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RE: The Dark Knight Rises

 
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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 12:58:12 PM   
jon5000


Posts: 1089
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA

quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine


quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm actually shocked, and a little disheartened, with the amount of criticism it's getting.

There seems to be one positive review in every ten posted. I really don't understand why everyone wishes to pick apart every minor detail based on the plausibility of something really being able to happen.

It's a superhero film.

People expected far too much, It's clear to see now, that was the case. I've said this on here before but I was fully aware there would be clunky moments and so on. Hell, BB and TDK has many of them why would Rises fare any different?
It's just what happens with huge blockbuster film making, some minor things will get neglected, but come on, It's a good solid film and a fitting ending. People should watch it again and this time, maybe not expect the be all and end all of cinema and watch it for what it is; the third installment of a fantastic superhero trilogy.


That's a bizarre argument to make!

Watch the film again with lower expectations?

I think Hood_Man got it right in the post above. It wasn't a terrible film, but as admirers of Nolan's previous Batman films and indeed all of his films thus far, we feel this film has a huge amount wrong with it that just seem so un-Nolan-like, if you will. Sub-par character development, clunky script writing, poor pacing. It was just very off from his usual standards. He's so regarded as having very strong creative discipline and standards, he just seems to have lowered himself here, if anything. Maybe success has got to him. I'm still puzzled as to what made him personally hire Zack Snyder to direct Superman also, but that's a separate issue!

I don't think the problems with the film are audience's fault for having high expectations! You're effectively asking us to allow it to be sub par? What kind of argument is that!


Everything I have marked in bold. Could you elaborate slightly please?

Character development - What's the issue here? Did we all want an extra half an hour explaining Selina Kyle or Holly Robinson or whoever so then we could take issue of why he dedicated so much of the film to her/them? I don't understand which characters were weak in development. I knew exactly what everyone's roles were and this didn't impede on the enjoyment nor the story development.

Poor Pacing - I'll admit the occupation of Gotham was it's weakest point, it felt rushed and I didn't really get to grips with the scale and time frame of it I never felt like Gotham was in that much trouble. Should have been more inclusion of how the people of the city were dealing with a four month rule under a terrorist.

Clunky script writing - What? as appose to the Arthur Miller stature of the previous two? Do me a favour, they are all slightly clunky dialogue wise. Don't sugarcoat the others.



With pleasure,

Sub par character development. Okay, you have Bruce Wayne/Batman at the core. That worked fine, Christian Bale was superb. But other characters such as Miranda Tate, Mathew Modine's character and Bane were just completely off for me. It was almost as if Nolan was too quick with their development, or didn't have enough patience to allow them to bed into the narrative. This was most certainly true of Modine's character where you start to wonder, why is he even there? Could his role in the narrative not have been given to a character we already know? It just became flabby. And Bane/Miranda Tate. Well, I had so many problems with that relationship, but getting at the character development and the way they were dealt with on screen, was in my opinion very poor for Nolan. The most awkward bit was having Alfred apparently knowing exactly who Bane is/where he's come from early on the film. That was terribly clunky, a was almost putting my hands in my head thinking 'show it, don't tell it.' Which is bizarre for Nolan as I've previously said he's normally so creatively disciplined. Bane started out quite ominously, which I quite liked. But then Nolan - I think perhaps wrongly influenced by the Romantic idea of the revolutionary - turned Bane into this kind of Marxist liberator, which to me felt jarring. I think his character has clearer and more threatening motivation as he was in the comics with his kind of 'I'm going to be the boss... I view Gotham as my prison.' mentality. And then exposing him as a caring friend to Talia was just awful, completely undermined him as a threat. Suddenly he sheds tears? Please. And having Miranda Tate as this forced love interest on Bruce, it was just a bit too obvious what her role was for me because of her character's chunkiness. I think Selina Kyle and her should have been one shadowy femme fatale character, to be honest. I like what Nolan was trying to do with Selina Kyle as this untrustworthy person in Bruce's life but she needed more screen time for it to bed in. Fuck the twist at the end with Talia being behind it all - let's just have Bane as the main threat. Simple character is often so much more engaging and ultimately fulfilling. All these off shots, twists and turns just contrive what they stand for. They cease to become relatable archetypes and become more contrived plot devices. You could see why Miranda Tate was there, and that's the problem. I felt this was true in Lord of The Rings with many characters also, their roles were just too obvious in regard to what function they serve to the plot. It felt like they'd been written rather than having them as pure and relatable people in the story. I wasn't bothered in the slightest when Bane, Foley or Miranda died. Good or bad.

