothers besides Tommy are unbelievably stupid.



How did you mange to get around the proxy issue? The NBC site also has all 6 episodes of Andy Barker P.I, and I really want to watch them. Also, being able to steam episodes straight from the ABC site would be much easier.

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Post #: 19
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 9/3/2007 8:45:52 PM   
Mycroft


Posts: 2586
Joined: 30/9/2005
Using Tor to route the traffic over multiple hops, it'll take about 10 minutes to setup, PM me if you want to try


< Message edited by Mycroft -- 9/3/2007 8:46:51 PM >

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Post #: 20
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 9/3/2007 9:11:04 PM   
Barefoot Doctor


Posts: 1535
Joined: 30/9/2005
I wasn't all that impressed by episode 2. It lacked the energy that made the pilot so enjoyable. Found it to be a very depressing hour of television - realistic because of what the Donnellys had just done but not what I expected the show to be. And the mystery of Joey Ice Cream, while interesting, seems totally out of place with the rest of the show. I've seen suggestions elsewhere that he's actually Tommy (in a Keyser Soze-esque twist).

Interesting to note that the show was originally called 'The Truth According To Joey Ice Cream'...

So here's to hoping that next weeks episode is more fun!


< Message edited by Barefoot Doctor -- 9/3/2007 9:16:27 PM >

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Post #: 21
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 9/3/2007 11:34:51 PM   
Dave B


Posts: 2761
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Southampton
Kinda agree with Barefoot there. It didn't really grab my attention until they started getting rid of the body. I'll stick with it but I'm not expecting it too last long so I won't be too bothered if it gets cancelled.

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Post #: 22
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 10/3/2007 9:16:28 AM   
Captain Black


Posts: 6667
Joined: 30/9/2005
The web episode is up on the torrents for anyone interested.

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RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 10/3/2007 9:53:26 AM   
hongkongphooey


Posts: 464
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Glasgow
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Black

The web episode is up on the torrents for anyone interested.


Thanks for that - I would've missed it otherwise :)

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Post #: 24
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 13/3/2007 10:32:26 AM   
Dave B


Posts: 2761
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Southampton
Is the web episode called God Is a Commedian?

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Post #: 25
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 13/3/2007 4:31:39 PM   
Filmic Joe


Posts: 487
Joined: 20/6/2006
From: The place that I am
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave B

Is the web episode called God Is a Commedian?


No, that's just the third broadcast episode.  Although I have yet to see it (or anything other than the pilot, because I can't find a working version anywhere) I think the online episode is an alternative pilot, but I'm not 100% on that.

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Post #: 26
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 13/3/2007 5:11:26 PM   
Barefoot Doctor


Posts: 1535
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave B

Is the web episode called God Is a Commedian?


Yeah. The episode that aired last night in the States is called "The World Will Break Your Heart". And I don't think the web only episode is an alternate pilot either, I've read it takes place after the events of the pilot.

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Post #: 27
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 13/3/2007 6:14:34 PM   
hongkongphooey


Posts: 464
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Glasgow
The events which took place in the webisode are mostly described by Joey Ice Cream in the 'official' episode 3 so you're not missing a great deal if you don't get to watch it.

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Post #: 28
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 13/3/2007 7:26:25 PM   
Dave B


Posts: 2761
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Southampton
I downloaded the web only episode but can't get it to work. Anyone know where I can get a avi version of it?

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Post #: 29
RE: The Black Donnellys - US Speed - 13/3/2007 7:41:50 PM   
hongkongphooey


Posts: 464
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Glasgow
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave B

I downloaded the web only episode but can't get it to work. Anyone know where I can get a avi version of it?


No, but if you d/l FLV player, it should work - mine did. I got it at

http://www.download.com/FLV-Player/3000-2139_4-10467082.html

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Post #: 30
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