Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (Full Version)

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Squidward Hark Bugle -> Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 7:34:29 PM)

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE58O4LE20090925

[:'(]

Donald Tusk is detrimental to humanity, and he should be removed before Poland becomes the new Nazi Germany.




Olaf -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 7:36:26 PM)

Yeah, how dare they punish pedophiles for committing horrible, illegal acts on minors. Yeah.

Thaaat's Squidward




Scruffybobby -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 7:43:46 PM)

Bet Polanski's shitting himself.




sanchia -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 7:44:38 PM)

You do realise that they are not actually cutting their nuts off? They are providing regular injections which will lower the libido and make them less of a danger. By the look of it and the way they mention "in some cases" it will be for the predatory paedophiles who show a history or risk of reoffending or are in an environment whereby they may reoffend.




paul_ie86 -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 7:44:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scruffybobby

Bet Polanski's shitting himself.


Seeing as he's probably not going back to Poland, I doubt it.




JessFranco -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 7:46:13 PM)

It'll be interesting to see if they can get it past the ECHR. It's a bad thing and there are lots of completely bonkers politicians in Poland at the moment but it's not, in any way, comparable to the Nazis and i suspect many Poles would take justified offense at the comparison.




Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 7:53:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Yeah, how dare they punish pedophiles for committing horrible, illegal acts on minors. Yeah.

Thaaat's Squidward


You don't seriously believe I advocate child abuse, do you?

It's that PARTICULAR punishment which is a bit too devolutionary for my taste.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

You do realise that they are not actually cutting their nuts off? They are providing regular injections which will lower the libido and make them less of a danger. By the look of it and the way they mention "in some cases" it will be for the predatory paedophiles who show a history or risk of reoffending or are in an environment whereby they may reoffend.


I'm aware of this. It doesn't make it any more acceptable. There was an Olympic athlete who competed as a woman in the 1936 Berlin Olympic Games, and won Gold, but was later discovered to be a man. He was given the choice of either prison or chemical castration. He opted for the latter, and ended up killing himself because he no longer had any drive in life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JessFranco

It'll be interesting to see if they can get it past the ECHR. It's a bad thing and there are lots of completely bonkers politicians in Poland at the moment but it's not, in any way, comparable to the Nazis and i suspect many Poles would take justified offense at the comparison.


Donald Tusk referred to paedophiles as less than human, as creatures. Creatures, just like the Jews were treated during the Holocaust.




spamandham -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 7:53:32 PM)

What an incredibly enlightened government Poland has at the moment... [sm=rolleyes10.gif]

Tusk is a disgrace, hopefully the Poles will kick out their right wing morons asap.




Harley Quinn -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 7:59:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Yeah, how dare they punish pedophiles for committing horrible, illegal acts on minors. Yeah.

Thaaat's Squidward


You don't seriously believe I advocate child abuse, do you?

It's that PARTICULAR punishment which is a bit too devolutionary for my taste.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

You do realise that they are not actually cutting their nuts off? They are providing regular injections which will lower the libido and make them less of a danger. By the look of it and the way they mention "in some cases" it will be for the predatory paedophiles who show a history or risk of reoffending or are in an environment whereby they may reoffend.


I'm aware of this. It doesn't make it any more acceptable. There was an Olympic athlete who competed as a woman in the 1936 Berlin Olympic Games, and won Gold, but was later discovered to be a man. He was given the choice of either prison or chemical castration. He opted for the latter, and ended up killing himself because he no longer had any drive in life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JessFranco

It'll be interesting to see if they can get it past the ECHR. It's a bad thing and there are lots of completely bonkers politicians in Poland at the moment but it's not, in any way, comparable to the Nazis and i suspect many Poles would take justified offense at the comparison.


Donald Tusk referred to paedophiles as less than human, as creatures. Creatures, just like the Jews were treated during the Holocaust.




I never get involved in these debates because I don't normally have enough information.

But seriously are you comparing the holocaust where people were slaughted by the thousand because of their religious beliefs and people who have sex with babies and children being given an injection to lower their sex drive?





Olaf -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 7:59:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Yeah, how dare they punish pedophiles for committing horrible, illegal acts on minors. Yeah.

Thaaat's Squidward


You don't seriously believe I advocate child abuse, do you?

