RE: not bad, until the last 30 mins... (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Film Forums] >> Film Reviews



Message


waltham1979 -> RE: not bad, until the last 30 mins... (5/6/2009 1:57:26 PM)

Hey Emyr; remember ages ago you and me argued for pages and pages about The Dark Knight and I completely lost?! Its actually nice to see you argue with someone else from the outside for once!! [:D]

Two Bob Kelso thumbs up - loving your posts son!! [:D] 




Emyr Thy King -> RE: not bad, until the last 30 mins... (5/6/2009 2:10:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: waltham1979

Hey Emyr; remember ages ago you and me argued for pages and pages about The Dark Knight and I completely lost?! Its actually nice to see you argue with someone else from the outside for once!! [:D]

Two Bob Kelso thumbs up - loving your posts son!! [:D] 


Hello Waltham,

I wouldn't say you lost, I can't even remember the details of our spat! I remember my feud with Pablohoolio in the very same The Dark Knight thread. Only because I haven't seen him since (I tried private messaging him to settle things). You're only four years older than me, how about 'brother' [;)].




dh_19 -> RE: Terminator Salvation (5/6/2009 2:29:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

You missed my earlier point about Skynet's arrogance and it displaying hubris.
 

I didn't miss it, i just thought it was nonsense. I'm not saying you're definately wrong about Skynet's supposed 'arrogance', i simply think that you're interpreting illogical holes in the story as something intentionally done to mull over. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

...did not take into account Marcus Wright's humanity (or what was left of it).


Did they take any of it? I didn't get this part of the film at all. His humanity seemed completely intact but Skynet thought he was going to fall in line now he has a metal eksoskeleton?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

...a medical doctor/surgeon would have 'operated' on or worked with numerous patients. It has been 14 years since Judgement Day, do you not think that during the time that has elapsed, she would have been trained?


I imagined doctors were in short supply and whilst i'm not doubting there are doctors that survived, i'd have thought their priority would be emergency medicine. Plus, not all doctors are surgeons so it'd take a huge investment of time and experience. Thus, when Marcus offers his heart, i expected her to shit herself but instead got a nonchalant indication that he's out of the woods. "Not another heart transplant."

Clearly i'm no expert though so again, i could be way off.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Do general practicioners only stick their fingers up some one's rectum?


Mine does everytime i see him. My troublesome knee is still playing up though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

If you want to be fussy, why did the T-800 in The Terminator back hand Kyle Reese numerous times?


Because they'd cleverly disarmed it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Why didn't it simply snap his neck when he could have done?


I can't remember The Terminator too vividly but i don't recall Kyle going one on one with Arnie (weaponless) until the end where he died.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Why did the T-1000 beat the T-800 numerous times with a pole (hardly efficient on a hardened metal chassis)? Why did it insist on judo throwing the T-800 or crushing it with an iron press when all it had to do was cleave the T-800 with a pole (when the T-800 was on its back).


It wasn't arrogantly goading the T-800, it was trying to immobilise a machine that could potentially kill it. When it didn't work, he was impaled.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Nice try with the condescension kid, better luck next time sweet cheeks.


Not quite to your standard. I must work on belittling people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

When you initially see the T-800 Model 101, it does look fake and plastic


Finally something we can agree on. But to be fair, i do agree that the shot from distance looked much better.

P.S. i meant 'west coast medical schools' earlier. Thanks for not being a complete pedant.




st3veebee -> RE: Devin from CHUD reviews for Empire?? (5/6/2009 4:06:58 PM)

By the Way:



Kermode absolutely slayed the film........very entertaining




Emyr Thy King -> RE: Terminator Salvation (5/6/2009 4:28:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dh_19
I didn't miss it, i just thought it was nonsense. I'm not saying you're definately wrong about Skynet's supposed 'arrogance', i simply think that you're interpreting illogical holes in the story as something intentionally done to mull over.


Hang on..i just thought it was nonsense. I'm not saying you're definately wrong...the wording doesn't make sense and those two sentences border on being an oxymoron. The points I made (ones in which you have a seemingly increasing difficulty in acknowledging and accepting validity) is that the screenwriters have given us some thing over which to mull. Whether or not the logic holds, we need to accept the events depicted in the film. In which Skynet plotted to lure John Connor into a trap, by using some one of dear importance to him (I maintain that Skynet did not know Kyle Reese's relation to John Connor, otherwise it would have terminated him). Then when it has John Connor in its grasp, it chooses not to kill him immediately but to make him experience all manner of pain. This to me indicates Skynet has become self-aware to the point where it indulges in the same cruelty that blights man's darker character. This is an interesting development and worthy of consideration as this shows that Skynet has a 'character' of sorts and it is clearly more complex and intricate than what was first thought about it. It also brings up the question of whether it is any better than mankind?

quote:

Did they take any of it? I didn't get this part of the film at all. His humanity seemed completely intact but Skynet thought he was going to fall in line now he has a metal eksoskeleton?


In a physical sense, they robbed him of his humanity bar his brain and heart. Although clearly the film's message is that humanity is determined by one's actions, conduct and 'spirit'. I think this aspect of his character had a function in the story (whether intended by the writers or not). Because it re-affirms the concept that not all machines are mere constructs for the purposes of extermination. I feel, his character (and indeed John Connor's T-800 and T-850 protectors) keep John Connor's resolve in reprogramming terminators (which is necessary for him to survive) and as a big catalyst for his future actions to use 'friendly' terminators. Skynet installed some sort of transponder/controlling chip at the back of Marcus Wright's cranium as he tore it out and crushed it in his hand, in front of Skynet's Dr. Serena Kogan.

quote:

I imagined doctors were in short supply and whilst i'm not doubting there are doctors that survived, i'd have thought their priority would be emergency medicine. Plus, not all doctors are surgeons so it'd take a huge investment of time and experience. Thus, when Marcus offers his heart, i expected her to shit herself but instead got a nonchalant indication that he's out of the woods. "Not another heart transplant."


Again I reiterate Terminator Salvation takes place 14 years after the events of Terminator 3. Typically a doctor's training would take seven years with perhaps another year or two to become a surgeon. I'm not an expert on how long the training for each profession would take. Judgement Day happened exactly on July 24, 2004. Some time before  6:18pm (EMP from nuclear blasts would surely scramble radio signals) John Connor was in Crystal Peak (the hardened facility in the Sierra Nevada mountains - reserved for military/government VIPs). Where he started to communicate with scattered remnants of the military and various government bodies. Thus forming the bare essence of the Resistance. Now, for argument's sake, let's say the Resistance (as its shown in Terminator Salvation) is an organised movement from 2008. Where Kate Connor underwent training to become a medic (with rudimentary surgical training), even after a seven year period the year would be 2015 (three years before Terminator Salvation). She's already had experience working with anatomy (not human but there would be various similarities - symians for example). Therefore, the transistion from being a veterinarian to a physician(*) would not be so much of a jump for her (given that she has some experience in medical practice). I would certainly say she is a combat medic and therefore would require to perform some surgery in the field, given the range of battlefield injuries and the severity of certain injuries (abdomen wounds or severed artery for example).  



quote:

Mine does everytime i see him. My troublesome knee is still playing up though.


