RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (Full Version)

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Olaf -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (30/9/2009 11:01:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoeyPottr

We're fine, and we're NOT Mr. Beck. Keyser. Do you honestly think it's possible to rehabilitate these people? No it's not. All child killers have had child molestation charges on their records in the past. For example Richard Davis who murdered Polly Klaas back in the 1990's was a repeat offender for child molestation. Medicine doesn't even work on these guys. Just look up Megan's Law on google and you will see what I am talking about. This law is implemented in all of the United States, in one form or another. It's about a 7 year old girl Megan Kanka a New Jersey girl who was raped and murdered by a known and convicted child molester who had moved across the street from them without their knowledge. Now sex offenders are REQUIRED to register as such. There's a lot more cases like these, just look them up. Do I think it's right for child molesters to be put away for good, yes I do, because they are scum like I said before they belong in a wood chipper, sausage maker, whatever to keep them away from our children. These people are evil. [:@]


OMG please tell us stupid Europeans more about your amazing laws and generally act like a condescending dolt. Fanks.




JoeyPottr -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (1/10/2009 4:34:01 AM)

I'm not acting condescending, it was to give you guys references to back up what I was talking about. It was not a slam against Europeans either. If you took at that way, that's your problem.




Keyser Sozzled -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (1/10/2009 7:39:50 AM)

quote:

We're fine, and we're NOT Mr. Beck. Keyser. Do you honestly think it's possible to rehabilitate these people? No it's not. All child killers have had child molestation charges on their records in the past. For example Richard Davis who murdered Polly Klaas back in the 1990's was a repeat offender for child molestation. Medicine doesn't even work on these guys. Just look up Megan's Law on google and you will see what I am talking about. This law is implemented in all of the United States, in one form or another. It's about a 7 year old girl Megan Kanka a New Jersey girl who was raped and murdered by a known and convicted child molester who had moved across the street from them without their knowledge. Now sex offenders are REQUIRED to register as such. There's a lot more cases like these, just look them up. Do I think it's right for child molesters to be put away for good, yes I do, because they are scum like I said before they belong in a wood chipper, sausage maker, whatever to keep them away from our children. These people are evil.


I feel like I am conducting an exorcism now.......Can I speak to Joey, just Joey..........

Joey, I know about Megans Law (gather round children Joey is to tell us a tale, a magical tale of a morally compromised piece of legislationl). What the implementation Megans Law in the United States of America or something like Sarah's Law in the UK has anything to do with the moral question of whether Chemical castration is a valid form of preventative measure in these cases is beyond me. Maybe you are saying that all sex offender should be put on a register, something I think is acceptable and then when they move to an area the residents are informed (something that can be morally dubious depending on why they were put on the register in the first place) and maybe then the residents get to feed the person to the wood chipper themselves in some form of Wicker-Man style wood-chipper-feeding-frenzy ("All hail the god of chipped wood"!).

The simple response to your kill 'em all approach is that although it makes you feel safe at night and probably reinforces a more fundamentalist moral code that you either do or aspire to live by is simple. It doesn't work. Not to drag this thread too far off topic the very fact that US states which have the death penalty still have people who are willing to commit crimes shows it is not a deterrant.

I wonder if you have actually read through the thread?....Do you think many people are on here actually siding with pedophilles?......The question that has been raised and which is being debated does not lend itself to your unique brand of right wing rhetoric. If you want to post things about Megans Law and woodchipper try the Fox News boards.

You conduct is getting tiring, you see pedophille and you immeadiately decide that all posts are going to be "Feed them to the wood chipper, all child killers have molested before and will kill our children in our beds" GAHHHHH !!!.........Look, try and calm down a bit. A lot of people on here are playing devils advocate to a certain extent (probably even Squid) leave the excessive emotion outsideof teh debate and tell us what you think about it from a practical standpoint.




Olaf -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (1/10/2009 12:51:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoeyPottr

I'm not acting condescending, it was to give you guys references to back up what I was talking about. It was not a slam against Europeans either. If you took at that way, that's your problem.


It also has very little to do with the topic at hand, which is chemical castration for pedophiles. If you want to talk reactionary nonsense like "throw 'em into a woodchipper, the bastards" then find a different thread for it.




