Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (Full Version)

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leroythemasochist -> Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 12:49:26 PM)

I've just seen a report about Steven Soderberg's new movie, Knockout.  It looks like quite a lot of fun on the surface.  It's got the awesome and not unattractive Gina Carrano playing a spy - so far, so schlocky.  But then you hear that BOTH Ewan McGregor and Michael Fassbender are to play nasty ne'er do well Brit spies who set her up etc etc...
Her saviour seems to be that stallwart of crap roles, Dennis Quaid.
What the hell is going on these days?
The only time you see a lead role in a big budget movie taken by a Brit and they're NOT a villain is Bond - or Austin Powers!
It's lazy, tedious and most of xenophobic![:@]
The only major director I can think of who doesn't do this is Spielberg but then he is the kind of guy who doesn't have to bow to pressure from studios I guess.
I LOVE Hollywood movies and I love America as a country - I've visited many times and lioved and worked there and I've never once been suspected of being a war mongering villain or sneaky bad guy who'll say one thing and then do another.
I though Soderberg had more sense, I guess not.
 
Another point is that it is increasingly easy to play 'spot the baddie' in modern thrillers.  It's very easy.  99% of the time, they'll be speaking with a funny British accent.  All that work writers do in trying to throw us off the scent with twisty-turny plots is undone in a second when we hear a person's voice...
 
Is there anyone else out there who agrees with this, or am I the only one?




clownfoot -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 1:00:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leroythemasochist

Is there anyone else out there who agrees with this, or am I the only one?



Just you. Mostly because:

1. Playing the bad guy is much more fun.
2. Brit actors do it rather, rather well often to a point where they make the film. 

It's not like McGregor and Fassbander were held at gunpoint and told they were going to take the role. They probably looked at the script and thought "that looks like fun".




krudler -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 1:07:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leroythemasochist

I've just seen a report about Steven Soderberg's new movie, Knockout.  It looks like quite a lot of fun on the surface.  It's got the awesome and not unattractive Gina Carrano playing a spy - so far, so schlocky.  But then you hear that BOTH Ewan McGregor and Michael Fassbender are to play nasty ne'er do well Brit spies who set her up etc etc...
Her saviour seems to be that stallwart of crap roles, Dennis Quaid.
What the hell is going on these days?
The only time you see a lead role in a big budget movie taken by a Brit and they're NOT a villain is Bond - or Austin Powers!
It's lazy, tedious and most of xenophobic![:@]
The only major director I can think of who doesn't do this is Spielberg but then he is the kind of guy who doesn't have to bow to pressure from studios I guess.
I LOVE Hollywood movies and I love America as a country - I've visited many times and lioved and worked there and I've never once been suspected of being a war mongering villain or sneaky bad guy who'll say one thing and then do another.
I though Soderberg had more sense, I guess not.
 
Another point is that it is increasingly easy to play 'spot the baddie' in modern thrillers.  It's very easy.  99% of the time, they'll be speaking with a funny British accent.  All that work writers do in trying to throw us off the scent with twisty-turny plots is undone in a second when we hear a person's voice...
 
Is there anyone else out there who agrees with this, or am I the only one?



Guess you missed those space movies were McGregor was a hero then, and Fassbender was a good Brit soldier in Inglorious Basterds,British actors play villains and hero roles, whats the issue? or are you trying to get a job writing for the Daily Mail? as for the Bond thing, Christopher Lee, Johnathan Pryce, Robert Carlisle, have all been British villains

fail




britesparc -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 1:30:46 PM)

And Spielberg had British actors playing villains in 1942, three out of the four Indiana Jones movies, arguably Jurassic Park (Hammond redeemed himself I guess), and the new Tintin.

For one thing, posh British accents are really the best in the world for delivering evil monolgues.  Second, the Devil has all the best tunes.  And third, it's the movies - you could probably find examples for anything you wanted if you looked hard enough [:D]

Personally it doesn't bother me.  If someone offered me the chance to be Bond or Blofeld, or to be Batman or the Joker, I'd pick the bad guy any day of the week.




elab49 -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 1:41:57 PM)

Spielberg did also make clear the then current position of the British on slavery in Amistad, though.

While I think Clowny's right to an extent - it often seems the most interesting role - I do think there certainly seemed to be a period when every other bad guy was a Brit and it was argued away as Americans don't like being seen as or playing bad guys. That seemed a bit over-simplified but there weren't many other explanations on offer.





rich -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 1:47:39 PM)

Because its a subliminal message to the US audience who still think of us as a bunch of Limey colonialists, and themselves as heroic do-gooders. That and a Brit villian is easier to take seriously.




britesparc -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 2:00:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Spielberg did also make clear the then current position of the British on slavery in Amistad, though.