Then your prognosis isn't very good. Perhaps the pain/pleasure resulting from such anal examination has left you with a severely impaired mental capacity. I do strongly believe that a job as an upholstery cleaner would be ideal for you.

quote:

Because they'd cleverly disarmed it.


The point to which you replied was in reply to what you said here :-

the T-800 only came close to killing John when it armed itself with a metal pole. Before that it just confusedly slung him around trying to kill him via... what? Trying to bang his head and give him a blood clot?

Indeed my point was what was the difference between that fight and the one at the end of The Terminator. Where the T-800 backhands Kyle Reese (allowing itself to be struck by a metal pole), rather than 'efficiently' breaking his neck. Indeed, look at the what the T-800 did to the boyfriend of Sarah Connor's flatmate. He threw him around before killing him outright. Therefore Terminator Salvation is simply following a format that was established in The Terminator.

quote:

I can't remember The Terminator too vividly but i don't recall Kyle going one on one with Arnie (weaponless) until the end where he died.


Yes at the Cyberdyne Systems factory, it would only need a few seconds to grab him and break his neck (instead it wastes time delivering back hand smacks).

quote:

It wasn't arrogantly goading the T-800, it was trying to immobilise a machine that could potentially kill it. When it didn't work, he was impaled.


The T-800 at this point was weakened (it had a limp from jumping off a moving lorry), it was missing one arm (from having it crushed by a giant cog wheel). So already its threat was reduced. Moreover, the T-1000 had bested the T-800 in every hand to hand encounter. When the T-1000 first started hitting the T-800 in the face (rather than hitting it straight to the floor), the T-800 is knocked backwards and lands on its back. Where the T-1000 continues to beat it on the chest (a hardened metal chassis). At this juncture, the T-800 is effectively compromised and the T-1000 should have 'lanced' it. Rather than trying to smash it with a huge iron girder as if it was a play thing. A point of interest; look at how the T-1000 allows the T-800 to crawl to the M79 grenade launcher and reach for it before being skewered. One could interpret this as the T-1000 being sadistic. It was afterall an advanced prototype. Before you 'quaff' at what I've said, read this extract from Wikipedia :-

Though the T-1000 is a formidable killer, it often attempts to accomplish its goals by deception instead of brute force. For example, in Terminator 2, it disguises itself as a police officer to gain trust, access information, and provide a benign appearance. It also imitates family members of its human target to gain that person's confidence. The T-1000 and T-1001 possess a vastly greater repertoire of emotional expression and interpersonal skills than the earlier models and are able to flawlessly pass as regular humans whenever necessary. They are also more deliberately devious in their behavior and exhibit a well-developed sense of irony, sardonic humor and wanton cruelty. These traits are indicative of a greater sense of self-awareness within these artificial beings which makes them not only more human-like but simply more human than their predecessors, albeit in decidedly diabolical ways. Examples of the T-1000's emotional expression include the following; it looks shocked when its arm breaks off due to being frozen with liquid nitrogen, wags its finger in a "tsk-tsk" gesture at Sarah after she fails to destroy it in the steel mill, exhibits a shocked expression after being significantly disrupted by a grenade, spares a brief moment of bemusement after seeing a clothing store mannequin that resembles its liquid metal form, and shows genuine agony when it is freezing and when it is dropped into the molten steel.

Link (click).

Terminator Wiki - 17th paragraph

Frustrated and visibly annoyed by the T-800's constant interference, the T-1000 ruthlessly struck the machine repeatedly with the pipe and smashed its head several times with heavy machinery. As the T-800 attempted to crawl towards its M-79, the T-1000 drove the pipe into its spine and twisted it around before driving it deeper, destroying the machine's power core.


Link Two (click).

This makes two startling implications. The first, is that the T-1000 inherited it traits from Skynet itself. Or that Skynet created a being more advanced than itself and more human like.

quote:

Not quite to your standard. I must work on belittling people.


I personally think you need to work on much more than that son.

quote:

P.S. i meant 'west coast medical schools' earlier. Thanks for not being a complete pedant.


Well I thought you needed a leg up (since your knees aren't in a good condition).


* The wikipedia entry for Kate Connor lists her as being a physician (click). The dictionary entry (calm down) for physician states; 1 a person legally qualified to practise medicine, esp. other than surgery; doctor of medicine. However in this case I feel it is semantics. We know she's a medic, who administers medical aid in addition to performing certain duties, which is enough.




Vitamin F -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 4:52:58 PM)

 
Not a patch on T1 (still the daddy) or T2, but as a stand alone film I thought this was a decent, watchable actioner.
As folk have said, there are plot-holes throughout and it's a bit lacking in the character development side of things, but as long as you don't over-analyse it too much (well, at all actually!) there are worse ways to spend 2 hours.
A better paced director's cut dvd would be welcome, I found it quite rushed in parts.




Mr Terrific -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 5:57:34 PM)

I think some reviews of this film have been overly harsh. It is a pretty average action movie with some good set pieces. Other than that it is quite forgettable.

I found the story of Marcus much more compelling than the story of John Conner and that is mainly where the film fails. John Connor is simply not interesting in this movie, his story is not that interesting and his character is quite bland.

The actions of Skynet and the Arnie Terminator are puzzling in this film. When Kyle Reese is captured and brought to Skynet central why is he not Terminated immediately? Why does the Arnie Terminator simply kill John Conner with a single blow to the head or snap his neck?

In all an average film and maybe an end to a franchise.





Emyr Thy King -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 6:12:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Terrific

I think some reviews of this film have been overly harsh. It is a pretty average action movie with some good set pieces. Other than that it is quite forgettable.

I found the story of Marcus much more compelling than the story of John Conner and that is mainly where the film fails. John Connor is simply not interesting in this movie, his story is not that interesting and his character is quite bland.


I wouldn't describe the character of John Connor in such a harsh way (I do not mean this to be a criticism) but I agree that the writers could have made his character more interesting. I certainly feel that they should have made him more sympathetic and added a level of pathos (given the burden he carries).

Whilst many have criticised Christian Bale's depiction of John Connor as one who only likes to shout, (a fair critique) I felt this worked. Because Christian Bale usually is rather stolid and speaks quietly. I liked it when he shouted "John Connor!" and "if we stay the course, we are dead, we are all dead!!" because it gave Christian Bale a raw vocal power that he has not exhibited since American Psycho and Equilibrium.

quote:

The actions of Skynet and the Arnie Terminator are puzzling in this film. When Kyle Reese is captured and brought to Skynet central why is he not Terminated immediately?


We must infer that Skynet did not know the nature of Kyle Reese's connection to John Connor. It only knows that Kyle Reese is a very important figure to John Connor.

quote:

Why does the Arnie Terminator simply kill John Conner with a single blow to the head or snap his neck?