It's that PARTICULAR punishment which is a bit too devolutionary for my taste.



That's fair enough, apologies. I didn't mean to suggest that (I agree with you in fact, to some extent). The only thing is, what real alternatives are there? As horrible a punishment as it is from a human rights perspective, I can't really think of a more workable substitute. (though this is in part to do with my own lack of education on the subject.)




JessFranco -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 8:00:13 PM)

quote:

I'm aware of this. It doesn't make it any more acceptable. There was an Olympic athlete who competed as a woman in the 1936 Berlin Olympic Games, and won Gold, but was later discovered to be a man. He was given the choice of either prison or chemical castration. He opted for the latter, and ended up killing himself because he no longer had any drive in life.


The difference is that the chemicals they would be using here are reversible in their effect. They're used to inhibit libido, not to cause any lasting damage after the drugs have been stopped. They're used widely across Europe for this purpose, including in the UK. Outside of Poland, this would be on a voluntary basis.

quote:

Donald Tusk referred to paedophiles as less than human, as creatures. Creatures, just like the Jews were treated during the Holocaust.


It's a stupid rhetorical device, not a statement of intent ahead of genocide. The Polish government has many ridiculous features, some of them mildly alarming, but Tusk is not even vaguely similar to Hitler.




Keyser Sozzled -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 8:11:20 PM)

quote:

Donald Tusk referred to paedophiles as less than human, as creatures. Creatures, just like the Jews were treated during the Holocaust.


Oh dear god.

Thats really stretching it, even for you Squid

Are you saying that you are against non life threatening, reversible chemical intervention in cases where someone has sexual intercourse with a child?




Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 8:12:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harley Quinn

I never get involved in these debates because I don't normally have enough information.

But seriously are you comparing the holocaust where people were slaughted by the thousand because of their religious beliefs and people who have sex with babies and children being given an injection to lower their sex drive?



No. I'm comparing the mentality of those who give cause for those things to happen. Adolf Hitler obviously considered Jews less than human. Donald Tusk actually said he considers paedophiles less than human. The results of one are clearly more extreme than the other, but their mentalities are comparable.




Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 8:14:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keyser Sozzled

quote:

Donald Tusk referred to paedophiles as less than human, as creatures. Creatures, just like the Jews were treated during the Holocaust.


Oh dear god.

Thats really stretching it, even for you Squid

Are you saying that you are against non life threatening, reversible chemical intervention in cases where someone has sexual intercourse with a child?


Where someone has HAD sexual intercourse with a child, past tense. Chemical castration won't cause past abuse to not have happened. And it's not the only thing that will prevent it from happening again.




Keyser Sozzled -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 8:16:12 PM)

quote:

Where someone has HAD sexual intercourse with a child, past tense. Chemical castration won't cause past abuse to not have happened. And it's not the only thing that will prevent it from happening again.


Well its pretty difficult to administer it when someone is actually engaged in the disgusting act now isn't it?

Your world view troubles me Squid, really troubles me




Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 8:18:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keyser Sozzled

quote:

Where someone has HAD sexual intercourse with a child, past tense. Chemical castration won't cause past abuse to not have happened. And it's not the only thing that will prevent it from happening again.


Well its pretty difficult to administer it when someone is actually engaged in the disgusting act now isn't it?

Your world view troubles me Squid, really troubles me


Did you understand what I wrote?




JessFranco -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 8:20:11 PM)

Opposing mandatory chemical castration isn't a particularly controversial idea - it's not used in any country in Europe at the moment.




Olaf -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 8:20:22 PM)

Not sure if it's relevant or not, but it's worth taking into account that said therapy will only take place after they've completed their prison sentence. Rather than replacing the current system, it's making a previously-voluntary element of the rehabilitation mandatory.




Keyser Sozzled -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 8:22:30 PM)

quote:

Did you understand what I wrote?


Do you understand what you are advocating?

If you have a view on the merits of chemical castration that is one thing and although I don't agree you are more than entitled to your opinion. However when your point is partly based on a viewpoint of "Well there is no point as whats done is done" ......(which is not the first time you have aired a similar view on issues surrounding crime and punishment) leads me to thank god you are not in a position of power





Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 8:35:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keyser Sozzled

quote:

Did you understand what I wrote?