JoeyPottr -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (2/10/2009 6:21:28 AM)

Fine Keyser, I don't think that chemical castration is a valid form of deterrent, these people will still seek out children because it's like someone here mentioned before, a child molester asked for his hands to be removed so he wouldn't be tempted to hurt children anymore. The intent is still there whether they are castrated or not I think. Practical enough for you? The wood chipper comment too blunt for here? If that makes me sound right wing, I don't know why, lots of liberals would say the some thing that I know. I don't talk around things like some people on this forum I say what I think. I was talking about pedophiles in general and not specifically chemical castration because this has to do with pedophiles. My conduct is getting tiring, apparently not to you Keyser, because you keep trying to reason, negotiate or get me to come over to your side of things.

I don't see a gray area concerning pedophiles or methods to keep them away from children if that makes me sound paranoid I really don't care. People still commit these crimes in the US because they don't think they will get caught, or they want to get caught and get their face on the cover of time (crimes in general I am speaking of not just pedophilia) The US is too lenient on these people anyway.




Keyser Sozzled -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (2/10/2009 7:59:33 AM)

quote:

Fine Keyser, I don't think that chemical castration is a valid form of deterrent, these people will still seek out children because it's like someone here mentioned before, a child molester asked for his hands to be removed so he wouldn't be tempted to hurt children anymore. The intent is still there whether they are castrated or not I think. Practical enough for you? The wood chipper comment too blunt for here? If that makes me sound right wing, I don't know why, lots of liberals would say the some thing that I know. I don't talk around things like some people on this forum I say what I think. I was talking about pedophiles in general and not specifically chemical castration because this has to do with pedophiles. My conduct is getting tiring, apparently not to you Keyser, because you keep trying to reason, negotiate or get me to come over to your side of things.

I don't see a gray area concerning pedophiles or methods to keep them away from children if that makes me sound paranoid I really don't care. People still commit these crimes in the US because they don't think they will get caught, or they want to get caught and get their face on the cover of time (crimes in general I am speaking of not just pedophilia) The US is too lenient on these people anyway


What fucking planet are you on?..........Get you to come over to my side?...Joey if you are on the same side as me I know I am on the wrong side, simple as that.

Do you think that by having a kill em all attitude you are somehow moraaly superior than other posters. You dont talk around things like other posters?....The problem is Joey you don't think around things like other posters

And you "Say what you mean", well isn't that just great for you. It's a shame of course that you don't have anything worthwhile to say. I think you should go back and read the opening post for a start. The OP felt that the idea of Chemical castration is wrong on the basis of being a breach of human rights....you might also want to read the replies on the first page.

This debate is about whether chemical castration is a valid form of rehabilitation after somone has been punished for the sick act. You have stated that you do not feel that it is viable because presumably it s too lenient. But we are actually talking after someone has served or even concurrently with a prison sentence.

This doesn't mean that someone can come on and spout shite about feeding pedophilles to wood chippers. If you want to do that go to another thread. I would love to know what would propse to do if someone was wrongly convicted of this crime, remind me again what the appeals prrocess is after you have been fed to a fucking wood chipper?

In fact open a thread called "Feeding Pedophilles to Wood Chippers: Wrong?".......see how long before it gets locked.

Also you do know there is a whole world outside of the US right?....




Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (2/10/2009 8:34:31 PM)

If a crime is heinous, then sentencing tends to be harsher, but in terms of duration, not intensity. In some countries where democratic principles are unheard of there's mutilation and torture in the day to day agenda. Not in the West though, theoretically; paedophiles get that treatment in jail by the inmates, usually.

In principle, the State should avoid imposing on an offender any sort of sentence that puts them in harm's way, because putting people in harm's way is a crime, and the State cannot commit crimes. What the State does is imprison them, impose fines and impose other forms of disciplinary measures against them.

Imprisonment is theoretically aimed at teaching a lesson and protecting society from the reccurence of crime. The lesson taught concerns the perpetrator and the would-be perpetrators. Imprisonment is preferable to physical harm, because western democratic societies have agreed that freedom is THE utmost personal right. Taking it away is considered to be punishment enough. Taking away a life is irreversible , much like several other forms of corporal punishment.