Poor Pacing. Right, this one is true of a lot of Nolan's films for me, but he really doesn't let the film breathe for any moment of time. It's just plot, character, plot, character, event. You never get that needed emotional pause. And even when you do get one they're never long enough for me. Bane's threat on the city needed a lot more time to bed to be truly worrying. Instead of just having Gordon's men turn up and 'discover' it all going on underground. Why not have more targeted attacks on various city institutions? Whispers of a masked man around the city. Let's have Batman do some detective work instead of Alfred telling him who Bane is and how he was ex-communicated by the League of Shadows. Let's have Batman discover that for himself. It would have worked far better instead of having it all happen in the first 40 or so minutes. And then there's Bruce's incarceration. Aside from the obvious flaws in the time it takes for a vertebra to heal... the whole idea was so rushed it became ineffective. Nolan has said he was influenced by another revolutionary tale, Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities, and you can see how this plot thread was almost an homage to that - but as fantastically Romantic as the idea is, it just didn't work at all. It made it hopelessly complex. The prison should have been in the sewers beneath Gotham or even Blackgate itself. The breaking out of prisoners from Blackgate worked well as another nod to The French Revolution as a kind of Storming-of-the-Bastile which kind of worked, but why not keep it all within Gotham? Make it relevant to the threat of the city being like a facist state. Instead I was just left wondering how on earth Bruce got back to Gotham if it was cut off by ice?!

Clunky scriptwriting. Well I think this has been true of some aspects of the previous films, but on the whole I think the scriptwriting in those films was better. There were moments of pure plot-dumping in Begins - 'We've had a microwave emitter stolen!' But this film was full of them. Suddenly Bane can be researched by Alfred on the computer can he? And there's lots of information about the highly secretive society The League of Shadows just lying around on there? Possibly on the internet? It just felt so clunky and plot-dumpy. And the other conversation between Bruce and Alfred where Alfred explains he burnt the letter from Rachel to Dent. That felt so random to me. That could have been far greater woven into the story without having a separate scene for it. 'Oh hi, we're on the stairs reminding the audience about the last film.' Let's have Selina Kyle asked who Rachel is or something. In the end just having Bruce walking off like some sad child. It just lost all emotional resonance for me again because it felt like plot-dumping. It should have been far more seamless. The same was true of the nuclear fusion project thing with Fox. It was just like 'Oh, now we need to talk about this part of the plot,' which is a shame as Nolan's been so clever at weaving things seamlessly in the previous films. The introduction of Dent in the TDK was so well handled. We were thrown into it, Dent in court with Maroni. Two characters dealt with seamlessly. Not Alfred standing there explaining to Bruce who Dent is and where he's come from. Urgh, so many moments like that.

I'll probably come up with some more.


(in reply to justfontaine)
Post #: 12031
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 3:12:15 PM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 799
Joined: 2/9/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez


quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm posting in here as this is where the sane, patient and all round logical folk post. That review thread is like twitter but a thousand times worse and all in one thread.

I saw it on the Manchester IMAX last night. Good lord, It was some experience. I felt mentally exhausted after it. Here is my issue; and it's not with the film itself. *SPOILERS* Maybe not in this thread, but a common thought that seems to be building momentum on forums and so on is that people seem disappointed Batman didn't die? Are you kidding me?

This is like the Tony Soprano syndrome *SPOILERS FOR SOPRANOS* where at the end of the show people were almost angry there was no on screen death or death at all for Tony. I recall David Chase saying something along the lines of how sick he felt it that people could root for a character for seven years and then want him to die in the final five minutes.

I feel the same in regards to The Dark Knight himself. Why did people want Bruce to die so badly? He has been their hero for three fantastic films and then people wanted his blood for some sort of warped satisfaction? I felt we had perfect closure with the ending. Whether people see it as an ambiguous Inception nod is a different debate all together (He is alive though ) Bruce deserves to live his life away from the chaos of what once was. Nolan knows and appreciates the character in this way as I'm sure many of us do.

I loved the film to be honest. I've seen a fair few criticisms. What did people actually expect? The greatest film of all time? BB and TDK have their flaws. I was aware of this and I went into TDKR fully expecting a few minor things here and there but nothing as major to take away my enjoyment from the film itself and what has been a truly exceptional handling of a difficult character and universe.

