RE: Four stars? For this?

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Emyr Thy King -> RE: Four stars? For this? (6/6/2009 2:59:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dh_19 Are we even talking about arrogance? I was but you labelled my assertions as scrotal. quote: I was interested in why Skynet's plan failed. By showing interest you mean heaping derision on the film? Rather than critiquing it in a more objective manner. quote: It's possible to be arrogant yet still succeed. Yet arrogance can lead one to folly and to underestimate an opponent. quote: What you're talking about is stupidity (i'm sure there'll be a witty comeback here). In your opinion it is idiocy. My belief is there is a possibility that the writers were alluding at some thing more (which I have already elaborated on in detail and even highlighted how it began in Terminator 2). It's good to know my comments have hit their mark. quote: Essentially, Skynet failed at the most significant thing it ever needed to address through sheer idiocy. Rather than establish Skynet as a terrifying villain for the trilogy, the writers instead decided to throw in a 'cool' fight involving a sole CG Arnie, despite it making no sense in the context of it's importance and where it took place and for the fact that it made the chief villain look stupid, from which i don't know how it'll recover. You argue it was written to provide some ambiguity to Skynet's development, whereas i simply put it down to sacrificing a well written finale for a 60 second money shot. If you mean (although unlikely) that it behaved stupidly by allowing itself to succumb to arrogance then yes that would be an interesting point. I don't see how the final 'act' has lessened Skynet's malevolence and malice, if any thing it shows how cunning and ruthless it can be if it likes to treat its prey with such callousness. Yes of course there's the 'magic shot' which is there to entertain and can in instances compromise realism/believability if there is no logic or reason for such action (I believe there is logic to it and therefore a valid justification). Whether one wishes to discern a patter or not, if one can spot a logical path or train of thought then it should not be rubbished. To state that Skynet made an error from which one would not know how it recovers is leaning towards hyperbole. Skynet lost one base (out of many) and did not capitalise on an opportunity to kill its nemesis (in Greek legend Nemesis was the punisher of Hubris) yet it will have plenty of other opportunities. On the one hand it decapitated the Resistance's hierarchy yet simultaneously elevated its messiac enemy to the top of the Resistance command structure. This could cause the Resistance to fall into disarray and it would be up to John and Kate Connor to reorganise the command structure of the Resistance. Moreover John Connor has primarily only had experience dealing with tactical rather than strategic decisions. Interesting indeed. quote: This is what my inital post was referring to and was all i was interested in. I replied to your other arguments about the Terminators evolving to take some sadistic pleasure in their mission because although i don't necessarily agree with them, you're right in saying that it's an interesting universe James Cameron has created and so naturally, i find your posts a good read. Fine yet I managed to expand on what you said and elaborated further. I'm sure I only deduced that the T-1000 (and Skynet) displayed characteristics that would suggest they are self-aware to the point of exhibiting such things as sadism etc. Again this is where the term implication comes into play. One may not have intended for some thing to be evident/exist in a storyline. Yet it doesn't mean that it isn't there. Why is why I bring in my ideas, to try and extrapolate some sort of sense or logic and perhaps draw new conclusions and insights. This for me is valuable which is why I strongly object to my efforts being labelled "bollocks" or some such profanity. quote: Obviously T2 is the key but since i haven't seen it in years, i'm sure there are others on these boards who also differ in opinion but can provide a much more insightful argument. However, i interpreted the T-1000's 'humour' as a basic response to a given situation. Like a more advanced series of reactions that we see the T-800 access in T1 ("Fuck you, asshole") so that the T-1000 can infiltrate and believeably pass as a human being. It's not that it enjoys a good laugh. If you delve deeper into Terminator 2, if you take onboard the insights found in the Wikipedia articles and observe the T-1000's mannerisms and reactions. It strongly suggest that there is far more to its intelligence than mere pre-programmed responses which happen to be a tad more comprehensive and advanced than a previous terminator model. The way in which the T-1000 has a shocked look on its face when hit by a M79 grenade. The way it looks strangely at the mannequin which resembles its liquid form. The reason it kills the dog at the foster parents' house (annoyance). The same when it beats the T-800 with an iron bar (not to mention some sadism) The finger wagging etc. These are characteristics which are not 'functions' (I.e. they are not necessary for him to carry out his mission to kill John Connor). Why pin Sarah Connor to a wall and demand that she call for John Connor when it could easily to it itself? What you haven't acknowledged is that the T-1000's infiltration came down to it displaying an awareness that was absent from previous terminators. This is the ultimate terminator. One that is almost like its target prey and in my view its creator. Considering that the T-1000 was an advanced prototype, presumably the first and only one of its kind. It was highly experimental, highly advanced and not subject to the same restrictions as the T-800 series for instance. quote: Their ideas only seem clever if you interpret things that aren't there. On the flip side you may miss things that are there. I was referencing to what the writers included in the third Terminator film. The addition of the internet as Skynet's mode of existence (and takeover), the use of the virus to ensure its full activation, the lack of a system core, the use of Kate Connor (which could have been disastrous) and the T-X. These were creative ideas. quote: For fuck's sake man, lighten up. If i thought you had implied any genuine prejudice then i wouldn't reply to you. Any one who's subjected to your humour would need to lighten up. It may not be a problem for you but if some one accuses me of some thing (some thing which does not sit well in my mind) of course I am going to react strongly. Besides it's the sort of remark I would expect in a schoolyard not on what should be a forum for mature posters. Besides, how the hell am I supposed to know that you wouldn't reply to some one if they displayed 'offensive' prejudice. I don't know you well enough to make such a judgement (each person reacts differently). Next time think before you post. quote: The T-1000 never lost sight of it's objective. Are you having me on now because you can't believe this point? The T-1000 momentarily loses John Connor because it is attacked. As soon as it puts Arnie through a wall it doesn't arrogantly swagger over to him with a smug look on it's face, it continues with it's pursuit. Referring to Terminator Salvation, neither did the T-800 lose John Connor. It managed to track him whilst going through a large complex. In comparison, the final 'showdown' in the previous locations were in more confined spaces/areas. I also liked how the T-800 was stalking John Connor. I don't recall the T-800 'swaggering over' to John Connor but if that's how you interpreted then I don't care. I brought up the tussle between the T-1000 and T-800 (Galleria) to contrast and compare with your points about how the T-800 in the fourth film threw John Connor around like rag doll. A scene in which you were aghast as if this was never prevalent in the Terminator series. Where I pointed out that it was prevalent and highlighted examples. Of course the T-1000 wouldn't bother with the T-800 as John Connor was its target. Speaking of that fight. The T-1000 didn't waltz over to T-800 but it did give a perplexed look when it saw the mannequin.

