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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 6:33:36 PM   
TheSpleen

 

Posts: 1294
Joined: 11/7/2009
Wow. Feel guilty for even being so happy earlier to finally watch the flick. Tragic. Sick sick world.

(in reply to TheSpleen)
Post #: 12001
The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 11:21:09 PM   
Alistair

 

Posts: 2397
Joined: 1/10/2005
Well I'm posting for the final time until I see the film at 4pm tomorrow, in Cardiff.

I shall share my initial opinion with you all tomorrow evening, although I shall reserve better judgement until I've seen it a second time (which will be Sunday).

_____________________________

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift...that's why they call it the present.

(in reply to TheSpleen)
Post #: 12002
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 11:35:19 PM   
jon5000


Posts: 1089
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA
Well. Just got back from seeing it.

I'll keep my opinions in the review thread for now so as not to spoil anything, but boy we're going to have some very interesting discussion I think!

(in reply to Alistair)
Post #: 12003
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 6:23:29 PM   
justfontaine


Posts: 468
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Liverpool
I'm posting in here as this is where the sane, patient and all round logical folk post. That review thread is like twitter but a thousand times worse and all in one thread.

I saw it on the Manchester IMAX last night. Good lord, It was some experience. I felt mentally exhausted after it. Here is my issue; and it's not with the film itself. *SPOILERS* Maybe not in this thread, but a common thought that seems to be building momentum on forums and so on is that people seem disappointed Batman didn't die? Are you kidding me?

This is like the Tony Soprano syndrome *SPOILERS FOR SOPRANOS* where at the end of the show people were almost angry there was no on screen death or death at all for Tony. I recall David Chase saying something along the lines of how sick he felt it that people could root for a character for seven years and then want him to die in the final five minutes.

I feel the same in regards to The Dark Knight himself. Why did people want Bruce to die so badly? He has been their hero for three fantastic films and then people wanted his blood for some sort of warped satisfaction? I felt we had perfect closure with the ending. Whether people see it as an ambiguous Inception nod is a different debate all together (He is alive though ) Bruce deserves to live his life away from the chaos of what once was. Nolan knows and appreciates the character in this way as I'm sure many of us do.

I loved the film to be honest. I've seen a fair few criticisms. What did people actually expect? The greatest film of all time? BB and TDK have their flaws. I was aware of this and I went into TDKR fully expecting a few minor things here and there but nothing as major to take away my enjoyment from the film itself and what has been a truly exceptional handling of a difficult character and universe.

Yeah Bane's voice was at times difficult to comprehend... so what? We all knew what he was doing and what his objectives were, a line here and there is hardly detrimental and you know, If it was in reality someone was talking through that mask, I bet you wouldn't fully understand them all the time anyway, It's just the complexities and short comings that come with wearing a metal mask/respirator over your face. I admired the scale of it greatly, some of the shots of Gotham randomly exploding in paces was stunning. I feel it's flaws are in it's ambition. It attempts a lot and maybe, yeah it's not all perfect and some parts don't gel together as well as everyone wanted them too... but neither was TDK perfect and now people look on it as a masterpiece. Give Rises a second and third viewing. We will all come to appreciate it's colossal achievement in due time.



_____________________________

'I always felt it was supposed to be a revival meeting, a circus, a dance hall and a political rally and all those things are rolled into what you present... and that was rock 'n' roll for me'

The Boss

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 12004
The Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 10:53:50 PM   
Alistair

 

Posts: 2397
Joined: 1/10/2005
EXTRAORDINARY SPOILERS BELOW...!!!!

Evening all

So, like most it seems, I haven't stopped thinking about the film since I saw it (only a few hours ago). I have held off posting an adrenaline-induced review, so I've calmed down a bit and thought I'd share my initial thoughts (I'll be seeing it again tomorrow, so will have a better overall view of the film by the end of that particular screening, I think).

I've just finished off a bottle of Cobra, so apologies if there are any typos. I can't drink alcohol to save my life

So....the review:

Heath Ledger. The Joker. A character who's effect on 'The Dark Knight is only now becoming significantly apparent to me. I watched TDK last night so it's very fresh in my mind, and while I fully realize how superb the film is, and how great Ledger is, I didn't quite comprehend his overall performance until watching Rises.