Yeah Bane's voice was at times difficult to comprehend... so what? We all knew what he was doing and what his objectives were, a line here and there is hardly detrimental and you know, If it was in reality someone was talking through that mask, I bet you wouldn't fully understand them all the time anyway, It's just the complexities and short comings that come with wearing a metal mask/respirator over your face. I admired the scale of it greatly, some of the shots of Gotham randomly exploding in paces was stunning. I feel it's flaws are in it's ambition. It attempts a lot and maybe, yeah it's not all perfect and some parts don't gel together as well as everyone wanted them too... but neither was TDK perfect and now people look on it as a masterpiece. Give Rises a second and third viewing. We will all come to appreciate it's colossal achievement in due time.




This sums up my feelings pretty much too, especially the bit in Bold.


I don't think that is very fair, as it suggests that criticisms of the film are from expecting too much rather from having genuine issues with some parts of it. Very few people outright dislike it - but some, including myself, just think it is very messy indeed. Much more than the previous two films to be honest.


I'm not saying you've got no right to be dissapointed, you've every right in the world to feel the way you feel, but I don't feel the same way.

Indeed some people have genuine issues and expressed them calmly and eruditely, but other people seem to have gone in determined not to enjoy it and in doing so (as I said in the reviews thread) have forgotten that to enjoy any type of fiction, you need to be able to suspend your (dis)belief.

I'd say in some ways it's probably Nolans least accomplished film, but that's because IMO his standards are so high. For me it was still a fantastic ride and I loved every minute.

No doubt after a couple more viewings I will find more faults.

SPOLERS AHEAD

Cottilard's death scene I have to agree with those who said it was really pretty poor for her high standards, Juno Temple's character (see can't even remember her name) was totally superfluous, some of the sound mixing was way off (music much too loud) but these things aren't enough to have spoiled the film for me.

< Message edited by Discodez -- 23/7/2012 3:20:47 PM >

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 12032
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 3:31:25 PM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 799
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez

quote:

- HOLY PLOT-HOLE, BATMAN! - Nolan and his brother had obviously written themselves in to a corner with the whole auto-pilot thing on 'The Bat' and had to have that scene at the end with Fox and the engineers explaining that the auto-pilot had been fixed....huh? How exactly did they recover the vehicle from A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION? This is a bad case of setting up a plot-thread and not being able to resolve it without resorting to the ridiculous.


Easy, Autopilot on, drop bomb, keep flying, eject, bomb explodes, but vehicle and batman are miles away. Also it's a Neutron bomb, which i believe were designed to have a less destructive blast wave, leaving vehicles and buildings less damaged.


This doesn't make sense. Why would the autopilot be necessary if Batman stayed inside anyway?


OK then no need for autopilot (but it needed to have been switched on for Fox and his engineers to discover it was working yes?).

I really don't want to get into this, wish I'd not bothered.

As I've said elsewhere, some seem to have gone in to this film in particular unwilling to suspend their (dis)belief.

(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 12033
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 3:44:18 PM   
Rob


Posts: 2473
Joined: 30/9/2005
My thoughts were there were more than one Bat vehicle.

"Yes Mr Wayne it comes in black" would indicate that was the case. Also it's referred to as a software patch meaning the Autopilot facility could have been downloaded to all Bats.

If that's the case Batman flies over the ocean, engages autopilot, ejects, bomb explodes (clearly more than 6 miles away and underwater ), everyone wins, Bruce survives...easy peasy.

Why didn't Bane use the Bat in that case - no idea

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Post #: 12034
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 3:58:04 PM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 799
Joined: 2/9/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob

My thoughts were there were more than one Bat vehicle.

"Yes Mr Wayne it comes in black" would indicate that was the case. Also it's referred to as a software patch meaning the Autopilot facility could have been downloaded to all Bats.

If that's the case Batman flies over the ocean, engages autopilot, ejects, bomb explodes (clearly more than 6 miles away and underwater ), everyone wins, Bruce survives...easy peasy.

Why didn't Bane use the Bat in that case - no idea


because it was hidden away in the batcave, not in the applied sciences bunker at Wayne industries

(in reply to Rob)
Post #: 12035
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 4:02:32 PM   
Rob


Posts: 2473
Joined: 30/9/2005
Yeah but I mean the one Bruce flies was destroyed and the engineers were working on another one that hadn't been used (and was stored in applied science) but had had the autopilot patch downloaded to it.