In prison, one is not only denied their freedom, but also their lesser liberties, plus they may be subject to denial of their dignity. This demoralizes a person and scars their psyche, which causes further harm.

Naturally, all manner of criminal behaviour occurs in prison, because it's a community that's a miniature of society and living with people always involves dangerous encounters, etc.

Such treatment, including forced chemical castration, seems to be in contradiction to Western humanistic principles in general, and although the crime is heinous, the nature of the crime should not cloud the judgement of a dispassionate justice system.




Epiphany Demon -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (2/10/2009 9:55:00 PM)

Before I start what is to be a rather brief post because I'm not as eloquent in the ways of laws as you lot seem to be, nor am I that fussy about what punishment paedophiles get as long as it is in fact a punishment, I'd like to highlight what spamandham (emphasis on the spam) said here, which quite possibly topped Squidward.

quote:

ORIGINAL: spamandham

quote:

chemical castrastion is too good for these fucks, castration with a rusty spoon and being fed their own balls would be more appropriate


quote:

People who harm children should be taken out and hanged from the nearest tree


Hmm, sorry i appear to have gotten lost. I was trying to find my way to the empire forums, but somehow ended up at the dailymail site replete with all its ignorant hatred and bile spewing!



LOL. I know, isn't it mad that people that wish for people that, to put it bluntly, fuck or sodomise children to be punished? Tongue in cheek I think; no one's going to castrate with a rusty spoon when we all have easy access to cheese graters nowadays.

Jesus, can't you show opinion without some stupid oaf on the internet bringing up the Daily Mail? Spammy, how would you deal with paedophiles? Leave them to their own devices? Let them float through life, groping and raping on the way? If it was your hypothetical child, how would you deal with someone who had sex with them?

It's either castration - that which makes them lose all libido and desire to do anything to anyone -, or actual LIFE imprisonment. But not a prison with PS2s and microwaves. Just a cold, dank corner. It's as bad as murder; perhaps even worse. The implications later on in life can be devastating.




Olaf -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (2/10/2009 10:52:07 PM)

Epi, you know I love you babes but I'm gonna have to call you out there. If the quotes Spamandham quoted were "pedophiles should be castrated chemically" then I'd understand what you mean, but the quotes were rather extreme views and Spam has a right to be offended I think. It's no different to Joey's "woodchipper" comment on the previous page - we have to be reasonable when dealing with such a delicate subject, to show that we're better people than the pedophiles.

(namedropping the Mail is rather tiresome though)




FritzlFan -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (2/10/2009 10:54:58 PM)

So spamandham is a "stupid oaf" for not wanting paedophiles to be punished in as gruesome a fashion as possible?




sanchia -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (2/10/2009 10:55:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Epi, you know I love you babes but I'm gonna have to call you out there. If the quotes Spamandham quoted were "pedophiles should be castrated chemically" then I'd understand what you mean, but the quotes were rather extreme views and Spam has a right to be offended I think. It's no different to Joey's "woodchipper" comment on the previous page - we have to be reasonable when dealing with such a delicate subject, to show that we're better people than the pedophiles.

(namedropping the Mail is rather tiresome though)



That's what a hippy Guardian reader would say [;)]




Olaf -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (2/10/2009 10:58:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia


quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Epi, you know I love you babes but I'm gonna have to call you out there. If the quotes Spamandham quoted were "pedophiles should be castrated chemically" then I'd understand what you mean, but the quotes were rather extreme views and Spam has a right to be offended I think. It's no different to Joey's "woodchipper" comment on the previous page - we have to be reasonable when dealing with such a delicate subject, to show that we're better people than the pedophiles.

(namedropping the Mail is rather tiresome though)



That's what a hippy Guardian reader would say [;)]


Who told you?!? [:D]




JoeyPottr -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 5:20:30 AM)

Keyser, you spend entirely too much time bitching at me. I did read the other posts. They shouldn't let pedophiles out of prison if they are in prison, (leave them in there because they are the bottom of the barrel in prison) people who molest children in my opinion shouldn't have any damn rights. Do I think I am morally superior? No where do you get that stupid idea? No chemical castration is not a valid form of rehabilitation as I said before because unless you rewire their brains, they still are attracted to children! There is NO rehabilitating these people. 'What fucking planet am I on?' Grow up.




ilovebeerme -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 8:24:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Epiphany Demon
It's as bad as murder; perhaps even worse. The implications later on in life can be devastating.