Although this question should equally apply to the events of The Terminator and Terminator 2? The T-800 in 1984 chose to backhand Kyle Reese rather than immediately immobilising him. This error allowed Sarah Connor to destroy it. In the same manner that the T-1000 in 1995 did not kill the T-800 immediately. Instead choosing to needlessly smash it before piercing its chassis with the iron bar/pole. One explanation may be that after the T-1000 reformed its mass, after being frozen then thawed. It introduced some glitches to the T-1000, such as the ripple that ran down its body. In addition to its mass melding with whatever object it touched. However, look at the first encounter between the T-1000 and the T-800. They had a tussle and the T-1000 simply threw the T-800 around the place.




Frank Castle -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 6:21:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Terrific

I think some reviews of this film have been overly harsh. It is a pretty average action movie with some good set pieces. Other than that it is quite forgettable.

I found the story of Marcus much more compelling than the story of John Conner and that is mainly where the film fails. John Connor is simply not interesting in this movie, his story is not that interesting and his character is quite bland.

The actions of Skynet and the Arnie Terminator are puzzling in this film. When Kyle Reese is captured and brought to Skynet central why is he not Terminated immediately? Why does the Arnie Terminator simply kill John Conner with a single blow to the head or snap his neck?

In all an average film and maybe an end to a franchise.




there my real problem with this film (other then the unexplained plot hole) this should have been a john conner film. marcus should not exist!!! Just seemed like a pointless character that existed only to get a good guy terminator on board.




rubadub -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 6:25:06 PM)

I was always under the impression from the flashforwards of the original films that the resistance was a scratty,low tech organisation,not a global network of submarines and aircraft. And didn't John Connor begin the resistance,not just work his way up through the ranks? This might be the problem with the film for me,an indelible impression has been formed in my mind of L.A 2029 with piles upon piles of human skulls in permanent darkness,not a sun bleached Mad Max style wasteland. Armies of Terminators and Hunter Killers with massive guns roaming the rubble blowing anything with a heartbeat away,not Transformer style behemoths with motorbike Terminators in their legs ( ? ) .I wasn't gripped at all,not a single set piece was memorable,Christian Bale did nothing,and as has been said before,why didn't Skynet just kill Kyle Reese when they caught him if they knew who he was? And if John Connor didn't start the resistance anyway,why would it matter?
On the plus side,the Marcus Wright idea was a new and interesting addition to the timeline and Sam Worthington seems an actor to look out for. Anton Yelchin gave a good performance too,and the Arnie cameo was cleverly executed,but seemed gimmicky. More could have been done with the idea ( a whole production line of Arnies maybe ?)
Underwhelmed by the end,the audience appeared more enlivened by the Transformers trailer.
2/5




Emyr Thy King -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 6:49:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank Castle
there my real problem with this film (other then the unexplained plot hole)


The "plot hole" to which you refer is how Skynet knows about Kyle Reese and why Skynet lured John Connor to the San Francisco building complex?

The one explanation that fits for me. is that recorded video footage from Kyle Reese's interview in police detention (not to mention written notes) must have been downloaded by Skynet before it initiated the nuclear holocaust. In addition to the Sarah Connor interviews in Pescadero State Hospital. These recordings and notes may have been transferred to digital format, which Skynet could have accessed. Remember, when the police detectives visited Sarah Connor at Pescadero State Hospital. They presented to her, photos from the close-circuit camera footage from the attack on the police station by the T-800 in 1984. Which would imply they kept some record of the incident.

A second explanation is the T-X may have uploaded the information to Skynet at some point.

quote:

this should have been a john conner film. marcus should not exist!!! Just seemed like a pointless character that existed only to get a good guy terminator on board.


I think his character had a purpose in reaffirming what the T-800 and T-850 did in the previous films. He sacrificed himself, the most noble deed one could perform. The other purpose is to cement the notion that terminators could be used against Skynet. Without his example, other may not support John Connor's proposed scheme to use terminators against Skynet.




Emyr Thy King -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 7:03:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rubadub

I was always under the impression from the flashforwards of the original films that the resistance was a scratty,low tech organisation,not a global network of submarines and aircraft. And didn't John Connor begin the resistance,not just work his way up through the ranks? This might be the problem with the film for me,an indelible impression has been formed in my mind of L.A 2029 with piles upon piles of human skulls in permanent darkness,not a sun bleached Mad Max style wasteland. Armies of Terminators and Hunter Killers with massive guns roaming the rubble blowing anything with a heartbeat away


You need to bear in mind that Terminator Salvation depicts the war in 2018 not 2029. Skynet has not yet designed plasma rifles or other energy based weapons. We are not shwon explicitly that the Resistance of 2018 possesses a large number of submarines, aircraft and other machines of war. Clearly, they would only possess such machines in very small numbers and I imagine by the time of 2029. Mankind will be forced to fight Skynet in a more guerrilla fashion as shown in the first two Terminator films. Furthermore, you must question the Resistance that was shown at the beginning of Terminator 2. A Resistance whose members wore the same uniform, who were equipped with goggles and night vision equipment and even badge insignias. Rather than being a motley crew of men and women who have no uniform and only fight with the weapons they salvage. In addition, the future war of 2029 shown in the first two films centered around Los Angeles. A small section of the war, this is a global war and not one which is only fought in the Los Angeles area.

quote:

why didn't Skynet just kill Kyle Reese when they caught him if they knew who he was?


That's key. Skynet did not know who Kyle Reese was exactly (other than being a figure of importance to John Connor).

quote:

And if John Connor didn't start the resistance anyway,why would it matter?


Because he was a galvanising figure. He even had such influence that he persuaded numerous combat elements to disobey a direct order from a superior figure. Indeed the supreme commander of the Resistance. Not to forget that had Skynet acquired/recovered information on John Connor (through accounts left by Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor) then it would realise how important a figure John Connor is in the future.




Olaf -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 7:14:50 PM)

You seem very passionate about this movie Emyr.




Emyr Thy King -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 7:18:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

You seem very passionate about this movie Emyr.


Not so much passionate about the film Olaf but deeply interested in the universe of the Terminator. It's a fascinating and terrifying premise. Whether we like it or not Terminator Salvation is part of the Terminator canon. I will not defend some thing so much unless I can apply what I feel is logic.




dh_19 -> RE: Terminator Salvation (5/6/2009 7:23:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Hang on..i just thought it was nonsense. I'm not saying you're definately wrong...the wording doesn't make sense and those two sentences border on being an oxymoron.


You're right, that is poor wording, i'll rephrase. I'm 99% sure (still not saying you're definately wrong) that what you put about Skynet being arrogant is utter bollocks. I'm 1% unsure simply because of the 'talent' involved in Salvation. If it is a direction they're pursuing then i don't think it's in accordance with the cold and efficient tone Cameron set for the machines.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

I maintain that Skynet did not know Kyle Reese's relation to John Connor, otherwise it would have terminated him


Not if Skynet was arrogantly toying with him. The cocky bastard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

The transistion from being a veterinarian to a physician(*) would not be so much of a jump for her (given that she has some experience in medical practice). I would certainly say she is a combat medic and therefore would require to perform some surgery in the field, given the range of battlefield injuries and the severity of certain injuries (abdomen wounds or severed artery for example).  


