RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (Full Version)

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adambatman82 -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 6:47:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs
Not been accused of anything just pointing out the accusation happy society we live in these days.


Interesting. I've never been accused of anything like that myself, nor do I know anyone who has. Must be a London thing.




adambatman82 -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 6:48:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

^^ I agree, but its that 48 years bit that gets me, that is a long ass time!



For once we agree on something. I bet those 48 years must have been absolute hell for the alleged victims.




Phubbs -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 6:51:13 PM)

I deal with the public a lot in my job, people tend to jump to all manner of accusations all the time, interacting with someone the wrong way can result in assault claims [8|]
and yes London is a bubbling cauldron of problems.




DancingClown -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 6:52:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs
and yes London is a bubbling cauldron of problems.


It's 'cos of them bloody ethnics, innit!




sanchia -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 6:52:56 PM)

To play devils advocate a conviction is still pending and the actual details are not available as to what the charges fully relate to. We have to be careful not to fall into the baying mob mentality of being charged automatically means guilt. That said no matter the amount of time which has passed if a crime has been committed i am quite glad that people are still charged. hopefully this will make people who have committed a crime a long time ago feel less safe and also make others think twice before committing such a crime.




horribleives -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 6:53:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs
Not been accused of anything just pointing out the accusation happy society we live in these days.


Interesting. I've never been accused of anything like that myself, nor do I know anyone who has. Must be a London thing.


I've heard it's full of foreignish folk too. A whole cauldron of the buggers.




Phubbs -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 7:07:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

To play devils advocate a conviction is still pending and the actual details are not available as to what the charges fully relate to. We have to be careful not to fall into the baying mob mentality of being charged automatically means guilt. That said no matter the amount of time which has passed if a crime has been committed i am quite glad that people are still charged. hopefully this will make people who have committed a crime a long time ago feel less safe and also make others think twice before committing such a crime.



I just don't see how anyone can claim/prove something from up to 48 years ago, if it was murder then yes of course, but this is purely on word of mouth. The person making the claim could get a close friend to claim they saw it or was present at the time etc...it just seems to me its down to whoever can come up with the better stories and get the jury on their side.




sanchia -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 7:14:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs


quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

To play devils advocate a conviction is still pending and the actual details are not available as to what the charges fully relate to. We have to be careful not to fall into the baying mob mentality of being charged automatically means guilt. That said no matter the amount of time which has passed if a crime has been committed i am quite glad that people are still charged. hopefully this will make people who have committed a crime a long time ago feel less safe and also make others think twice before committing such a crime.



I just don't see how anyone can claim/prove something from up to 48 years ago, if it was murder then yes of course, but this is purely on word of mouth. The person making the claim could get a close friend to claim they saw it or was present at the time etc...it just seems to me its down to whoever can come up with the better stories and get the jury on their side.


It can be done and it has been done before. It is a difficult thing to do though and if someone did commit a crime such as mentioned there should not be the safety of time to prevent a prosecution from taking place. If there is the evidence then all well and good but it must a difficult thing to prove. At the same time , sadly with the jury system it is always the case of who can tell a better story and get the jury on their side with many cases where members of juries will bring their own bias and hatred to a case and ignore the evidence presented. This probably happens every day in Britain.




Phubbs -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 7:21:01 PM)

Dare I say a female might have the better chance of getting the jury on her side in a case like this? especially with all the other stars getting in trouble?.




porntrooper -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 7:28:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs


quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

To play devils advocate a conviction is still pending and the actual details are not available as to what the charges fully relate to. We have to be careful not to fall into the baying mob mentality of being charged automatically means guilt. That said no matter the amount of time which has passed if a crime has been committed i am quite glad that people are still charged. hopefully this will make people who have committed a crime a long time ago feel less safe and also make others think twice before committing such a crime.