So is sticking somebody in a dank hole in the ground for life. Just as bad.




Pigeon Army -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 8:41:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

If a crime is heinous, then sentencing tends to be harsher, but in terms of duration, not intensity. In some countries where democratic principles are unheard of there's mutilation and torture in the day to day agenda. Not in the West though, theoretically; paedophiles get that treatment in jail by the inmates, usually.

In principle, the State should avoid imposing on an offender any sort of sentence that puts them in harm's way, because putting people in harm's way is a crime, and the State cannot commit crimes. What the State does is imprison them, impose fines and impose other forms of disciplinary measures against them.

Imprisonment is theoretically aimed at teaching a lesson and protecting society from the reccurence of crime. The lesson taught concerns the perpetrator and the would-be perpetrators. Imprisonment is preferable to physical harm, because western democratic societies have agreed that freedom is THE utmost personal right. Taking it away is considered to be punishment enough. Taking away a life is irreversible , much like several other forms of corporal punishment.


My God. For the most part, you actually sound lucid, Squid, even if the statement in bold is very confusing.

quote:

In prison, one is not only denied their freedom, but also their lesser liberties, plus they may be subject to denial of their dignity. This demoralizes a person and scars their psyche, which causes further harm.

Naturally, all manner of criminal behaviour occurs in prison, because it's a community that's a miniature of society and living with people always involves dangerous encounters, etc.


They may be subject to denial of their dignity. This is not the state's intent - the state simply intends to deny them certain freedoms law-abiding citizens are accorded, because the criminals have acted against a social contract, so to speak, that dictates that we must obey the law in order for the state to protect our freedoms. If they're subject to the denial of their dignity, that happens. They're not denied recourse and recompense for these denials of dignity - murder and rape in prison can still be prosecuted, and compensation for ill-treatment in prisons by guards is available if pursued. This denial of dignity is not within the state's intent, and while it may cause further harm, it's not something that you can use to argue against a criminal justice system existing. Sure, prisons should be run more efficiently and effectively, but sometimes they aren't. It's not right, but it's not something that means we should do away with prisons altogether. Furthermore, if people experience prison for the freedom-restricting punishment it is, it is assumed that people will be less likely to pursue a course of action that would land them in there again once released.

I will note, though, that prison's not a microcosm of society. The majority of society abides by the laws laid down by the state so that their freedoms and rights may be protected. A prison community is made up of the elements of society that don't abide by these laws - hardly indicative of society as a whole.

quote:

Such treatment, including forced chemical castration, seems to be in contradiction to Western humanistic principles in general, and although the crime is heinous, the nature of the crime should not cloud the judgement of a dispassionate justice system.


What do you mean, "the nature of a crime"? A crime's very nature is what a justice system should be concerned with. The nature boils down to why it was committed, how, against whom, etc. etc. The criminal justice holds rape to be a more serious offence than sexual assault, because the nature of rape is more severe due to the extent of the damage done to the victim and the actus reus of the offence and mens rea of the offender. The criminal justice system holds aggravated assault to be more severe than assault, because aggravated assault is committed in the pursuit of another crime, thus altering the nature of the offence. And rape of a child is deemed a more serious offence than rape of an adult, as while both are heinous actions, the very nature of the offence is that a child is more vulnerable than an adult and thus easier to take advantage of. I don't see how jail is in contradiction to Western humanistic standards when the acts committed by these people are also in contradiction to those standards. Basically, they're given a punishment proportionate to their offence, and there's nothing non-humanistic about that. Sure, chemical castration raises some human rights issues, as I've continuously pointed out, but throwing them in a mental hospital for an indefinite period of time, as you've condoned previously, raises just as many human rights issues.

And to think you were off to such a good start.