See, the things is - Nolan's approach to Batman has been very serious. There's some light relief from Michael Caine's Alfred, and the interplay between him and Bruce (and also Lucius Fox) has always brought a welcome light tone to the drama and darkness. But that is all but gone in Rises. Even though the Joker was a violent, disturbing villain, the way Ledger played the character had a massive counter-balancing affect on 'The Dark Knight' as a whole. He was funny, and charismatic. A truly breathtaking character when you stop and think about it - A bad guy, (much like Darth Vader of the original Star Wars trilogy), that you want to see more and more of because of that invisible something that they bring to the film.

I'm just making the point that the dramatic tone set by TDK (which naturally flowed in to TDKR) was balanced by the Joker. Now that this character is taken out of the equation the balance is off. There's just too much darkness, despair and dread. It's all well and good having these things in a Batman film, but without relief from it the tone is somewhat...unbalanced.

True, Batman Begins didn't have the Joker but then it was deeply focused on Batman's origin, and it certainly didn't need a character like the Joker to distract from it. Nolan, in returning to the Batman universe, had no choice but to turn to a new villain and Bane just doesn't work in my opinion. The character was just...odd. I just can't explain it properly. I think some of it is to do with the fact that I genuinely couldn't understand him a lot of the time. The soundtrack mix was also TOO LOUD, so this certainly didn't help the matter.

I'm not going to natter on any more as I've said what was mainly on my mind, but here's a few points I'd like to make:

- Bale was great. Best he's ever been.

- Caine was the best thing in the film, next to Bale. A fantastic performance.

- Batman had less screen time than some supporting characters. This is truly unbelievable.

- Prison scene wasn't as powerful as I'd hoped. Maybe, once again, it was the VERY LOUD sound mix (and it was rushed....the timeline made no sense).

- The final shot of Alfred in Florence should not have cut to Bruce. It should have been left to the audience's imagination and would have been a more thought-provoking ending. The whole Bruce/Alfred dynamic was awful anyway....the behaviour in this film does not feel like these characters.

- HOLY PLOT-HOLE, BATMAN! - Nolan and his brother had obviously written themselves in to a corner with the whole auto-pilot thing on 'The Bat' and had to have that scene at the end with Fox and the engineers explaining that the auto-pilot had been fixed....huh? How exactly did they recover the vehicle from A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION? This is a bad case of setting up a plot-thread and not being able to resolve it without resorting to the ridiculous.

- Bane VS Batman. Hard to watch. Tense, violent, awful...and to see Bane lifting Batman in to the air was...omg! Batman is a badass, so it was hard to watch a weak Dark Knight have his ass handed to him.

To summarise: I think it's the weakest film of the three, by a long way. I felt a bit deflated when the credits rolled. There's shimmers of greatness in the film, but overall it feels weak. And the script was actually quite poor. Why was Modine's character in this film? Why did he have more screen-time than, y' know, BATMAN?

I hate being negative towards films, and I hate to have to admit to having a negative feeling toward a film I have felt so passionate about for a long time. But that's the way I feel. It's just a film, when all is said and done.

Batman Begins was a brilliant beginning to the series and The Dark Knight went to interesting, dramatic places. Rises does too, but they don't work as successfully as what came before.

6/10.





< Message edited by Alistair -- 21/7/2012 11:43:19 PM >


_____________________________

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift...that's why they call it the present.

(in reply to justfontaine)
Post #: 12005
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 11:11:52 PM   
TheSpleen

 

Posts: 1294
Joined: 11/7/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

EXTRAORDINARY SPOILERS BELOW...!!!!

Evening all

So, like most it seems, I haven't stopped thinking about the film since I saw it (only a few hours ago). I have held off posting an adrenaline-induced review, so I've calmed down a bit and thought I'd share my initial thoughts (I'll be seeing it again tomorrow, so will have a better overall view of the film by the end of that particular screening, I think).

I've just finished off a bottle of Cobra, so apologies if there are any typos. I can't drink alcohol to save my life

So....the review:

Heath Ledger. The Joker. A character who's effect on 'The Dark Knight is only now becoming significantly apparent to me. I watched TDK last night so it's very fresh in my mind, and while I fully realize how superb the film is, and how great Ledger is, I didn't quite comprehend his overall performance until watching Rises.

