RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles

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rawlinson -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 2:29:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army quote: ORIGINAL: JoeyPottr I should have never even said my woodchipper comment because apparently some of you people classify child molesters as human, I don't sorry. What are they then? Martians? Giraffes? Amoeba? "Paedophiles have more genes in common with crabs than they do with you and me. Now that is scientific fact, there's no real evidence for it, but it is scientific fact". [;)]

Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 2:46:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Woger Isn't any punishment forcible? Yes. This is why having something that modifies the body a punishment is inhumane.

Woger -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 2:56:50 PM)
Yes, but to go by the title of this thread you'd think someone was getting their lad put on a chopping block, which is not the case.

Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 3:11:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Woger Yes, but to go by the title of this thread you'd think someone was getting their lad put on a chopping block, which is not the case. It's forcible drugging. Inhumane.

superdan -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 3:27:41 PM)
What about forcing people to take anti-psychosis drugs?

Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 4:03:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: superdan What about forcing people to take anti-psychosis drugs? Isn't psychosis something that prevents people from thinking or acting rationally, or makes them temporarily insane? If so, then that's fine. They need to be brought down back to a level where they can communicate and act like regular human beings (or whatever is possible). I'm not exactly sure what psychosis is, but maybe tying them down temporarily will alleviate it? Disregard this if I'm way off. Paedophiles don't NEED drugs. They're perfectly capable of talking, reasoning, and communicating like anyone else. They simply ALSO have these psychotic sexual urges that force them to commit horrible acts on children. Drugs aren't necessary.

JessFranco -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 4:19:19 PM)
Coerced medication for psychological illnesses is pretty controversial in itself and might be up for review from a human rights perspective soon. I think it's generally done in response to the idea of an active physical threat either to the patient or someone else.

paul_ie86 -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 4:36:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rawlinson quote: ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army quote: ORIGINAL: JoeyPottr I should have never even said my woodchipper comment because apparently some of you people classify child molesters as human, I don't sorry. What are they then? Martians? Giraffes? Amoeba? "Paedophiles have more genes in common with crabs than they do with you and me. Now that is scientific fact, there's no real evidence for it, but it is scientific fact". [;)] [:D] Brass Eye FTW

Felix -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 4:38:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle quote: ORIGINAL: superdan What about forcing people to take anti-psychosis drugs? Isn't psychosis something that prevents people from thinking or acting rationally, or makes them temporarily insane? If so, then that's fine. They need to be brought down back to a level where they can communicate and act like regular human beings (or whatever is possible). I'm not exactly sure what psychosis is, but maybe tying them down temporarily will alleviate it? Disregard this if I'm way off. Paedophiles don't NEED drugs. They're perfectly capable of talking, reasoning, and communicating like anyone else. They simply ALSO have these psychotic sexual urges that force them to commit horrible acts on children. Drugs aren't necessary. That makes no sense. You could argue that paedophiles'have the same mental imbalance that prevents them from thinking or acting rationally and need to be brought to a level where they can act and communicate like a regular human being.

Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 5:17:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Felix quote: ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle quote: ORIGINAL: superdan What about forcing people to take anti-psychosis drugs? Isn't psychosis something that prevents people from thinking or acting rationally, or makes them temporarily insane? If so, then that's fine. They need to be brought down back to a level where they can communicate and act like regular human beings (or whatever is possible). I'm not exactly sure what psychosis is, but maybe tying them down temporarily will alleviate it? Disregard this if I'm way off. Paedophiles don't NEED drugs. They're perfectly capable of talking, reasoning, and communicating like anyone else. They simply ALSO have these psychotic sexual urges that force them to commit horrible acts on children. Drugs aren't necessary. That makes no sense. You could argue that paedophiles'have the same mental imbalance that prevents them from thinking or acting rationally and need to be brought to a level where they can act and communicate like a regular human being. Paedophilia doesn't necessarily stop a person from communicating, or doing anything else perfectly normally. The only difference is the sexual attraction to children. Psychosis would appear to affect a person in nearly all respects. I've since rethought my view, and will have chemical castration carried out only with the consent of the patient, and anti-psychosis medication administered only when absolutely necessary, as a last resort.