Epiphany Demon -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 8:43:33 AM)

This is in reply to everyone, can't be arsed to quote all:

Does anyone really think whoever said they're gonna rusty spoon someone's knob off may have been exaggerating for comedic effect? Or shoving them in a woodchipper?

Number one, has anyone actually seen a woodchipper before apart from in Fargo? I haven't. You can't just get them in B&Q can you?
And number two, despite what I believe was tongue in cheek and an extremist view for the sake of showing your opinion (this means they don't really believe rustiness is a viable option), pulling out the same old bollocks of the Daily Mail is what annoyed me the most.

ilovebeerme... Granted, you're slightly correct. But I'd rather you left paedophiles to live in a dank hole than just arrested them and essentially gave them a free home, free food, free entertainment, and a jail term that's bound to be cut in half.




ilovebeerme -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 9:08:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Epiphany Demon

ilovebeerme... Granted, you're slightly correct. But I'd rather you left paedophiles to live in a dank hole than just arrested them and essentially gave them a free home, free food, free entertainment, and a jail term that's bound to be cut in half.


That's not true though is it. You are painting a picture of prison of this happy go lucky holiday camp, when it's actually a fucking horrible place full of misery and violence. Especially for child sex offenders. A prison is not a home and the jail term is not by any means always cut in half.

A prison term may not satisfy your need for vengeance, but then it's not supposed to is it.




Pigeon Army -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 9:10:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Epiphany Demon

This is in reply to everyone, can't be arsed to quote all:

Does anyone really think whoever said they're gonna rusty spoon someone's knob off may have been exaggerating for comedic effect? Or shoving them in a woodchipper?


Hardly a subject to be comical about. Yeah, child rape, barrel of laughs.

Also, given that JoeyPottr was the one espousing the woodchipper thing, I would be approaching that one with a bit of caution.

quote:

ilovebeerme... Granted, you're slightly correct. But I'd rather you left paedophiles to live in a dank hole than just arrested them and essentially gave them a free home, free food, free entertainment, and a jail term that's bound to be cut in half.


That is a very distorted way to look at prison. They are given a free home and free food, and yes, I believe some prisons even have TVs and libraries - but they're also cut off from the outside world, have a number of the freedoms we take for granted cut off, are surrounded by thoroughly unlikable criminals, and because they're pedophiles, they're the lowest of the low in prison. I'm not condoning making prison all sunshines and lollipops for those poor, poor pedos - far from it - but it's far from the London Hilton that you make it sound like.




Epiphany Demon -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 9:33:31 AM)

quote:


Hardly a subject to be comical about. Yeah, child rape, barrel of laughs.

Also, given that JoeyPottr was the one espousing the woodchipper thing, I would be approaching that one with a bit of caution.


I just honestly don't believe people are going "yeah, let's chop their bollocks off with rusty spoons". I think if it came to it, they'd of course say chemical castration was the better option.

quote:


That is a very distorted way to look at prison. They are given a free home and free food, and yes, I believe some prisons even have TVs and libraries - but they're also cut off from the outside world, have a number of the freedoms we take for granted cut off, are surrounded by thoroughly unlikable criminals, and because they're pedophiles, they're the lowest of the low in prison. I'm not condoning making prison all sunshines and lollipops for those poor, poor pedos - far from it - but it's far from the London Hilton that you make it sound like.



I've visited a friend's uncle in prison, and he says it's the best thing he could have hoped for. Arrested for possession of a firearm or whatever, he sees his wife every weekend or midweek or however they do it, he has a Dreamcast, he's allowed to make dinner requests, a number of mates in prison - and no violence. I'm not saying every single prisons like this, and of course the punishment should fit the crime... but (and especially the UK, where we just let everyone walk all over us) we're getting extorted to a point; where people can commit unspeakable atrocities but we feel the need to be the perfect gentleman and let them have what they want. People may say it's because we don't want to be as bad as them, but seriously. They've raped a child, they don't deserve any privileges unless they're found to be mentally ill, in which case care's the obvious best option.




Pigeon Army -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 9:41:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Epiphany Demon

quote:


Hardly a subject to be comical about. Yeah, child rape, barrel of laughs.

Also, given that JoeyPottr was the one espousing the woodchipper thing, I would be approaching that one with a bit of caution.