Do you understand what you are advocating?

If you have a view on the merits of chemical castration that is one thing and although I don't agree you are more than entitled to your opinion. However when your point is partly based on a viewpoint of "Well there is no point as whats done is done" ......(which is not the first time you have aired a similar view on issues surrounding crime and punishment) leads me to thank god you are not in a position of power




"What's done is done" is a very fundamental logic.

Nearly everyone overlooks it because they desire revenge, and it doesn't fit in with that.




BishopQuaker -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 9:07:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scruffybobby

Bet Polanski's shitting himself.


Well, they might take his balls but at least he can still have a good quality dump.




Mogwai -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 9:08:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keyser Sozzled

quote:

Did you understand what I wrote?


Do you understand what you are advocating?

If you have a view on the merits of chemical castration that is one thing and although I don't agree you are more than entitled to your opinion. However when your point is partly based on a viewpoint of "Well there is no point as whats done is done" ......(which is not the first time you have aired a similar view on issues surrounding crime and punishment) leads me to thank god you are not in a position of power




"What's done is done" is a very fundamental logic.

Nearly everyone overlooks it because they desire revenge, and it doesn't fit in with that.



What? I don't understand this, revenge has nothing to do anything. This weird logic you have is alarming, are you suggesting that there is no point to punishing someone who commits a crime because, as you say, "what's done is done"?




Keyser Sozzled -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 9:12:47 PM)

quote:

What? I don't understand this, revenge has nothing to do anything. This weird logic you have is alarming, are you suggesting that there is no point to punishing someone who commits a crime because, as you say, "what's done is done"?


Thaaaaats Squidward

The fact is Squidward your constant parroting the "revenge" card come across as naive.




simonmckergan1 -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 9:56:37 PM)

I support any treatmeant given to pedophiles that would stop them ever being able to rob a child of their innocence.  Personally, I'd put the human rights of pedophiles right at the bottom of the "I don't give a fuck about them list".




sanchia -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 10:21:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keyser Sozzled

quote:

Donald Tusk referred to paedophiles as less than human, as creatures. Creatures, just like the Jews were treated during the Holocaust.


Oh dear god.

Thats really stretching it, even for you Squid

Are you saying that you are against non life threatening, reversible chemical intervention in cases where someone has sexual intercourse with a child?


Where someone has HAD sexual intercourse with a child, past tense. Chemical castration won't cause past abuse to not have happened. And it's not the only thing that will prevent it from happening again.



It is a preventative measure for future reoffending as far as I can see. Other options would be therapy which is notoriously unsuccessful on paedophiles working on (if memory serves of my psychology course) less than 10% of paedophiles with the rest seeking to reoffend. There is also the option of life imprisonment which in itself is troubling or physical and permanent castration.




krudler -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (28/9/2009 10:48:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keyser Sozzled

quote:

Did you understand what I wrote?


Do you understand what you are advocating?

If you have a view on the merits of chemical castration that is one thing and although I don't agree you are more than entitled to your opinion. However when your point is partly based on a viewpoint of "Well there is no point as whats done is done" ......(which is not the first time you have aired a similar view on issues surrounding crime and punishment) leads me to thank god you are not in a position of power




"What's done is done" is a very fundamental logic.

Nearly everyone overlooks it because they desire revenge, and it doesn't fit in with that.



so, just to clarify, if you had a younger sister or brother, or son or daughter, and some guy abused them, raped them, took pictures of them and put them on the internet for other scumbags to jerk off over, you wouldnt want anything done as "whats done is done"?

chemical castrastion is too good for these fucks, castration with a rusty spoon and being fed their own balls would be more appropriate




superdan -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (29/9/2009 12:20:22 AM)

Squiddy, I don't think you are ever going to convince anyone that a crime doesn't deserve a punishment - particularly when we are talking about paedophilia. I find the idea of forced chemical castration distateful from a moral point of view, but to compare the decision to Nazi Germany was ill-advised (dare I say it, offensive). And to use your oft-repeated arguement that it won't change the past is has already been said naive.