Ghidorah -> RE: Terminator Salvation (6/6/2009 8:37:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sanchia quote: ORIGINAL: dh_19 quote: ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King The transistion from being a veterinarian to a physician(*) would not be so much of a jump for her (given that she has some experience in medical practice). I would certainly say she is a combat medic and therefore would require to perform some surgery in the field, given the range of battlefield injuries and the severity of certain injuries (abdomen wounds or severed artery for example). The only thing i'm questioning is how many patients requiring a heart transplant could she have encountered? But as you say, neither of us are experts so yeah, i can let this go. I only brought it up for a joke but i'm glad you expanded on it. Plus, had the operation been performed by the end of the film? May be he was being flown to a surgeon, who knows? It was a shit end regardless. Potential SPOILER I haven't seen the film but heard of this bit from an incredulous friend who thought this was an incredibly stupid aspect. If he required a heart transplant they would firstly need to tissue type him. If it got past the gigantic odds that he was compatible then the transplant would need to take place which is a very complex procedure requiring a complete bypass of the circulatory system utilising a machine to oxegenate the blood. From that point on the recipient of the heart would need to stay on immunosuppresent drugs to avoid rejecting the organ. You don't just go. Oh, dodgy ticker eh? Have mine I don't need it. Marcus heart is responsible for fleshing him and fast recovery. It isn't a ordinary heart but purposely created in Skynet's lab and could possibly adapt to any body. If the heart is marcus original then I would agree but because it was made in Skynet's lab for an unknown brain then it has to be universal.

sanchia -> RE: Terminator Salvation (6/6/2009 9:13:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ghidorah quote: ORIGINAL: sanchia quote: ORIGINAL: dh_19 quote: ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King The transistion from being a veterinarian to a physician(*) would not be so much of a jump for her (given that she has some experience in medical practice). I would certainly say she is a combat medic and therefore would require to perform some surgery in the field, given the range of battlefield injuries and the severity of certain injuries (abdomen wounds or severed artery for example). The only thing i'm questioning is how many patients requiring a heart transplant could she have encountered? But as you say, neither of us are experts so yeah, i can let this go. I only brought it up for a joke but i'm glad you expanded on it. Plus, had the operation been performed by the end of the film? May be he was being flown to a surgeon, who knows? It was a shit end regardless. Potential SPOILER I haven't seen the film but heard of this bit from an incredulous friend who thought this was an incredibly stupid aspect. If he required a heart transplant they would firstly need to tissue type him. If it got past the gigantic odds that he was compatible then the transplant would need to take place which is a very complex procedure requiring a complete bypass of the circulatory system utilising a machine to oxegenate the blood. From that point on the recipient of the heart would need to stay on immunosuppresent drugs to avoid rejecting the organ. You don't just go. Oh, dodgy ticker eh? Have mine I don't need it. Marcus heart is responsible for fleshing him and fast recovery. It isn't a ordinary heart but purposely created in Skynet's lab and could possibly adapt to any body. If the heart is marcus original then I would agree but because it was made in Skynet's lab for an unknown brain then it has to be universal. So any future films will feature a super John Conner with Wolverine like recovery then?