See, the things is - Nolan's approach to Batman has been very serious. There's some light relief from Michael Caine's Alfred, and the interplay between him and Bruce (and also Lucius Fox) has always brought a welcome light tone to the drama and darkness. But that is all but gone in Rises. Even though the Joker was a violent, disturbing villain, the way Ledger played the character had a massive counter-balancing affect on 'The Dark Knight' as a whole. He was funny, and charismatic. A truly breathtaking character when you stop and think about it - A bad guy, (much like Darth Vader of the original Star Wars trilogy), that you want to see more and more of because of that invisible something that they bring to the film.

I'm just making the point that the dramatic tone set by TDK (which naturally flowed in to TDKR) was balanced by the Joker. Now that this character is taken out of the equation the balance is off. There's just too much darkness, despair and dread. It's all well and good having these things in a Batman film, but without relief from it the tone is somewhat...unbalanced.

True, Batman Begins didn't have the Joker but then it was deeply focused on Batman's origin, and it certainly didn't need a character like the Joker to distract from it. Nolan, in returning to the Batman universe, had no choice but to turn to a new villain and Bane just doesn't work in my opinion. The character was just...odd. I just can't explain it properly. I think some of it is to do with the fact that I genuinely couldn't understand him a lot of the time. The soundtrack mix was also TOO LOUD, so this certainly didn't help the matter.

I'm not going to natter on any more as I've said what was mainly on my mind, but here's a few points I'd like to make:

- Bale was great. Best he's ever been.

- Caine was the best thing in the film, next to Bale. A fantastic performance.

- Batman had less screen time than some supporting characters. This is truly unbelievable.

- Prison scene wasn't as powerful as I'd hoped. Maybe, once again, it was the VERY LOUD sound mix.

- The final shot of Alfred in Florence should not have cut to Bruce. It should have been left to the audience's imagination and would have been a more thought-provoking ending.

- HOLY PLOT-HOLE, BATMAN! - Nolan and his brother had obviously written themselves in to a corner with the whole auto-pilot thing on 'The Bat' and had to have that scene at the end with Fox and the engineers explaining that the auto-pilot had been fixed....huh? How exactly did they recover the vehicle from A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION? This is a bad case of setting up a plot-thread and not being able to resolve it without resorting to the ridiculous.

- Bane VS Batman. Hard to watch. Tense, violent, awful. A great scene...and to see Bane lifting Batman in to the air was....omg!

To summarise: I think it's the weakest film of the three, by a long way. I felt as bit deflated when the credits rolled. There's shimmers of greatness in the film, but overall it feels weak. And the script was actually quite poor. Why was Modine's character in this film? Why did he have more screen-time than, y' know, BATMAN?

I hate being negative towards films, and I hate to have to admit to having a negative feeling toward a film I have felt so passionate about for a long time. But that's the way I feel. It's just a film, when all is said and done.

Batman Begins was a brilliant beginning to the series and The Dark Knight went to interesting, dramatic places. Rises does too, but they don't work as successfully as what came before.

6/10.






Pretty much my feelings too but much more eloquent! I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a thread of angry fights between the let down and the faithful, I am very happy 90 percent enjpyed it very much as I know how long the wait was. I just didn't think much of it personaly and it left me cold in some ways I didn't expect.

HUGE SPOILERS BEWARE!

Also, I'll be flamed for this but JGL 'inherits' the Batman if you like? Bruce Wayne mastered martial arts, trained with the league of shadows and went travelling across the world to better understand crooks. Blake is just a bloody Gotham cop who earns everyone's trust way too quick. Odd.

(in reply to Alistair)
Post #: 12006
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 11:18:04 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
You guys should come into the Fav Film thread. I am very much along the same lines as both of you - wrote a big old review in there.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to TheSpleen)
Post #: 12007
The Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 11:28:38 PM   
Alistair

 

Posts: 2397
Joined: 1/10/2005
I think my 6/10 score was a bit too kind the more I think about it. I'll see how I feel when I see the film again tomorrow (shockingly, I don't care to watch it again!).

I will check out some review on here in the morning....will be cool to read what people think, although I'll probably end up getting in to an argument if I post something so I shan't bother posting. My reaction will remain on this thread.

_____________________________

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift...that's why they call it the present.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 12008
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 11:29:10 PM   
TheSpleen

 

Posts: 1294
Joined: 11/7/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

You guys should come into the Fav Film thread. I am very much along the same lines as both of you - wrote a big old review in there.


Will have a gander over there tomorrow and get the vibe of opinions etc. Thankfully Empire seems a decent enough place to express an opinion without being labelled an idiot just because it isn't the majority opinion.

