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Flatulent_Bob -> RE: The England Football Thread (8/2/2007 11:24:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank Castle

Didn't lampard play in his position during the world cup and do sod all. He's been given his chance and blown it on every occasion. Time to go to the bench.

Did he? I've blocked out most of the world cup to be honest. Did we play with a 3 in midfield and three up top?  We can't of done we played Beckham, Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Hargreaves 4-5-1 not 4-3-3.





Fluke Skywalker -> RE: The England Football Thread (8/2/2007 11:50:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

Indeedy but its a bit harsh on Frank to play him on the left and the demand he is dropped. Jose thought they could play together so why don't we try it properly. 4-3-3 as Chelsea play.
4.  Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Bridge/Cole
3.  Hargreaves (holding), Lampard, Gerrard
3.  Rooney (inside left), Lennon/Dyer (inside right), AJ



I actually quite like the idea of that! Looks pretty exciting on paper and England fans sure as hell need an injection of excitement these days.

On the Gus Hiddink note I really wish we had him in the run up to the last world cup - I'm not saying we would have won it but he seems to make teams play above themselves and it would have interesting to see what he could have done with the talent we had.




Flatulent_Bob -> RE: The England Football Thread (8/2/2007 2:59:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

Indeedy but its a bit harsh on Frank to play him on the left and the demand he is dropped. Jose thought they could play together so why don't we try it properly. 4-3-3 as Chelsea play.
4.  Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Bridge/Cole
3.  Hargreaves (holding), Lampard, Gerrard
3.  Rooney (inside left), Lennon/Dyer (inside right), AJ



I actually quite like the idea of that! Looks pretty exciting on paper and England fans sure as hell need an injection of excitement these days.

On the Gus Hiddink note I really wish we had him in the run up to the last world cup - I'm not saying we would have won it but he seems to make teams play above themselves and it would have interesting to see what he could have done with the talent we had.


You get me the job Fluke and I'll put it into plan for you [:D]
I hear sleeping with the FA top brass is easy enough and just blackmail your way in from there.




Boring Prophet -> RE: The England Football Thread (8/2/2007 8:39:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank Castle

Didn't lampard play in his position during the world cup and do sod all. He's been given his chance and blown it on every occasion. Time to go to the bench.

Did he? I've blocked out most of the world cup to be honest. Did we play with a 3 in midfield and three up top?  We can't of done we played Beckham, Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Hargreaves 4-5-1 not 4-3-3.




Yeah, with Beckham and Cole out wide, Gerrard and Lampard in the middle with Hargreaves right behind them.




Flatulent_Bob -> RE: The England Football Thread (9/2/2007 9:31:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Boring Prophet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank Castle

Didn't lampard play in his position during the world cup and do sod all. He's been given his chance and blown it on every occasion. Time to go to the bench.

Did he? I've blocked out most of the world cup to be honest. Did we play with a 3 in midfield and three up top?  We can't of done we played Beckham, Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Hargreaves 4-5-1 not 4-3-3.




Yeah, with Beckham and Cole out wide, Gerrard and Lampard in the middle with Hargreaves right behind them.


Well then my point stands that we should try a 4-3-3 rather than a 4-5-1.




___ -> RE: The England Football Thread (9/2/2007 12:27:00 PM)

Although he often talks rubbish, James Lawton in the Independent describes what i (and proberbly many others) have been thinking for the last few years while watching England:

The England midfield didn't work under Eriksson because of his absurd faith in the plainly dwindling powers of David Beckham, a folly that drove away the one player with the talent and the instinct to operate as a true world-class playmaker, Paul Scholes. It does not work under McClaren because Gerrard and Lampard, titans for their clubs, continue to operate for England as separate planets in a chaotic universe.

Why is it their influence becomes so negligible on the international field? It is because the chance to exploit the talent that often shines so brightly in club football, that ability to get on the end of things with power and decision, is taken away from them because of their own tactical limitations. There cannot be an end if there is no beginning.

Gerrard escaped most of the flak on Wednesday because of a busy start and, most notably, a sweeping pass to Peter Crouch that was squandered. But the reality was that the pass came from a position in which the Spanish midfielders like Xavi, and then later Cesc Fabregas, would almost certainly not have been occupying. Why? Because they move closely with their team-mates, they fashion passing sequences in small areas that provide the foundation for a decisive strike.

Gerrard was on his own when he got the ball which he passed on to Crouch. It was not the result of a measured build-up; it came from the breakdown of a Spanish attack. McClaren talked of building blocks, but the trouble, once more, was that if this was Legoland the parts still did not fit.

