so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (beware SPOILERS) (Full Version)

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jackcarter -> so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (beware SPOILERS) (5/6/2012 4:15:35 PM)

while it initially looked like AVP had been retconned by the Weyland site establishing Peter Weyland as the founder of WeylandCorpIndustries (not Charles Bishop Weyland), and that his father was a software engineer (so couldnt be CBW), in the film there dosnt seem to be anything to suggest that PW couldnt have taken over the corp from CBW, and could be the nephew not son

also regarding the xenos theres plenty to suggest they have been around a long time - depiction of a xeno on the wall in the giant head room, and some of the 2000 year old dead engineers have burst chests like the 1979 SpaceJockey....so Predators may have encounted them or stolen the technology from the engineers and created them for hunting(maybe the slaughtered engineers in the hologram were under attack from clocked Predators who had come for the xeno making goo....j/k - but it would sort of tie in with AvP flashbacks)

therefore AvP can still be canon[:)]




jcthefirst -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (5/6/2012 4:46:38 PM)

Yes.

Yes, it did. [:D]

That's not a bad thing.




Spaldron -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (5/6/2012 5:05:43 PM)

Its a bit of a stretch tbh.




Dirk Miggler -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (5/6/2012 7:49:34 PM)

AVP cannon ? Fck that !




OPEN YOUR EYES -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (5/6/2012 7:51:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jackcarter

while it initially looked like AVP had been retconned by the Weyland site establishing Peter Weyland as the founder of WeylandCorpIndustries not Charles Bishop Weyland, and that his father is a software engineer (so couldnt be CBW), in the film there dosnt seem to be anything to suggest that PW couldnt have taken over the corp from CBW in 2004 or could be the nephew not son,...

also although it appears xenos don’t exist until Prometheu's time (2091), Predators may have been able to make them their own way somehow (& there is a depiction of a xeno on the wall in the giant head room and some of the dead engineers have burst chests - suggesting xenos)...therefore i think AvP can still be canon[:)]


[image]http://holidaygifgiver.com/media/images/gifs/366/366_original.gif[/image]




DONOVAN KURTWOOD -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (5/6/2012 8:02:43 PM)

Prometheus more or less just ripped off AvP, particularly with the ending. But overall the amount of similarities between the two movies are frankly staggering.




jackcarter -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (5/6/2012 8:29:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

Prometheus more or less just ripped off AvP, particularly with the ending. But overall the amount of similarities between the two movies are frankly staggering.


yes indeed as stated in the review thread, it did seem to be something of a remake of AvP...(albeit a vastly superior **** star worthy one directed by R Scott)...just set on another planet instead of the arctic.

(BEWARE EXTREME HEAVY SPOILERS)

-Foreshadowing opening set many years before events of film (AvP unrated cut only)
-Scientists discover signs designed to lure humans to a hidden place where perverse alien-ish things will happen to them
-Archaeological dig
-Group of scientists/mercs for mission to undisclosed destination funded by Weyland are assembled in the cargo hold of the ship by stern Company suit, and then briefed by Weyland about what they hope to find/how it could be a historic discovery for mankind, before archaeologists comment on the power point hieroglyphs seen in different ancient cultures around the world.
-Dying Weyland founder, who has designs on immortality, accompanies the crew despite being in very bad health.
-The female protagonist talks about her fathers death.
-Giant pyramid like temple structure discovered.
-Holographic projection of the structure is seen.
-One of the mercs is challenged by the female protagonist regarding taking weapons to the site.
-Journey to the site in armoured tractor type vehicles
-Enter Giger-esque interior of structure searching with torches and find ancient language carved into walls and someone asks 'can you read this?'
-The depiction of a xenomorph on the wall.
-One of the team activates the structure - thus creating sequence of catastrophic events.
-Team gets accidentally separated, the two that don’t get along (science nerd and wannabe hard man) get cut off from main group, are attacked by face creatures and die horribly. (plus sim to the two who are cut off from the others in the sacrificial chamber are attacked by face creatures)
-Discover 7ft+ ancient aliens who wear environmental face masks and create/breed alien life forms, were once worshiped as Gods by humans
-Alien in cryogenic sleep is awakened (queen/engineer)
-Ancient aliens are hostile to humans - Weyland is killed by one
-Female protagonist tries to save the survivors, and humanity itself, from the alien threat.
-Female protagonist is only human survivor to escape destruction - which prevents spread of the alien destruction on earth (Pyramid blowing up/Prometheus crashing into the Engineer's ship)
-Main alien also survives destruction (queen/engineer) and attacks her before another alien intervenes saving the female protagonist (predator/giant face hugger)
-Female protagonist escapes environment but ultimate fate is uncertain.
-Final chest burst scene & new look xeno emerges from an ancient alien. The final shot is of the chestburster screaming into the camera.





