If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (Full Version)

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Goodfella -> If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (8/6/2012 10:38:36 PM)

....you haven't seen anything yet! Literally.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/blank-canvas-london-gallery-unveils-invisible-art-exhibition-7767057.html

I appreciate the story is close to a month old but the feature was on BBC News tonight, just couldn't find the link on their website, it's the same thing though.




Deviation -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (8/6/2012 10:51:22 PM)

quote:

Magic Ink (Gianni Motti, 1989)

These drawings were produced by the Italian artist using invisible ink, so were visible only for a brief instant before vanishing. He launched his career by staging a mock funeral for himself and parading his "body" through the streets of a Spanish town. In 2005 he sold a work which he claimed to have moulded using fat from Silvio Berlusconi sourced at a liposuction clinic for 9,862.


This is brilliant.




adambatman82 -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 10:36:00 AM)

I like the idea, although I do object to paying 8 to "see" it. Conceptual art has never been about the work itself, but the ideas behind a piece, so I like how meta and deconstructive this all is, plus its bonkers and ridiculous, which is never a bad thing when it comes to art. It's already provoked a tonne of debate too, which is ultimately the real "art" in all of this.




gunstar -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 10:41:01 AM)

Massively boring as these things go. Fairly unoriginal too. These conceptuals need to find some new concepts.




Dpp1978 -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:09:20 AM)

Does anyone think we will ever reach the point where everyone admits the Emperor has actually got no clothes on?




superdan -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:13:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

Does anyone think we will ever reach the point where everyone admits the Emperor has actually got no clothes on?


I think as long as people feel the urge to strive for meaning in something which really doesn't have any, then no [:D]




great_badir -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 1:59:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
Does anyone think we will ever reach the point where everyone admits the Emperor has actually got no clothes on?


I've been saying it for months in other threads, mainly about Hirst and Mark Rothko, but at least one person always jumps up and shouts that they are geniuses.

This new..."thing" (I can't even bring myself to call it an art exhibition) just rips the piss even more than the aforementioned "artists" put together.

People - 3, and you can come in and stare at the bare walls in my house for an hour or so. The scuffs and missing patches of paint represent...the peeling away of layers of emotion and man's struggle to keep its morality and conscience clear. Honest.




adambatman82 -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 2:22:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

Does anyone think we will ever reach the point where everyone admits the Emperor has actually got no clothes on?


I think as long as people feel the urge to strive for meaning in something which really doesn't have any, then no [:D]


But these pieces do quite literally have meaning tho. There's a concept behind each one. Whether or not each one is any good is another thing, but to claim they don't have meaning isn't true.




superdan -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 2:30:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

Does anyone think we will ever reach the point where everyone admits the Emperor has actually got no clothes on?


I think as long as people feel the urge to strive for meaning in something which really doesn't have any, then no [:D]


But these pieces do quite literally have meaning tho. There's a concept behind each one. Whether or not each one is any good is another thing, but to claim they don't have meaning isn't true.


The only meaning I can derive from them is as a demonstration of a miraculous modern alchemy - namely, the ability to spin gold from literally nothing. I don't mind modern art on the whole, but when they start charging people to look at a blank piece of paper because some bloke supposedly stared at it for 5 years, or an empty plinth because Warhole briefly stood on it once, then I just have to stand back and laugh at how brazen the piss-taking is. I might go down there and set up a magic bean stall outside, I reckon I'll make a killing so long as I look serious enough.




Quint -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 4:39:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

Does anyone think we will ever reach the point where everyone admits the Emperor has actually got no clothes on?


I think as long as people feel the urge to strive for meaning in something which really doesn't have any, then no [:D]


But these pieces do quite literally have meaning tho. There's a concept behind each one. Whether or not each one is any good is another thing, but to claim they don't have meaning isn't true.


For me the concept is the easy thing though (although these guys have somehow managed to make the actual work the easy thing). Normally if there is some degree of skill to go along with the concept I will be impressed. I used to paint whatever I liked and then create some bs concept around it to please my art teacher. As Badir proved upthread regarding his wall, you can dress anything up with some deep and meaningful spiel and people will apparently pay up. It's for things like this that I loath calling myself an artist, the industry can be an embarrassment.




Dpp1978 -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 8:01:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Quint

For me the concept is the easy thing though (although these guys have somehow managed to make the actual work the easy thing). Normally if there is some degree of skill to go along with the concept I will be impressed. I used to paint whatever I liked and then create some bs concept around it to please my art teacher. As Badir proved upthread regarding his wall, you can dress anything up with some deep and meaningful spiel and people will apparently pay up. It's for things like this that I loath calling myself an artist, the industry can be an embarrassment.


This probably sums up the whole issue. In certain circles the concept has become more important than the execution. That seems very backwards to me.