What England still cannot do is accumulate the controlled possession that gives scope for true creativity. When Lampard performs so strikingly for Chelsea he is benefiting not only from his own power and striking ability but also the hard presence and natural midfield savvy of Claude Makelele and Michael Essien. When Gerrard catches the eye so spectacularly at Anfield it is not because of a natural creative instinct but the explosive quality that is often exploited by Xabi Alonso, a classic midfielder who at his best passes with the finest touch and a natural eye for available space.






matty_b -> RE: The England Football Thread (9/2/2007 3:36:08 PM)

Very good points. That reminds me of the world cup when it Germany's excellent performances were being analysed and it was pointed out that Ballack and Frings (the two central midfielders) rarely strayed away from each other. If one did, the other came in to cover immediately. It was so good to watch, it was like they were tied together with rope.

But nevermind. As long as McClaren gets them playing with "effort" and "pride" in the upcoming "rainbow" month[8|]




Hardcore Raver -> RE: The England Football Thread (21/2/2007 10:31:14 AM)

There's been quite a bit of talk recently about the possibility of Beckham returning to the England squad. I watched most of the Real v Bayern game last night, and I thought Beckham was excellent. I lost count of the number of great passes he made throughout the game, and he assisted with two of Real's three goals. He also scored for Real on his comeback a couple of weeks ago. I think that if he can keep up this form then he should be considered for England's upcoming qualifiers against Israel and Andorra. His detractors often point to his poor performances in the World Cup, and I agree, he was poor, but then so was pretty much the entire squad. Also, I think that he was involved in every single goal we scored in the tournament apart from the penalty shootout (I may be wrong here though, as my memory's not what it used to be). One of England's main problems at the moment is scoring goals, so I don't really understand why a player who will create chances is being left out of the squad. I don't necessarily think that he should be in the first team, but if we need a goal in the last 15-20 mins against Israel there are very few players I'd rather see come off the bench than Beckham.




Hardcore Raver -> RE: The England Football Thread (16/3/2007 2:29:15 PM)

Squad to face Israel & Andorra

Robinson (Tottenham), Foster (Man Utd, on loan at Watford), Carson (Liverpool, on loan at Charlton), Neville (Man Utd), Richards (Man City), Ferdinand (Man Utd), Terry (Chelsea, capt), Woodgate (Real Madrid, on loan at Middlesbrough), Carragher (Liverpool), A Cole (Chelsea), P Neville (Everton), Gerrard (Liverpool), Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), Lampard (Chelsea), Lennon (Tottenham), Parker (Newcastle), Carrick (Man Utd), Dyer (Newcastle), Downing (Middlesbrough), Johnson (Everton), Rooney (Man Utd), Defoe (Tottenham), Bent (Charlton).

Well no real surprises there. Looks like we'll have either Carragher (hopefully) or P Neville (please no) playing left-back. I actually hope we start with Downing. Not because I think he's a great player but because he is naturally a left-sided player, and we saw what a mess we looked when we played with two players out of position on the left against Spain. I wonder how McClaren will manage to fit Lampard into the team. My guess is Gerrard on the right, Hargreaves & Lampard in the middle and Lennon on the left, though against Israel we might play five in midfield with Downing playing on the left, Gerrard joining Hargreaves and Lampard in the middle, and Lennon playing on the right. Not sure who I'd start up front on their own though. Possibly Andy Johnson.




Sexual Harassment Panda -> RE: The England Football Thread (16/3/2007 2:50:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hardcore Raver

Squad to face Israel & Andorra

Robinson (Tottenham), Foster (Man Utd, on loan at Watford), Carson (Liverpool, on loan at Charlton), Neville (Man Utd), Richards (Man City), Ferdinand (Man Utd), Terry (Chelsea, capt), Woodgate (Real Madrid, on loan at Middlesbrough), Carragher (Liverpool), A Cole (Chelsea), P Neville (Everton), Gerrard (Liverpool), Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), Lampard (Chelsea), Lennon (Tottenham), Parker (Newcastle), Carrick (Man Utd), Dyer (Newcastle), Downing (Middlesbrough), Johnson (Everton), Rooney (Man Utd), Defoe (Tottenham), Bent (Charlton).

Well no real surprises there. Looks like we'll have either Carragher (hopefully) or P Neville (please no) playing left-back. I actually hope we start with Downing. Not because I think he's a great player but because he is naturally a left-sided player, and we saw what a mess we looked when we played with two players out of position on the left against Spain. I wonder how McClaren will manage to fit Lampard into the team. My guess is Gerrard on the right, Hargreaves & Lampard in the middle and Lennon on the left, though against Israel we might play five in midfield with Downing playing on the left, Gerrard joining Hargreaves and Lampard in the middle, and Lennon playing on the right. Not sure who I'd start up front on their own though. Possibly Andy Johnson.