I just don't see how anyone can claim/prove something from up to 48 years ago, if it was murder then yes of course, but this is purely on word of mouth. The person making the claim could get a close friend to claim they saw it or was present at the time etc...it just seems to me its down to whoever can come up with the better stories and get the jury on their side.


I don't think anyone has any illusions on how difficult something like this is to prove, given the time that has passed. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be investigated. We don't know what the facts are or what evidence has been gathered. If there is sufficient evidence to proceed, we should expect and hope that the investigation will run it's course and a jury will reach a decision based upon that evidence (guilty verdict or not). If there is none, I am sure the process will not reach that conclusion and the investigation would end. In the case of Clifford, I suspect they're must be some kind of strong evidence given they've chosen to actually file charges. How strong that evidence is I dunno, the jury will have to reach a decision based on it, and again, surely that's all we can ask for in any case of this sort. Regardless of time passed, if someone that feels they're the victim of a crime they have every right to report that alleged crime and to expect it to be investigated appropriately.




Shifty Bench -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 7:32:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs


quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

To play devils advocate a conviction is still pending and the actual details are not available as to what the charges fully relate to. We have to be careful not to fall into the baying mob mentality of being charged automatically means guilt. That said no matter the amount of time which has passed if a crime has been committed i am quite glad that people are still charged. hopefully this will make people who have committed a crime a long time ago feel less safe and also make others think twice before committing such a crime.



I just don't see how anyone can claim/prove something from up to 48 years ago, if it was murder then yes of course, but this is purely on word of mouth. The person making the claim could get a close friend to claim they saw it or was present at the time etc...it just seems to me its down to whoever can come up with the better stories and get the jury on their side.


But if it is true, it shouldn't be ignored.




Phubbs -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (29/4/2013 7:51:37 PM)

Yep I agree on all those points. I just find it hard to think what kind of evidence the police could have in a case like this which occurred 48 years ago and is (or seems to be) word of mouth (seeing as they have filed charges). Guess we'll see soon enough.




DancingClown -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 11:29:03 AM)

Bill Roache:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22366981

Interesting, considering his crass and ignorant comments about sexual-abuse victims a couple of months back.




emogeek -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 11:44:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Bill Roache:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22366981

Interesting, considering his crass and ignorant comments about sexual-abuse victims a couple of months back.


And was he not boasting a while ago about having slept with thousands of women?

EDIT: Which, of course, does not prove anything. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.




homersimpson_esq -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 11:52:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

Dare I say a female might have the better chance of getting the jury on her side in a case like this? especially with all the other stars getting in trouble?.


Yeah, that's what this thread has been missing: sexism.




jonson -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 12:12:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Bill Roache:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22366981

Interesting, considering his crass and ignorant comments about sexual-abuse victims a couple of months back.


I've done a lot of work for him, so much in fact that he's one of my celebrity endorsements.
I have 7000 brochures with his picture in. I think I'm lighting a bonfire tonight. [:@]




horribleives -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 12:22:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Bill Roache:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22366981

Interesting, considering his crass and ignorant comments about sexual-abuse victims a couple of months back.


I've done a lot of work for him, so much in fact that he's one of my celebrity endorsements.
I have 7000 brochures with his picture in. I think I'm lighting a bonfire tonight. [:@]


What, you didn't do that when he kicked Blanche out?




MonsterCat -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 12:29:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson

I've done a lot of work for him, so much in fact that he's one of my celebrity endorsements.
I have 7000 brochures with his picture in. I think I'm lighting a bonfire tonight. [:@]


Boy, are you going to feel like a douche if he's found to be innocent. [:D]




elab49 -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 12:30:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

Dare I say a female might have the better chance of getting the jury on her side in a case like this? especially with all the other stars getting in trouble?.


Yeah - because rape juries are so very well known for being on the side of the female victims. That's why we've got such an impressive conviction rate on rape convictions......




OPEN YOUR EYES -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 12:53:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

Dare I say a female might have the better chance of getting the jury on her side in a case like this? especially with all the other stars getting in trouble?.


