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RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:28:13 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Actually why would you watch The Plan in between the two mutiny episodes?

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 1921
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:28:40 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
http://thunderpeel2001.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/battlestar-galactica-viewing-order.html

This is the order I watched all the Eps, including the specials and webisodes on my second go and it worked perfectly.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 1922
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:31:42 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Actually why would you watch The Plan in between the two mutiny episodes?


Eps 15 and 16 aren't the mutiny eps.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 1923
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:32:19 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: the anomaly


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: the anomaly

Finished!


SPOILERS END OF THE SHOW


MIXED FEELINGS

Annoyed at

- No explanation of what Kara is / was and how she returned.
- Was the final Cylon ship truly destroyed by the nukes from one Raptor?
- Why did the Cylon leader kill himself?
- Why resurrection was offered up so freely in the first place? The main thing the Cylon seemed to have wanted was to become a Robot again. Resurrection doesn't fix this. Though I guess it removes the issue of mortality and everything that stems from it.
- Why the Chief got away with killing the other final/original Cylon
?

Enjoyed

- The lead up to the final stand off in the bridge.
- The idea of tying the new Earth to ours
.





To add I thought some time travel would be involved with all the black holes and vortex's (quite sure Sam mentions it too in his ramblings before the op). I thought Kara goes through the vortex and from that moment there was one that finds Earth and one that dies. Then to skip to the end Kara finds Earth again but this time it's Earth ... the same one they found before but waaaaaaay in the past.

Oh and this http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Number_Seven my mind started to race about Kara's father / step father being the seventh.



To answer your points - (not sure why I am putting SPOILER but there you go)

No explanation of what Kara is / was and how she returned.

Kara was one of the HeadCharacters at the end - what the colonists called an "angel" but could be the visual representation of any advanced being.

Yet there's no closure on this. Was she always this higher being? Or was it only once the real Kara died did she awaken? Completely ambiguous. Which can be fine but in this instance felt like a cop out.

Was the final Cylon ship truly destroyed by the nukes from one Raptor?

The ship was sitting right on the edge of a black hole. The nukes knocked it out of orbit and towards the hole. The sheer pressure was crushing the ship and so while the nukes did some damage, it was really this which took it out.

Fair enough I'd forgotten the were within an asteroid field, next to a black hole.


Why did the Cylon leader kill himself?

Cavill had lost - he could no longer ressurect and with the other Cylons being shot to death, he killed himself - a final expression of choice which made his race more than just machines. It was actually the actors idea, and played into the character wanting to be more human than human.

It all kicked off so quickly. Why didn't they just stop the chief strangling Tory? Fair enough there was clearly a lack of trust ... bit of a stand off and you could say Cavil didn't want to live without at least having the ability to resurrect. I accept that. But before that point it looked like they were winning! They had battered Galactica a hell of a lot from the exterior and they'd managed to get to the bridge and they had the girl. The show made it seem as if everything was on their side and Galactica were the under dogs. Yet suddenly the tables turned too quickly for me to get with it.


Why resurrection was offered up so freely in the first place? The main thing the Cylon seemed to have wanted was to become a Robot again. Resurrection doesn't fix this. Though I guess it removes the issue of mortality and everything that stems from it.

Resurrection gave them immortality - when it was removed the Cylons finally understood what death was. Cavil wanted it back in order to continue his journey of escaping the elderly man he was designed to be.

Why the Chief got away with killing the other final/original Cylon

As Tigh says, no one would blame him for killing Tory. Rememeber he experienced the death of his wife in those moments. It was a pure, human reaction. After they get to Earth, what reason would they have to punish him?


Because he's a liability? Not the first time he's lost it. Add to the fact he had serious issues with his wife. Goes outright to say he resents her. Finally discovering the child isn't his he doesn't seem to care. Then starts to fall for Boomer. It's not as cut and dry as that but it's also not black and white to just say it's fine he strangled Tory to death when peace between the Cylons and Humans was resting on them simply completing that download. Hell if she had to die it could have waited?


Oh and this http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Number_Seven my mind started to race about Kara's father / step father being the seventh.