The only thing i'm questioning is how many patients requiring a heart transplant could she have encountered? But as you say, neither of us are experts so yeah, i can let this go. I only brought it up for a joke but i'm glad you expanded on it. Plus, had the operation been performed by the end of the film? May be he was being flown to a surgeon, who knows? It was a shit end regardless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Perhaps the pain/pleasure resulting from such anal examination has left you with a severely impaired mental capacity.


Is this what you think happens? Is this a slight against gay people? Homophobe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Indeed my point was what was the difference between that fight and the one at the end of The Terminator. Where the T-800 backhands Kyle Reese (allowing itself to be struck by a metal pole), rather than 'efficiently' breaking his neck.


It couldn't break his neck because it was being beaten with a metal pole. Once it disarms Kyle by knocking him down, it goes in for the kill (but gets blown up instead). It didn't get a grip on him like CG Arnie did in Salvation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

look at the what the T-800 did to the boyfriend of Sarah Connor's flatmate. He threw him around before killing him outright.


He tried to punch him through the head, killing him in one swoop. He couldn't use his gun otherwise his real target would get away.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

The T-800 at this point was weakened (it had a limp from jumping off a moving lorry), it was missing one arm (from having it crushed by a giant cog wheel). So already its threat was reduced. Moreover, the T-1000 had bested the T-800 in every hand to hand encounter. When the T-1000 first started hitting the T-800 in the face (rather than hitting it straight to the floor), the T-800 is knocked backwards and lands on its back. Where the T-1000 continues to beat it on the chest (a hardened metal chassis). At this juncture, the T-800 is effectively compromised and the T-1000 should have 'lanced' it. Rather than trying to smash it with a huge iron girder as if it was a play thing.


I'm gonna have to take your word on all of this (which i don't like doing since i disagree with practically everything you've written) because i haven't seen T2 in years. You do seem to make it sound as if the T-1000 is fighting a human though. We've seen how resilient the T-800 is. It perseveres even with one limb. The T-1000 was simply being thorough.

I certainly can't argue with the wikipedia entries.

All this is getting away from my original point anyway. Why would Skynet invest so much time in this elaborate plan to kill John Connor, but then send only one unarmed Terminator up against him (and his grenade launcher). Also, even if you do believe the T-1000 took pleasure in killing Arnie, it did so with him beaten and in sight. It didn't sling him around a room and then lose him so he could go and have a chat (like Salvation). It was a terribley written finale.




sanchia -> RE: Terminator Salvation (5/6/2009 7:44:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dh_19


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

The transistion from being a veterinarian to a physician(*) would not be so much of a jump for her (given that she has some experience in medical practice). I would certainly say she is a combat medic and therefore would require to perform some surgery in the field, given the range of battlefield injuries and the severity of certain injuries (abdomen wounds or severed artery for example).  


The only thing i'm questioning is how many patients requiring a heart transplant could she have encountered? But as you say, neither of us are experts so yeah, i can let this go. I only brought it up for a joke but i'm glad you expanded on it. Plus, had the operation been performed by the end of the film? May be he was being flown to a surgeon, who knows? It was a shit end regardless.



Potential SPOILER


I haven't seen the film but heard of this bit from an incredulous friend who thought this was an incredibly stupid aspect. If he required a heart transplant they would firstly need to tissue type him. If it got past the gigantic odds that he was compatible then the transplant would need to take place which is a very complex procedure requiring a complete bypass of the circulatory system utilising a machine to oxegenate the blood. From that point on the recipient of the heart would need to stay on immunosuppresent drugs to avoid rejecting the organ.


You don't just go. Oh, dodgy ticker eh? Have mine I don't need it.




Olaf -> RE: Terminator Salvation (5/6/2009 7:47:58 PM)

One question: was Connor's heart getting damaged an important part of the plot or just the writers going "Wouldn't that be cool?" etc.?




paul_ie86 -> RE: Terminator Salvation (5/6/2009 8:35:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia


quote:

ORIGINAL: dh_19


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

The transistion from being a veterinarian to a physician(*) would not be so much of a jump for her (given that she has some experience in medical practice). I would certainly say she is a combat medic and therefore would require to perform some surgery in the field, given the range of battlefield injuries and the severity of certain injuries (abdomen wounds or severed artery for example).  


The only thing i'm questioning is how many patients requiring a heart transplant could she have encountered? But as you say, neither of us are experts so yeah, i can let this go. I only brought it up for a joke but i'm glad you expanded on it. Plus, had the operation been performed by the end of the film? May be he was being flown to a surgeon, who knows? It was a shit end regardless.



Potential SPOILER


I haven't seen the film but heard of this bit from an incredulous friend who thought this was an incredibly stupid aspect. If he required a heart transplant they would firstly need to tissue type him. If it got past the gigantic odds that he was compatible then the transplant would need to take place which is a very complex procedure requiring a complete bypass of the circulatory system utilising a machine to oxegenate the blood. From that point on the recipient of the heart would need to stay on immunosuppresent drugs to avoid rejecting the organ.


You don't just go. Oh, dodgy ticker eh? Have mine I don't need it.


Yeah, the heart transplant bit really annoyed me




Frank Castle -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 10:06:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank Castle
there my real problem with this film (other then the unexplained plot hole)


The "plot hole" to which you refer is how Skynet knows about Kyle Reese and why Skynet lured John Connor to the San Francisco building complex?

The one explanation that fits for me. is that recorded video footage from Kyle Reese's interview in police detention (not to mention written notes) must have been downloaded by Skynet before it initiated the nuclear holocaust. In addition to the Sarah Connor interviews in Pescadero State Hospital. These recordings and notes may have been transferred to digital format, which Skynet could have accessed. Remember, when the police detectives visited Sarah Connor at Pescadero State Hospital. They presented to her, photos from the close-circuit camera footage from the attack on the police station by the T-800 in 1984. Which would imply they kept some record of the incident.

A second explanation is the T-X may have uploaded the information to Skynet at some point.

quote:

this should have been a john conner film. marcus should not exist!!! Just seemed like a pointless character that existed only to get a good guy terminator on board.


I think his character had a purpose in reaffirming what the T-800 and T-850 did in the previous films. He sacrificed himself, the most noble deed one could perform. The other purpose is to cement the notion that terminators could be used against Skynet. Without his example, other may not support John Connor's proposed scheme to use terminators against Skynet.



the plot hole being why not just kill reese. if they no he's his dad then are skynet dumb and dont realise kill reese u kill conner. If they dont why is he no.1! on the hit list above conner the so called saviour of mankind.

if they've seen all the past footage from recordings they would know that he is sent back to protect sarah at some point in the future. kill him no protector no conner.