I wanted to love this film so bad! Ha. Maybe its worth another trip.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 12009
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 12:43:15 AM   
Coyleone


Posts: 568
Joined: 13/10/2008
So is there anyone on here that actually liked it? I've not seen it yet (still extremely excited) but on another forum I frequent people are raving about it, and I come on here and it's mostly negative from what I've read in this thread. There's no way I'm going into the review thread.

< Message edited by Coyleone -- 22/7/2012 12:44:00 AM >

(in reply to TheSpleen)
Post #: 12010
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 8:59:16 AM   
wharto15

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 28/4/2012
Coyleone, I think most people's expectations have expected the film to be akin to the second coming or something, I was like this until about Tuesday when I realised that to go in with such lofty expectations would only result in me being disappointed. Therefore when I left the cinema on Friday afternoon I thoroughly enjoyed what is a very good movie, sure its not as seminal as TDK but I feel its on par with BB. There are some plot holes and flaws but its a movie go in sit down eat your popcorn, drink your drink and let it wash over you its what I did and I am looking forward to seeing it again in a couple of weeks.

(in reply to Coyleone)
Post #: 12011
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 9:17:51 AM   
jon5000


Posts: 1089
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA
I liked parts of it, but generally there was a huge amount wrong with it. So many things will have already been mentioned. But also the filmmaking standard has really slipped for me. The pacing was awful, not a single character was allowed to bed in and become interesting. Miranda Tate was the most rushed character, such a shame. The same with Selina Kyle. As with all these blockbusters it suffers from too many characters. Bane was interesting as this ominous overLord-esque threat that appeared in the city, but then he just became this Marxist revolutionary which really stuck out as Nolan trying to be too intelligent for me. It felt jarring. So many awkward lines in the script also. Bane's origin was such a clunky set up. As if the Nolan's had thought 'right... we need to move the script along, let's have Alfred know everything about Bane.' But by doing that he becomes less of a threat. They got it spot on with the Joker. Who is he? What does he want? These questions should be answered as the narrative moves forward, not by Michael Caine having a plot dumping moment. It was almost a George Lucas mistake. Let's stop and explain the plot.

I'm gutted really. The Dark Knight was superb. This was so flawed.

I'm starting to think success is getting to Nolan's talent. His creative discipline isn't what it was. I felt this in Inception also, so many clunky moments. You watch Memento or Insomnia (his best films IMO) now and it's hard to believe they were made by the same filmmaker.

Such a shame.

< Message edited by jon5000 -- 22/7/2012 9:21:06 AM >

(in reply to wharto15)
Post #: 12012
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 10:04:23 AM   
Alistair

 

Posts: 2397
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: wharto15
I think most people's expectations have expected the film to be akin to the second coming or something


I think this statement is the equivalent of the 'get out of jail card' for film reviews, and also an insult to a person's opinion of a film. I have seen many films that I have been very hyped for, especially 'The Dark Knight', and I felt that delivered in spades. If an individual's review cannot communicate that person's disappointment in a film, to others, then fair enough. I've listed my reasons for being mostly negative above. I just didn't think the film worked very well.

Folks, it's just a film. And it's just opinion.I have never understood why people care about other people's opinions of a film so much- If you liked it, great

< Message edited by Alistair -- 22/7/2012 10:05:14 AM >


_____________________________

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift...that's why they call it the present.

(in reply to wharto15)
Post #: 12013
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 10:48:27 AM   
jon5000


Posts: 1089
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK3n5Z-g_w

(in reply to Alistair)
Post #: 12014
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 11:01:38 AM   
TheSpleen

 

Posts: 1294
Joined: 11/7/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coyleone

So is there anyone on here that actually liked it? I've not seen it yet (still extremely excited) but on another forum I frequent people are raving about it, and I come on here and it's mostly negative from what I've read in this thread. There's no way I'm going into the review thread.


Love your avatar! I think expectations did reach a ridiculous level, and more people loved it than hated it. For me, it has nothing to do with expectation, I just don't think its a very good film sadly. The good news is I'm in the minority. Hope you love it mate.

(in reply to Coyleone)
Post #: 12015
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 11:22:41 AM   
UTB


Posts: 9932
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coyleone

So is there anyone on here that actually liked it? I've not seen it yet (still extremely excited) but on another forum I frequent people are raving about it, and I come on here and it's mostly negative from what I've read in this thread. There's no way I'm going into the review thread.