Daniel was invented in order to explain away a numbering problem with the Cylons


Number One (John Cavil)
Number Two (Leoben Conoy)
Number Three (D'Anna Biers)
Number Four (Simon O'Neill)
Number Five (Aaron Doral)
Number Six (Six)

Number Eight (Boomer)

Either one of the Final Five was in the position of Seven, which doesn't make sense or there was a Cylon between Six and Eight. So they invented Daniel to plug that gap so it is now;

Number One (John Cavil)
Number Two (Leoben Conoy)
Number Three (D'Anna Biers)
Number Four (Simon O'Neill)
Number Five (Aaron Doral)
Number Six (Caprica-Six / Shelly Godfrey / Gina Inviere / Natalie Faust / Lida / Sonja)
Number Seven (Daniel)
Number Eight (Sharon "Boomer" Valerii / Sharon "Athena" Agathon)
The Final Five (Samuel Anders, Galen Tyrol, Tory Foster, Saul Tigh, Ellen Tigh)

I did read the page I linked too Just noting that it would have been quite interesting.





I loved the journey but I feel the Cylon story could have been fleshed out more in the last season. So I'm looking forward to the Plan to discover ... well their agenda ... honestly start of the series they are a large and immortal fleet ... against two battle stars. The fact that by the end they are a complete ruin is mind boggling.

Then the whole Kara / Six Inner / Gaius Inner - not clear what these are? Angels? Truly? Or some program created to guide events? They refer to God at the end ... is that actually God ... or a man made God ...

Whilst I was glad to see certain characters finally being able to quit fighting and live the rest of their lives ... it felt quite rushed and as it sinks in my disappointment is growing.

Apologies for the rambling.



Some of your questions are left out there to be answered by yourself. But just because the word "God" is used, doesn't mean it is literally God.

And as for the angels - they are no different really to the Monliths of 2001 - guiding mankind at certain key points.

By the by - about Kara - she died in that werid formatation - and what came back was the HeadCharacter that HeadSix and HeadBalter were. What they are is up to you really. I don't really feel like they needed to be explained more than they were - the point was that even with the very human events on the ships, there is a grander scheme in the galaxy which we are only a small part of.

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Post #: 1924
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:32:56 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4424
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor
After the Ellen?Cavil flashback ep, I'm presuming.

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Post #: 1925
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:33:33 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Actually why would you watch The Plan in between the two mutiny episodes?


Eps 15 and 16 aren't the mutiny eps.


Ep 15 is The Oath
Ep 16 is Blood on the Scales

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 1926
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:35:53 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Oh I see what has happened. Because this guy shifted Razor down the list for some reason.

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Post #: 1927
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:36:56 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Actually why would you watch The Plan in between the two mutiny episodes?


Eps 15 and 16 aren't the mutiny eps.


Ep 15 is The Oath
Ep 16 is Blood on the Scales


4.15 No Exit http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993916/

4.16 Deadlock http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993917/

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 1928
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:38:34 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
The Plan is kinda pointless after No Exit because it simply goes over the same ground that Tigh and Ellen discuss in the episode. To be honest I don't actually like the Plan - I think the editing is awful (in particular when it tries to explain who left the note in the miniseries), the actors look hilariously older, bigger than when the mini series was on, and it doesn't move anything forward.

The only saving grave is the rather beautfiul sequence where we see the colonies destroyed.

Part of me wishes they hadn't bothered with it.

< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 2/7/2012 8:40:24 PM >


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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 1929
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:38:34 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4424
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor
Please let's not argue about episode numbers. We all know what episodes were originally meant.

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Post #: 1930
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:39:19 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Actually why would you watch The Plan in between the two mutiny episodes?


Eps 15 and 16 aren't the mutiny eps.


Ep 15 is The Oath
Ep 16 is Blood on the Scales


4.15 No Exit http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993916/

4.16 Deadlock http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993917/


As you will have noted above I see what the guy did. Razor was actually episodes one and two of season 4.

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 1931
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:41:29 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Actually why would you watch The Plan in between the two mutiny episodes?


Eps 15 and 16 aren't the mutiny eps.


Ep 15 is The Oath
Ep 16 is Blood on the Scales


4.15 No Exit http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993916/

4.16 Deadlock http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993917/


As you will have noted above I see what the guy did. Razor was actually episodes one and two of season 4.


But its not what the guy did, they're actually listed on IMDb as such.

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 1932
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:47:59 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Actually why would you watch The Plan in between the two mutiny episodes?