adambatman82 -> RE: Terminator Salvation (6/6/2009 9:57:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ghidorah quote: ORIGINAL: sanchia quote: ORIGINAL: dh_19 quote: ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King The transistion from being a veterinarian to a physician(*) would not be so much of a jump for her (given that she has some experience in medical practice). I would certainly say she is a combat medic and therefore would require to perform some surgery in the field, given the range of battlefield injuries and the severity of certain injuries (abdomen wounds or severed artery for example). The only thing i'm questioning is how many patients requiring a heart transplant could she have encountered? But as you say, neither of us are experts so yeah, i can let this go. I only brought it up for a joke but i'm glad you expanded on it. Plus, had the operation been performed by the end of the film? May be he was being flown to a surgeon, who knows? It was a shit end regardless. Potential SPOILER I haven't seen the film but heard of this bit from an incredulous friend who thought this was an incredibly stupid aspect. If he required a heart transplant they would firstly need to tissue type him. If it got past the gigantic odds that he was compatible then the transplant would need to take place which is a very complex procedure requiring a complete bypass of the circulatory system utilising a machine to oxegenate the blood. From that point on the recipient of the heart would need to stay on immunosuppresent drugs to avoid rejecting the organ. You don't just go. Oh, dodgy ticker eh? Have mine I don't need it. Marcus heart is responsible for fleshing him and fast recovery. It isn't a ordinary heart but purposely created in Skynet's lab and could possibly adapt to any body. If the heart is marcus original then I would agree but because it was made in Skynet's lab for an unknown brain then it has to be universal. is that true? i dont recall that being mentioned in the film, and if the case would make the outcome even more ridiculous. surely the shot from the point of view of the T-800 that indicates Marcus' heart as a vulnerable point would suggest it was simply a normal heart?

st3veebee -> RE: Terminator Salvation (6/6/2009 11:38:06 AM)
My real concern is how little faith I have in Empire any more, regarding blockbusters anyway, as they seem to just give four stars to every new big film they've promoted to death. TS is hardly a disaster and did hold my attention throughout with some good-verygood set pieces, but I couldn't find one gram of originality anywhere. God only knows what the Inglourious Basterds will be like....... (Already posted, can Empire criticize Christian Bale just once?!?!?!)

kenada_woo -> RE: Four stars? For this? (6/6/2009 12:39:37 PM)
quote: The Terminators never got hold of their prime targets in all of the previous terminator films. Everyone else who gets in their way either get machine gunned, stabbed, thrown etc for said Terminator to get to its main target - Sarah Conner or John Conner. quote: Although the terminators in the previous film (bar two) were strictly sent to assassinate their targets, nothing more. Furthermore why would the T-800 ask the punks for one of them to give it their clothing when it could easily kill them all and take whatever clothing it desired. Unless of course it used this opportunity to further its understanding of human interaction and responses (sampling idioms and so forth). On a further point, the T-1000 chose to pierce Sarah Connor's shoulder rather than kill her immediately. It didn't need her to "call for John" when it could do that all on its own. Again, that is all down to the T-800 and the T-1000 using what they can to get to their goal - to Kill John or Sarah Conner. That's why they have those human behaviour CPU's so they can become more effecient and reaching their goals and targets. quote: Many terminators get hold of 2 main targets - Reese and Conner - and proceed to throw them about. Especially having Reese locked up for countless hours, singled out, and then left alone. quote: Many? There's the T-600 at the beginning which was cut in half and John Connor promptly finished it off. There were the Hydrobots which John Connor managed to handle (with the exception of one being dealt by Marcus Wright). Kyle Reese is spotted by the frizzbee bot (whatever its called), another T-600 in the holding plant in Skynet, and 2 Harvesters....and I'm sure those mototerminators saw Reese also. I'll give you the one about Conner though. quote: Skynet didnt need both Reese and Conner in the same place. They just needed Marcus to lead the two people to Skynet. Why they were not killed or kept alive is not given explination. Plot hole. quote: Fine yet this only leaves us with the explanation that Skynet had a specific plan with John Connor. The plan was not elaborated on which either comes down to a lapse on the part of the writers or they remarkably placed a lot of faith in the audience. Which leaves me to do much of the explaining! I like to draw implications from things, regardless of intent by the writer(s)/creator(s). For instance Ridley Scott says that Rick Deckard from Blade Runner is a Replicant and any one who disagrees with him is "an idiot". Would you draw the same conclusion based on what he said? But the thing people forget with Blade Runner is that the film is built from the go to have ambigiuous connatations, there is ground work in the film that make you draw conclusions. There is nothing like that in Terminator Salvation. The whole point of the film is for Marcus to lead Kyle Reese and John Conner to Skynet......and do what? Its not explained. So all we get to go on is the fact Skynet want the two dead (as they do in the previous films) being their are Terminators trying to kill both of them in the film. Maybe I'm being snobbish but the director of Charlies Angels and the writers of Catwoman arent going to leave the "unanswered questions" up to its audience to figure out in a 200million dollar summer blockbuster. quote: The excuse of "they were toying with them like the previous films etc" doesnt make sense when Terminators "cant be bargined with. Cant be reasoned with. And they absolutely will not stop, ever, till you are dead". quote: It does when you're dealing with Skynet directly and not mere agents of Skynet that are sent out alone with specific mission parameters. Terminator 2 sheds light on the T-800s in a scene where John and Sarah Connor access the T-800's central processing unit and reset the read-only switch. See here :- Terminator 2 Cutscene Thats true. But the Terminators in Salvation are all not as advanced as the T-800. So the Terminators, you could say, would be just set up specific perameters (protect Skynet blah blah blah). But the T-800 in Salvation is programmed to get John Conner - he locks on in his infa-red mode on John Conner as "Target" and doesnt dispatch Marcus easily, mainly throwing him about to get to Conner. Also the T-1000 and the T-X wouldnt have thouse chips Arnie has. And Salvation also sets up a Cyborg more advanced than all the above models even when they just have made the T-800. Its all over the shop when you think of it like that.

