RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (Full Version)

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Ref -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (22/10/2013 12:31:03 PM)

Must admit that I can't remember the Sauron time line in The Hobbit. I'll have a take a butchers at the LoTRs Appendixes.

In the meantime, here are some pictures of Cumberbatch mo-capping for Smaug:~

This Way!




Alistair -> The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (23/10/2013 4:02:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref

Must admit that I can't remember the Sauron time line in The Hobbit. I'll have a take a butchers at the LoTRs Appendixes.

In the meantime, here are some pictures of Cumberbatch mo-capping for Smaug:~

This Way!


Cool pics! Looks like that may be a new production diary?

As for Sauron - I think the most that comes of him in the overall timeline is that he tries to avoid the White Council and flees to Mordor from Dol Goldur. This will probably be fleshed out in the next two films to make it a bit more meaty. I doubt that Gandalf will confront Sauron, but in the timeline he does get confirmation of Sauron's existence (can't remember how).

Problem is that in Fellowship, Jackson makes Gandalf a bit of a detective to find out more about the One Ring and Sauron's emerging power, as there were no Hobbit films to flesh this out back when it was made. Might make the beginning of Fellowship seem a little...conflicting when these new films are said and done.

I'm very interested and quite excited to see what Jackson does with Sauron, as I believe this is a great aspect to flesh out that is only really hinted at by Tolkien.




Ref -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (23/10/2013 10:39:16 PM)

Ta for the Hobbit!Sauron history, Alistair. Going by what PJ did with Gandalf in AUJ, I reckon that he'll be more investigative in DoS. As we have already seen him slightly question Bilbo on what he found in the caves and not quite believing Bilbo with the answer that was given.

I am too hoping for a Production Video, as it;s been a mightily long time since the last one [:D]

And not to leave you all empty handed, here's a mini-interview with Luke 'Bard' Evans:~

Courtesy of Hit Fix







Alistair -> The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (24/10/2013 9:23:12 AM)

I love the way McKellen played that moment at the end of An Unexpected Journey – A suspicious glance at Bilbo as he places the ring in his pocket (and brilliantly shot, too). Gandalf has an inkling at that point I think, but probably doesn’t really believe it to be the One Ring because, let’s face it – What would be the chances of Bilbo finding the ring?




Ref -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (24/10/2013 9:13:02 PM)

A clear picture of human!Boern courtesy of ONTD:~

Follow Me!

Still not sure to be honest [&:]




Whistler -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (24/10/2013 9:19:24 PM)

Well I must admit it looks nothing like how I pictured Beorn, but my mind's open.




Ref -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (25/10/2013 12:45:57 PM)

I saw him more a just a very tall and broad man whilst in human form. However, you're right Whistler - we shall have to wait until the film.

Some more goodies courtesy of TORn this time: more pictures from the official calendar:~

Clicky!




musht -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (7/11/2013 10:00:41 PM)

Just heard the Ed Sheeran song [:'(]

I enjoyed the first film and am looking forward to Desolation but it really does show what a money spinner this is that they got someone like Ed Sheeran to do a song. Maybe I'm being overly harsh.

Either way the song is still crap.




MDG_78 -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (12/11/2013 3:56:44 PM)

quote:

Just heard the Ed Sheeran song

I enjoyed the first film and am looking forward to Desolation but it really does show what a money spinner this is that they got someone like Ed Sheeran to do a song. Maybe I'm being overly harsh.

Either way the song is still crap.


Not a fan of him either. Then again I remember when I read that Enya would be doing a track for The Fellowship soundtrack and cringed a bit at the thought. Shouldn't have though, the track was very good, the first few times I heard it her voice gave me goosebumps. Liked the Gollum song, thought Annie Lennox track was he weakest of the LOTR films, preferred Billy Boyd's tune in ROTK.

Got tickets booked for BFI Imax opening day - hope it's good but really think the scenes between Smaug and Bilbo will make this film just like the Riddles in the Dark scenes made the first Hobbit film.




Alistair -> The Desolation Of Smaug (21/11/2013 9:21:01 PM)

This is pretty fantastic:

http://middle-earth.thehobbit.com/

It's an interactive Middle Earth map (with a quite amazing Google Earth-style map of Middle Earth). What I found most lovely though was the music - I think they're letting us in on the soundtrack for 'Desolation'. If you click on the Rivendell bit and choose to explore it there's a piece of music that's very much the same as the piece that plays after Gandalf falls with the Balrog in 'Fellowship'. But this piece has a slow drum and is quite epic. Hope this is a new piece of music by Shore. It's fantastic.