Eps 15 and 16 aren't the mutiny eps.


Ep 15 is The Oath
Ep 16 is Blood on the Scales


4.15 No Exit http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993916/

4.16 Deadlock http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993917/


As you will have noted above I see what the guy did. Razor was actually episodes one and two of season 4.


But its not what the guy did, they're actually listed on IMDb as such.


And the actual episode guide has them as this

http://www.syfy.com/battlestar/episodes/season/4/episode/401/razor

1. Razor
2. He That Believeth in Me
3. Six of One
4. The Ties That Bind
5. Escape Velocity
6. The Road Less Traveled
7. Faith
8. Guess What's Coming to Dinner?
9. Sine Qua Non
10.The Hub
11. Revelations
12. Sometimes a Great Notion
13. A Disquiet Follows My Soul
14. The Oath
15. Blood on the Scales
16. No Exit
17. Deadlock

Like I say, if you take Razor away (which was actually episodes 1/2) then it makes sense what he was saying, and how imdb has done it.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 1933
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 2/7/2012 8:52:06 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
And to be honest I think the order in which they were made is the best order - mostly because they were evolving the stories as they went along.

Much like The Plan, I am not a huge fan of Razor. They are place holder movies, which don't add much to the overall arc. Even the thing about Kara is repeated in the series proper.

In fact you lose the "Kara is back WTF!" of season 3 if you know she hasn't accomplished the prophecy bit because you watched Razor at the end of season 2.

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 1934
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 12:05:44 AM   
Saltire


Posts: 1973
Joined: 5/7/2011
From: Dundee
An irk for me on this series - Michelle-bleedin-Forbes!!!

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Post #: 1935
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 12:41:41 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

And to be honest I think the order in which they were made is the best order - mostly because they were evolving the stories as they went along.

Much like The Plan, I am not a huge fan of Razor. They are place holder movies, which don't add much to the overall arc. Even the thing about Kara is repeated in the series proper.

In fact you lose the "Kara is back WTF!" of season 3 if you know she hasn't accomplished the prophecy bit because you watched Razor at the end of season 2.


This isn't true, Razor takes place between the post-attack days of Pegasus and the timeline just before New Caprica, that's why it should be viewed towards the end of S2 (between 17 and 18) which makes sense as that's when its set. There's no spoilers relating to the prophecy in it, maybe you're mixing it up with another ep.


Razor tells us that Kara Thrace will bring mankind to its end. Clearly she hasn't done that in the season 3 episode where she is killed.

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.

Post #: 1936
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 12:45:03 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
This line in fact - "Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her."



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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 1937
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 12:51:03 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Just had a quick look back thought the first few pages and realised holy crap I had been posting in this thread for six years....

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 1938
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 1:08:12 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Of course but that line doesn't really mean anything at that stage other than some spooky utterance's by a batshit Hybrid. The series is full of random foreboding that does/doesn't come true and will have no real significance to someone watching it for the first time.


There is "the river of six touches the snake in the sun" which is vague.

and there is " Explicit Character will do so and so" which is so shocking that the hero dies in an attempt to warn other characters. It is a big neon sign saying important future plot point.

Razor may in the timeline take place in season 2, but it is written post season 3 and under the shadow of season 4. Razor works best when you see Kara has returned, and then you get this warning that she may do more harm than good - it gives the shock of season 3 finale a bigger jolt.

I always remember Coppola rearranged the Godfather into the actual timeline - the results were a mess. While if you are watching the show again, it is fine to put Razor in there, for first time viewers I would totally not recommend throwing it in between two season 2 episodes.


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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.

Post #: 1939
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 1:09:29 AM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

http://thunderpeel2001.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/battlestar-galactica-viewing-order.html

This is the order I watched all the Eps, including the specials and webisodes on my second go and it worked perfectly.



Yeah, I never saw a problem when we watched them like that, Spalds and followed it all fine too.


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Post #: 1940
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 1:13:25 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Well thats fine for you guys. Great. But if I had a friend who asked me the viewing order (actually I think someone in this thread once asked me to lay it out for them) I would insist on Razor not being watched as part of season 2. Not everyone is the same, and just the risk of diluting the power of the season 3 finale would be enough for me to recommend watching Razor between 3 and 4.