I just honestly don't believe people are going "yeah, let's chop their bollocks off with rusty spoons". I think if it came to it, they'd of course say chemical castration was the better option.


quote:

ORIGINAL: JoeyPottr
The intent is still there whether they are castrated or not I think. Practical enough for you? The wood chipper comment too blunt for here? If that makes me sound right wing, I don't know why, lots of liberals would say the some thing that I know. I don't talk around things like some people on this forum I say what I think


At least the woodchipper comment was serious. [&:]

quote:

quote:


That is a very distorted way to look at prison. They are given a free home and free food, and yes, I believe some prisons even have TVs and libraries - but they're also cut off from the outside world, have a number of the freedoms we take for granted cut off, are surrounded by thoroughly unlikable criminals, and because they're pedophiles, they're the lowest of the low in prison. I'm not condoning making prison all sunshines and lollipops for those poor, poor pedos - far from it - but it's far from the London Hilton that you make it sound like.



I've visited a friend's uncle in prison, and he says it's the best thing he could have hoped for. Arrested for possession of a firearm or whatever, he sees his wife every weekend or midweek or however they do it, he has a Dreamcast, he's allowed to make dinner requests, a number of mates in prison - and no violence. I'm not saying every single prisons like this, and of course the punishment should fit the crime... but (and especially the UK, where we just let everyone walk all over us) we're getting extorted to a point; where people can commit unspeakable atrocities but we feel the need to be the perfect gentleman and let them have what they want. People may say it's because we don't want to be as bad as them, but seriously. They've raped a child, they don't deserve any privileges unless they're found to be mentally ill, in which case care's the obvious best option.


What kind of prison was it, though? Possession of a firearm isn't exactly an offence that sees you thrown into a high-security prison, hell, I doubt it's even a medium-security prison. It's probably a facility that's more geared towards rehabilitation of small-scale and petty offenders - definitely sounds like a low-security prison - and let's be honest, possession of an unlicensed firearm is way down the other end of the scale to rape of a minor. Possessing an unlicensed firearm's not exactly the kind of thing that gets you thrown in a prison with hardened murderers and gangsters, and it's not exactly the kind of crime that throws you into a high-security prison at the bottom of the food chain, so to speak.




Epiphany Demon -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 9:49:09 AM)

Fuck you PA, and your law degree [:D] I'm probably digging myself a hole here, but here's my thoughts in summation:

Paedophiles (and of course, all people who have committed major offences) should be punished in a way that makes them suffer. If they're going to get through a prison sentence that is cut in half, that ends with them unharmed in any way and with no regret, it's a waste of time. Obviously you make good points with the murderers in there and what have you, but they should be made to look back and realise that was a very very bad mistake to make.

And about the woodchipper... my bad, I didn't realise some of us were insane [:D]




Pigeon Army -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 9:56:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Epiphany Demon

Fuck you PA, and your law degree [image]http://www.empireonline.com/forum/image/s2.gif[/image]


I don't even have it yet. [:D] Besides, they don't teach Prison 101 as part of a Law degree here, nor do I think they do so anywhere. [:D]

quote:

I'm probably digging myself a hole here, but here's my thoughts in summation:

Paedophiles (and of course, all people who have committed major offences) should be punished in a way that makes them suffer. If they're going to get through a prison sentence that is cut in half, that ends with them unharmed in any way and with no regret, it's a waste of time. Obviously you make good points with the murderers in there and what have you, but they should be made to look back and realise that was a very very bad mistake to make.


But who's to say they're not? As ilovebeerme says, they're not all living a life of luxury and getting their sentences cut in half left right and centre. Prison's not a cakewalk for child sex offenders, and it never will be. Just like it's not a cakewalk for murderers or drug dealers or fraudsters or thieves or gangsters. The entire point of prison is that it deters offenders from re-offending, but it's never going to be 100% effective, and that's especially the case with child sex offenders because a lot of them don't do it for kicks - they do it because they're biologically attracted to children, compelled to sexually abuse them. They can stop themselves, but actually having those urges can't be magicked away by a spell in prison - what prison is meant to magic away is the following through of those urges.

quote:

And about the woodchipper... my bad, I didn't realise some of us were insane [:D]


It's Pottr. Expect nothing and everything. [:D]




ilovebeerme -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 10:28:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Epiphany Demon

quote:


Hardly a subject to be comical about. Yeah, child rape, barrel of laughs.