Felix -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 8:43:28 PM)
Thats jolly decent of you. When can we expect these changes to be rolled out?

JessFranco -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 9:40:18 PM)
quote: I've since rethought my view, and will have chemical castration carried out only with the consent of the patient, and anti-psychosis medication administered only when absolutely necessary, as a last resort. That's pretty much the situation in the UK at the moment, as far as i know.

Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (7/10/2009 11:54:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Felix Thats jolly decent of you. When can we expect these changes to be rolled out? Expect my first video game to hit stores late 2012... [;)]

JoeyPottr -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 5:10:48 AM)
My opinion about child molesters is an opinion, take it or leave it I don't really care what you think. Just go tell these people whose children have been molested by repeat offenders that you classify these sick people as human and then see what happens next. If you have ever a child who was molested it's a completely different story; you wouldn't be so apt to give these people basic human rights. Chew on that for a while ilovebeerme.

Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 8:23:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JoeyPottr My opinion about child molesters is an opinion, take it or leave it I don't really care what you think. Just go tell these people whose children have been molested by repeat offenders that you classify these sick people as human and then see what happens next. If you have ever a child who was molested it's a completely different story; you wouldn't be so apt to give these people basic human rights. Chew on that for a while ilovebeerme. Paedophiles have forty-six chromosomes... You can't ask that of people. No one really knows how they'd react in a situation like that unless it's happened to them before. In any case, those who have suffered emotional upheaval or bereavement tend to lose control of their emotions and their anger will actually resemble hate towards the person they deem responsible. Our emotions tend to fool us. Just out of curiosity, what would you call someone who commits bestiality? Are they human?

ilovebeerme -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 8:43:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JoeyPottr My opinion about child molesters is an opinion, take it or leave it I don't really care what you think. Just go tell these people whose children have been molested by repeat offenders that you classify these sick people as human and then see what happens next. If you have ever a child who was molested it's a completely different story; you wouldn't be so apt to give these people basic human rights. Chew on that for a while ilovebeerme. Wow! What a truly stunning point. I've never been confronted with that argument before[:D] That's why the justice system takes the decision out of my hands. Revenge is not justice and has no place in judgments made against criminals. Revenge is how thugs and criminals solve their problems. A Jedi craves not these things. And don't presume to know what my reaction would be in any given situation. I note you didn't actually attempt to answer any of the questions posed.

Sinatra -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 8:56:26 AM)
quote: I think its a good idea. I dont see how removing/reducing a seriously damaging urge is a bad thing. [:)] I agree, if it's actually proven to work...

CORLEONE -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 9:09:29 AM)
Word. If these drugs are proven to significantly lower the urge to molest children then I don't see the argument.

JessFranco -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 9:41:41 AM)
It's wrong-headed for a number of important reasons. The drugs can be effective but, as with any theraputic programme, are effective when the patient is co-operating, taking them willingly and genuinely committed to making them work. Releasing people who remain a danger to children with medication they pointedly don't want to be taking isn't going to make many people safer. Using it as part of a broader programme to assist people who are trying to control their own urges might. Any blanket ruling that all sex offenders get drugged is inevitably going to capture people who don't need pharmaceutical help in controlling themselves - the reformed and the innocent. The assumption that nobody convicted can ever be either is simply wrong. You aren't just denying them the right to abuse children they wouldn't have abused anyway, you're denying them any chance at a normal relationship as well - probably meaning a greater chance of violence or aberrant behaviour in the long term. The drugs also have unpleasant side effects and the health impact of taking them over a long period of time is sketchy at best. If psychiatrists on parole boards think that X, Y or Z remain an active danger to children, they shouldn't be released into society with a dodgy treatment that'll be ridiculously hard to monitor. If they don't remain an active danger to children, drugging them makes no sense.

Sinatra -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 10:44:22 AM)
Yeah, second thoughts your right, keep the fuckers locked up! [:)]

Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 11:22:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CORLEONE Word. If these drugs are proven to significantly lower the urge to molest children then I don't see the argument. If a man was big enough to prevent a train from crashing, thus saving the five people inside it, would you push him in front of it?