I loved it. Its everything it needed to be and more. Of course there were some minor niggles but there were with the previous two.

(in reply to Coyleone)
Post #: 12016
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 1:25:33 PM   
dannyo

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 29/5/2006
i have to say i really enjoyed it too and thought it was a really good ending, although i have to agree with a previous post where i think it would have been great if the last shot had been Michael Caine looking out over the cafe, smiling, and giving a nod. I did have a few niggles (SPOILER: i felt really bad for Nestor Carbonell- the mayor just seemed to die and no one made reference to it. And poor Josh Pence- i think the only moment he had was turning around!). I also agree that, on first viewing, i was hooked all the way through but on second/third/fourth viewing there will be moments of lagging. I think the problem some people seem to have is that there is so much anticipation when a film like this comes out that to meet everyones expectations is nigh on impossible.

My favourite scene, bane fighting batman in the sewers. I felt every punch.

(in reply to UTB)
Post #: 12017
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 1:32:04 PM   
justfontaine


Posts: 468
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Liverpool

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK3n5Z-g_w


This is fantastic

_____________________________

'I always felt it was supposed to be a revival meeting, a circus, a dance hall and a political rally and all those things are rolled into what you present... and that was rock 'n' roll for me'

The Boss

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 12018
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 1:40:06 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK3n5Z-g_w


If these guys post on the forum or look at it....kudos!

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 12019
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 9:50:01 AM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 799
Joined: 2/9/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm posting in here as this is where the sane, patient and all round logical folk post. That review thread is like twitter but a thousand times worse and all in one thread.

I saw it on the Manchester IMAX last night. Good lord, It was some experience. I felt mentally exhausted after it. Here is my issue; and it's not with the film itself. *SPOILERS* Maybe not in this thread, but a common thought that seems to be building momentum on forums and so on is that people seem disappointed Batman didn't die? Are you kidding me?

This is like the Tony Soprano syndrome *SPOILERS FOR SOPRANOS* where at the end of the show people were almost angry there was no on screen death or death at all for Tony. I recall David Chase saying something along the lines of how sick he felt it that people could root for a character for seven years and then want him to die in the final five minutes.

I feel the same in regards to The Dark Knight himself. Why did people want Bruce to die so badly? He has been their hero for three fantastic films and then people wanted his blood for some sort of warped satisfaction? I felt we had perfect closure with the ending. Whether people see it as an ambiguous Inception nod is a different debate all together (He is alive though ) Bruce deserves to live his life away from the chaos of what once was. Nolan knows and appreciates the character in this way as I'm sure many of us do.

I loved the film to be honest. I've seen a fair few criticisms. What did people actually expect? The greatest film of all time? BB and TDK have their flaws. I was aware of this and I went into TDKR fully expecting a few minor things here and there but nothing as major to take away my enjoyment from the film itself and what has been a truly exceptional handling of a difficult character and universe.

Yeah Bane's voice was at times difficult to comprehend... so what? We all knew what he was doing and what his objectives were, a line here and there is hardly detrimental and you know, If it was in reality someone was talking through that mask, I bet you wouldn't fully understand them all the time anyway, It's just the complexities and short comings that come with wearing a metal mask/respirator over your face. I admired the scale of it greatly, some of the shots of Gotham randomly exploding in paces was stunning. I feel it's flaws are in it's ambition. It attempts a lot and maybe, yeah it's not all perfect and some parts don't gel together as well as everyone wanted them too... but neither was TDK perfect and now people look on it as a masterpiece. Give Rises a second and third viewing. We will all come to appreciate it's colossal achievement in due time.




This sums up my feelings pretty much too, especially the bit in Bold.

(in reply to justfontaine)
Post #: 12020
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 10:02:05 AM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 799
Joined: 2/9/2010
quote:

- HOLY PLOT-HOLE, BATMAN! - Nolan and his brother had obviously written themselves in to a corner with the whole auto-pilot thing on 'The Bat' and had to have that scene at the end with Fox and the engineers explaining that the auto-pilot had been fixed....huh? How exactly did they recover the vehicle from A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION? This is a bad case of setting up a plot-thread and not being able to resolve it without resorting to the ridiculous.


Easy, Autopilot on, drop bomb, keep flying, eject, bomb explodes, but vehicle and batman are miles away. Also it's a Neutron bomb, which i believe were designed to have a less destructive blast wave, leaving vehicles and buildings less damaged.