Cool Breeze -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (5/6/2012 8:55:57 PM)

Whether it actually retconned AVP or not , I think AVP makes a lot more sense as a prequel to Alien than Prometheus.




Dirk Miggler -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (5/6/2012 9:01:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Whether it actually retconned AVP or not , I think AVP makes a lot more sense as a prequel to Alien than Prometheus.


[image]http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss111/christyj12/gifs/fbm9so.gif[/image]




RobotDevil -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (5/6/2012 9:07:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jackcarter

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

Prometheus more or less just ripped off AvP, particularly with the ending. But overall the amount of similarities between the two movies are frankly staggering.


yes indeed as stated in the review thread, it did seem to be something of a remake of AvP...(albeit a vastly superior **** star worthy one directed by R Scott)...just set on another planet instead of the arctic.

(BEWARE EXTREME HEAVY SPOILERS)

-Scientists discover signs designed to lure humans to a hidden place (where alien-ish things will happen to them)
-Group of archaeologists/experts/mercs assembled by the Weyland company and given talk by Weyland founder.
-Similar 'glyphs’ seen in different cultures around the world scene.
-One of the mercs is challenged by a scientist regarding taking weapons
-Two of the team are at odds with one another but later sort of work out their differences when become seperated from group.
-Dying Weyland founder, who has designs on immortality, accompanies the crew despite being in very bad health.
-Giant pyramid temple structure discovered.
-Enter Giger-esque interior searching with torches and find ancient language carved into walls and someone asks 'can you read this?'
-The depiction of an xeno on the wall.
-One of the team activates the structure - thus creating sequence of catastrophic events.
-Team gets accidentally separated and some team members are attacked by face creatures
-Discover ancient aliens were once worshiped as Gods by humans
-Ancient aliens are hostile to humans (Weyland is killed)
-Female protagonist tries to save the survivors (and humanity itself) from the alien threat.
-Female protagonist is only human survivor to escape destruction of the temple.
-Main alien survives destruction and attacks her before another extra-terrestrial attacks the alien thus saving the female protagonist.
-Female protagonists fate is uncertain.
-Final chest burst scene & new look xeno emerges from an ancient alien.





It is a little similar if you put it that way. I could hardly believe the final scene.




DONOVAN KURTWOOD -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (5/6/2012 10:22:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jackcarter

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

Prometheus more or less just ripped off AvP, particularly with the ending. But overall the amount of similarities between the two movies are frankly staggering.


yes indeed as stated in the review thread, it did seem to be something of a remake of AvP...(albeit a vastly superior **** star worthy one directed by R Scott)...just set on another planet instead of the arctic.

(BEWARE EXTREME HEAVY SPOILERS)

-Scientists discover signs designed to lure humans to a hidden place (where alien-ish things will happen to them)
-Group of archaeologists/experts/mercs assembled by the Weyland company and given talk by Weyland founder.
-Similar 'glyphs’ seen in different cultures around the world scene.
-One of the mercs is challenged by a scientist regarding taking weapons
-Two of the team are at odds with one another but later sort of work out their differences when become seperated from group.
-Dying Weyland founder, who has designs on immortality, accompanies the crew despite being in very bad health.
-Giant pyramid temple structure discovered.
-Enter Giger-esque interior searching with torches and find ancient language carved into walls and someone asks 'can you read this?'
-The depiction of an xeno on the wall.
-One of the team activates the structure - thus creating sequence of catastrophic events.
-Team gets accidentally separated and some team members are attacked by face creatures
-Discover ancient aliens were once worshiped as Gods by humans
-Ancient aliens are hostile to humans (Weyland is killed)
-Female protagonist tries to save the survivors (and humanity itself) from the alien threat.
-Female protagonist is only human survivor to escape destruction of the temple.
-Main alien survives destruction and attacks her before another extra-terrestrial attacks the alien thus saving the female protagonist.
-Female protagonists fate is uncertain.
-Final chest burst scene & new look xeno emerges from an ancient alien.





