quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

EXTRAORDINARY SPOILERS BELOW...!!!!

Evening all

So, like most it seems, I haven't stopped thinking about the film since I saw it (only a few hours ago). I have held off posting an adrenaline-induced review, so I've calmed down a bit and thought I'd share my initial thoughts (I'll be seeing it again tomorrow, so will have a better overall view of the film by the end of that particular screening, I think).

I've just finished off a bottle of Cobra, so apologies if there are any typos. I can't drink alcohol to save my life

So....the review:

Heath Ledger. The Joker. A character who's effect on 'The Dark Knight is only now becoming significantly apparent to me. I watched TDK last night so it's very fresh in my mind, and while I fully realize how superb the film is, and how great Ledger is, I didn't quite comprehend his overall performance until watching Rises.

See, the things is - Nolan's approach to Batman has been very serious. There's some light relief from Michael Caine's Alfred, and the interplay between him and Bruce (and also Lucius Fox) has always brought a welcome light tone to the drama and darkness. But that is all but gone in Rises. Even though the Joker was a violent, disturbing villain, the way Ledger played the character had a massive counter-balancing affect on 'The Dark Knight' as a whole. He was funny, and charismatic. A truly breathtaking character when you stop and think about it - A bad guy, (much like Darth Vader of the original Star Wars trilogy), that you want to see more and more of because of that invisible something that they bring to the film.

I'm just making the point that the dramatic tone set by TDK (which naturally flowed in to TDKR) was balanced by the Joker. Now that this character is taken out of the equation the balance is off. There's just too much darkness, despair and dread. It's all well and good having these things in a Batman film, but without relief from it the tone is somewhat...unbalanced.

True, Batman Begins didn't have the Joker but then it was deeply focused on Batman's origin, and it certainly didn't need a character like the Joker to distract from it. Nolan, in returning to the Batman universe, had no choice but to turn to a new villain and Bane just doesn't work in my opinion. The character was just...odd. I just can't explain it properly. I think some of it is to do with the fact that I genuinely couldn't understand him a lot of the time. The soundtrack mix was also TOO LOUD, so this certainly didn't help the matter.

I'm not going to natter on any more as I've said what was mainly on my mind, but here's a few points I'd like to make:

- Bale was great. Best he's ever been.

- Caine was the best thing in the film, next to Bale. A fantastic performance.

- Batman had less screen time than some supporting characters. This is truly unbelievable.

- Prison scene wasn't as powerful as I'd hoped. Maybe, once again, it was the VERY LOUD sound mix.

- The final shot of Alfred in Florence should not have cut to Bruce. It should have been left to the audience's imagination and would have been a more thought-provoking ending.

- HOLY PLOT-HOLE, BATMAN! - Nolan and his brother had obviously written themselves in to a corner with the whole auto-pilot thing on 'The Bat' and had to have that scene at the end with Fox and the engineers explaining that the auto-pilot had been fixed....huh? How exactly did they recover the vehicle from A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION? This is a bad case of setting up a plot-thread and not being able to resolve it without resorting to the ridiculous.

- Bane VS Batman. Hard to watch. Tense, violent, awful. A great scene...and to see Bane lifting Batman in to the air was....omg!

To summarise: I think it's the weakest film of the three, by a long way. I felt as bit deflated when the credits rolled. There's shimmers of greatness in the film, but overall it feels weak. And the script was actually quite poor. Why was Modine's character in this film? Why did he have more screen-time than, y' know, BATMAN?

I hate being negative towards films, and I hate to have to admit to having a negative feeling toward a film I have felt so passionate about for a long time. But that's the way I feel. It's just a film, when all is said and done.

Batman Begins was a brilliant beginning to the series and The Dark Knight went to interesting, dramatic places. Rises does too, but they don't work as successfully as what came before.

6/10.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

You guys should come into the Fav Film thread. I am very much along the same lines as both of you - wrote a big old review in there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wharto15
I think most people's expectations have expected the film to be akin to the second coming or something

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coyleone

So is there anyone on here that actually liked it? I've not seen it yet (still extremely excited) but on another forum I frequent people are raving about it, and I come on here and it's mostly negative from what I've read in this thread. There's no way I'm going into the review thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coyleone

So is there anyone on here that actually liked it? I've not seen it yet (still extremely excited) but on another forum I frequent people are raving about it, and I come on here and it's mostly negative from what I've read in this thread. There's no way I'm going into the review thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK3n5Z-g_w

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK3n5Z-g_w

quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm posting in here as this is where the sane, patient and all round logical folk post. That review thread is like twitter but a thousand times worse and all in one thread.

I saw it on the Manchester IMAX last night. Good lord, It was some experience. I felt mentally exhausted after it. Here is my issue; and it's not with the film itself. *SPOILERS* Maybe not in this thread, but a common thought that seems to be building momentum on forums and so on is that people seem disappointed Batman didn't die? Are you kidding me?