(in reply to TheSpleen)
Post #: 12021
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 10:40:37 AM   
Russ Whitfield

 

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012
I really enjoyed it, miles better than the second one (which I thought was shit, especially after the superlative 'Begins)... Yep - great stuff on this one, redeemed the series for me - I really liked Anne Hathaway's Catwoman too.

_____________________________

www.soldiergirlsmovie.com/
www.i-spimovie.com/

(in reply to Discodez)
Post #: 12022
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 10:43:50 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez


quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm posting in here as this is where the sane, patient and all round logical folk post. That review thread is like twitter but a thousand times worse and all in one thread.

I saw it on the Manchester IMAX last night. Good lord, It was some experience. I felt mentally exhausted after it. Here is my issue; and it's not with the film itself. *SPOILERS* Maybe not in this thread, but a common thought that seems to be building momentum on forums and so on is that people seem disappointed Batman didn't die? Are you kidding me?

This is like the Tony Soprano syndrome *SPOILERS FOR SOPRANOS* where at the end of the show people were almost angry there was no on screen death or death at all for Tony. I recall David Chase saying something along the lines of how sick he felt it that people could root for a character for seven years and then want him to die in the final five minutes.

I feel the same in regards to The Dark Knight himself. Why did people want Bruce to die so badly? He has been their hero for three fantastic films and then people wanted his blood for some sort of warped satisfaction? I felt we had perfect closure with the ending. Whether people see it as an ambiguous Inception nod is a different debate all together (He is alive though ) Bruce deserves to live his life away from the chaos of what once was. Nolan knows and appreciates the character in this way as I'm sure many of us do.

I loved the film to be honest. I've seen a fair few criticisms. What did people actually expect? The greatest film of all time? BB and TDK have their flaws. I was aware of this and I went into TDKR fully expecting a few minor things here and there but nothing as major to take away my enjoyment from the film itself and what has been a truly exceptional handling of a difficult character and universe.

Yeah Bane's voice was at times difficult to comprehend... so what? We all knew what he was doing and what his objectives were, a line here and there is hardly detrimental and you know, If it was in reality someone was talking through that mask, I bet you wouldn't fully understand them all the time anyway, It's just the complexities and short comings that come with wearing a metal mask/respirator over your face. I admired the scale of it greatly, some of the shots of Gotham randomly exploding in paces was stunning. I feel it's flaws are in it's ambition. It attempts a lot and maybe, yeah it's not all perfect and some parts don't gel together as well as everyone wanted them too... but neither was TDK perfect and now people look on it as a masterpiece. Give Rises a second and third viewing. We will all come to appreciate it's colossal achievement in due time.




This sums up my feelings pretty much too, especially the bit in Bold.


I don't think that is very fair, as it suggests that criticisms of the film are from expecting too much rather from having genuine issues with some parts of it. Very few people outright dislike it - but some, including myself, just think it is very messy indeed. Much more than the previous two films to be honest.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Discodez)
Post #: 12023
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 10:49:49 AM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005
I agree with Girv, some of us just weren't a thrilled with it as most people seem to be. We didn't hate it, we just found it disappointing that a filmmaker as good as Nola has delivered something that, while still being a very good film, has flaws and discrepancies that he's usually so careful to avoid.

Just because you didn't spot something, doesn't mean it isn't there.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 12024
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 10:50:39 AM   
justfontaine


Posts: 468
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Liverpool
I'm actually shocked, and a little disheartened, with the amount of criticism it's getting.

There seems to be one positive review in every ten posted. I really don't understand why everyone wishes to pick apart every minor detail based on the plausibility of something really being able to happen.

It's a superhero film.

People expected far too much, It's clear to see now, that was the case. I've said this on here before but I was fully aware there would be clunky moments and so on. Hell, BB and TDK has many of them why would Rises fare any different?
It's just what happens with huge blockbuster film making, some minor things will get neglected, but come on, It's a good solid film and a fitting ending. People should watch it again and this time, maybe not expect the be all and end all of cinema and watch it for what it is; the third installment of a fantastic superhero trilogy.

_____________________________

'I always felt it was supposed to be a revival meeting, a circus, a dance hall and a political rally and all those things are rolled into what you present... and that was rock 'n' roll for me'

The Boss

(in reply to TheSpleen)
Post #: 12025
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 11:02:58 AM   
jon5000


Posts: 1089
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA
quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm actually shocked, and a little disheartened, with the amount of criticism it's getting.