Marcus wasnt needed at all in the movie, its just retreading old ground with another good guy terminator. I wanted to see a john conner movie.
I thought i heard he had signed on for 3 movies, they can always steal a heart from a just dead soldier and plug him in again so not much of a sacrifice.




kenada_woo -> RE: Devin from CHUD reviews for Empire?? (5/6/2009 10:23:22 PM)

Well.....I thought it was just a bit of non-starter filled with characters that were bland and dull.  Action that was fine without being overly spectacular.  A plot that didnt have any urgency or surprises which ended up being the same old thing that the previous 3 films were about - kill John Conner.

Bale did fine with the thin work he had.  I mean, the franchise was basically built on the John and Sarah Conner characters..so why didnt I give two fucks about him in the film?  Marcus Wright?  Who?  Dont care about you either...a completely bland addition to the franchise.  Kate Brewster aka Brace Dallas Howard just looks pretty while pregnent.  Common is just there as the ADR guy to fill in the holes (off camera plot points ahoy from his character).  Oh and Moon Bloodgood...erm, just dissappears from the film later on.

The action was big and boombastic but lacking any build up, just resorting to blow stuff up bigger than the last time something blew up.  When the film began to imitate and become a Terminator film (a good motorbike chase and final 20minutes are all Terminator-esque) the action engages.  Rest of the runtime just feels like filler for one character to get from point a-to-b.

Only thing worthy of note...Anton Yelchin aka Kyle Reese.  He seemed to be the only character where you can see and feel a backstory.  Maybe its because we try to link him to Micheal Biehn's character, but even then it adds to how we build and see traits that become the character later on.  With someone like Conner in the film, you get nods and winks to that character in the previous films..the rest of him you could've just had some random dude called Colin running about to do the same job.

Say what you want about T3. Atleast it had a goal, a good and bad guy, ran for 90minutes, and was action packed throughout that continued from its previous film (good or bad) in terms of characters - it was fun.  Terminator Salvation just felt flat and took itself too serious with characters shouting at each other down walkie talkies. And they expect another 2 films out of it?  Good luck.

**/*****[:D]




Emyr Thy King -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 11:35:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank Castle
the plot hole being why not just kill reese. if they no he's his dad then are skynet dumb and dont realise kill reese u kill conner. If they dont why is he no.1! on the hit list above conner the so called saviour of mankind.


The sequence of events would lead me to infer that Kyle Reese was merely bait. Skynet did not know Kyle Reese was John Connor's father or he would have been terminated. The only way Skynet could have known that Kyle Reese was very important to John Connor was through obtaining information from the past. Either through an upload by the T-X or discovering the medical records and/or interviews of Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese. In what state these records would have been stored is an important factor. There is a caveat as shown by this piece of dialogue in Terminator 2 :-

Dr. Peter Silberman : "This next patient is interesting. I've been following the case for years. A 29-year old female, diagnosed as acute schizo-affective disorder. The usual indicators - depression, anxiety, violent acting-out, delusions of persecution....The delusional architecture is fairly unique. She believes that a machine called a 'Terminator,' which looks human of course, was sent back through time to kill her. And also that the father of her child was a soldier, sent back to protect her - he was from the future too - the year, uh, 2029, if I remember correctly."

Wiki Quote (click)

quote:

if they've seen all the past footage from recordings they would know that he is sent back to protect sarah at some point in the future. kill him no protector no conner.


Yes, unless Skynet is solely fixed on John Connor. Kill John Connor and forget about Kyle Reese. There would be no John Connor to send Kyle Reese back in time. For all Skynet knows, Kyle Reese may only be John Connor's top soldier. In such a case John Connor could easily find a replacement (if Kyle Reese was not his biological father). The irony (or plothole - whichever you believe) is that it had a prime opportunity to kill Kyle Reese and it didn't.

quote:

Marcus wasnt needed at all in the movie, its just retreading old ground with another good guy terminator. I wanted to see a john conner movie.
I thought i heard he had signed on for 3 movies, they can always steal a heart from a just dead soldier and plug him in again so not much of a sacrifice.


There are many things that are not needed in a film but I didn't find his character a nuisance nor a detracting factor from the film. Marcus Wright's offering of his heart would not work unless he sacrificed his own life. This would not be the sort of medical operation to peform unless absolutely necessary (John Connor is absolutely necessary for the survival of mankind). Besides I imagine too much time would have elapsed for them to find a new heart for Marcus Wright. He saw this act as a form of absolution and repentance.

Some may find the following link amusing :-

Wiki Parody




Jasper -> RE: Four stars? For this? (5/6/2009 11:45:34 PM)

As a Christian Bale movie, this was disappointing after the almost endless string of great performances in the past decade. As a Terminator movie it should bow its head in shame. As an action movie it makes Matrix Revolutions look like fantastic entertainment. Whichever way you look at it, this was a major disappointment.

Four stars?   

Quick, change the review before it's printed in the magazine!!




kenada_woo -> RE: Four stars? For this? (5/6/2009 11:47:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Yet what's highly amusing and peculiar is you will not/cannot expand on why you think my reasonably stated comments are "bollocks" as you eloquently put it (perhaps the heat from the steal mill is getting to you?). However let's expand on my scrotum wrapped assertion. On a theological discussion, if we were to look at what the Christian Bible says of man (I am not a religious person but merely using the Bible to illustrate a point), that man was created in the image of God. Then we were to look at man's latest attempt at creating life, artificial intelligence and look at the type of designs we have created. You would note that we have created humanoid creations, i.e. the ASIMO robot. Now if we were to apply the same logic to Skynet. Where as Skynet created machines in its image, including Skynet's characteristics. Then the natural conclusion of this line of thought is that the T-1000 (its most advanced creation bar the T-X) is almost a mirror image of its creator. Furthermore, the T-1000 does show itself to be a cold, calculated, ruthless and a methodical creation. Yet, these are not its only defining features. Let me reproduce the compelling points made in the Wikipedia articles :-

Though the T-1000 is a formidable killer, it often attempts to accomplish its goals by deception instead of brute force. For example, in Terminator 2, it disguises itself as a police officer to gain trust, access information, and provide a benign appearance. It also imitates family members of its human target to gain that person's confidence.

The T-1000 and T-1001 possess a vastly greater repertoire of emotional expression and interpersonal skills than the earlier models and are able to flawlessly pass as regular humans whenever necessary.

They are also more deliberately devious in their behavior and exhibit a well-developed sense of irony, sardonic humor and wanton cruelty. These traits are indicative of a greater sense of self-awareness within these artificial beings which makes them not only more human-like but simply more human than their predecessors, albeit in decidedly diabolical ways.


Examples of the T-1000's emotional expression include the following; it looks shocked when its arm breaks off due to being frozen with liquid nitrogen, wags its finger in a "tsk-tsk" gesture at Sarah after she fails to destroy it in the steel mill, exhibits a shocked expression after being significantly disrupted by a grenade, spares a brief moment of bemusement after seeing a clothing store mannequin that resembles its liquid metal form, and shows genuine agony when it is freezing and when it is dropped into the molten steel.