That is the point I am making. It is noticeable when the complete Blu Ray set was released, Razor was still put in with the season 4 boxset.

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 1941
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 12:10:44 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4424
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor
quote:

ORIGINAL: NinjaShortbread212

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

http://thunderpeel2001.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/battlestar-galactica-viewing-order.html

This is the order I watched all the Eps, including the specials and webisodes on my second go and it worked perfectly.



Yeah, I never saw a problem when we watched them like that, Spalds and followed it all fine too.



On your first watch?

Also, chronologically there's no problem; but thematically it just seems a little odd to me.

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Post #: 1942
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 12:36:39 PM   
indysgill


Posts: 5137
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: relic hunting
I just got my first Galactica Blu Ray in the post from Love Film!

Hope they actually send them in order.

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Post #: 1943
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 12:41:44 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4424
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor
Enjoy!

So say we all.

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Post #: 1944
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 1:16:42 PM   
NinjaShortbread212


Posts: 4542
Joined: 26/4/2011
From: Edinburger, Scottyland
quote:

ORIGINAL: jcthefirst

quote:

ORIGINAL: NinjaShortbread212

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

http://thunderpeel2001.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/battlestar-galactica-viewing-order.html

This is the order I watched all the Eps, including the specials and webisodes on my second go and it worked perfectly.



Yeah, I never saw a problem when we watched them like that, Spalds and followed it all fine too.



On your first watch?

Also, chronologically there's no problem; but thematically it just seems a little odd to me.



Yep, first watch. However, if this is wrong, it's all Spaldy's fault!


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Post #: 1945
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 6:11:06 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: NinjaShortbread212

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcthefirst

quote:

ORIGINAL: NinjaShortbread212

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

http://thunderpeel2001.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/battlestar-galactica-viewing-order.html

This is the order I watched all the Eps, including the specials and webisodes on my second go and it worked perfectly.



Yeah, I never saw a problem when we watched them like that, Spalds and followed it all fine too.



On your first watch?

Also, chronologically there's no problem; but thematically it just seems a little odd to me.



Yep, first watch. However, if this is wrong, it's all Spaldy's fault!



It isn't , its chronological and therefore fits in with the narrative.


_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to NinjaShortbread212)
Post #: 1946
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 7:36:55 PM   
the anomaly


Posts: 6423
Joined: 20/6/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
Some of your questions are left out there to be answered by yourself. But just because the word "God" is used, doesn't mean it is literally God.

And as for the angels - they are no different really to the Monliths of 2001 - guiding mankind at certain key points.

By the by - about Kara - she died in that werid formatation - and what came back was the HeadCharacter that HeadSix and HeadBalter were. What they are is up to you really. I don't really feel like they needed to be explained more than they were - the point was that even with the very human events on the ships, there is a grander scheme in the galaxy which we are only a small part of.



Fair enough. I'm more annoyed about Kara rather than the Caprica six and Gaius vision thingys.

I'm going to miss it!

P.S - Razor is indeed in the season four case in the Blueray boxset. So I watched it then ... it made sense. (Fight FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!)

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 1947
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 3/7/2012 10:49:19 PM   
paul_ie86


Posts: 11422
Joined: 4/1/2007
From: Chelsea Hotel #2
I think you're being a bit too literal here Spaldron. It just seems foolish to just slavishly follow the chronological events of the series. If Moore wanted us to watch them Razor in S2 he probably would have put it there. I haven't seen The Plan so I can't comment on that.

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(in reply to the anomaly)
Post #: 1948
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 4/7/2012 12:08:43 AM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair
How is it foolish to watch a series in its correct chronological order? I honestly cant see the purpose of watching Razor or The Plan out of the sequence in which they're set, and having done precisely that on my first viewing I know from experience that they took me right out of the story and you end up losing a lot of the pace built up in previous eps. And as for The Plan I simply don't see any point in watching it after the final ep, why bother?

Having now viewed the series properly in its correct order I can honestly say this is the best and most effective way to enjoy the story and I plan to watch it this way from now on.

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(in reply to paul_ie86)
Post #: 1949
RE: Battlestar Galactica: Final Season - 4/7/2012 9:09:34 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Great Spald!

I would still insist on people watching Razor in broadcast order.

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(in reply to Spaldron)
Post #: 1950
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