dhowdy -> RE: Four stars? For this? (6/6/2009 3:38:30 PM)
i dont think anyone but Cameron ought to be allowed anyone near this project. this was his baby and he started it so he ought to bloody well finish it. The Terminator was/is a classic. T2 was bloody good but lost the darkness of the original.... T3 was just an insult to the intellect and i doubt i'll even bother with this one. i couldnt really give a toss about Skynet.

Qwerty Norris -> RE: A Good Start (6/6/2009 4:21:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kingalan Saw it on Wednesday but couldn't be arsed opinionising until now. Distinctly average at best. I'd say I was disappointed but the truth is, I was expecting it to be this weak. Besides a few well-staged set-pieces there wasn't any positive aspects. Even the set-pieces, as good as they looked, annoyed me as the concepts behind them were ridiculous. Case in point: the eel-like machines living in the lake... what the christ?? The sequence was great but would have been better in Jurassic Park, not a fucking Terminator film. I think the main underlying problem was the fact that the war itself is actually not particularly compelling. If it was Cameron would have set T2 during it, but he knew what makes a perfectly engrossing concept. The original hunter/hunted theme is unbeatable and the snippets we got of the future war were enough. The idea that this huge world-changing event and subsequent war is on the cards but we get a smaller, more personal story which precedes it is what was so intriguing about those first two films. Being in the heart of the war for two hours was ultimately just boring. Add to this Bale being woefully underused, the over-abundance of machines (giant ones, vehicular ones... fucking wriggly ones...), certain sequences being not-as-good rehashes of classic moments from the originals and that dreadful Arnie "cameo" and we're left with a forgettable flick. T3 wasn't great but at least it had that brillaint ending... ** Spot on....every word.

fletch666 -> RE: I liked it a fair bit... (6/6/2009 6:41:17 PM)
Just got back from seeing this and it was ok, 3 out of 5. Would like to see the non studio edited version of this as there feels like there's a lot of story missing. The action and the performances were good but the dialogue was distinctly ropey at best. Loved the Arnie cameo, good to see him being the menace from the original again

jrewing1000 -> RE: Terminator Salvation (6/6/2009 8:09:25 PM)
Absolute shite. I thought the script was utter nonsense, this movie starts out quite exciting with a fantastic set piece introducing Bale. But it's one long downward slope after that, descending into one ridiculous idea after the next. I mean how exactly does Connor survive a metal pole through the chest?? Silliness aside, McG was pretty good, but let down by another pointless Terminator movie. No more please!!!