Terminator Wiki

Like its successor, the T-X, the T-1000 appears to possess a limited emotional range (aside from that necessary for infiltration). He exhibits a shocked expression just before he is destroyed in the factory, and wags a finger in a "tsk-tsk" gesture at one of his attackers after an unsuccessful attempt at destroying him, and he also performs a double-take when he spots a clothing store mannequin that resembles his liquid metal form. He also displays frustration when the T-800 thwarts his interrogation of Sarah Connor, prompting him to ruthlessly beat the T-800 before impaling him. The T-1000 is more fearsome and much stronger than its predecessor.

The T-1000 makes an error; mistaking the dog's name. John (actually the T-800 impersonating him) hangs up and the T-1000 terminates Todd and also terminates Max out of annoyance.

quote:

I'm 1% unsure simply because of the 'talent' involved in Salvation. If it is a direction they're pursuing then i don't think it's in accordance with the cold and efficient tone Cameron set for the machines.


If we were to only judge The Terminator then your point would be valid. However, look at Terminator 2, look at how the T-1000 behaves in certain situations and reacts to various 'stimuli'. If the T-800 started to understand the human condition (by its read-only mode being disabled by John and Sarah Connor). In addition to saying "I now know why you cry but it's some thing I can never do" (where it gently places its finger on John's cheek). This would at least indicate that it potentially could act like humans. The reason why the T-800s never rebelled against Skynet is because it 'capped' their ability to become self-aware by permanently enabling read-only mode. Now look at the T-800 and T-1000, think of their creator, Skynet. This was all setup by James Cameron in the second film and personally I find it fascinating. If Terminator Salvation explores this side of Skynet, then it clearly took its inspiration from James Cameron's Terminator 2.

Whether the writers of Terminator Salvation explicitly intended for Skynet to be so highly developed is irrelevent. Because the implication is clear. Whether or not the writers intended for such a development/revelation does not hide the matter that it is evident for one to see. Now I do agree that the script writers were the weakest element of the fourth film. However, despite their failings they did introduce some interesting ideas to Terminator 3. Skynet existing on the internet, no system core, the introduction of Kate Brewster and the T-X. Which convinces me that perhaps the writers are not incapable but some how unwilling to write a script treatment that would pass as acceptable. Perhaps their strong points lie in introducing new and clever ideas but lack the ability to write decent characterisation and dialogue?

quote:

Not if Skynet was arrogantly toying with him. The cocky bastard.


Hubris

quote:

The only thing i'm questioning is how many patients requiring a heart transplant could she have encountered? But as you say, neither of us are experts so yeah, i can let this go. I only brought it up for a joke but i'm glad you expanded on it. Plus, had the operation been performed by the end of the film? May be he was being flown to a surgeon, who knows? It was a shit end regardless.


Yes she is a combat medic and the typical procedures for her would be extraction of shrapnel and repair of wounds. Although that is not to say she hasn't had experience. As I said earlier, she may have an aptitude for surgery and some how picked it up quicker than would be expected. Given that a 14 year period has elapsed since the third film, I do not have such a problem with her surgery skills and neither should you.

quote:

Is this what you think happens? Is this a slight against gay people? Homophobe.


I liked how you seem to unknowingly thrive on the rule of 'neglible/diminishing returns'. Your attempts at using insults are becoming more dire and this latest one made me feel sorry for you. You seem increasingly incapable to engage in any critical disucssion. Perhaps those knees are becoming wobbly? It's all right, I won't drop you, yet.

However, it's amusing that you came to the conclusion that I was implying homoeroticism. When in fact the implication of what I said was that the unfortunate doctor was A) incompetent and botched your anal inspection which some how led to mental malfunctioning or B) he must have found some sort of switch, pressed it and this led to a series of unfortunate events for you. Although I do believe you're a frustrated upholstery cleaner merely looking for work. In fact when you said "gay people" I thought you meant "happy people" (as for me "gay" does not only mean homosexual).

Furthermore, whatever my views on homosexuality has no bearing on the subject at hand. Even if I were a homophobe (which I emphatically am not) it would be none of your business. Even if I were homophobic, what has it got to do with the Terminator franchise? If you derive titillation from seeing naked 'male' terminators then fine (seeing as though I may have witnessed a Freudian slip on your behalf).

quote:

It couldn't break his neck because it was being beaten with a metal pole. Once it disarms Kyle by knocking him down, it goes in for the kill (but gets blown up instead). It didn't get a grip on him like CG Arnie did in Salvation


"Couldn't" is far too strong a term. It simply allowed Kyle Reese to hit him with a metal pole (I believe twice) before delivering a back hand and "going for the kill" as you termed it. Surely the efficient way of dealing with Kyle would have been to grab his arm (hence stop the swinging) and merely break Kyle Reese's neck with one easy grip. It underestimated Kyle Reese by engaging in a knuckle fest rather than finishing the job. This error allowed it to be terminated not long after its 'affray'. A catastrophic error.

quote:

He tried to punch him through the head, killing him in one swoop. He couldn't use his gun otherwise his real target would get away.


Whether or not his punch connected. Why did the T-800 throw the poor boyfriend against the wall? I'm sure it did this more than once. You say it wouldn't use its gun in case it would prematurely have alerted Sarah Connor (and/or her flatmate). Yet you deem it fine that it threw the man around (which you have not refuted), an action which it did more than once. Therefore creating plenty of bumps and bangs which would certainly have alerted any person nearby. All it needed to do was subdue the man, place a pillow to his head and pull the trigger. Or better still create a silencer (it's machine design and neural net processor would provide a proficiency that would make this task rather simple)

You may like to know that The Terminator will in fact be showing on BBC One at 11.40pm tonight.

quote:

I'm gonna have to take your word on all of this (which i don't like doing since i disagree with practically everything you've written) because i haven't seen T2 in years. You do seem to make it sound as if the T-1000 is fighting a human though. We've seen how resilient the T-800 is. It perseveres even with one limb. The T-1000 was simply being thorough.


It doesn't make any difference to me whether you choose to believe what I say or not. I have seen Terminator 2 numerous times and the last time I saw it was either Wednesday/Thursday when it was shown on Channel 5. I am perfectly happy with my recollection. How did I give the impression that the T-1000 was combatting a human being? When you get a chance watch the film again. the T-800 limps (after jumping off a speeding lorry and rolling until it smacks into things). This would affect its mobility and possibly adroitness. It then looses its arm. Whether it is a T-800 or human, any one or thing that looses an arm is instantly disadvantaged. I'm not questioning how resilient the T-800 is in its endeavours. I merely questioned the T-1000's method of 'disposal'.

I'm not going to do a frame by frame recount of the choreography. Although I'll try my best to recollect the fight. The T-800 approaches the T-1000 from behind (I'm sure with your aptitude for going on unrelated tangents you'll say some thing) and slices through it with an iron bar. The T-1000 then kicks away the T-800 and pulls out the iron bar from its side. It then repeatedly hits the T-800 in the face and eventually knocks it back. The T-800 lands on its back. This alone would have provided ample opportunity for the T-1000 to finish off the T-800 with a good thrust through the chassis. Then it knocks the T-800 onto a lower platform (I think) and repeatedly smashes it with a very large and thick iron girder. The T-800 collapses to the ground and crawls to its M79. The T-1000 allows the T-800 to crawl within reaching distance of its weapon. Before thrusting the iron bar into the T-800 chassis, twisting it around its frame. Then the T-1000 finally plunges the iron bar through 'heart' of the T-800 and destroying or disabling its power core. I do not see what is methodical nor thorough about it. Sure it gave the T-800 a 'thorough beating' but it did not terminate the T-800 in a clinical fashion.

quote:

I certainly can't argue with the wikipedia entries.


