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RE: RE: - 12/10/2011 12:38:37 PM   
thetruth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasper_29

After 14 years it is amazing how good the effects are. A nearly perfect film except for some of the performances. Van Dien is terrible and "He's supposed to be terrible" is no excuse..

He was the Sam Worthington of his day!
Great film!
Reboot,remake anyone??

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Post #: 31
RE: RE: - 12/10/2011 12:43:58 PM   
clownfoot


Posts: 7919
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasper_29

After 14 years it is amazing how good the effects are. A nearly perfect film except for some of the performances. Van Dien is terrible and "He's supposed to be terrible" is no excuse.. 


Yep, the effects are superb. I think it simply shows that modern CGI is rushed to meet a release date (certainly was for the King Kong premiere - I think it's been tided up since) where when it was in it's initial stages it was used much more effectively. One of the few films I actually have on Blu-ray. And the performances are great. The film would be so much less fun if it involved competent actors!

< Message edited by clownfoot -- 12/10/2011 12:44:35 PM >


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Post #: 32
RE: RE: - 12/10/2011 2:36:43 PM   
Rgirvan44


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The reason they are bad actors is because the film is a propaganda film that the Federation made about the war. 

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Post #: 33
RE: RE: - 12/10/2011 2:54:57 PM   
Emyr Thy King


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Well there's a certain tongue-in-cheek humour throughout the film and we all know it was meant to satirise U.S foreign policy. The animations for the bugs is outstanding and still stands to this day. There are some oddities: M.I troopers with very little body armour against massive killer bugs and no use of armoured vehicles whatsoever. At least in Heinlein's novel they used a power armour which makes sense. Unfortunately two very shoddy sequels have been made. I think they should just reboot the whole thing. Maybe a closer adaptation of the book can give a fresh take on the story.


< Message edited by Emyr Thy King -- 12/10/2011 2:58:31 PM >


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Post #: 34
RE: RE: - 12/10/2011 2:57:51 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Well there's a certain tongue-in-cheek humour throughout the film and we all know it was meant to satirise U.S foreign policy.


Funny thing is, at the time it was made, US Foregin policy wasn't nearly as hawkish as it got. ST works as a retrospective satire really well.


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Post #: 35
RE: RE: - 12/10/2011 3:01:10 PM   
Emyr Thy King


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Yes that's true. Perhaps it harkened back to the 80's with Reagan, and perhaps further with Vietnam? I would say even back to the 40's with the demonisation of the Japanese as the 'yellow bastards' or whatever they called them. Wasn't it in part about the loss of innocence in war and of the de-humanisation of others in conflict? You could say in retrospect, that it was coincidental or very perceptive in regards to what's happened since the film was made.


< Message edited by Emyr Thy King -- 12/10/2011 3:02:28 PM >


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Post #: 36
RE: RE: - 12/10/2011 3:06:50 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Yes that's true. Perhaps it harkened back to the 80's with Reagan, and perhaps further with Vietnam? I would say even back to the 40's with the demonisation of the Japanese as the 'yellow bastards' or whatever they called them. Wasn't it in part about the loss of innocence in war and of the de-humanisation of others in conflict? You could say in retrospect, that it was coincidental or very perceptive in regards to what's happened since the film was made.



Well the message Verhoeven had for the film was "War makes facsists of us all". That the film is still relevent says more for how history repeats than any specific conflict. Although its connections to the war of terror are really spooky.


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Post #: 37
RE: RE: - 12/10/2011 3:26:00 PM   
Emyr Thy King


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It ties in with Nazi Germany type propaganda and fascism, which Verhoeven had some experience with as a child if I recall. "Black Book" explores this part of history too. I think he has a point though.

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Post #: 38
RE: RE: - 12/10/2011 8:17:29 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Well there's a certain tongue-in-cheek humour throughout the film and we all know it was meant to satirise U.S foreign policy. The animations for the bugs is outstanding and still stands to this day. There are some oddities: M.I troopers with very little body armour against massive killer bugs and no use of armoured vehicles whatsoever.