Ghidorah -> RE: Terminator Salvation (6/6/2009 8:23:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adambatman82 quote: ORIGINAL: Ghidorah quote: ORIGINAL: sanchia quote: ORIGINAL: dh_19 quote: ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King The transistion from being a veterinarian to a physician(*) would not be so much of a jump for her (given that she has some experience in medical practice). I would certainly say she is a combat medic and therefore would require to perform some surgery in the field, given the range of battlefield injuries and the severity of certain injuries (abdomen wounds or severed artery for example). The only thing i'm questioning is how many patients requiring a heart transplant could she have encountered? But as you say, neither of us are experts so yeah, i can let this go. I only brought it up for a joke but i'm glad you expanded on it. Plus, had the operation been performed by the end of the film? May be he was being flown to a surgeon, who knows? It was a shit end regardless. Potential SPOILER I haven't seen the film but heard of this bit from an incredulous friend who thought this was an incredibly stupid aspect. If he required a heart transplant they would firstly need to tissue type him. If it got past the gigantic odds that he was compatible then the transplant would need to take place which is a very complex procedure requiring a complete bypass of the circulatory system utilising a machine to oxegenate the blood. From that point on the recipient of the heart would need to stay on immunosuppresent drugs to avoid rejecting the organ. You don't just go. Oh, dodgy ticker eh? Have mine I don't need it. Marcus heart is responsible for fleshing him and fast recovery. It isn't a ordinary heart but purposely created in Skynet's lab and could possibly adapt to any body. If the heart is marcus original then I would agree but because it was made in Skynet's lab for an unknown brain then it has to be universal. is that true? i dont recall that being mentioned in the film, and if the case would make the outcome even more ridiculous. surely the shot from the point of view of the T-800 that indicates Marcus' heart as a vulnerable point would suggest it was simply a normal heart? Spoilers marcus endoskeleton is more advance than the TRIP/T800 and they came online earlier than the T700. Someone or a group has traveled back in time and aid Skynet with plans of future endoskeletons, a hit list of unknown people aka Reese and may even sold cyberdyn to the US military to restart Judgement day. marcus has an extra ordinary heart. It is strong, can withstand a lot strain, can regrow lost flesh and I doubt this heart was his original. When marcus brain is transfered from his skeleton to his cyborg body, we do not know what else been transfered. John Connor suffered a lot of injuries but with Marcus's heart, he was back on his feet and ready to lead again. Marcus got blown up a few times, got attack by a harvester and took on a T RIP. He was feeling all this pain but he kept on going.

sanchia -> RE: Terminator Salvation (6/6/2009 9:56:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ghidorah quote: ORIGINAL: adambatman82 quote: ORIGINAL: Ghidorah quote: ORIGINAL: sanchia quote: ORIGINAL: dh_19 quote: ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King The transistion from being a veterinarian to a physician(*) would not be so much of a jump for her (given that she has some experience in medical practice). I would certainly say she is a combat medic and therefore would require to perform some surgery in the field, given the range of battlefield injuries and the severity of certain injuries (abdomen wounds or severed artery for example). The only thing i'm questioning is how many patients requiring a heart transplant could she have encountered? But as you say, neither of us are experts so yeah, i can let this go. I only brought it up for a joke but i'm glad you expanded on it. Plus, had the operation been performed by the end of the film? May be he was being flown to a surgeon, who knows? It was a shit end regardless. Potential SPOILER I haven't seen the film but heard of this bit from an incredulous friend who thought this was an incredibly stupid aspect. If he required a heart transplant they would firstly need to tissue type him. If it got past the gigantic odds that he was compatible then the transplant would need to take place which is a very complex procedure requiring a complete bypass of the circulatory system utilising a machine to oxegenate the blood. From that point on the recipient of the heart would need to stay on immunosuppresent drugs to avoid rejecting the organ. You don't just go. Oh, dodgy ticker eh? Have mine I don't need it. Marcus heart is responsible for fleshing him and fast recovery. It isn't a ordinary heart but purposely created in Skynet's lab and could possibly adapt to any body. If the heart is marcus original then I would agree but because it was made in Skynet's lab for an unknown brain then it has to be universal. is that true? i dont recall that being mentioned in the film, and if the case would make the outcome even more ridiculous. surely the shot from the point of view of the T-800 that indicates Marcus' heart as a vulnerable point would suggest it was simply a normal heart? Spoilers marcus endoskeleton is more advance than the TRIP/T800 and they came online earlier than the T700. Someone or a group has traveled back in time and aid Skynet with plans of future endoskeletons, a hit list of unknown people aka Reese and may even sold cyberdyn to the US military to restart Judgement day. marcus has an extra ordinary heart. It is strong, can withstand a lot strain, can regrow lost flesh and I doubt this heart was his original. When marcus brain is transfered from his skeleton to his cyborg body, we do not know what else been transfered. John Connor suffered a lot of injuries but with Marcus's heart, he was back on his feet and ready to lead again. Marcus got blown up a few times, got attack by a harvester and took on a T RIP. He was feeling all this pain but he kept on going. Ah, so it is supposition then.

Olaf -> RE: Terminator Salvation (6/6/2009 10:03:27 PM)
Is any of the stuff Ghidorah mentioned actually in the film?