Cheers JC, i knew id read a much better description of the similarities somwhere and it was in fact your post in the review thread!




xzynomorpher -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (6/6/2012 9:48:19 PM)

quote:

(BEWARE EXTREME HEAVY SPOILERS)

-Scientists discover signs designed to lure humans to a hidden place (where alien-ish things will happen to them)
-Group of archaeologists/experts/mercs assembled by the Weyland company and given talk by Weyland founder.
-Similar 'glyphs’ seen in different cultures around the world scene.
-One of the mercs is challenged by a scientist regarding taking weapons
-Two of the team are at odds with one another but later sort of work out their differences when become seperated from group.
-Dying Weyland founder, who has designs on immortality, accompanies the crew despite being in very bad health.
-Giant pyramid temple structure discovered.
-Enter Giger-esque interior searching with torches and find ancient language carved into walls and someone asks 'can you read this?'
-The depiction of an xeno on the wall.
-One of the team activates the structure - thus creating sequence of catastrophic events.
-Team gets accidentally separated and some team members are attacked by face creatures
-Discover ancient aliens were once worshiped as Gods by humans
-Ancient aliens are hostile to humans (Weyland is killed)
-Female protagonist tries to save the survivors (and humanity itself) from the alien threat.
-Female protagonist is only human survivor to escape destruction of the temple.
-Main alien survives destruction and attacks her before another extra-terrestrial attacks the alien thus saving the female protagonist.
-Female protagonists fate is uncertain.
-Final chest burst scene & new look xeno emerges from an ancient alien.


...Wow




great_badir -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 12:53:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Whether it actually retconned AVP or not , I think AVP makes a lot more sense as a prequel to Alien than Prometheus.


Have to say, as things are left at the moment at least, that I agree with this.

And it pains me, REALLY pains me, to say that cos I can't stand AVP...




adambatman82 -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 5:56:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Whether it actually retconned AVP or not , I think AVP makes a lot more sense as a prequel to Alien than Prometheus.


Have to say, as things are left at the moment at least, that I agree with this.

And it pains me, REALLY pains me, to say that cos I can't stand AVP...


While I think it's arguable as to which one makes more sense I do think that Prometheus was the more interesting film. AVP was a bland, shitty action movie-by-the-numbers, at least Scott was trying to do something a little bit different with his film.




DONOVAN KURTWOOD -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 7:25:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Whether it actually retconned AVP or not , I think AVP makes a lot more sense as a prequel to Alien than Prometheus.


Have to say, as things are left at the moment at least, that I agree with this.

And it pains me, REALLY pains me, to say that cos I can't stand AVP...


While I think it's arguable as to which one makes more sense I do think that Prometheus was the more interesting film. AVP was a bland, shitty action movie-by-the-numbers, at least Scott was trying to do something a little bit different with his film.



true. Although i do enjoy AvP for what it is ("Shit!" everyone cries [:D])




Rgirvan44 -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 7:33:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jackcarter

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

Prometheus more or less just ripped off AvP, particularly with the ending. But overall the amount of similarities between the two movies are frankly staggering.


yes indeed as stated in the review thread, it did seem to be something of a remake of AvP...(albeit a vastly superior **** star worthy one directed by R Scott)...just set on another planet instead of the arctic.