Phil Neville is a great player I don't get why people treat him so badly.




Hardcore Raver -> RE: The England Football Thread (16/3/2007 2:57:38 PM)

He's a decent player, wouldn't say great, but I think the performance against Spain showed that he cannot play at left back. Not at international standard anyway.




Beno -> RE: The England Football Thread (16/3/2007 3:01:36 PM)

In my book you should play a basic attacking 4-4-2 in the upcoming games ,its what the players feel more comfy with im sure, but on another subject im at a loss as to who id play up front. Out of the strikers in the newly named squad i only rate Rooney good enough to wear an England shirt.




Flatulent_Bob -> RE: The England Football Thread (16/3/2007 3:02:31 PM)

Because he is ex Man Utd Nath its as simple as that.

As for England see my previous posts the side should be:

                        Foster,
Neville,      Ferdinand, Terry,     Neville,

                   Hargreaves,
               Lampard, Gerrard

      Lennon                   Rooney
                     Johnson

Its that fucking easy, make a statement of intent and go for it. 
Of course McClaren will pick a different side different formation and we might just squeek through with the result we need.

I take Mr ravers point but Israel aren't international standard in the truest sense of the word.  Phil will be good enough for then and Andorra.




Beno -> RE: The England Football Thread (16/3/2007 3:15:30 PM)

I like the cut of your jip Flatulant Bob how bout this :

                            FOSTER
G.NEVILLE   FERDINAND   TERRY   COLE

DYER   GERRARD   CARRICK   DOWNING

                     LENNON
                             ROONEY

To start with at any rate.




Flatulent_Bob -> RE: The England Football Thread (16/3/2007 3:18:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beno

I like the cut of your jip Flatulant Bob how bout this :

                           FOSTER
G.NEVILLE   FERDINAND   TERRY   COLE

DYER   GERRARD   CARRICK   DOWNING

                    LENNON
                            ROONEY

To start with at any rate.


Well I don't think Carrick can play infront of Hargreaves. Cole is suspended.
I think Dyer is more suited to the withdrawn role certainly more than Lennon and Rooney drops deep leaving no-one to go beyond and stretch the central two.

Apart from that I love it [:D]




Beno -> RE: The England Football Thread (16/3/2007 3:46:06 PM)

I forgot about Cole, i thought Dyer n Lennon could swap about n Rooney can do as hes told n not drop too deep unless needed...... that said im not sure about Downing now????




jesseLujack -> RE: The England Football Thread (16/3/2007 4:24:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beno

I like the cut of your jip Flatulant Bob how bout this :

                          FOSTER
G.NEVILLE   FERDINAND   TERRY   COLE

DYER   GERRARD   CARRICK   DOWNING

                   LENNON
                           ROONEY

To start with at any rate.


Well I don't think Carrick can play infront of Hargreaves. Cole is suspended.
I think Dyer is more suited to the withdrawn role certainly more than Lennon and Rooney drops deep leaving no-one to go beyond and stretch the central two.

Apart from that I love it [:D]



I really dont see how you can put Gerrard or Carrick in front of Lampard.  Hes had a great season and scored 20 goals for an underperforming Chelsea midfield.

IMHO Gerrard has had a poor season and if he is to start anywhere it should be on the right in place of Dyer with Hargreaves (although I prefer Parker it wont happen) playing in the centre with Lampard.

And Downing, fuck me I dont think I've ever seen a less dynamic Left winger.  I would stick Lennon on the left and Rooney and Bent or Defoe up top.

As for Neville if Beckham was considered dead wood and surplus to requirements then how does McLaren justify playing an aging Neville who was never up to scratvh even in his prime? I would rather Baines, Bale or ideally Barry as previously mentioned




Flatulent_Bob -> RE: The England Football Thread (7/8/2007 12:06:00 PM)

Carragher back in the England fold?   What do you guys think?  

Its a definate no no for me, I'd rather bring someone else through if he doesn't want to be considered for the squad.




Rinc -> RE: The England Football Thread (7/8/2007 12:16:11 PM)

I'd be disappointed if Carragher let himself be selected. Although he did say he'd play for England if injuries meant he was needed so he never really ruled himself completely out. But i think Carragher should stick to his guns and not come back. After all if King and Woodgate weren't injured and Terry needed replacing would Carragher be given the nod? Probably not from what he said when he 'retired' plus as just a friendly i doubt he'd be given a starting place if his 'retirement' hadn't happened. I agree with you Bob i'd rather a youngster was given the chance as that's what i see the main point of friendlies as. Steven Taylor should be given a run out.