Emyr Thy King -> RE: Four stars? For this? (7/6/2009 12:53:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kenada_woo Again, that is all down to the T-800 and the T-1000 using what they can to get to their goal - to Kill John or Sarah Conner. That's why they have those human behaviour CPU's so they can become more effecient and reaching their goals and targets. My original point with regards to the T-800 and T-1000 (a unique creation) being sent out alone was to signify that they were not in contact with Skynet and therefore could not be controlled by it. My feeling is that Skynet at the climax of Terminator Salvation was vicariously punishing and tormenting John Connor through the use of its new T-800 creation (therefore controlling it). John Connor is the voice of the Resistance, he is its champion and he is the very embodiment of the human will to resist Skynet. This makes him a major threat to Skynet and thus explains why Skynet would formulate an elaborate plan in order to get one over its enemy. Sure it isn't logical but Skynet is not a Vulcan. It's clearly a hyper computer that has advanced to the point where it exhibits such characteristics as malice, sadism and possibly hate. Explain to me the function (and indeed purpose) of having the T-1000 look bemused when it sees the mannequin (why the facial expression? Where is the function?) Why would it display a look of surprise/shock when it's been frozen and can't move? Why would it display the same look of incredulity when blown up by a grenade? Why the "tsk tsk" finger wagging? Why bother wasting time, convincing Sarah Connor to call out for John. When it can easily despatch her (eliminate a potential threat) and masquerade as Sarah Connor? I perfectly understand the Terminators needing to have some basic human psychology in order to aid infiltration. However featuring the T-1000 looking shocked when its frozen and almost limbless or seeing a mannequin and giving a bemused look serves no function. These are the distinguishing features which separate it from simply being some robotic and emotionless construct. It implies some thing more and highly advanced. Furthermore, if Skynet imbued its creations with its own 'essence' (much like Sauron poured his malice into the ring in Lord of the Rings). Examples; the T-800 with a neural net processor (a learning computer which is switched to read-only) and a T-1000 which has no such restriction and naturally displays a more aware state. Then this clearly shows that they are not following mere programming. Look at what happened to the T-800 when its read-only switch was off. It started to learn, it started to understand/appreciate the human condition. This is remarkable, it is monumental. You must be able to see this surely? quote: Kyle Reese is spotted by the frizzbee bot (whatever its called), another T-600 in the holding plant in Skynet, and 2 Harvesters....and I'm sure those mototerminators saw Reese also. No the original point by the other poster remarked that "many" Terminators had physically grabbed Kyle Reese and John Connor. Therefore at least one should have been killed, rather than thrown around like rag dolls. Yet I only recall John Connor being physically handled by a T-600, a Hydrobot and finally the T-800. In regards to Kyle Reese, there was the mechanical arm at the processing facility. Yet Skynet wanted Kyle Reese alive in order to ensare John Connor (whether or not this makes sense to you it is part of the story). quote: But the thing people forget with Blade Runner is that the film is built from the go to have ambigiuous connatations, there is ground work in the film that make you draw conclusions. No you misunderstand. I used the example of Blade Runner and in particular what Ridley Scott said about the film. To illustrate my point that one should not allow the intentions/interpretations of a film maker to influence/colour one's own perspective on a film. If I were to apply this rationale to Terminator Salvation. I would infer my own conclusions, irrespective of what the writers intended/explained. Based on the various implications which arise in a story as a result of the events shown, actions performed, dialogue spoken etc. quote: There is nothing like that in Terminator Salvation. The whole point of the film is for Marcus to lead Kyle Reese and John Conner to Skynet......and do what? Its not explained. So all we get to go on is the fact Skynet want the two dead (as they do in the previous films) being their are Terminators trying to kill both of them in the film. Maybe I'm being snobbish but the director of Charlies Angels and the writers of Catwoman arent going to leave the "unanswered questions" up to its audience to figure out in a 200million dollar summer blockbuster. To torment, torture, cripple, hound and break John Connor's will to fight and resist. Skynet did not want Kyle Reese dead, this is evident at the end of the film. It only needed him to lure John Connor into a trap, so that it could confront him directly. After that Kyle Reese is not important to Skynet as he would have no further part to play in its plan. Remember Skynet enacted a plan to destroy the entire Resistance. It wiped out the hierarchy by locating the mobile headquarters of the Resistance (as a result of allowing the Resistance to acquire the faux-signal - this reminds me of Return of the Jedi). In addition, as a final death knell to the Resistance, it hoped it could confront John Connor, torture and torment him before breaking his will (since he is the galvanising force behind the Resistance). quote: Thats true. But the Terminators in Salvation are all not as advanced as the T-800. So the Terminators, you could say, would be just set up specific perameters (protect Skynet blah blah blah). But the T-800 in Salvation is programmed to get John Conner - he locks on in his infa-red mode on John Conner as "Target" and doesnt dispatch Marcus easily, mainly throwing him about to get to Conner. Yes but given the proximity of the belligerents to Skynet (from which one could assume it is able to take direct control of any machine); where it has gone to great lengths to attract its prime target to its location. It will not want to instantly kill its quarry (otherwise why bother with the ruse) quote: Also the T-1000 and the T-X wouldnt have thouse chips Arnie has. And Salvation also sets up a Cyborg more advanced than all the above models even when they just have made the T-800. Its all over the shop when you think of it like that. Well the T-1000 is unique in this regards. My guess is that it doesn't have a brain or system core but that each nanites in its body act as a brain. Perhaps each nanite is equal to a 'brain cell'? The T-X would have a CPU but it would far more advanced than the one found in a T-800/T-850. Nonetheless, if a T-800 (in read-write mode; i.e. learning cap was removed) was able to learn at such a rate that it almost began to feel (indeed understanding why John Connor cried). Then imagine what the T-1000 and T-X could do? Look at the T-X final reactions in Terminator 3. Rage and then absolute fear. Both the T-X and T-1000 were prototypes and therefore would not have the read-only restrictions as the T-800s/T-850s.