(BEWARE EXTREME HEAVY SPOILERS)

-Scientists discover signs designed to lure humans to a hidden place (where alien-ish things will happen to them)
-Group of archaeologists/experts/mercs assembled by the Weyland company and given talk by Weyland founder.
-Similar 'glyphs’ seen in different cultures around the world scene.
-One of the mercs is challenged by a scientist regarding taking weapons
-Two of the team are at odds with one another but later sort of work out their differences when become seperated from group.
-Dying Weyland founder, who has designs on immortality, accompanies the crew despite being in very bad health.
-Giant pyramid temple structure discovered.
-Enter Giger-esque interior searching with torches and find ancient language carved into walls and someone asks 'can you read this?'
-The depiction of an xeno on the wall.
-One of the team activates the structure - thus creating sequence of catastrophic events.
-Team gets accidentally separated and some team members are attacked by face creatures
-Discover ancient aliens were once worshiped as Gods by humans
-Ancient aliens are hostile to humans (Weyland is killed)
-Female protagonist tries to save the survivors (and humanity itself) from the alien threat.
-Female protagonist is only human survivor to escape destruction of the temple.
-Main alien survives destruction and attacks her before another extra-terrestrial attacks the alien thus saving the female protagonist.
-Female protagonists fate is uncertain.
-Final chest burst scene & new look xeno emerges from an ancient alien.






Add in

SPOILERS

A scientist and a geologist who don't get along, getting cut off from main group and being killed.
The hero talks about her fathers death
A briefing in the cargo hold of the ship
The hero asking why people are bringing weapons with them to the site




Rgirvan44 -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 7:35:29 PM)

The movie strictly speaking does not retcon AVP...if you don't want it to.

I am perusming that the ship in Alien had been lying there, crashed well before the events of Prometheus meaning that it is entirely possible.

But why would you want it to be canon?




jackcarter -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 10:15:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

The movie strictly speaking does not retcon AVP...if you don't want it to.

I am perusming that the ship in Alien had been lying there, crashed well before the events of Prometheus meaning that it is entirely possible.

But why would you want it to be canon?


cos bishops in it!

(damn i just realised the rumoured Lance Henrikson Prometheus cameo didnt happen!)




jackcarter -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 10:19:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: jackcarter

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

Prometheus more or less just ripped off AvP, particularly with the ending. But overall the amount of similarities between the two movies are frankly staggering.


yes indeed as stated in the review thread, it did seem to be something of a remake of AvP...(albeit a vastly superior **** star worthy one directed by R Scott)...just set on another planet instead of the arctic.

(BEWARE EXTREME HEAVY SPOILERS)

-Scientists discover signs designed to lure humans to a hidden place (where alien-ish things will happen to them)
-Group of archaeologists/experts/mercs assembled by the Weyland company and given talk by Weyland founder.
-Similar 'glyphs’ seen in different cultures around the world scene.
-One of the mercs is challenged by a scientist regarding taking weapons
-Two of the team are at odds with one another but later sort of work out their differences when become seperated from group.
-Dying Weyland founder, who has designs on immortality, accompanies the crew despite being in very bad health.
-Giant pyramid temple structure discovered.
-Enter Giger-esque interior searching with torches and find ancient language carved into walls and someone asks 'can you read this?'
-The depiction of an xeno on the wall.
-One of the team activates the structure - thus creating sequence of catastrophic events.
-Team gets accidentally separated and some team members are attacked by face creatures
-Discover ancient aliens were once worshiped as Gods by humans
-Ancient aliens are hostile to humans (Weyland is killed)
-Female protagonist tries to save the survivors (and humanity itself) from the alien threat.
-Female protagonist is only human survivor to escape destruction of the temple.
-Main alien survives destruction and attacks her before another extra-terrestrial attacks the alien thus saving the female protagonist.
-Female protagonists fate is uncertain.
-Final chest burst scene & new look xeno emerges from an ancient alien.






Add in

SPOILERS

A scientist and a geologist who don't get along, getting cut off from main group and being killed.
The hero talks about her fathers death
A briefing in the cargo hold of the ship
The hero asking why people are bringing weapons with them to the site



nice catches

added them to OP above




Cool Breeze -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 10:21:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

The movie strictly speaking does not retcon AVP...if you don't want it to.

I am perusming that the ship in Alien had been lying there, crashed well before the events of Prometheus meaning that it is entirely possible.

But why would you want it to be canon?