You can but I wouldn't advise it.

quote:

All this is getting away from my original point anyway. Why would Skynet invest so much time in this elaborate plan to kill John Connor, but then send only one unarmed Terminator up against him (and his grenade launcher). Also, even if you do believe the T-1000 took pleasure in killing Arnie, it did so with him beaten and in sight. It didn't sling him around a room and then lose him so he could go and have a chat (like Salvation). It was a terribley written finale


Think of it, if Skynet indeed wanted to trap John Connor in its own lair (a controlled environment) for the purposes of sadistically killing him (why else would it formulate a complicated ruse). If it wanted to immediately dispose of him  it would have made sure he was killed without fuss. This would indicate that Skynet's self-awareness is more evolved than originally anticipated (whether you believe the writers intended for it to be or not, it is part of the story nonetheless). The grenade launcher when used on the T-800 was not sufficient to even disable it. Moreover, if you look at the modus operandi in play here. Skynet concocts an elaborate artifice in order to ensare its target, before callously attempting to beat him, torment him and finally discard him. If you believe that enacting such a plan yet only using one terminator is not a sign of arrogance (follow the sequence of events and not your opinion of the writers' talent) then keep banging your head against a brick wall.

You also neglected to mention the first fight in Terminator 2 between the T-1000 and the T-800. The T-1000 threw the T-800 against the walls, before throwing it through a wall and then through a shop window. During this scuffle it had almost lost sight of John Connor. A person with whom he only caught up when he acquired a vehicle. In fact I would say the end fight in Terminator Salvation took its cues from the first two films, in terms of choreography and pacing.


Over elborate excuses but well done all the same.

Leads me to my question......

The Terminators never got hold of their prime targets in all of the previous terminator films.  Everyone else who gets in their way either get machine gunned, stabbed, thrown etc for said Terminator to get to its main target - Sarah Conner or John Conner. 

Many terminators get hold of 2 main targets - Reese and Conner - and proceed to throw them about.  Especially having Reese locked up for countless hours, singled out, and then left alone.

Skynet didnt need both Reese and Conner in the same place.  They just needed Marcus to lead the two people to Skynet.  Why they were not killed or kept alive is not given explination.  Plot hole.

The excuse of "they were toying with them like the previous films etc" doesnt make sense when Terminators "cant be bargined with.  Cant be reasoned with.  And they absolutely will not stop, ever, till you are dead".

But anyway, its McG's new vision of the film so the previous films dont mean shit.

Oh, and as for the medical hearttransplant thing...was Kate Brewster a vet?  Heart surgery for a vet even if it is 10 yers later or so is a little stretch but I didnt mind.




CORLEONE -> RE: RE: (5/6/2009 11:48:54 PM)

Bewildered at all the negativity.

Can't be assed nitpicking, so I'll just say this:

BEST. QUADRILOGY. EVER.




Emyr Thy King -> RE: Four stars? For this? (6/6/2009 12:39:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kenada_woo
Over elborate excuses but well done all the same.


I view them as possible justifications or reasons. Although, I accept that other will not agree and I welcome it! Providing no vitriol is involved.


quote:

The Terminators never got hold of their prime targets in all of the previous terminator films.  Everyone else who gets in their way either get machine gunned, stabbed, thrown etc for said Terminator to get to its main target - Sarah Conner or John Conner.


Although the terminators in the previous film (bar two) were strictly sent to assassinate their targets, nothing more. Furthermore why would the T-800 ask the punks for one of them to give it their clothing when it could easily kill them all and take whatever clothing it desired. Unless of course it used this opportunity to further its understanding of human interaction and responses (sampling idioms and so forth). On a further point, the T-1000 chose to pierce Sarah Connor's shoulder rather than kill her immediately. It didn't need her to "call for John" when it could do that all on its own.  

quote:

Many terminators get hold of 2 main targets - Reese and Conner - and proceed to throw them about.  Especially having Reese locked up for countless hours, singled out, and then left alone.


Many? There's the T-600 at the beginning which was cut in half and John Connor promptly finished it off. There were the Hydrobots which John Connor managed to handle (with the exception of one being dealt by Marcus Wright).

quote:

Skynet didnt need both Reese and Conner in the same place.  They just needed Marcus to lead the two people to Skynet.  Why they were not killed or kept alive is not given explination.  Plot hole.


Fine yet this only leaves us with the explanation that Skynet had a specific plan with John Connor. The plan was not elaborated on which either comes down to a lapse on the part of the writers or they remarkably placed a lot of faith in the audience. Which leaves me to do much of the explaining! I like to draw implications from things, regardless of intent by the writer(s)/creator(s). For instance  Ridley Scott says that Rick Deckard from Blade Runner is a Replicant and any one who disagrees with him is "an idiot". Would you draw the same conclusion based on what he said?

quote:

The excuse of "they were toying with them like the previous films etc" doesnt make sense when Terminators "cant be bargined with.  Cant be reasoned with.  And they absolutely will not stop, ever, till you are dead".


It does when you're dealing with Skynet directly and not mere agents of Skynet that are sent out alone with specific mission parameters. Terminator 2 sheds light on the T-800s in a scene where John and Sarah Connor access the T-800's central processing unit and reset the read-only switch. See here :-

Terminator 2 Cutscene

quote:

Oh, and as for the medical hearttransplant thing...was Kate Brewster a vet?  Heart surgery for a vet even if it is 10 yers later or so is a little stretch but I didnt mind.


I think in the light of the Terminator's paradoxes and causal loops I think this detail is a minor one.




Qwerty Norris -> RE: Four stars? For this? (6/6/2009 1:23:48 AM)

Seen it myself this evening and by all means it's not terrible but it's far from great either. McG has a reasonable visual style but it's clear he has no interest in his actors and Salvation suffers from that. Despite this though the actors do a reasonable job, although Worthington definitely struggles with a character that needed and deserved a lot more shades of grey than he was given. Bale's Connor too was a disappointment, not so much in the performance but the fact that he seemed like a side character in the film you would of thought he'd of dominated a lot more.

I'm a personal believer too that over the last few years CGI has reached a saturation point and this film flags that concern of mine. Whilst it's not particularly awful by any means it just doesn't rock the boat in the same way say T2 did with the T-1000. Admittedly this could be because of the higher expectation level we the audience have for CGI fests more than anything else. But whilst something like Transformers makes usage of its wizzes & bangs, alot of this feels like it's been carried out by a Michael Bay imitator who's not even half as skilled as mastering explosions and nonsensical pyrotechnics.