It depends which plot hole bothers you more; the fact that in can withstand a nuclear blast or that Bane decided he didn't want to use it (although if memory serves it was behind yet another door so perhaps he just didn't see it)

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Post #: 12036
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 4:06:39 PM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 799
Joined: 2/9/2010
Oh I see, I assumed it (the one at the end) was the same one that Batman flew away with and it had been recovered by Fox.

(in reply to Rob)
Post #: 12037
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 4:07:12 PM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1177
Joined: 18/10/2006
From: The Womb
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob

Yeah but I mean the one Bruce flies was destroyed and the engineers were working on another one that hadn't been used (and was stored in applied science) but had had the autopilot patch downloaded to it.

It depends which plot hole bothers you more; the fact that in can withstand a nuclear blast or that Bane decided he didn't want to use it (although if memory serves it was behind yet another door so perhaps he just didn't see it)


Considering Bane didn't use any aircraft (GPD Helecopters etc) maybe there was a no fly zone? Of course that's a hell of a reach to plug a plot hole

< Message edited by Titanm21 -- 23/7/2012 4:13:57 PM >


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Post #: 12038
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 4:12:09 PM   
Rob


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Joined: 30/9/2005
Works for me, let's go with that.

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Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.

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Post #: 12039
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 7:46:55 PM   
Spaldron


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I'd just like to say goodbye to this thread, its been fun.

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Post #: 12040
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 8:03:25 PM   
jon5000


Posts: 1089
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

I'd just like to say goodbye to this thread, its been fun.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__2t2NW400jo/S8hF8MlAB1I/AAAAAAAAADo/W-RT-Oax_3c/s320/candle.gif



It's going to be fun discovering other parts of the forum, that's for sure.

Places I never even knew existed...

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Post #: 12041
The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 8:42:51 PM   
Alistair

 

Posts: 2397
Joined: 1/10/2005
This is turning it to one of those ridiculous threads where everyone is trying to justify their own feelings on the film. Why is it when someone posts a review someone else has to come along and criticise that person's opinion? After many years as part of the online film community I still don't understand it. I'll say it again: If you liked it, great. Who cares? I don't. And I also don't care if you didn't like it.

I saw it a second time on Sunday and I must admit that I am VERY impressed with certain aspects of the film. Bale's acting is astonishing in it. He is really brilliant. Tom Hardy gives a great performance too, but I just didn't find Bane to be that successful a villain. I still think the action was a bit 'meh', and the film lacked any 'WHOA!' moments in my opinion.

My opinion at this moment in time (for anyone who cares): It's a GOOD film, nothing more. In my opinion. Thank you.

I have enjoyed this thread very much, but like Spaldron above I shall not be returning to read any more. Thanks to all of those who entertained and participated in great discussion over the last few months, it's been a pleasure. See you, hopefully, on the Superman thread....!

< Message edited by Alistair -- 23/7/2012 8:46:46 PM >


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Post #: 12042
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 10:24:18 PM   
Rgirvan44


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From: Punishment Park
Where are people criticising each other for liking/not liking the film? There is a difference between debating the film and actually telling someone that their opinion doesn't count.

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Post #: 12043
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 24/7/2012 9:20:46 AM   
pete_traynor


Posts: 3010
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From: Balboa Towers, Balboa Island, CA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

I saw it a second time on Sunday and I must admit that I am VERY impressed with certain aspects of the film. Bale's acting is astonishing in it. He is really brilliant. Tom Hardy gives a great performance too, but I just didn't find Bane to be that successful a villain. I still think the action was a bit 'meh', and the film lacked any 'WHOA!' moments in my opinion.

My opinion at this moment in time (for anyone who cares): It's a GOOD film, nothing more. In my opinion. Thank you.



Dropped in for a final look at the thread and to give reactions, having seen it in IMAX last night. But no need, Alistair has hit the nail on the head for me and agree 100%. Nothing more to add in a spoiler free thread.

See you all in the MoS thread!


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Post #: 12044
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 24/7/2012 10:05:26 AM   
Wild about Wilder


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Wonder how much more impressive Bane's character would've been had they introduced The Venom toxin that he uses.

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Post #: 12045
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 24/7/2012 10:16:17 AM   
Harry Tuttle


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From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild about Wilder

Wonder how much more impressive Bane's character would've been had they introduced The Venom toxin that he uses.