dh_19 -> RE: Four stars? For this? (7/6/2009 10:08:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King Explain to me the function (and indeed purpose) of having the T-1000 look bemused when it sees the mannequin (why the facial expression? Where is the function?) Why would it display a look of surprise/shock when it's been frozen and can't move? Why would it display the same look of incredulity when blown up by a grenade? Why the "tsk tsk" finger wagging? Why bother wasting time, convincing Sarah Connor to call out for John. When it can easily despatch her (eliminate a potential threat) and masquerade as Sarah Connor? I think the T-1000's need for basic human responses covers most of these. As for the expressions it gives when it's being destroyed, well, it was being destroyed and was broken. When it's dying at the end of T2 and begins morphing into previous forms, i don't think it's doing it intentionally to provide them with one last head fuck, it simply isn't functioning correctly. Plus, even if you're correct, these would be very subtle developments and are nothing like the sheer arrogance that renders Skynet utterly incompetent in Salvation, 11 years earlier (technology wise). This makes me wonder whether you always thought the Terminators are emotive or whether the poor ending of Salvation (which you agree is a flawed film) has made you reassess T1 & T2 to give the concluding act more significance? I personally don't believe that the machines are emotive as this would mean they could potentially express compassion, which i don't think is in keeping with James Cameron's vision.

Celluloid Seduction -> RE: Devin from CHUD reviews for Empire?? (7/6/2009 10:21:33 AM)
Spoiler: Really enjoyed Terminator Salvation but was left feeling like I wanted more....something missing from it! Here's an excerpt from my review at www.celluloidseduction.blogspot.com ...."Is this film worth seeing? Yes. Probably more so if you are not familiar with the franchise, or just like motorbikes and 'HALO'. There is a lot to enjoy in T4. For the most part it is visually stunning, with likeable soundtrack, sharp editing, and nice running-time. However the question remains, is this movie T4 or just another rehashed sci-fi trip? … John Connor shouts gruffly at the new Terminator...'What are you?' Marcus shouts back… 'I don't know!' ... My thoughts exactly." [sm=icon_smile_pistols.gif][sm=icon_smile_pistols.gif][sm=icon_smile_pistols.gif][sm=icon_smile_pistols.gif] out of [sm=icon_smile_pistols.gif][sm=icon_smile_pistols.gif][sm=icon_smile_pistols.gif][sm=icon_smile_pistols.gif][sm=icon_smile_pistols.gif] (edited for italics)

CORLEONE -> RE: Better as a game (7/6/2009 12:09:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hatebox quote: ORIGINAL: princess pushy Also, future world, no civilisation for years, but bright white teeth? Yes, i commented on this to my friend. It seems no matter how far Hollywood is goes in creating a hellish past/future, it just can't bring itself to mess up its actors' teeth. WARNING! POSSIBLE OVER-ANALYSIS!

hatebox -> RE: Actually quite rubbish. (minor "plot" spoilers) (7/6/2009 12:51:56 PM)
What's the general consensus on there being a sequel then? There's no question it's underperformed in the States, so seeing how it fares internationally will be telling. The Terminator brand is has a lot of appeal overseas. I suppose, if nothing else, TS did pique my interest enough to want to know what happens next. But they should get a better director in if it goes ahead.

CORLEONE -> RE: Actually quite rubbish. (minor "plot" spoilers) (7/6/2009 12:55:50 PM)
I really hope it makes enough to warrant another. I want to see John Connor lead humanity to victory and end the story I love.

Funkyrae -> RE: Actually quite rubbish. (minor "plot" spoilers) (7/6/2009 2:20:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CORLEONE quote: ORIGINAL: tysmuse We've been duped again! This film is terrible. It's boring, repetitive and isn't any fun. It's a war film. Did you laugh out loud while watching Saving Private Ryan? No, but neither did I glory in the gritty reality of Terminator Salvation. War film it might be, but that doesn't mean you can gloss over the continuity errors, the glaring contradictions (I've never seen a machine with organs before, really John? So what was that schematic you were looking at on the computer screen in the prison compound?). Some of the effects were incredible, the bikes in particular should be given a stand out thumbs up, but where was the paranoia and fear that was so credible in the first two? The machines didn't really give off much of a threat. What should have been made more of was the experimentation aspect of Skynet, that would have made for quite an unsettling film. Instead it was glossed over for the sake of getting a 12a certificate. Absolute pants.