There seems to be one positive review in every ten posted. I really don't understand why everyone wishes to pick apart every minor detail based on the plausibility of something really being able to happen.

It's a superhero film.

People expected far too much, It's clear to see now, that was the case. I've said this on here before but I was fully aware there would be clunky moments and so on. Hell, BB and TDK has many of them why would Rises fare any different?
It's just what happens with huge blockbuster film making, some minor things will get neglected, but come on, It's a good solid film and a fitting ending. People should watch it again and this time, maybe not expect the be all and end all of cinema and watch it for what it is; the third installment of a fantastic superhero trilogy.


That's a bizarre argument to make!

Watch the film again with lower expectations?

I think Hood_Man got it right in the post above. It wasn't a terrible film, but as admirers of Nolan's previous Batman films and indeed all of his films thus far, we feel this film has a huge amount wrong with it that just seem so un-Nolan-like, if you will. Sub-par character development, clunky script writing, poor pacing. It was just very off from his usual standards. He's so regarded as having very strong creative discipline and standards, he just seems to have lowered himself here, if anything. Maybe success has got to him. I'm still puzzled as to what made him personally hire Zack Snyder to direct Superman also, but that's a separate issue!

I don't think the problems with the film are audience's fault for having high expectations! You're effectively asking us to allow it to be sub par? What kind of argument is that!

< Message edited by jon5000 -- 23/7/2012 11:03:47 AM >

(in reply to justfontaine)
Post #: 12026
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 11:03:11 AM   
justfontaine


Posts: 468
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Liverpool

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez


quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm posting in here as this is where the sane, patient and all round logical folk post. That review thread is like twitter but a thousand times worse and all in one thread.

I saw it on the Manchester IMAX last night. Good lord, It was some experience. I felt mentally exhausted after it. Here is my issue; and it's not with the film itself. *SPOILERS* Maybe not in this thread, but a common thought that seems to be building momentum on forums and so on is that people seem disappointed Batman didn't die? Are you kidding me?

This is like the Tony Soprano syndrome *SPOILERS FOR SOPRANOS* where at the end of the show people were almost angry there was no on screen death or death at all for Tony. I recall David Chase saying something along the lines of how sick he felt it that people could root for a character for seven years and then want him to die in the final five minutes.

I feel the same in regards to The Dark Knight himself. Why did people want Bruce to die so badly? He has been their hero for three fantastic films and then people wanted his blood for some sort of warped satisfaction? I felt we had perfect closure with the ending. Whether people see it as an ambiguous Inception nod is a different debate all together (He is alive though ) Bruce deserves to live his life away from the chaos of what once was. Nolan knows and appreciates the character in this way as I'm sure many of us do.

I loved the film to be honest. I've seen a fair few criticisms. What did people actually expect? The greatest film of all time? BB and TDK have their flaws. I was aware of this and I went into TDKR fully expecting a few minor things here and there but nothing as major to take away my enjoyment from the film itself and what has been a truly exceptional handling of a difficult character and universe.

Yeah Bane's voice was at times difficult to comprehend... so what? We all knew what he was doing and what his objectives were, a line here and there is hardly detrimental and you know, If it was in reality someone was talking through that mask, I bet you wouldn't fully understand them all the time anyway, It's just the complexities and short comings that come with wearing a metal mask/respirator over your face. I admired the scale of it greatly, some of the shots of Gotham randomly exploding in paces was stunning. I feel it's flaws are in it's ambition. It attempts a lot and maybe, yeah it's not all perfect and some parts don't gel together as well as everyone wanted them too... but neither was TDK perfect and now people look on it as a masterpiece. Give Rises a second and third viewing. We will all come to appreciate it's colossal achievement in due time.




This sums up my feelings pretty much too, especially the bit in Bold.


I don't think that is very fair, as it suggests that criticisms of the film are from expecting too much rather from having genuine issues with some parts of it. Very few people outright dislike it - but some, including myself, just think it is very messy indeed. Much more than the previous two films to be honest.


Yes, fair point. My friend and I are big fans of the previous two, however we do playfully mock some of the clunky elements and dialogue and not to mention poor editing etc of both of them, so I guess when we went into Rises we were expecting some of the same (minor) discrepancies and yes, they were there but, personally, I didn't care. I loved the spectacle, I loved the set pieces, I loved Bale's performance and I loved the downright simplicity of the good versus evil heart of it.