Gimli The Dwarf -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (22/11/2013 10:03:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

This is pretty fantastic:

http://middle-earth.thehobbit.com/

It's an interactive Middle Earth map (with a quite amazing Google Earth-style map of Middle Earth). What I found most lovely though was the music - I think they're letting us in on the soundtrack for 'Desolation'. If you click on the Rivendell bit and choose to explore it there's a piece of music that's very much the same as the piece that plays after Gandalf falls with the Balrog in 'Fellowship'. But this piece has a slow drum and is quite epic. Hope this is a new piece of music by Shore. It's fantastic.



Just had a little look and can see myself messing about on there for quite a while. Have yet to hear the music you mention though. I keep getting the music for Gandalf but no drums.




Ref -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (25/11/2013 3:30:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

This is pretty fantastic:

http://middle-earth.thehobbit.com/

It's an interactive Middle Earth map (with a quite amazing Google Earth-style map of Middle Earth). What I found most lovely though was the music - I think they're letting us in on the soundtrack for 'Desolation'. If you click on the Rivendell bit and choose to explore it there's a piece of music that's very much the same as the piece that plays after Gandalf falls with the Balrog in 'Fellowship'. But this piece has a slow drum and is quite epic. Hope this is a new piece of music by Shore. It's fantastic.


When in the Dol Guldor, I keep getting killed by the Witch-King! Damn him [:D].

So not long now people, I've got my tickets booked for standard 2-D on the 16th December. However, it's in the Director's Hall, baby! Can't really be arsed with 3-D - I find it doesn't really work in most films.




Alistair -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (26/11/2013 11:14:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref
When in the Dol Guldor, I keep getting killed by the Witch-King! Damn him [:D].


I think that's actually Sauron! Creepy as hell. I got dragged away by him semi-conscious at one point!

I hope the Dol Guldur scenes are as creepy as this in the film - They're the scenes I'm most looking forward to.




AxlReznor -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (26/11/2013 11:55:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref
When in the Dol Guldor, I keep getting killed by the Witch-King! Damn him [:D].


I think that's actually Sauron! Creepy as hell. I got dragged away by him semi-conscious at one point!

I hope the Dol Guldur scenes are as creepy as this in the film - They're the scenes I'm most looking forward to.



SPOILER:
Yeah... in the supplemental material that the films are drawing from, at first the White Council (Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel and Elrond) believe that the Necromancer is a Nazgul, only to realise later that it was Sauron attempting to take on human form once more. They do battle with him and think they've defeated him, but he really retreats to Mordor, thus setting up the events of The Lord Of The Rings.
Which pretty much sums up why I believe the parts in the movies that aren't in the book are vital, and it just wouldn't seem right to not include them, as it provides more understanding of what was going on in Lord Of The Rings.




Ref -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (26/11/2013 2:52:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref
When in the Dol Guldor, I keep getting killed by the Witch-King! Damn him [:D].


I think that's actually Sauron! Creepy as hell. I got dragged away by him semi-conscious at one point!


What an absolute bastard [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair
I hope the Dol Guldur scenes are as creepy as this in the film - They're the scenes I'm most looking forward to.



quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

SPOILER:
Yeah... in the supplemental material that the films are drawing from, at first the White Council (Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel and Elrond) believe that the Necromancer is a Nazgul, only to realise later that it was Sauron attempting to take on human form once more. They do battle with him and think they've defeated him, but he really retreats to Mordor, thus setting up the events of The Lord Of The Rings.
Which pretty much sums up why I believe the parts in the movies that aren't in the book are vital, and it just wouldn't seem right to not include them, as it provides more understanding of what was going on in Lord Of The Rings.


Very much agree with the both of you. The Dol Guldor scenes are needed to explain as to why Gandy keeps on disappearing all the time.