Pigeon Army -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 11:27:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle quote: ORIGINAL: CORLEONE Word. If these drugs are proven to significantly lower the urge to molest children then I don't see the argument. If a man was big enough to prevent a train from crashing, thus saving the five people inside it, would you push him in front of it? You can't ask that of people. No one really knows how they'd react in a situation like that unless it's happened to them before. [:D]

CORLEONE -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 11:33:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle quote: ORIGINAL: CORLEONE Word. If these drugs are proven to significantly lower the urge to molest children then I don't see the argument. If a man was big enough to prevent a train from crashing, thus saving the five people inside it, would you push him in front of it? No man is big enough to stop a train from crashing. The Incredible Hulk on the other hand....

Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 11:36:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army quote: ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle quote: ORIGINAL: CORLEONE Word. If these drugs are proven to significantly lower the urge to molest children then I don't see the argument. If a man was big enough to prevent a train from crashing, thus saving the five people inside it, would you push him in front of it? You can't ask that of people. No one really knows how they'd react in a situation like that unless it's happened to them before. [:D] Almost. [;)] Joey's question was about emotional reaction, mine was about course of action.

Pigeon Army -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 11:41:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle quote: ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army quote: ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle quote: ORIGINAL: CORLEONE Word. If these drugs are proven to significantly lower the urge to molest children then I don't see the argument. If a man was big enough to prevent a train from crashing, thus saving the five people inside it, would you push him in front of it? You can't ask that of people. No one really knows how they'd react in a situation like that unless it's happened to them before. [:D] Almost. [;)] Joey's question was about emotional reaction, mine was about course of action. Still a hypothetical. Still something that relies on an emotional response - you can't tell me kill one to save five isn't emotionally loaded.

Mr Dead -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 11:55:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army quote: ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle quote: ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army quote: ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle quote: ORIGINAL: CORLEONE Word. If these drugs are proven to significantly lower the urge to molest children then I don't see the argument. If a man was big enough to prevent a train from crashing, thus saving the five people inside it, would you push him in front of it? You can't ask that of people. No one really knows how they'd react in a situation like that unless it's happened to them before. [:D] Almost. [;)] Joey's question was about emotional reaction, mine was about course of action. Still a hypothetical. Still something that relies on an emotional response - you can't tell me kill one to save five isn't emotionally loaded. The intersting one with this thought experiment is where do you draw the line. For example if you could kill one person to save millions I think most people would go sure hand me the gun. However what about killing one person to save a thousand? a hundread? ten? five? or even 2?

rawlinson -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 11:55:19 AM)
It doesn't really make sense. If a man is big enough to stop a train, surely he'd be so heavy that you'd need to be of a similar size in order to push him in front of the train. So wouldn't it take more than one of you to push the big man in front of the train meaning it was a group decision rather than an individual one? Wouldn't the time machine/Hitler question be more fitting?

Mr Dead -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 11:58:33 AM)
I think its more the principal rather than the exact physics of the situation. To be more accurate you could say that a train is approaching at speed however another train is stopped just round the corner and out of site of the approaching train. If you do nothing then the trains will collide, if you push some one onto the tracks then the approaching train will slam on the brakes, hitting the unfortunate you puished onto the tracks but stopping in time to avoid hitting the second train.

rawlinson -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 12:03:07 PM)
I know, I just trying to bring some realism into the conversation about Desperate Dan sized men who can be thrown in front of a train and cause it to stop without risking derailing the train and killing all the passengers anyway. That's why I brought up the time machine and Hitler. Realism is everything. [:D] I think the key point is that despite Joey's rantings, no-one can ever know how they would feel in any of these situations unless they've actually been in them.

Woger -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (8/10/2009 2:05:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle quote: ORIGINAL: CORLEONE Word. If these drugs are proven to significantly lower the urge to molest children then I don't see the argument. If a man was big enough to prevent a train from crashing, thus saving the five people inside it, would you push him in front of it? What if the pusher was a paedophile and the train was full of children?

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