I guess, I just didn't expect a perfectly constructed, technically sound film. I expected what I saw; a fantastic action blockbuster. I understand it may have sounded like I was insinuating that for one to enjoy it one must expect less and yes, that is inherently wrong but the mid expectation was just natural for me. Now, to be seeing all this scorn poured on it; I'm just a little shocked. But by all means, I fully see the flaws in it, I really do. I guess I just kinda, choose to look past them.

_____________________________

'I always felt it was supposed to be a revival meeting, a circus, a dance hall and a political rally and all those things are rolled into what you present... and that was rock 'n' roll for me'

The Boss

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 12027
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 11:17:45 AM   
justfontaine


Posts: 468
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Liverpool

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

quote:

ORIGINAL: justfontaine

I'm actually shocked, and a little disheartened, with the amount of criticism it's getting.

There seems to be one positive review in every ten posted. I really don't understand why everyone wishes to pick apart every minor detail based on the plausibility of something really being able to happen.

It's a superhero film.

People expected far too much, It's clear to see now, that was the case. I've said this on here before but I was fully aware there would be clunky moments and so on. Hell, BB and TDK has many of them why would Rises fare any different?
It's just what happens with huge blockbuster film making, some minor things will get neglected, but come on, It's a good solid film and a fitting ending. People should watch it again and this time, maybe not expect the be all and end all of cinema and watch it for what it is; the third installment of a fantastic superhero trilogy.


That's a bizarre argument to make!

Watch the film again with lower expectations?

I think Hood_Man got it right in the post above. It wasn't a terrible film, but as admirers of Nolan's previous Batman films and indeed all of his films thus far, we feel this film has a huge amount wrong with it that just seem so un-Nolan-like, if you will. Sub-par character development, clunky script writing, poor pacing. It was just very off from his usual standards. He's so regarded as having very strong creative discipline and standards, he just seems to have lowered himself here, if anything. Maybe success has got to him. I'm still puzzled as to what made him personally hire Zack Snyder to direct Superman also, but that's a separate issue!

I don't think the problems with the film are audience's fault for having high expectations! You're effectively asking us to allow it to be sub par? What kind of argument is that!


Everything I have marked in bold. Could you elaborate slightly please?

Character development - What's the issue here? Did we all want an extra half an hour explaining Selina Kyle or Holly Robinson or whoever so then we could take issue of why he dedicated so much of the film to her/them? I don't understand which characters were weak in development. I knew exactly what everyone's roles were and this didn't impede on the enjoyment nor the story development.

Poor Pacing - I'll admit the occupation of Gotham was it's weakest point, it felt rushed and I didn't really get to grips with the scale and time frame of it I never felt like Gotham was in that much trouble. Should have been more inclusion of how the people of the city were dealing with a four month rule under a terrorist.

Clunky script writing - What? as appose to the Arthur Miller stature of the previous two? Do me a favour, they are all slightly clunky dialogue wise. Don't sugarcoat the others.

_____________________________

'I always felt it was supposed to be a revival meeting, a circus, a dance hall and a political rally and all those things are rolled into what you present... and that was rock 'n' roll for me'

The Boss

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 12028
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 11:19:03 AM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez

quote:

- HOLY PLOT-HOLE, BATMAN! - Nolan and his brother had obviously written themselves in to a corner with the whole auto-pilot thing on 'The Bat' and had to have that scene at the end with Fox and the engineers explaining that the auto-pilot had been fixed....huh? How exactly did they recover the vehicle from A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION? This is a bad case of setting up a plot-thread and not being able to resolve it without resorting to the ridiculous.


Easy, Autopilot on, drop bomb, keep flying, eject, bomb explodes, but vehicle and batman are miles away. Also it's a Neutron bomb, which i believe were designed to have a less destructive blast wave, leaving vehicles and buildings less damaged.


This doesn't make sense. Why would the autopilot be necessary if Batman stayed inside anyway?

_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

(in reply to Discodez)
Post #: 12029
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 11:28:34 AM   
justfontaine


Posts: 468
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Liverpool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK3n5Z-g_w

I'll just leave this here shall I... In case this all gets out of hand.

_____________________________

'I always felt it was supposed to be a revival meeting, a circus, a dance hall and a political rally and all those things are rolled into what you present... and that was rock 'n' roll for me'

The Boss

(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 12030
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