Not only have they made the work easy for themselves, they have shifted it so they can have the audience do most of the work for them. Present them with a room filled with mundane stuff with a clever label some artist thought up over lunch, and they'll spend hours making it into art in their own heads. And the more the mundane is intellectualised the greater the degree of snobbery that goes with it. The implication is that if you don't get it it is because you aren't sophisticated enough.

I suspect that is why it has spread: people who wish to appear sophisticated are terrified of appearing not so. That is all an artist has to do: convince one high status sophisticate of their unique voice and the rest will fall over themselves to keep up. Meanwhile the rest of us will be sitting in mild bemusement, watching them lavish praise on his Imperial Majesty's phantom ensemble, like the little boy in the story.

Not that any of this matters. If they can sell it, best of luck to them. And if those who spend their money on this stuff find value in it, good for them.

As to being embarrassed about calling yourself an artist, why not call yourself a painter or a designer or an illustrator? Do what you do and let others decide if it is art.




Deviation -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 8:03:35 PM)

WAIT MARK ROTHKO IS AWESOME YOU PHILISTINE TITS




adambatman82 -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 8:36:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

This probably sums up the whole issue. In certain circles the concept has become more important than the execution. That seems very backwards to me.



I'm not so sure thats anything particularly new tbh. It's always been the idea thats led (with conceptual art).




great_badir -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 10:14:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation
WAIT MARK ROTHKO IS AWESOME YOU PHILISTINE TITS


Oh yeah, I mean the MONTHS of thought and work that Rothko put into his paintings
[image]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee418/great_badir/Rothko.jpg[/image]

Makes Da Vinci look like Rolf Harris.

Yours for 8billion. A snip, I'm sure you'll agree.




adambatman82 -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 10:43:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation
WAIT MARK ROTHKO IS AWESOME YOU PHILISTINE TITS


Oh yeah, I mean the MONTHS of thought and work that Rothko put into his paintings
[image]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee418/great_badir/Rothko.jpg[/image]

Makes Da Vinci look like Rolf Harris.

Yours for 8billion. A snip, I'm sure you'll agree.


I think Rothko is one of the most fascinating artists thats ever lived. Have you ever actually read in to any of his work? Seen any in the flesh? The Seagram commission is one of the great "fuck you's" to the establishment, the guy was as in on any commentary of his work as any of his harshest critics.




great_badir -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 10:52:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
I think Rothko is one of the most fascinating artists thats ever lived. Have you ever actually read in to any of his work? Seen any in the flesh? The Seagram commission is one of the great "fuck you's" to the establishment, the guy was as in on any commentary of his work as any of his harshest critics.


The bit in bold - yes. The Tate Modern had a small-ish Rothko exhibition on back a few years ago (I think it was around the time that slide first went in). The one in particular that caught my eye (for all the wrong reasons) was "Blue" (no numbers or anything, it was just called Blue) and it was a single even shade of vivid blue. It was actually on "sale" (if memory serves one of the very few paintings up for offer there at the time) for tens of rather than the usual much-more-than-that for a Rothko because, being a single even shade, it was very unlike most of his other work, but that was also the reason the Rothko fans found it all the more fascinating (or so one of them told me, in all sincerity).

I'm sorry, but I really do think Rothko pulled the wool over everyone's eyes - what is, essentially, nothing more than a single colour Dulux swatch that would have taken ten minutes (and that's being generous) with, probably, a paint pad or roller, going for the same price of a decent new car...I'm sorry, it just sickens me, and everything else of his I saw that day I really could not believe the things I was reading and hearing people saying. It was like Brian Badonde, but 100% deadly serious.

Also, I'm not quite sure what can possibly be read into two to four colour blocks of different sizes...




adambatman82 -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:01:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

Also, I'm not quite sure what can possibly be read into two to four colour blocks of different sizes...


Sorry I meant "read in to" Rothko's life. He's a fascinating guy. As with most modern art the work comes second for me, behind the concept, but I do genuinely like being around the work too. The Seagram has been replicated in the Tate (it was there in that exhibition you went to too), and I genuinely find the whole thing to be a really powerful experience. Here's a link to the story behind the Seagram's, and Rothko's suicide if you've got five minutes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2002/dec/07/artsfeatures




great_badir -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:14:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

Also, I'm not quite sure what can possibly be read into two to four colour blocks of different sizes...


Sorry I meant "read in to" Rothko's life. He's a fascinating guy. As with most modern art the work comes second for me, behind the concept, but I do genuinely like being around the work too. The Seagram has been replicated in the Tate (it was there in that exhibition you went to too), and I genuinely find the whole thing to be a really powerful experience. Here's a link to the story behind the Seagram's, and Rothko's suicide if you've got five minutes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2002/dec/07/artsfeatures


Ah right, sorry. Yeah, actually I know "some" of Rothko's life as I did art at A level and the syllabus side of it was 20th century art, so I read quite a lot of stuff at the time.