I think that would have ruined it myself. The venom formula has no place in Nolan's universe. It would have been hokey as hell.

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Post #: 12046
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 7:56:29 AM   
Dirk Miggler


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Was meant to see TDKR fri but still not seen it, the wife gave birth to our first child that same day so not exactly a bad reason to miss a booking ! Haven't read any reviews other than Empire, I dare not go near the review section. What's the general consensus on the boards then ? Does it live up to the hype ?

< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 25/7/2012 7:57:18 AM >

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Post #: 12047
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 10:43:49 AM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2351
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From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

Was meant to see TDKR fri but still not seen it, the wife gave birth to our first child that same day so not exactly a bad reason to miss a booking ! Haven't read any reviews other than Empire, I dare not go near the review section. What's the general consensus on the boards then ? Does it live up to the hype ?


Congrats on the birth of your child Dirk!

As for the film.It is awesome but certain aspects of it have divided people.My advice would be to stay out of even this thread as many will be discussing what happens in any future Bat films here so spoilers will be plenty.

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Post #: 12048
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 26/7/2012 8:42:50 AM   
mattjtemp


Posts: 213
Joined: 30/9/2005
I thought it fitted it's universe perfectly, I thought the ending was inspired, and what I particularly liked was it's links to the first, it felt like a true trilogy. Performance wise there wasn't anything that matched Ledger, but then isn't that how it should be. Neeson, Murphy, Eckhart, Hardy, Hathaway have all done really well, great interpretations.

Flaws, well, like Dark Knight, it is a bit wonky on pacing, parts feel rushed when others linger too long, only the first had a really tight structure but then that has a few corny moments, I'm more than able to overlook these points.

Key part in all 3 that sets it apart is some of the lines, and DKR had those, Bane's "Do you feel like you are in charge" sent tingles.

Plus everyone saying it was too depressing when it has the funniest line of the series "What a lovely voice".

Little touch but I loved seeing the monorail in an ariel shot as my niggle from the second was it felt too separate as a city and this made it feel more vast yet connected.

Most negative reviews seem to be from people who preferred the second to the first, so it's odd when hearing a criticism of structure or pacing as the two seem very similar, I wonder if really people just plain miss the joker.

I read Harry Knowles review, very funny, the guy is such a narcissistic oaf, the impotent raging of someone who mixes up watching a lot of films with knowing anything about films.

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Post #: 12049
KnightWing - 26/7/2012 10:12:45 AM   
Macavity


Posts: 472
Joined: 14/4/2006
Really enjoyed it. It certainly lacks the energy Heath Ledger brought to The Dark Knight but is very good regardless.

SPOILERS TO FOLLOW.

Levitt was excellent and I'd love to see future installments based on Nightwing. The 'Hot Head' taking on Riddler would be a great watch. It'd be great for Bale to return really washed up in a 5th entry (The Dark Knight Returns?).

< Message edited by Macavity -- 26/7/2012 1:00:12 PM >

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Post #: 12050
RE: KnightWing - 26/7/2012 2:13:04 PM   
mattjtemp


Posts: 213
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macavity
It'd be great for Bale to return really washed up in a 5th entry (The Dark Knight Returns?).


Wasn't that what we just had? Aren't the films taking rom 'Batman Year One','The Long Halloween', 'Knightfall', and 'The Dark Knight Returns'. Plus probably a couple of others I'm not familiar with.


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Post #: 12051
RE: KnightWing - 26/7/2012 2:23:23 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 6989
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mattjtemp


quote:

ORIGINAL: Macavity
It'd be great for Bale to return really washed up in a 5th entry (The Dark Knight Returns?).


Wasn't that what we just had? Aren't the films taking rom 'Batman Year One','The Long Halloween', 'Knightfall', and 'The Dark Knight Returns'. Plus probably a couple of others I'm not familiar with.




spoiler











with 'no man's land' thrown in.

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Post #: 12052
RE: KnightWing - 26/7/2012 2:56:47 PM   
mattjtemp


Posts: 213
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Oh I'll check that one out too.

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Post #: 12053
RE: KnightWing - 26/7/2012 3:04:37 PM   
Woger


Posts: 3815
Joined: 30/9/2005
Saw it last night, bloody loved it. Some bits were probably a bit more contrived than they had to be, like Selena kidnapping the Congressmam. I thought Alfred was away too long and I loved the ending, so glad I didn't get it spoiled.
Just read some of Harry the twats review at AICN, worst. review. ever.