Also, given that JoeyPottr was the one espousing the woodchipper thing, I would be approaching that one with a bit of caution.


I just honestly don't believe people are going "yeah, let's chop their bollocks off with rusty spoons". I think if it came to it, they'd of course say chemical castration was the better option.

quote:


That is a very distorted way to look at prison. They are given a free home and free food, and yes, I believe some prisons even have TVs and libraries - but they're also cut off from the outside world, have a number of the freedoms we take for granted cut off, are surrounded by thoroughly unlikable criminals, and because they're pedophiles, they're the lowest of the low in prison. I'm not condoning making prison all sunshines and lollipops for those poor, poor pedos - far from it - but it's far from the London Hilton that you make it sound like.



I've visited a friend's uncle in prison, and he says it's the best thing he could have hoped for. Arrested for possession of a firearm or whatever, he sees his wife every weekend or midweek or however they do it, he has a Dreamcast, he's allowed to make dinner requests, a number of mates in prison - and no violence. I'm not saying every single prisons like this, and of course the punishment should fit the crime... but (and especially the UK, where we just let everyone walk all over us) we're getting extorted to a point; where people can commit unspeakable atrocities but we feel the need to be the perfect gentleman and let them have what they want. People may say it's because we don't want to be as bad as them, but seriously. They've raped a child, they don't deserve any privileges unless they're found to be mentally ill, in which case care's the obvious best option.


Surely the best he could have hoped for was not to be caught? I'm surprised that you claim there is no violence in the prison you visited. Surely common sense alone would suggest that any environment with that many men in close continual contact would see more than an average level of violence. Add in the fact that many of these people are by definition violent and it's a bid of an odd claim. Do you think he was maybe just trying not to upset your mate?

I visited an open prison several years ago where there wasn't even bars or walls and they didn't have games machines and televisions. They had a TV/games room and a library and the option to take classes. The TV/games room was open for an hour a day and they were restricted to their dorm rooms of 4-6 men for several hours a day. This was in a minimum security prison that let people home at weekends and out for jobs and he was in for fraud. It was a bloody awful place.

Let's also not forget that these people are mentally ill. It may be in a deeply unpleasant way but they are nonetheless sick. You can't torture somebody for something that is part of their natural state no matter how distasteful it is. I don't think anybody wants them to be pampered and have a cushy lifestyle but we have an obligation to take at least basic care of those people our society deems undesirable.




superdan -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 2:36:20 PM)

Hmm, it appears that France could follow the Polish lead: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/02/france-considers-legalising-chemical-castration




Donnie Murdo -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 2:55:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Epiphany Demon

Number one, has anyone actually seen a woodchipper before apart from in Fargo? I haven't. You can't just get them in B&Q can you?


My Dad's got one. I might ask him to hide it when Joey's about.




JoeyPottr -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 7:48:24 PM)

I hope my woodchipper comment was not taken for comic effect, it wasn't meant to be. I am serious here. Some countries just shoot child molesters and dump them in a ditch, not the US we give let them out so they can do it again. Prison isn't always a cake walk either, child molesters don't fare too well in prison because they are absolutely hated by everyone in there. It depends, at least in the US a federal prison is different than a state prison and a military prison is different from a federal prison and a state prison.




Olaf -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 7:49:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoeyPottr

I hope my woodchipper comment was not taken for comic effect, it wasn't meant to be. I am serious here.



Good for you.




sanchia -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 7:52:21 PM)

But then you have to clean the blade which involves an awful lot of work. A woodchipper is a very labour intensive method of disposing of a body.

Take it from someone who knows.....




Olaf -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 7:54:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

But then you have to clean the blade which involves an awful lot of work. A woodchipper is a very labour intensive method of disposing of a body.

Take it from someone who knows.....


Lest we forget that Fargo was based on a true story. *looks at Sanchia*




sanchia -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3/10/2009 7:56:05 PM)

[sm=whistle.gif]




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