So whilst it is a step up from the laughable T3 in terms of appropriate tone, it still feels like a moderately entertaining but ultimately wasted opportunity.

2/5




Emyr Thy King -> RE: Four stars? For this? (6/6/2009 1:37:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwerty Norris

Seen it myself this evening and by all means it's not terrible but it's far from great either. McG has a reasonable visual style but it's clear he has no interest in his actors and Salvation suffers from that. Despite this though the actors do a reasonable job, although Worthington definitely struggles with a character that needed and deserved a lot more shades of grey than he was given. Bale's Connor too was a disappointment, not so much in the performance but the fact that he seemed like a side character in the film you would of thought he'd of dominated a lot more.


I think the problem with certain performances was highlighted by Christian Bale's tirade agianst the cinematographer, Shane Hurlbut. Joseph "McG" Nicol didn't have the authority on set to command a certain performance and I felt it showed by Christian Bale not listening to McG and being allowed by the latter to say what he wanted in the manner he wanted. Even though the writing credits go to the two guys who wrote the script for Terminator 3, the script was supposedly overhauled by Jonathan Nolan and even by Christian Bale in some parts.

quote:

I'm a personal believer too that over the last few years CGI has reached a saturation point and this film flags that concern of mine. Whilst it's not particularly awful by any means it just doesn't rock the boat in the same way say T2 did with the T-1000. Admittedly this could be because of the higher expectation level we the audience have for CGI fests more than anything else. But whilst something like Transformers makes usage of its wizzes & bangs, alot of this feels like it's been carried out by a Michael Bay imitator who's not even half as skilled as mastering explosions and nonsensical pyrotechnics.


I would have liked to have seen the visceral violence that was prevalent in the first film and less so in the second film. I think the CGI on the T-800 Model 101's face could have been better (except for one shot). I also think they should have used prosthetic effect rather than CGI to render the T-800 and its loss of flesh.




dh_19 -> RE: Four stars? For this? (6/6/2009 1:42:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Yet what's highly amusing and peculiar is you will not/cannot expand on why you think my reasonably stated comments are "bollocks"


Are we even talking about arrogance? I was interested in why Skynet's plan failed. It's possible to be arrogant yet still succeed. What you're talking about is stupidity (i'm sure there'll be a witty comeback here). Essentially, Skynet failed at the most significant thing it ever needed to address through sheer idiocy. Rather than establish Skynet as a terrifying villain for the trilogy, the writers instead decided to throw in a 'cool' fight involving a sole CG Arnie, despite it making no sense in the context of it's importance and where it took place and for the fact that it made the chief villain look stupid, from which i don't know how it'll recover. You argue it was written to provide some ambiguity to Skynet's development, whereas i simply put it down to sacrificing a well written finale for a 60 second money shot.

This is what my inital post was referring to and was all i was interested in. I replied to your other arguments about the Terminators evolving to take some sadistic pleasure in their mission because although i don't necessarily agree with them, you're right in saying that it's an interesting universe James Cameron has created and so naturally, i find your posts a good read.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

If we were to only judge The Terminator then your point would be valid. However, look at Terminator 2...


Obviously T2 is the key but since i haven't seen it in years, i'm sure there are others on these boards who also differ in opinion but can provide a much more insightful argument. However, i interpreted the T-1000's 'humour' as a basic response to a given situation. Like a more advanced series of reactions that we see the T-800 access in T1 ("Fuck you, asshole") so that the T-1000 can infiltrate and believeably pass as a human being. It's not that it enjoys a good laugh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

Perhaps their strong points lie in introducing new and clever ideas but lack the ability to write decent characterisation and dialogue?


Their ideas only seem clever if you interpret things that aren't there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

it's amusing that you came to the conclusion that I was implying homoeroticism.


For fuck's sake man, lighten up. If i thought you had implied any genuine prejudice then i wouldn't reply to you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

You also neglected to mention the first fight in Terminator 2 between the T-1000 and the T-800. The T-1000 threw the T-800 against the walls, before throwing it through a wall and then through a shop window. During this scuffle it had almost lost sight of John Connor.


The T-1000 never lost sight of it's objective. Are you having me on now because you can't believe this point? The T-1000 momentarily loses John Connor because it is attacked. As soon as it puts Arnie through a wall it doesn't arrogantly swagger over to him with a smug look on it's face, it continues with it's pursuit.




Qwerty Norris -> RE: Four stars? For this? (6/6/2009 1:56:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwerty Norris

Seen it myself this evening and by all means it's not terrible but it's far from great either. McG has a reasonable visual style but it's clear he has no interest in his actors and Salvation suffers from that. Despite this though the actors do a reasonable job, although Worthington definitely struggles with a character that needed and deserved a lot more shades of grey than he was given. Bale's Connor too was a disappointment, not so much in the performance but the fact that he seemed like a side character in the film you would of thought he'd of dominated a lot more.


I think the problem with certain performances was highlighted by Christian Bale's tirade agianst the cinematographer, Shane Hurlbut. Joseph "McG" Nicol didn't have the authority on set to command a certain performance and I felt it showed by Christian Bale not listening to McG and being allowed by the latter to say what he wanted in the manner he wanted. Even though the writing credits go to the two guys who wrote the script for Terminator 3, the script was supposedly overhauled by Jonathan Nolan and even by Christian Bale in some parts.

quote:

I'm a personal believer too that over the last few years CGI has reached a saturation point and this film flags that concern of mine. Whilst it's not particularly awful by any means it just doesn't rock the boat in the same way say T2 did with the T-1000. Admittedly this could be because of the higher expectation level we the audience have for CGI fests more than anything else. But whilst something like Transformers makes usage of its wizzes & bangs, alot of this feels like it's been carried out by a Michael Bay imitator who's not even half as skilled as mastering explosions and nonsensical pyrotechnics.


I would have liked to have seen the visceral violence that was prevalent in the first film and less so in the second film. I think the CGI on the T-800 Model 101's face could have been better (except for one shot). I also think they should have used prosthetic effect rather than CGI to render the T-800 and its loss of flesh.




Yeah I agree, although if you compare it to the "direction" Gavin Hood was allowed on Wolverine, McG has a an almost Orsen Welles level of auteurism! [:D] 

And I too agree with the prosthetics over the CGI. To be honest I'm just not a fan of it full stop...I've been a strong cynic ever since Red Dwarf VII! [:D]




adambatman82 -> RE: Four stars? For this? (6/6/2009 2:10:49 AM)

saw the film tonight, and while i wouldnt go as far to say i actually liked it, it wasnt as bad as some of the press would have you believe. ive written a pretty large piece on it on my website, albeit inadvertantly, i set out with the intention of writing only a few brief passages, as i dont think this sort of rubbish is worth the effort of genuine criticism, alas once i started writing i just got into the flow of things and decided to put some effort in and before i knew it i'd done almost a thousand words. anyway, what im basically trying to say is that it provoked a reaction, which i think is always good, in spite of quality.

http://hopelies.com/2009/06/06/terminator-salvation-2009/






Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
0.0625