[image]http://gifatron.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/lZOHCvW.gif[/image]






great_badir -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 1:22:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: emogeek
And was he not boasting a while ago about having slept with thousands of women?

EDIT: Which, of course, does not prove anything. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.


Not only does it not prove anything, but it also should not have any bearing on this case.

I'm not defending anyone who abuses anyone else (whether that abuse is sexual or otherwise), but to suggest that a celebrity is prone to that sort of behaviour just because they have slept with thousands of people over the years (a claim which can probably be made and substantiated by pretty much any major celeb in their relative field), is a bit naiive.




elab49 -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 1:30:28 PM)

He's made some pretty odd defences of LeVell lately, and someone else he has business links with who was also accused or convicted of this kind of thing. I guess you wonder if he knew the accusations were in the pipeline and he was making the case for his own innocence.




Chief -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 1:33:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Bill Roache:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22366981

Interesting, considering his crass and ignorant comments about sexual-abuse victims a couple of months back.


I've done a lot of work for him, so much in fact that he's one of my celebrity endorsements.
I have 7000 brochures with his picture in. I think I'm lighting a bonfire tonight. [:@]


I'm sorry but....... [sm=happy07.gif]

Edit: In fact, were you not laughing about the folk that had Jim'll Fix It medals and the drop in value? Sorry again. [sm=happy07.gif]




emogeek -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 1:55:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: emogeek
And was he not boasting a while ago about having slept with thousands of women?

EDIT: Which, of course, does not prove anything. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.


Not only does it not prove anything, but it also should not have any bearing on this case.

I'm not defending anyone who abuses anyone else (whether that abuse is sexual or otherwise), but to suggest that a celebrity is prone to that sort of behaviour just because they have slept with thousands of people over the years (a claim which can probably be made and substantiated by pretty much any major celeb in their relative field), is a bit naiive.


Sorry - my edit was a hasty and poorly worded way of making your first point above. I edited because the original post on it's own would basically have read as "he said this so he must be guilty", which was not the intention.





matty_b -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 2:47:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Bill Roache:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22366981

Interesting, considering his crass and ignorant comments about sexual-abuse victims a couple of months back.


I've done a lot of work for him, so much in fact that he's one of my celebrity endorsements.
I have 7000 brochures with his picture in.



quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

He's made some pretty odd defences of LeVell lately, and someone else he has business links with who was also accused or convicted of this kind of thing.



[sm=33.gif] [:D]




Phubbs -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 5:02:04 PM)

Just saying, lots of accusations flying, lots of stars in trouble, easy for for people to take sides...as we already know from most reactions, including most of you on here.




sanchia -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 6:19:45 PM)

End of the day, some may be guilty and some probably are. Some may not be guilty. Time will tell when the facts obtained are put before a jury.




elab49 -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 7:05:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

Just saying, lots of accusations flying, lots of stars in trouble, easy for for people to take sides...as we already know from most reactions, including most of you on here.


Really - who? Because assuming a side other than innocent until proven guilty is likely libellous, and any such post should be removed.




MonsterCat -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 7:31:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

Just saying, lots of accusations flying, lots of stars in trouble, easy for for people to take sides...as we already know from most reactions, including most of you on here.


Really - who? Because assuming a side other than innocent until proven guilty is likely libellous, and any such post should be removed.


You see, our friend Phubbs basically wades into a thread and then pretends people are saying one thing when in actual fact they're saying the opposite.

It's basically his trolling MO.




Hood_Man -> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville (1/5/2013 7:35:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Bill Roache:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22366981

Interesting, considering his crass and ignorant comments about sexual-abuse victims a couple of months back.


I've done a lot of work for him, so much in fact that he's one of my celebrity endorsements.
I have 7000 brochures with his picture in. I think I'm lighting a bonfire tonight. [:@]

With that and your Rolf Harris painting, I'd say you need to stick with Jaws merchandise for the time being [:D]




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