You seem to have more scorn for 'revenge' (or punishment as it is more usually known) than the crime that inspired it. I doubt anyone who has been the victim of crime in any form would agree, and rightly so. This ignores the main point that has been made already - ignoring a crime won't help to prevent someone re-offending. Punishment can. I'm not saying it is foolproof, but locking a criminal up, or in this case removing their sexual desire to abuse children can prevent another child/adult/family going through the horror that other victims of crime have endured.




Shifty Bench -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (29/9/2009 2:25:59 AM)

quote:

Where someone has HAD sexual intercourse with a child, past tense. Chemical castration won't cause past abuse to not have happened. And it's not the only thing that will prevent it from happening again.


It's this attitude that pisses folk off, Squid. While I wholeheartedly believe you don't advocate the abuse of children you also don't seem to advocate punishing those that do. This 'what's done is done' attitude is really fucking scary. This is innocent children we are talking about, man, sometimes it's babies who can't even begin to comprehend what is happening to them. You seem to believe that because we haven't stopped the act in happening or before it happened then it's society's fault so there's no point in punishing the scum that did it. Isn't it good enough that we can stop it from happening again? Locking the up won't take the sexual desire away....




JoeyPottr -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (29/9/2009 4:59:27 AM)

It's been scientifically proven that paedophilles cannot be rehabilitated. Forcible castration for them, well you know what I'm going to say here, line them up. All these child killers from the past decade have been recidivists from prison/jail and they have been in prison/jail for paedophilia/ child molestation (the lowest form of criminal in prison even hardcore murderers don't like these guys) People who harm children should be taken out and hanged from the nearest tree. Good for Poland, if only the US would do this, not going to happen because there's too many bleeding hearts here.




Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (29/9/2009 5:56:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogwai

What? I don't understand this, revenge has nothing to do anything. This weird logic you have is alarming, are you suggesting that there is no point to punishing someone who commits a crime because, as you say, "what's done is done"?


I didn't say that. I'm just highlighting the illogic of administering "preventative" treatment on a person who has already committed the act.

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

Squiddy, I don't think you are ever going to convince anyone that a crime doesn't deserve a punishment - particularly when we are talking about paedophilia. I find the idea of forced chemical castration distateful from a moral point of view, but to compare the decision to Nazi Germany was ill-advised (dare I say it, offensive). And to use your oft-repeated arguement that it won't change the past is has already been said naive.

You seem to have more scorn for 'revenge' (or punishment as it is more usually known) than the crime that inspired it. I doubt anyone who has been the victim of crime in any form would agree, and rightly so. This ignores the main point that has been made already - ignoring a crime won't help to prevent someone re-offending. Punishment can. I'm not saying it is foolproof, but locking a criminal up, or in this case removing their sexual desire to abuse children can prevent another child/adult/family going through the horror that other victims of crime have endured.


All malicious acts need to addressed in some way. I never said they should be ignored.

I have a great deal of scorn for revenge. Somehow people think that since they're against the malice that occurred that they're somehow in the right, when the act of revenge, when taken out of context, whatever it might be, would appear to be a malicious act itself. It's extra malice in response to malice. It's unnecessary and harmful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

Where someone has HAD sexual intercourse with a child, past tense. Chemical castration won't cause past abuse to not have happened. And it's not the only thing that will prevent it from happening again.


It's this attitude that pisses folk off, Squid. While I wholeheartedly believe you don't advocate the abuse of children you also don't seem to advocate punishing those that do. This 'what's done is done' attitude is really fucking scary. This is innocent children we are talking about, man, sometimes it's babies who can't even begin to comprehend what is happening to them. You seem to believe that because we haven't stopped the act in happening or before it happened then it's society's fault so there's no point in punishing the scum that did it. Isn't it good enough that we can stop it from happening again? Locking the up won't take the sexual desire away....



Is this is a football match? Do I have to belong in either one team or another? I don't advocate child abuse, and I don't advocate mandatory chemical castration. They're both malicious and can destroy the person to whom it is being done.

In general, paedophiles are considered mentally unstable, right? They're said to have a psychosexual disorder, which causes them to feel attraction to children and babies, and, given the illegality of having sex with children, have to resort to rape to get off. They should be placed in a mental institution until they are rehabilitated, and even if it doesn't work, just keep them there. They're not criminals who simply chose to commit the act; they had these urges that they couldn't control.




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