Flatulent_Bob -> RE: The England Football Thread (13/8/2007 1:25:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc
I agree with you Bob i'd rather a youngster was given the chance as that's what i see the main point of friendlies as. Steven Taylor should be given a run out.


What about Richards as Centre Back if he keep on performing like he did against West Ham on Saturday.




Professor Moriarty -> RE: The England Football Thread (15/8/2007 7:01:26 AM)

Wigan striker Emile Heskey may earn a recall for England's friendly against Germany on 22 August. (Daily Star)

Someone please tell me things haven't got this bad.  From promoting an image of a manager who was going to be 'in with the new' we have the rumoured return of Sol Campbell, and now this crime against football.




Flatulent_Bob -> RE: The England Football Thread (15/8/2007 1:45:36 PM)

Good article by "Fatty" Samuel today about McClaren making the same mistakes as Sven in relation to rushing Owen and Rooney back.

I agreed wholeheartedly that we need to prepare for the Israel and Russia games without them.

He also backs the 4-3-3 formation which I have been banging on about for what seems like forever.

Without our 2 main strikers he need to go with a lone striker, coupled with goalscoring midfielders.  It also enables this England side to actually play to its strengths.

Our Defence maybe cut to ribbons thanks to injuries but it is an area where we are well stocked.  Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand are the only first choice players fit at this time but with Terry, King, Carragher, Woodgate all out I think we should look to either Taylor, Richards or even Sol Campbell if you want to play it safe with an old head.  I'd go for Taylor with Richards covering right back if Neville doesn't play although if Richards continues to play as he did Saturday I think he might also be worth a nod at Centre half alongside Rio.

In midfield 4-3-3 solves the whole Gerrard or Lampard debate as they both play side by side with Hargreaves holding in behind them.

Up top we have the tough decisions to make you have to pick one striker from Darren Bent, Andy Johnson, David Nugent, and Jermain Defoe. Which is my opinion is one from AJ and Bent.   AJ would get my vote because he is playing regularly and his workrate is unbeliveable which might be just what we need.  Eitherside of him I think SWP deserves the right hand side over Bentley. He has kuckled down and got himself into the Chelsea side not without a little bit of luck due to injuries etc but the lad has been impressive in his first two starts this season.  Then finally the problematic left side would probably be filled by Joe Cole.


Should Owen or Rooney play before hand and prove their form and fitness then we can make changes but to not have a plan B al la Sven would be a case of lessons not learnt.




brightlight -> RE: The England Football Thread (15/8/2007 2:40:55 PM)

                                 Robinson

                    Lescott            Ferdinand

Richards                                                        Cashley
                              Hargreaves
                Carrick                    Gerrard

    Bentley                                              Cole
                                Johnson

Bently deserves his chance, I appreciate your point about Wright-Phillips determination to get in the Chelsea team (for how long remains to be seen) but Bentley is plainly better than him at football. Johnson only gets in for me because Defoe (for some inexplicable reason)) isn't playing regulary, despit being, in my view, twice the player the Everton forward could ever be. Carrick should play ahead of Lampard just to give the fat nonce a boot in the plums and Lescott has doe more to impress me than Taylor.




Flatulent_Bob -> RE: The England Football Thread (15/8/2007 3:02:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightlight

                                Robinson

                   Lescott            Ferdinand

Richards                                                        Cashley
                             Hargreaves
               Carrick                    Gerrard

   Bentley                                              Cole
                               Johnson

Bently deserves his chance, I appreciate your point about Wright-Phillips determination to get in the Chelsea team (for how long remains to be seen) but Bentley is plainly better than him at football. Johnson only gets in for me because Defoe (for some inexplicable reason)) isn't playing regulary, despit being, in my view, twice the player the Everton forward could ever be. Carrick should play ahead of Lampard just to give the fat nonce a boot in the plums and Lescott has doe more to impress me than Taylor.


The inexlicable reason is that Defoe is shit his lack of awareness and plain greed when in good positions aren't good enough for a top 6 side and he doesn't score enough goals. Lescott has been playing mainly left back and to be honest looks more confortable there than centre half and I can't agree with Carrick inclusion when the idea of 4-3-3 is that you get goals from midfield. Lampard record is far superior to Carricks as are his performances for England which actually says something about how poor Carrick has been for England.