Squidward Hark Bugle -> RE: Actually quite rubbish. (minor "plot" spoilers) (7/6/2009 2:42:48 PM)
Crap film. Other than some of the same characters and other names from the previous films, it may as well have been a Transformers film. Christian Bale still can't act, the dialogue is entirely devoid of imagination and boring. and the plot makes no sense and/or has been lifted from whichever other sci-fi blockbuster. The action scenes aren't that impressive, and rely on those ugly "sci-fi" sound effects, the kinds where everything is muted so you can hear the latest mechanical drone the sound guys have come up with. Wasn't thrilling, wasn't exciting, wasn't emotional. Worst of all, it had none of the philosophical dilemmas that made the first two films such amazing food for thought, quite a feat for action films to pull off. This film has neither that nor setpieces that won't put you to sleep. Two stars. One is extra for having action scenes where you could actually see what was happening, even if it's not interesting. Maybe the action scenes where you can't see what's happening in other films is to disguise lack of imagination in staging the action itself? Whatever, take THAT Bay and Nolan. [image]http://empireonline.com/images/stars/large_2.gif[/image]

Pigeon Army -> RE: Actually quite rubbish. (minor "plot" spoilers) (7/6/2009 2:51:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Squidward Hark Bugle Christian Bale still can't act, I'll find out how accurate the rest of your review is on Tuesday, but what? Have you not seen American Psycho, at least?

Olaf -> RE: Actually quite rubbish. (minor "plot" spoilers) (7/6/2009 2:54:49 PM)
He is pretty poor in everything except AP and The Prestige. Then you have to go all all the way back to Empire Of The Sun for a good performance.

sanchia -> RE: Actually quite rubbish. (minor "plot" spoilers) (7/6/2009 3:04:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Olaf He is pretty poor in everything except AP and The Prestige. Then you have to go all all the way back to Empire Of The Sun for a good performance. I must admit he isn't providing a great body of work with quality acting. I would agree that the films mentioned above are the only quality performances whilst the rest are a bit meh in the manner he provides a pretty generic characterisation and performance.

Funkyrae -> RE: Actually quite rubbish. (minor "plot" spoilers) (7/6/2009 3:18:10 PM)
I dunno about that. I think he's pretty good actually. Yeah he's taken some real clunkers but you have to give him props for The Machinist.

hatebox -> RE: Actually quite rubbish. (minor "plot" spoilers) (7/6/2009 4:06:53 PM)
Good (at the very least) Bale performances: Empire of the Sun Harsh Times Batman Begins American Psycho Laurel Canyon Rescue Dawn The Prestige I'd agree he seems to be getting stuck in a rut at the moment though. He really should do another black comedy.

dhowdy -> looking forward to a decent war movie.. (7/6/2009 4:07:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CORLEONE quote: ORIGINAL: tysmuse We've been duped again! This film is terrible. It's boring, repetitive and isn't any fun. It's a war film. Did you laugh out loud while watching Saving Private Ryan? I didn't laugh during SPR but boy did you feel for those boys as soon as they stepped out into the fray....that opening onslaught was truly overwhelming and you felt, as an audience, like there was nowhere to hide... now...was that what it was like in in Salvation? I hope so, cos i'm gonna see it this week...

TORC -> RE: Terminator Salvation (7/6/2009 5:47:24 PM)
McG should be shot. Have read and still got every Empire mag since issue No2 -you guys are going to get some serious flak over your 4 Star rating, Terminator has finally become self aware of being shit! So sad.

sanchia -> RE: Terminator Borenation (7/6/2009 6:58:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir I really hope there is an extended director's cut of this film because I'm sure there's a better version out there. And I'm not just saying that because I wanna see Moon's boobies. [:D] I have been informed by a reliable source that they are quite spectacular [:)]

Rgirvan44 -> RE: Terminator Borenation (7/6/2009 6:59:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir I really hope there is an extended director's cut of this film because I'm sure there's a better version out there. And I'm not just saying that because I wanna see Moon's boobies. [:D] I don't think there was a love scene. There is a moment after Marcus and Blair meet when she is looking at her injury and Marcus goes off - I am pretty sure that is where that scene would be from as she is getting changed. The very next scene she is wearing something else - very odd cut. There should be an extended cut at some point - if I understand correctly the whole sequence with Skynet was suppose to be different. And its pretty obvious that there is a different ending out there - so rushed. In retrospect the "leaked" ending may have actully been pretty cool.

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