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Post #: 12054
RE: KnightWing - 26/7/2012 4:58:22 PM   
Macavity


Posts: 472
Joined: 14/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: mattjtemp


quote:

ORIGINAL: Macavity
It'd be great for Bale to return really washed up in a 5th entry (The Dark Knight Returns?).


Wasn't that what we just had? Aren't the films taking rom 'Batman Year One','The Long Halloween', 'Knightfall', and 'The Dark Knight Returns'. Plus probably a couple of others I'm not familiar with.




I guess so. There was a fair chunk of material absent.

(in reply to mattjtemp)
Post #: 12055
RE: KnightWing - 26/7/2012 5:11:59 PM   
Wild about Wilder


Posts: 1657
Joined: 9/4/2010
From: Hertfordshire
Plus Bats was in his 50s-60s & built like a FUCKING BRICK SHITHOUSE! I MEAN HE WAS HUGEEEE!
(Better start pumping Iron now Christian)

< Message edited by Wild about Wilder -- 26/7/2012 5:12:30 PM >

(in reply to Macavity)
Post #: 12056
RE: KnightWing - 27/7/2012 3:05:25 AM   
Private Hudson


Posts: 1839
Joined: 30/9/2005
Just back and I enjoyed it, though it is easily the weakest of Nolan's trilogy (BB is the best!).

I agree about how Bane got diluted... there was no pay-off. A cardinal sin in moviemaking.

There was far too much exposition and at least 30 mins could have been cut without making a dent in the movie. Plus the plane bit at the start was below par 007....

It lacked wit and imagination which was present in BB and TDK.

_____________________________

Watch my spoof movie of FULL METAL JACKET here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCGRWVvM-Zo&feature=plcp&context=C31ca298UDOEgsToPDskJ4_UorjolrWTaxEGMj5GO0

(in reply to Wild about Wilder)
Post #: 12057
RE: KnightWing - 27/7/2012 11:12:48 AM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1894
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
Wasn't the payoff Han Solo/Catwoman returns despite considering such action probably suicidal, to take out Vader/Bane just as he is about to to kill Luke/Batman, allowing Luke/Batman to continue flying around until he is able to destroy the Death Star/Spherical Bomb?

Clever, canny and cheeky old Nolan...

Three character arcs have their payoff in this moment. Catwoman is a better person than she believes herself to be...Batman, even facing death wouldn't kill Bane (take that Joker, you were wrong, he will never break his one rule) and Bane, is basically a clever but dangerous muzzled attack dog and gets put down like one.

Nolan builds it all up to the point where Catwoman kills Bane and that's the single 'point of catharsis'. for all three main costumed characters that allows the day to be saved (they are all proving the true nature of their characters, Catwoman less selfish than she claims, Bane just a murderous thug under all the affectations, Bruce unbreakable in his convictions, then Bang!!! tension blown away, all three now, simultaneously, at the end of their journeys re character development/arc). It's all there

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 27/7/2012 1:26:26 PM >


_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to Private Hudson)
Post #: 12058
RE: KnightWing - 27/7/2012 5:30:56 PM   
Private Hudson


Posts: 1839
Joined: 30/9/2005
Batman had to beat Bane!

_____________________________

Watch my spoof movie of FULL METAL JACKET here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCGRWVvM-Zo&feature=plcp&context=C31ca298UDOEgsToPDskJ4_UorjolrWTaxEGMj5GO0

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 12059
RE: KnightWing - 27/7/2012 6:08:17 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1894
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
He had him, totally at his mercy, until Bane's female cohort stabbed him, then Batman's female cohort killed Bane. No disgrace to the hero there. He won the actual stand up fight, and Bane wasn't going to be any threat to him, without the whole stabbing/betrayal thing.

As well as character arc stuff, there were also other payoffs in the build up to Catwoman killing Bane:

"If someone gets in the way of true justice, you just walk up behind them, and stab them in the heart" (R'as Al Ghul's daughter walked up behind Batman and stabbed him, the in the heart' part of the payoff being her making him care for her then betraying him)

I'm sure I'm not the only one who ever thought, "Yeah, he's got the armour and all, but wouldn't someone just shoot him in the exposed mouth area and fuck him right up?" and that's exactly what Bane was about to do.










< Message edited by jobloffski -- 28/7/2012 10:05:15 AM >


_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to Private Hudson)
Post #: 12060
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