It does fit with the satiric tone of the film though. Troops being sent without the proper equipment as they underestimated the enemy.

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ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 39
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 12:35:02 AM   
thetruth


Posts: 1548
Joined: 3/8/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Well there's a certain tongue-in-cheek humour throughout the film and we all know it was meant to satirise U.S foreign policy. The animations for the bugs is outstanding and still stands to this day. There are some oddities: M.I troopers with very little body armour against massive killer bugs and no use of armoured vehicles whatsoever.



It does fit with the satiric tone of the film though. Troops being sent without the proper equipment as they underestimated the enemy.

When i watched it,i didnt care about any intended satire,nor do i now.
It was/is a cool film without any of that.

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Post #: 40
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 12:42:49 AM   
Rgirvan44


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Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
But it is a satire. It ain't even the subtext of the movie. It is one of the reasons that the movie is as cool as it is.

One thing I picked up on was the fact that the soliders who didn't make it by and large joined the Mobile Infantry for reasons other than service. I think of the woman who joined to have a baby - she is the first to go, dragged down a big old tunnel - hows that for subtext.

Rico nearly dies, but his story is of a man who grows into becoming a solider. Rico, Carmen and Neil Patrick Harris by the end WANT to be soliders. Even Diz joined not because she wanted to be a solider, but because she wanted Rico.

As I said above, as a propaganda flick it is cheesy but also interesting.

< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 22/8/2012 10:50:50 PM >


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Post #: 41
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 9:34:50 AM   
thetruth


Posts: 1548
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I take your point,though mine was this is just enjoyable on a superficial level too.
The cgi is better than a lot of current films,and it is fun!
A science fiction satire that works,whod have thought?

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Post #: 42
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 12:39:42 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2179
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation
It does fit with the satiric tone of the film though. Troops being sent without the proper equipment as they underestimated the enemy.


Sure, there were also production considerations as well. It would've cost more to implement scenes with the battle armour. If you think about CGI, prosthetics and the rest of it. But it definitely works on that level.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
I think of the woman who joined to have a baby - she is the first to go, dragged down a big old tunnel - hows that for subtext.


Actually the actress was an opera singer. You can tell in one of the scenes where she sings to distract Rico during his 'Interstellar Skype' chat.


< Message edited by Emyr Thy King -- 13/10/2011 12:42:03 PM >


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Post #: 43
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 1:25:06 PM   
clownfoot


Posts: 7919
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: The ickle town of Fuck, Austria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation
It does fit with the satiric tone of the film though. Troops being sent without the proper equipment as they underestimated the enemy.


Sure, there were also production considerations as well. It would've cost more to implement scenes with the battle armour. If you think about CGI, prosthetics and the rest of it. But it definitely works on that level.



Costs. Isn't that a problem with sufficiently equipping a modern army as well? Starship Troopers is all kinds of unintentional genius!

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetruth
A science fiction satire that works,whod have thought?


Uhm... Robocop...

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Post #: 44
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 1:29:48 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation
It does fit with the satiric tone of the film though. Troops being sent without the proper equipment as they underestimated the enemy.


Sure, there were also production considerations as well. It would've cost more to implement scenes with the battle armour. If you think about CGI, prosthetics and the rest of it. But it definitely works on that level.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
I think of the woman who joined to have a baby - she is the first to go, dragged down a big old tunnel - hows that for subtext.


Actually the actress was an opera singer. You can tell in one of the scenes where she sings to distract Rico during his 'Interstellar Skype' chat.



Sorry I meant in the context of the film - she wanted a licesnse for a baby. And then dies by being dragged down a hole.


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Post #: 45
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 1:49:11 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2179
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
quote:

ORIGINAL: clownfoot


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation
It does fit with the satiric tone of the film though. Troops being sent without the proper equipment as they underestimated the enemy.