This is like the Tony Soprano syndrome *SPOILERS FOR SOPRANOS* where at the end of the show people were almost angry there was no on screen death or death at all for Tony. I recall David Chase saying something along the lines of how sick he felt it that people could root for a character for seven years and then want him to die in the final five minutes.

I feel the same in regards to The Dark Knight himself. Why did people want Bruce to die so badly? He has been their hero for three fantastic films and then people wanted his blood for some sort of warped satisfaction? I felt we had perfect closure with the ending. Whether people see it as an ambiguous Inception nod is a different debate all together (He is alive though ) Bruce deserves to live his life away from the chaos of what once was. Nolan knows and appreciates the character in this way as I'm sure many of us do.

I loved the film to be honest. I've seen a fair few criticisms. What did people actually expect? The greatest film of all time? BB and TDK have their flaws. I was aware of this and I went into TDKR fully expecting a few minor things here and there but nothing as major to take away my enjoyment from the film itself and what has been a truly exceptional handling of a difficult character and universe.

Yeah Bane's voice was at times difficult to comprehend... so what? We all knew what he was doing and what his objectives were, a line here and there is hardly detrimental and you know, If it was in reality someone was talking through that mask, I bet you wouldn't fully understand them all the time anyway, It's just the complexities and short comings that come with wearing a metal mask/respirator over your face. I admired the scale of it greatly, some of the shots of Gotham randomly exploding in paces was stunning. I feel it's flaws are in it's ambition. It attempts a lot and maybe, yeah it's not all perfect and some parts don't gel together as well as everyone wanted them too... but neither was TDK perfect and now people look on it as a masterpiece. Give Rises a second and third viewing. We will all come to appreciate it's colossal achievement in due time.

quote:

- HOLY PLOT-HOLE, BATMAN! - Nolan and his brother had obviously written themselves in to a corner with the whole auto-pilot thing on 'The Bat' and had to have that scene at the end with Fox and the engineers explaining that the auto-pilot had been fixed....huh? How exactly did they recover the vehicle from A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION? This is a bad case of setting up a plot-thread and not being able to resolve it without resorting to the ridiculous.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez

quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm posting in here as this is where the sane, patient and all round logical folk post. That review thread is like twitter but a thousand times worse and all in one thread.

I saw it on the Manchester IMAX last night. Good lord, It was some experience. I felt mentally exhausted after it. Here is my issue; and it's not with the film itself. *SPOILERS* Maybe not in this thread, but a common thought that seems to be building momentum on forums and so on is that people seem disappointed Batman didn't die? Are you kidding me?

This is like the Tony Soprano syndrome *SPOILERS FOR SOPRANOS* where at the end of the show people were almost angry there was no on screen death or death at all for Tony. I recall David Chase saying something along the lines of how sick he felt it that people could root for a character for seven years and then want him to die in the final five minutes.

I feel the same in regards to The Dark Knight himself. Why did people want Bruce to die so badly? He has been their hero for three fantastic films and then people wanted his blood for some sort of warped satisfaction? I felt we had perfect closure with the ending. Whether people see it as an ambiguous Inception nod is a different debate all together (He is alive though ) Bruce deserves to live his life away from the chaos of what once was. Nolan knows and appreciates the character in this way as I'm sure many of us do.

I loved the film to be honest. I've seen a fair few criticisms. What did people actually expect? The greatest film of all time? BB and TDK have their flaws. I was aware of this and I went into TDKR fully expecting a few minor things here and there but nothing as major to take away my enjoyment from the film itself and what has been a truly exceptional handling of a difficult character and universe.

Yeah Bane's voice was at times difficult to comprehend... so what? We all knew what he was doing and what his objectives were, a line here and there is hardly detrimental and you know, If it was in reality someone was talking through that mask, I bet you wouldn't fully understand them all the time anyway, It's just the complexities and short comings that come with wearing a metal mask/respirator over your face. I admired the scale of it greatly, some of the shots of Gotham randomly exploding in paces was stunning. I feel it's flaws are in it's ambition. It attempts a lot and maybe, yeah it's not all perfect and some parts don't gel together as well as everyone wanted them too... but neither was TDK perfect and now people look on it as a masterpiece. Give Rises a second and third viewing. We will all come to appreciate it's colossal achievement in due time.

This sums up my feelings pretty much too, especially the bit in Bold.

quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm actually shocked, and a little disheartened, with the amount of criticism it's getting.

There seems to be one positive review in every ten posted. I really don't understand why everyone wishes to pick apart every minor detail based on the plausibility of something really being able to happen.

It's a superhero film.