Because its actually good fun, and makes a lot more sense than Prometheus.




jackcarter -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 10:36:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

The movie strictly speaking does not retcon AVP...if you don't want it to.

I am perusming that the ship in Alien had been lying there, crashed well before the events of Prometheus meaning that it is entirely possible.

But why would you want it to be canon?


Because its actually good fun, and makes a lot more sense than Prometheus.



cmon be honest now - its just cos its got PREDATORs in it right?[:D]




Rgirvan44 -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 10:41:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

The movie strictly speaking does not retcon AVP...if you don't want it to.

I am perusming that the ship in Alien had been lying there, crashed well before the events of Prometheus meaning that it is entirely possible.

But why would you want it to be canon?


Because its actually good fun, and makes a lot more sense than Prometheus.



Is this the point we have got to?





DONOVAN KURTWOOD -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 10:55:00 PM)

AvP is alright! Not amazing but certainly not terrible. AvP 2 sucks unfortunately.




MonsterCat -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 11:13:28 PM)

I would ignore AvP, too.

It's a horrible film. The sequel isn't much better.




adambatman82 -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (7/6/2012 11:43:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

I would ignore AvP, too.


Yep, totes with thee. Rewatched AVP going in to Prometheus. Thought the first act was fine, the rest was just a shitty Alien rehash* with added Predator (aka the single worst film franchise figure of all time). So what if there are similarities in the concepts, its the execution that counts, and are we honestly saying that Scott ripped AVP off? I doubt the guy has even seen it!




Spaldron -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (8/6/2012 12:32:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jackcarter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

The movie strictly speaking does not retcon AVP...if you don't want it to.

I am perusming that the ship in Alien had been lying there, crashed well before the events of Prometheus meaning that it is entirely possible.

But why would you want it to be canon?


cos bishops in it!

(damn i just realised the rumoured Lance Henrikson Prometheus cameo didnt happen!)


Fuck Bishop, Lance Henrikson is a twat anyway.

AVP 1 and 2 are both shockingly bad films in every sense and quite rightly have been officially excised from the Alien canon. Prometheus pisses all over AVP in the same way that LOTR pisses all over Star Wars (yeah I went there....oh the irony [:D]).




jackcarter -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (8/6/2012 1:05:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

I would ignore AvP, too.


Yep, totes with thee. Rewatched AVP going in to Prometheus. Thought the first act was fine, the rest was just a shitty Alien rehash* with added Predator (aka the single worst film franchise figure of all time). So what if there are similarities in the concepts, its the execution that counts, and are we honestly saying that Scott ripped AVP off? I doubt the guy has even seen it!



i read that AvP 'ripped off' elements of the original story for Alien (pyramid on alien planet) and thats why the original Alien writers (Dan O Bannon and the other guy) had to be credited with the story (not just characters). which in turn is why Prometheus shares so much with AvP as its using concepts etc from original Alien script (pyramid, bringing on board a severed alien head)





Cool Breeze -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (8/6/2012 4:08:51 AM)

Lance Henricksen was much more convincing as an elderly Weyland than Guy Pearce [;)]




adambatman82 -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (8/6/2012 11:22:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Lance Henricksen was much more convincing as an elderly Weyland than Guy Pearce [;)]


I knew that "Weyland's Make-up" was going to become your new "Magneto's Accent"!




doubtlesswonder -> RE: so did Prometheus retcon AvP or not? (8/6/2012 8:16:40 PM)

I can watch AvP if I'm in the mood for some dumb action and lots of fun deaths at the hands of the aliens or predators. But as anything more it really annoys me. Plus, it has that really STUPID tagline. "Whoever wins, we lose." Right. Apart from that woman that walks away at the end.

I really enjoyed Prometheus. I thought it was pretty smart and a very interesting story. I've seen a lot of people complaining about plotholes but I don't really see any- I just think that a lot of people like to have every last thing explained to them. The downside, I think, is that it is only REALLY enjoyable to those of us who absolutely love the original Alien. It isn't really a film for the casual viewers. Two of my friends went to see it and said they thought it was only ok, but they aren't really huge Alien fans, so a lot of the little references- and the whole space jockey thing- would have been lost on them.




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