And you could argue in the POW camp in Empire of the Sun, the Brits are the good guys and the Yanks are morally dubious [;)]

I think most good directors just cast the best actors...




Timon -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 2:13:17 PM)

Because they're so good at it!

[image]http://splunge.net.au/events/alan-rickman-film-festival/die_hard2.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www2.dickinson.edu/dickinsonian/pics/%21D%20-%20troyMOVIE.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.premiere.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/bad-guys-sean/609654-1-eng-US/Bad-Guys-Sean.jpg[/image]








grucl -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 2:35:03 PM)

For he same reason German actors play villains so often in Bond movies (Curd Jürgens, Gert Fröbe, Gottfried John, Götz Otto, Klaus Maria Brandauer). They are believable as bad guys.

I guess Alan Rickman tops all this by being a British actor playing a German villain in an American movie. [:D]




somekindof_battery -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 2:55:37 PM)

For Hollywood British are the bad guys i'd say stemming back to the War of Independence. I can't see how that isn't some sort of catalyst ingrained on the American psyche - Trying to take away their freedom and such.

Also the fact that we share a common language but there's all these differences in culture meaning neither truly has a full understanding of the other so it makes the British seem a little strange, alien etc.

Plus if it works once or twice then why not again? No one can deny Alan Rickman and Gary Oldman have played some great villains so why not some more British actors? Mark Strong is really making a career for himself playing villains.




fuzzy -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 3:00:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: grucl

For he same reason German actors play villains so often in Bond movies (Curd Jürgens, Gert Fröbe, Gottfried John, Götz Otto, Klaus Maria Brandauer). They are believable as bad guys.

I guess Alan Rickman tops all this by being a British actor playing a German villain in an American movie. [:D]


What about this guy then?...

[image]http://www.tier8.net/ralph-fiennes/pictures/ralph-fiennes-main2.jpg[/image]




tommyjarvis -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (13/1/2010 6:13:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: grucl

For he same reason German actors play villains so often in Bond movies (Curd Jürgens, Gert Fröbe, Gottfried John, Götz Otto, Klaus Maria Brandauer). They are believable as bad guys.

I guess Alan Rickman tops all this by being a British actor playing a German villain in an American movie. [:D]


So did Jeremy Irons. Gary Oldman also played a Russian villain in Air Force One.




grucl -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (14/1/2010 7:24:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tommyjarvis
ary Oldman also played a Russian villain in Air Force One.


Directed by a German.[:D]




wombathog -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (14/1/2010 12:11:45 PM)

Sorry to mention the film but in Dreamcatcher Damien Lewis played an American but when 'possessed' or whatever it was he spoke with his normal posh english voice, which I found much more entertaining.

As mentioned above, the bad guy role is usually the most fun so it's no suprise why actors go for them.





Alvin Stardust -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (14/1/2010 1:55:11 PM)

I put some of it down to studio execs who insist that America has to be the country that saves the world from nasty foreigners. That of course, plays to the US audiences that provide most of the box office returns.

But quality of role and size of pay packet plays a large part, I guess, and the likes of Caine and Connery in the past, and the likes of Daniel Craig and Clive Owen these days, play leading men / heroes most of the time.




MOTH -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (14/1/2010 4:55:31 PM)

I'm sorry to be the one to state the obvious, but most of the world views the British as complete bastards.
Kind Regards
MOTH




Overmind -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (15/1/2010 4:51:11 AM)

And in Star Wars the galactic Empire were pure British :)




leroythemasochist -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (15/1/2010 9:46:14 AM)

Oh my God!
Just a thought.
Sorry everyone...

OK, OK, so the best roles are the bad guys... yadda yadda yadda...

BUT if that is the case why don't the Americans take them then??
Whatever, my main annoyance with this is that it's soooo bloody obvious at the beginning of certain films who the villain's gonna be.
Just bores me.

And the points made about Speilberg... Julian Glover played and American in Last Crusade, and Denholm Elliot was a good guy, so was Jim Broadbent, and Sean Connery, and Anthony Hopkins (yes, I know he's an American these days but he used to be Welsh) played Sam Adams, and Francois Truffaut in CETK, and Christian Bale, and Nigel Havers in EotS and.... that's about it I suppose.
The real bad guys were the Nazis in Indy - bad guys all of time I think we'll all agree.

And Star Wars...?  OK, you got me.  Alec Guiness messes up my theory good and proper cuz after him they had to have an non-American accent for his young self and then the rest of the Jedis had to sound English too - don't know why though.  Answers on a postcard (God, how old school is THAT!)
But wouldn't you have paid money to hear Sam Jackson with a Home Counties voice!