People expected far too much, It's clear to see now, that was the case. I've said this on here before but I was fully aware there would be clunky moments and so on. Hell, BB and TDK has many of them why would Rises fare any different?
It's just what happens with huge blockbuster film making, some minor things will get neglected, but come on, It's a good solid film and a fitting ending. People should watch it again and this time, maybe not expect the be all and end all of cinema and watch it for what it is; the third installment of a fantastic superhero trilogy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez

quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm posting in here as this is where the sane, patient and all round logical folk post. That review thread is like twitter but a thousand times worse and all in one thread.

I saw it on the Manchester IMAX last night. Good lord, It was some experience. I felt mentally exhausted after it. Here is my issue; and it's not with the film itself. *SPOILERS* Maybe not in this thread, but a common thought that seems to be building momentum on forums and so on is that people seem disappointed Batman didn't die? Are you kidding me?

This is like the Tony Soprano syndrome *SPOILERS FOR SOPRANOS* where at the end of the show people were almost angry there was no on screen death or death at all for Tony. I recall David Chase saying something along the lines of how sick he felt it that people could root for a character for seven years and then want him to die in the final five minutes.

I feel the same in regards to The Dark Knight himself. Why did people want Bruce to die so badly? He has been their hero for three fantastic films and then people wanted his blood for some sort of warped satisfaction? I felt we had perfect closure with the ending. Whether people see it as an ambiguous Inception nod is a different debate all together (He is alive though ) Bruce deserves to live his life away from the chaos of what once was. Nolan knows and appreciates the character in this way as I'm sure many of us do.

I loved the film to be honest. I've seen a fair few criticisms. What did people actually expect? The greatest film of all time? BB and TDK have their flaws. I was aware of this and I went into TDKR fully expecting a few minor things here and there but nothing as major to take away my enjoyment from the film itself and what has been a truly exceptional handling of a difficult character and universe.

Yeah Bane's voice was at times difficult to comprehend... so what? We all knew what he was doing and what his objectives were, a line here and there is hardly detrimental and you know, If it was in reality someone was talking through that mask, I bet you wouldn't fully understand them all the time anyway, It's just the complexities and short comings that come with wearing a metal mask/respirator over your face. I admired the scale of it greatly, some of the shots of Gotham randomly exploding in paces was stunning. I feel it's flaws are in it's ambition. It attempts a lot and maybe, yeah it's not all perfect and some parts don't gel together as well as everyone wanted them too... but neither was TDK perfect and now people look on it as a masterpiece. Give Rises a second and third viewing. We will all come to appreciate it's colossal achievement in due time.

This sums up my feelings pretty much too, especially the bit in Bold.

I don't think that is very fair, as it suggests that criticisms of the film are from expecting too much rather from having genuine issues with some parts of it. Very few people outright dislike it - but some, including myself, just think it is very messy indeed. Much more than the previous two films to be honest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm actually shocked, and a little disheartened, with the amount of criticism it's getting.

There seems to be one positive review in every ten posted. I really don't understand why everyone wishes to pick apart every minor detail based on the plausibility of something really being able to happen.

It's a superhero film.

People expected far too much, It's clear to see now, that was the case. I've said this on here before but I was fully aware there would be clunky moments and so on. Hell, BB and TDK has many of them why would Rises fare any different?
It's just what happens with huge blockbuster film making, some minor things will get neglected, but come on, It's a good solid film and a fitting ending. People should watch it again and this time, maybe not expect the be all and end all of cinema and watch it for what it is; the third installment of a fantastic superhero trilogy.

That's a bizarre argument to make!

Watch the film again with lower expectations?

I think Hood_Man got it right in the post above. It wasn't a terrible film, but as admirers of Nolan's previous Batman films and indeed all of his films thus far, we feel this film has a huge amount wrong with it that just seem so un-Nolan-like, if you will. Sub-par character development, clunky script writing, poor pacing. It was just very off from his usual standards. He's so regarded as having very strong creative discipline and standards, he just seems to have lowered himself here, if anything. Maybe success has got to him. I'm still puzzled as to what made him personally hire Zack Snyder to direct Superman also, but that's a separate issue!

I don't think the problems with the film are audience's fault for having high expectations! You're effectively asking us to allow it to be sub par? What kind of argument is that!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez

quote:

- HOLY PLOT-HOLE, BATMAN! - Nolan and his brother had obviously written themselves in to a corner with the whole auto-pilot thing on 'The Bat' and had to have that scene at the end with Fox and the engineers explaining that the auto-pilot had been fixed....huh? How exactly did they recover the vehicle from A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION? This is a bad case of setting up a plot-thread and not being able to resolve it without resorting to the ridiculous.

Easy, Autopilot on, drop bomb, keep flying, eject, bomb explodes, but vehicle and batman are miles away. Also it's a Neutron bomb, which i believe were designed to have a less destructive blast wave, leaving vehicles and buildings less damaged.