The Lensman -> RE: The England Football Thread (15/8/2007 3:06:07 PM)

i think its really sad to say - but ive lost so much interest with England at the moment because of performances and McClaren genius-ness




brightlight -> RE: The England Football Thread (15/8/2007 5:59:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightlight

                               Robinson

                  Lescott            Ferdinand

Richards                                                        Cashley
                            Hargreaves
              Carrick                    Gerrard

  Bentley                                              Cole
                              Johnson

Bently deserves his chance, I appreciate your point about Wright-Phillips determination to get in the Chelsea team (for how long remains to be seen) but Bentley is plainly better than him at football. Johnson only gets in for me because Defoe (for some inexplicable reason)) isn't playing regulary, despit being, in my view, twice the player the Everton forward could ever be. Carrick should play ahead of Lampard just to give the fat nonce a boot in the plums and Lescott has doe more to impress me than Taylor.


The inexlicable reason is that Defoe is shit his lack of awareness and plain greed when in good positions aren't good enough for a top 6 side and he doesn't score enough goals. Lescott has been playing mainly left back and to be honest looks more confortable there than centre half and I can't agree with Carrick inclusion when the idea of 4-3-3 is that you get goals from midfield. Lampard record is far superior to Carricks as are his performances for England which actually says something about how poor Carrick has been for England.


What completenonsense. Defoe's touch and finishing prowess make him much better suited to international football than Andy Johnson, saying he isn't good enough for a top six side is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard - he is a properly dangerous and unpredictable forward, something England are sorely lacking. I'm afraid I'm going to side with the vast majority of ex-top class strikers who think he's an excelent player over you, Bob.

Lescott has played leftback for about half a season of his career so far, and that through neccessity. He doesn't exactly gallop down the wings, does he? Moyes sees him as a centre half and he will return there as soon as Baines is fit.

I though I made my reason for picking Carrick pretty clear, but whilst we're at it I might as well make a case for his inclsion based purely on merit. Carrick is in no way the holding midfielder he has been labelled (bizarrely) by certain sources, he is an old-school playmaker. His touch, vision and range of passing is a significant improvement on Lampard's and his deeper position would help feed Gerrard for him to score, as opposed to him and Fatty going for the same balls. Let's not forget Carrick scored a few last season himself, and will score more this with Hargreaves along side him. Frank brings goals to the side and that is it, if he isn't scoring he is entirely worthless.




Rinc -> RE: The England Football Thread (15/8/2007 8:17:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brightlight

What completenonsense. Defoe's touch and finishing prowess make him much better suited to international football than Andy Johnson, saying he isn't good enough for a top six side is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard - he is a properly dangerous and unpredictable forward, something England are sorely lacking. I'm afraid I'm going to side with the vast majority of ex-top class strikers who think he's an excelent player over you, Bob.


I am and have always been with Bob over Defoe. I don't rate him either. He's not good enough for a top 6 side hence why he starts on the bench on Spurs. His finishing prowess is almost non existent and he has only ever consistently scored when he was at Bournemouth - a Second Division side. For England he has been given countless chances and only scored 3 in 24 appearances. Not really the record of a top class striker with finishing prowess is it? Also his strength on the ball is laughable and his positioning and decision making is poor. Andy Johnson will trouble the opposition and run for 90 minutes and not only make chances for himself but for his teammates as well.




brightlight -> RE: The England Football Thread (15/8/2007 9:50:49 PM)

He's scored one in three at both West Ham and Spurs, which includes a significant amount of sub appearances. Johnson has scored one in three with Everton having started almost all of those and one in nine at Birmingham. He got one in two with Palace, all of which apart from a season (of a good few penalties) were in the first division. I don't know where this assumption Defoe doesn't score a lot of goals comes from, he knocked in ten league goals last season hardly ever playing. He is a natural finisher, he sniffs goals from anywhere and may well be selfish - but all the best goalscorers are. I'd take Defoe's potential for magic over Johnson's workrate any day of the week, I know who I'd prefer to play against, too.




Rinc -> RE: The England Football Thread (15/8/2007 11:20:54 PM)

Ok yeah Johnson's scoring record isn't great but then i can counter that by saying Defoe has been playing for a more attacking team and a better team overall than Johnson. Defoe should've scored more especially as he played far more than you said. In fact he started 20 premier league games last season and made a sub appearance in 14. It's not exactly 'hardly ever playing.' And i think his international record speaks for itself. He has been given the chance for England before and never done enough to deserve a place. I also wouldn't say Defoe has a potential for magic either and i personally would prefer a player with the workrate of Johnson up front.

Also bearing in mind in the above formation the striker would be responsible for holding up the ball and bringing the other players into attack. Neither of which Defoe is any good at.




brightlight -> RE: The England Football Thread (15/8/2007 11:31:36 PM)

10 goals in 20 starts is pretty goo if you ask me. He is lively and unpredictable, Johnson is too easy to defend against.




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