Gimli The Dwarf -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (27/11/2013 10:45:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

SPOILER:
Yeah... in the supplemental material that the films are drawing from, at first the White Council (Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel and Elrond) believe that the Necromancer is a Nazgul, only to realise later that it was Sauron attempting to take on human form once more. They do battle with him and think they've defeated him, but he really retreats to Mordor, thus setting up the events of The Lord Of The Rings.
Which pretty much sums up why I believe the parts in the movies that aren't in the book are vital, and it just wouldn't seem right to not include them, as it provides more understanding of what was going on in Lord Of The Rings.



And these are valid reasons for making three films, but it's hard to get some people to accept this [:D]




Alistair -> The Desolation Of Smaug (27/11/2013 11:21:25 AM)

I love that they are delving in to the appendices to flesh-out vital plot points. Tolkien only mentions these things in sentences, and it's gripping stuff, so I wish he'd fleshed it out more. But Jackson is doing this, which is great. If they don't do it now, it will never be done. And it's important to the overall understanding of Sauron in the bridge to the LOTR trilogy.

As I mentioned previously - I hope we see Sauron becoming the eye in the final film. I think it's important that they do this as it is a very abstract concept (a lot of Tolkien's history of Middle Earth is abstract). May work well in a book, but visually in a film it was a difficult concept to sell (they did a good job, but it's still very confusing). I think a lot of people were watching it thinking "What? A floating eye!?". How did the floating eye come to be? How did Sauron, who is clearly human-like in Dol Guldur (albeit not fully formed) turn in to a big eye?




rich -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (27/11/2013 10:42:53 PM)

The problem is that lighthouse Sauron is a stupid interpretation of what it means when they say "the eye". It's more symbolic that his spies are watching rather than a giant fricking eyeball. Sauron is human-ish during LotR - I think there is a part where Gollum is tortured for information and sees that his fingers are missing still.




Alistair -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (27/11/2013 11:58:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich
The problem is that lighthouse Sauron is a stupid interpretation of what it means when they say "the eye". It's more symbolic that his spies are watching rather than a giant fricking eyeball. Sauron is human-ish during LotR - I think there is a part where Gollum is tortured for information and sees that his fingers are missing still.


That rings a bells actually!

I think that the most frustrating things about the Middle Earth saga (in terms of the films) is that there's no tangible main villain. In the Harry Potter series there is building threat of Voldemort's return which adds genuine tension, but with The Hobbit and LOTR that threat will never materialise, and the main villain is essentially a floating eye (which is bizarre). I understand the criticisms of 'The Eye' in the films, but I think Jackson was probably a little stuck with Sauron. The only time he's ever a proper villain is at the very beginning of Fellowship...and he's badass...and then he's kinda dead.

Interestingly, those who have seen the 'Making of' documentaries in the Extended Editions will know that the troll that Aragorn fights outside the Black Gates in ROTK was originally Sauron, who has taken his physical form again. They decided against this in the end and super-imposed the giant troll on top of the actor playing Sauron. So even Jackson was stumped about what to actually do with the character, in the end.

It seems that we will see Sauron in the next two films as a floating, smoky black figure, with orange eyes. That's creepy in itself and at least it gives the main villain some tangible form. Even more so with Benedict Cumberbatch playing him (or his voice). To what extent we will see Sauron, who knows, but Jackson will be in his element with the Dol Guldur scenes, this much I'm certain!

In the end, Sauron is Darth Vader. But we only see Darth Vader for about 30 seconds and we're left with three Star Wars films without Darth Vader.




AxlReznor -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (28/11/2013 8:09:05 AM)

It's made very clear in the books that Sauron has no physical form, and the big flaming eye is literal. Sometimes he may be able to project things, but at the most in the books that is an arm during the torture scene and just before he disappears after the destruction of the ring.

Basically... he's a badass. The only person more badass than him is Morgoth. If he had taken on physical form again, there'd be no stopping him. He needed the ring to take on physical form again. He nearly managed it without it once, but was overpowered by Gandalf and the White Council. But once he got ahold of the ring, he wouldn't have needed all of the "agents" he'd gotten to do his dirty work for him, because he would have been able to do it all himself.




Ref -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (28/11/2013 5:27:21 PM)

Some more pictures of DoS have been released:~

This Way!

I cannot wait to see the barrel scene [:D]




Alistair -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (28/11/2013 11:45:04 PM)

Thanks for the link - Cool pics. You know the shit has hit the fan when Gandalf ain't got his hat on!




