The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (Full Version)

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Deviation -> The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (17/9/2012 3:24:33 PM)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/17/us-china-japan-idUSBRE88F00H20120917

So, with all the bullshit going on involving a terrible anti-Islam film, I am finding this a bit more worrying. The dispute of the Senkaku (name in Japanese) or Daiyu (if you're Chinese) has escalated in anti-Japanese sentiment, leading to violent attacks on Japanese factories on the anniversary of the 1931 Japanese occupation of some parts of mainland China, which could lead to some rather grave economic worries beween two of Asia's, and the planet's, greatest economies.

Here's another link.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/17/business/china-japan-panasonic/index.html





Fluke Skywalker -> RE: The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (17/9/2012 3:34:29 PM)

[image]http://econintersect.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Japan-China-island-dispute-map.jpg[/image]

As usual it looks to be down to resources - why not have a joint Chinese/ Japanese deal to split whatever they find.




Deviation -> RE: The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (17/9/2012 3:40:01 PM)

It's always going to be about resources, which is why I also think why Japan is also disputing the Kuril Islands agaisnt the Russians.

And the Chinese, or at least a noticeable and very vocal portion of the Chinese citizens, still don't like the Japanese a lot.




AxlReznor -> RE: The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (17/9/2012 3:40:05 PM)

I haven't been really following this, so I could be completely wrong, but I've been under the impression that the disputed islands (as well as other islands that are under dispute with South Korea) were acquired during Japan's invasions during the 30's.
If this is the case, then I believe that they really should have been surrendered in 1945 along with what they'd taken of the mainland in that time. I have Japanese friends who would probably really be pissed off with me if I told them that I think China and Korea are right. [:D]

The anti-Japanese sentiment that's being drummed up over there is disgusting, though. I understand that the history of these nations has made things a bit tense between them, but the Chinese are just going completely overboard to show their support of their country. I hope that some resolution comes in the near future.




Deviation -> RE: The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (17/9/2012 3:54:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

I haven't been really following this, so I could be completely wrong, but I've been under the impression that the disputed islands (as well as other islands that are under dispute with South Korea) were acquired during Japan's invasions during the 30's.
If this is the case, then I believe that they really should have been surrendered in 1945 along with what they'd taken of the mainland in that time. I have Japanese friends who would probably really be pissed off with me if I told them that I think China and Korea are right. [:D]



Apparently the Japanese have had control of them since 1895 till them loosing brutally the Second World War. The Chinese claim they controlled them since the 14th Century. I don't know much about this either.

quote:

The anti-Japanese sentiment that's being drummed up over there is disgusting, though. I understand that the history of these nations has made things a bit tense between them, but the Chinese are just going completely overboard to show their support of their country. I hope that some resolution comes in the near future.


Not justifying the grudge some Chinese nationals hold agaisnt Japan, but the Japanese were brutal during the occupation (like most countries during WW2) and there has been some controversial choices (and as disgusting as the Chinese use of the atroicities to feed in anti-Japanese sentiment with their propaganda) on the Japanese side when it comes to the teaching of the atrocities in their own countries, especially when the right-wing Japanese ubernationalists get involved. Long story short, I don't think these tensions will go any day soon and they will take a hell of a long time to go.






AxlReznor -> RE: The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (17/9/2012 4:12:34 PM)

Looks like I got the wrong Sino-Japanese War, then. They acquired them during the First Sino-Japanese War, which was just after Japan gave into the bullying from the UK, US, France and Russia to become more Westernised and then joined those country's in bullying China. That was the era of the unfair treaty... ie: "Sign this treaty, and we won't kill you all", which is incidentally how the UK got the 100 year lease on Hong Kong. I don't agree with a lot of what China does nowadays, but I believe they've got a fair claim to the sovereignty of the islands considering they were taken by force. If people lived there, I'd think differently... I'd say, "if no one on the island can remember a time when they belonged to China then they shouldn't go back to China", but as they're uninhabited and it's entirely a dispute for resources, they should be given back to China.

Interestingly, that will also lead to another dispute, between the People's Republic Of China (the mainland), and the Republic Of China (Taiwan) who also claim sovereignty. That one is a lot less straight-forward...




elab49 -> RE: The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (18/9/2012 12:27:31 PM)

I wouldn't underestimate the nationalistic side because of the resource issue. Japan also has another major island dispute ongoing with South Korea, the Dokdo islands. There was a Korean national day recently with visits to the island and it even turned up in comments from Olympic athletes. It's quite bitter as well as SKor see it as Japan trying to keep a hold of the last part of SKor and the memory of the occupation is still pretty raw for the older generations (hence the ongoing controversy over 'comfort women').




Fluke Skywalker -> RE: The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (18/9/2012 12:37:29 PM)

The Japanese were really vicious in WW2 and I reckon that has something to do with it all as well. Chinese and Koreans apart I remember an interview with British soldiers who said they fought like crazy against the Japanese because they knew that being captured was not an option.




sharkboy -> RE: The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (18/9/2012 4:30:03 PM)

If the Chinese see their claim as more valid as they have had a longer presence on the islands, I wonder if this means that they'll reconsider their occupation of Tibet? [:)]




AxlReznor -> RE: The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (18/9/2012 4:48:05 PM)

Tibet was only independent between 1913 and 1951. Before then it was under the control of the Chinese Emperor. The invasion was merely getting it back. [;)] (Not seeing that I agree/disagree with them being there, but it's a misconception that it was always a seperate country until China invaded).




Deviation -> RE: The Daiyu/Senkaku Territorial Dispute (18/9/2012 6:17:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Tibet was only independent between 1913 and 1951. Before then it was under the control of the Chinese Emperor. The invasion was merely getting it back. [;)] (Not seeing that I agree/disagree with them being there, but it's a misconception that it was always a seperate country until China invaded).


What about the Tibetan Empire, the Phagmodrupa Dynasty and self-determination of a people who are not Han Chinese though? I can't see it as being similar to this. In some stages control was even minimal.




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