I guess, in the end, it comes down to about 60-40 in favour of the American being the good guy and the Brit (or Euro types) being the scum sucking nasty bastard.

So really we were all right, 'from a certain point of view' (to kind of quote that crazy old hermit who lives out beyond the Dune Sea)





Chief -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (15/1/2010 11:40:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leroythemasochist

The only time you see a lead role in a big budget movie taken by a Brit and they're NOT a villain is Bond - or Austin Powers!


The same Austin Powers that's played by Mike Myers the Canadian?




Alvin Stardust -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (15/1/2010 12:31:28 PM)

The same Mike Myers whose parents are from Liverpool? Meaning he is British... from a certain point of view.

Speaking of Star Wars, most of the Empire might be British... save the American voice of Darth Vader (whose prequel, non armoured form was also American).




Overmind -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (17/1/2010 6:15:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvin Stardust

The same Mike Myers whose parents are from Liverpool? Meaning he is British... from a certain point of view.

Speaking of Star Wars, most of the Empire might be British... save the American voice of Darth Vader (whose prequel, non armoured form was also American).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITMnUxxvMyo

[sm=fighting03.gif]




hatebox -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (17/1/2010 2:57:46 PM)

I'm starting to wonder if the whole thing's become such a cliche that maybe it's dying down a little.

And if it isn't well... there are worse things to be stereotyped as than a dangerous, sexy genius.




BlueBalls -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (19/1/2010 1:18:52 PM)

Because all Brits are fundamentally evil at the very core of their being. Hollywood is just exposing it so that the rest of the world knows and can slowly back out of the room when a British person appears.

They really are clever in that there Hollywood........ 





monkeyfish -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (19/1/2010 5:29:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: leroythemasochist

I've just seen a report about Steven Soderberg's new movie, Knockout.  It looks like quite a lot of fun on the surface.  It's got the awesome and not unattractive Gina Carrano playing a spy - so far, so schlocky.  But then you hear that BOTH Ewan McGregor and Michael Fassbender are to play nasty ne'er do well Brit spies who set her up etc etc...
Her saviour seems to be that stallwart of crap roles, Dennis Quaid.
What the hell is going on these days?
The only time you see a lead role in a big budget movie taken by a Brit and they're NOT a villain is Bond - or Austin Powers!
It's lazy, tedious and most of xenophobic![:@]
The only major director I can think of who doesn't do this is Spielberg but then he is the kind of guy who doesn't have to bow to pressure from studios I guess.
I LOVE Hollywood movies and I love America as a country - I've visited many times and lioved and worked there and I've never once been suspected of being a war mongering villain or sneaky bad guy who'll say one thing and then do another.
I though Soderberg had more sense, I guess not.
 
Another point is that it is increasingly easy to play 'spot the baddie' in modern thrillers.  It's very easy.  99% of the time, they'll be speaking with a funny British accent.  All that work writers do in trying to throw us off the scent with twisty-turny plots is undone in a second when we hear a person's voice...
 
Is there anyone else out there who agrees with this, or am I the only one?



Isn't Michael Fassbender German-Irish, therefore not British at all?




spark1 -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (20/1/2010 1:09:01 PM)

brit actors don't need to b loved so just go that extra to make villains really work.




no1psh -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (22/1/2010 10:29:32 AM)

It must be the accent I presume.




benskelly -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (24/1/2010 8:15:47 AM)

I'm Italian-American.  Quit yer whinin'.  [;)] 




adambatman82 -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (20/5/2010 2:42:46 PM)

Barry Norman has written a terrible article for the Daily Mail today, whining about how unfair it is that the British "always" play bad guys in films. Which is just plain wrong, and further proves, if proof were needed that Barry Norman is about as relevant as a biscuit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1279809/BARRY-NORMAN-Why-does-Hollywood-ALWAYS-cast-English-actors-villains.html




Edward Nygma -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (20/5/2010 3:11:27 PM)

Because they sound so tweedle-dee-delightfully eeeeeevil!

I'm kidding.




tftrman -> RE: Why do most British actors have to be villains??? (20/5/2010 3:21:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

Barry Norman has written a terrible article for the Daily Mail today, whining about how unfair it is that the British "always" play bad guys in films. Which is just plain wrong, and further proves, if proof were needed that Barry Norman is about as relevant as a biscuit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1279809/BARRY-NORMAN-Why-does-Hollywood-ALWAYS-cast-English-actors-villains.html



Depends what type of biscuit - chocolate digestives are very relevant.




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