Sure, there were also production considerations as well. It would've cost more to implement scenes with the battle armour. If you think about CGI, prosthetics and the rest of it. But it definitely works on that level.



Costs. Isn't that a problem with sufficiently equipping a modern army as well? Starship Troopers is all kinds of unintentional genius!


Well until the end of the film anyway where they show off all that expensive new kit.


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Post #: 46
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 1:55:20 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
They bring the suits into the third film...which for a low budget flick isn't really that bad at all. 

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Post #: 47
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 3:16:04 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2179
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
If I recall from one of the games, the Marauders? The special ops basically. Supplemental: Just checked..Marauder is part of the title hah.


< Message edited by Emyr Thy King -- 13/10/2011 3:17:19 PM >


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Post #: 48
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 4:11:23 PM   
thetruth


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Robocop more satirical than ST?Really?
Same director ok,but ST takes the satirical biscuit surely?

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Post #: 49
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 4:25:08 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2179
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
Well if you look closely. OCP is the corporate outfit that pretty much rules everything. They pretty much own the police and they certainly run the entire city, I think they may even have been running the news? It was pretty much a warning shot about growing corporate power and shows what could happen if big business got out of hand. There's also some stuff about the excesses of the media in terms of news reporting. Decline of industry, poverty, gas guzzling cars etc.

< Message edited by Emyr Thy King -- 13/10/2011 4:27:21 PM >


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Post #: 50
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 4:50:18 PM   
thetruth


Posts: 1548
Joined: 3/8/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Well if you look closely. OCP is the corporate outfit that pretty much rules everything. They pretty much own the police and they certainly run the entire city, I think they may even have been running the news? It was pretty much a warning shot about growing corporate power and shows what could happen if big business got out of hand. There's also some stuff about the excesses of the media in terms of news reporting. Decline of industry, poverty, gas guzzling cars etc.

Yeah,but i mean its there,you dont need to look very far for the satire in Robocop.

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Post #: 51
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 5:19:29 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2179
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetruth


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Well if you look closely. OCP is the corporate outfit that pretty much rules everything. They pretty much own the police and they certainly run the entire city, I think they may even have been running the news? It was pretty much a warning shot about growing corporate power and shows what could happen if big business got out of hand. There's also some stuff about the excesses of the media in terms of news reporting. Decline of industry, poverty, gas guzzling cars etc.

Yeah,but i mean its there,you dont need to look very far for the satire in Robocop.


Sure, as others have said for "ST" some of it is incidental. But it works and there are quite a few parallels. I like that you have to look into it a bit further to get the satire.

Regarding the asteroid that hit the Earth. Was this an asteroid that the Federation either aimed at the Earth or deliberately allowed to impact the Earth? I can't imagine the bugs being able to open wormholes and fling them over.


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Post #: 52
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 5:33:19 PM   
clownfoot


Posts: 7919
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: The ickle town of Fuck, Austria
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetruth

Robocop more satirical than ST?Really?


Who said it was more satirical? You stated...

'A science fiction satire that works,whod have thought?'

I replied 'Robocop'. As in, 'Troopers is not the only science fiction satire that works'.

Simples.



< Message edited by clownfoot -- 13/10/2011 5:34:00 PM >


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Post #: 53
RE: RE: - 13/10/2011 5:55:53 PM   
thetruth


Posts: 1548
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My bad!I wasnt seeking an arguement,i just misread what you meant.
I like them both.

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Post #: 54
RE: RE: - 22/8/2012 10:53:56 PM   
Rgirvan44


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Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
There is a CGI sequel of this coming out in a couple of weeks. For a movie which was seen as a big flop back in the day it certainly just keeps moving along. Must have made a huge amount of cash on home video.

While I am not against a more serious minded remake of the film...I would much prefer them to do it under the hood of the Forever War which is a much more thoughtful version of the ST book.

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