I probably did see the Seagrams if they were there but, honestly, I was so annoyed at what I was seeing, my mind couldn't differentiate from one piece of bad modern "art" from the other (something which was repeated in April when I stayed with a mate in Glasgow and visited the GOMA - thank fuck that was free to get into, is all I can say!).

I appreciate that you respect Rothko and like the work because of him and his life, but to me that is a lot like someone saying they love (genuinely, not ironically, love) Ed Wood's films because he was a fascinating man who had a fascinating life, which he was and he did. But his films are still fucking awful.




Skiba -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:22:12 PM)

You seriously need to get over your Rothko thing Badir! You're basically sounding like one of those people who say "anyone can do that". Okay...go on then.




BigKovacs -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:23:44 PM)

An artists death may make their work more valuable but it doesn't make it any better, which is what that article insinuates.

It's that kind of drivel that keeps this self perpetuating art blimp of bullshit afloat, critics will look each other in the eye and agree that what they're looking at actually means something, despite the artists themselves admitting that they have no idea as to what they've created and 'conceptual' art is one of the biggest cons and biggest cop outs to happen to art in the last 30 years. It's a gutless idea that requires no talent, skill or conviction, just a loose idea that as long as you can keep a straight face when describing the 'concept', it's art.




great_badir -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:33:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skiba
Okay...go on then.


Rothko masterpiece, or badir original?...

[image]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee418/great_badir/untitled-1.jpg[/image]

I call it Grey on Black Part 1A (Grey border on black partitions with hints of white). It's a commentary on racism and it symbolises the total pointlessness of racism, but at the same time a stark reminder that black power/interracial mixing/white supremacy (delete as per your thoughts) can have a major effect on peace, culture and evolution.

...I actually think I put more effort into that then Rothko ever did in one of his...




Deviation -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:37:42 PM)

I don't like the way colours match each other and the edges seem to rough, unlike Rothko's rather smooth transition from type of black to a darker shade.

Which is I why I wouldn't mind Rothko on my wall.

Oh my God i don't believe i just typed that




gunstar -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:39:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skiba
Okay...go on then.


Rothko masterpiece, or badir original?...

[image]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee418/great_badir/untitled-1.jpg[/image]

I call it Grey on Black Part 1A (Grey border on black partitions with hints of white). It's a commentary on racism and it symbolises the total pointlessness of racism, but at the same time a stark reminder that black power/interracial mixing/white supremacy (delete as per your thoughts) can have a major effect on peace, culture and evolution.

...I actually think I put more effort into that then Rothko ever did in one of his...


This really speaks to me. The stippling effect highlights the isolation felt by the individual when faced with the labels of 'race'. Excellent work. Here's twenty grand.




great_badir -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:42:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation
I don't like the way colours match each other and the edges seem to rough, unlike Rothko's rather smooth transition from type of black to a darker shade.


Ahhh, but Rothko had to use luddite tools like PAINT and BRUSHES and PAPER!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, the funt!

I have the wonder of late 20th century basic PaintShop at my digital fingertips! This is PROGRESS, my friend. PROGRESS!!!

gunstar - I balk (baulk?) at your offer. This one goes for two hundred grand!




Skiba -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:45:10 PM)

[:D]

Not bad...and I'm sure if Rothko had MS Paint, he'd have used that too. You should try and get it exhibited. Let me know how you get on

I think the phallus-type shape in the bottom corner would suggest you're symbalising your fertility




great_badir -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:47:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skiba
I think the phallus-type shape in the bottom corner would suggest you're symbalising your fertility


It's actually a penis envy thing and a commentary on how I get gun-shy at urinals.

...oh, I mean it actually represents the conical head dress of the dreaded Ku Klux Klan, with the ball of white on the right representing their flame of hate, and the zig-zags being their attempted white washing of black America.




gunstar -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:52:15 PM)

I look forward to the 'Cock n Balls 4 u' print series.





Skiba -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:55:27 PM)

The thing is, you've just done that once...for fun (or not). Artists don't just make one thing once in a blue moon and call it art...an artist would make art everyday because that's what they feel they need to do. You doing that, doesn't make it art.




gunstar -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (9/6/2012 11:58:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skiba

The thing is, you've just done that once...for fun (or not). Artists don't just make one thing once in a blue moon and call it art...an artist would make art everyday because that's what they feel they need to do. You doing that, doesn't make it art.


I think it does, and I'm the only person that matters, for I have the money.




Rinc -> RE: If you think Damien Hirst is mad.... (10/6/2012 12:29:08 AM)

It's probably not too long before an 'artist' starts a thread on an online forum and then exhibits a computer screen featuring the thread live. It would be a comment on communication, globalisation, the power of language, the futility of language, the evolution of language. All that shite.

In fact it's probably already been done.




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