Ref -> RE: The Desolation Of Smaug (2/12/2013 1:36:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

You know the shit has hit the fan when Gandalf ain't got his hat on!


A bit like Indy in that respect. And peeps Empire have kindly put up some pictures of Smaug on a Mother-F**king Plane!:~

This way, mofos.




rossmon -> (2/12/2013 8:30:14 PM)

I can't believe Benedick Cumberbatch is the dragon. Can't wait to go and see it and the last one.




Ref -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (3/12/2013 3:37:34 AM)

Just finished watching the live feed of the première, now time to sleep methinks. Armitage and his Smaug impression though - nice.

EDIT: I must point out that if anyone is looking to watch the première back, the dude from the Live Stream did have a fair few spoilers (which pissed me off somewhat) - so beware and watch at your own risk.




Dr Lenera -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (3/12/2013 8:46:41 AM)

I guess I'm the only one who thinks this looks really poor, even weaker than the first one. Jackson and co. really seem to be making up and adding shit as they to along to justify having three films. For a start Legolas, what the fuck is he doing in it,except to sell more tickets? Going by what I've seen and heard, about half of this movie wasn't in the book. Jackson, you're pissing on Tolkien, and this is coming from someone who adored his LOTR.




Alistair -> The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (3/12/2013 10:05:55 AM)

I don’t mind the fact that the story has been padded out. I mean, the story does exist – It’s in the appendices. It’s just that Jackson and co. have taken what was merely suggested by Tolkien and expanded on it for the purpose of their film universe. In light of the book itself it makes little sense, but from the perspective of the entire film series it makes perfect sense. If you enjoy the films, then why would you complain about them being padded out? That argument doesn’t make sense to me. I enjoy the fact that there’s more to see that was only ever hinted at by Tolkien. It’s the most interesting stuff.

The timeline is all to cock too, but it doesn’t matter. In the timeline of the appendices Gandalf goes to Dol Guldur before Bilbo is even born, but for the films it makes perfect sense in order to flesh it all out.




AxlReznor -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (3/12/2013 10:54:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr Lenera

I guess I'm the only one who thinks this looks really poor, even weaker than the first one. Jackson and co. really seem to be making up and adding shit as they to along to justify having three films. For a start Legolas, what the fuck is he doing in it,except to sell more tickets? Going by what I've seen and heard, about half of this movie wasn't in the book. Jackson, you're pissing on Tolkien, and this is coming from someone who adored his LOTR.


Legolas is the son of Thranduil, the Elf King. The only reason he isn't in the book is because Tolkien hadn't created him yet. It's reasonable to assume he would have been involved... in fact, it's completely unthinkable that he wouldn't have been.

Plus, as Alistair has said, it's all in other material that Tolkien wrote about what was going on at the time of The Hobbit with other characters, like when Gandalf left to go do other things. Read the Appendices and Unfinished Tales and you will see that they aren't making anything up, and it's all vital information in order to gain a better understanding of why they company of dwarves are doing what they're doing and what is going on in The Lord Of The Rings. It's not all being made up by Peter Jackson and co.




AxlReznor -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (3/12/2013 10:56:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref

Just finished watching the live feed of the première, now time to sleep methinks. Armitage and his Smaug impression though - nice.

EDIT: I must point out that if anyone is looking to watch the première back, the dude from the Live Stream did have a fair few spoilers (which pissed me off somewhat) - so beware and watch at your own risk.


What kind of spoilers were they? It might have been that the dude from the live stream didn't consider plot details from an 80 year old book that most of the world has read at some point to be spoilers.




Ref -> RE: The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug (3/12/2013 11:45:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref

Just finished watching the live feed of the première, now time to sleep methinks. Armitage and his Smaug impression though - nice.

EDIT: I must point out that if anyone is looking to watch the première back, the dude from the Live Stream did have a fair few spoilers (which pissed me off somewhat) - so beware and watch at your own risk.


What kind of spoilers were they? It might have been that the dude from the live stream didn't consider plot details from an 80 year old book that most of the world has read at some point to be spoilers.


Some spoilers from the book (which we know already), but he spoke of the padded out scenes SPOILERS *Smaug's bad breath and Bilbo's reaction to it, the Kili-Tauriel-Legolas love triangle, Kili/Fili splitting up in the film and how they cope, Gandy fighting Azog* and said something (or rather alluded to) about the final scene.




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