kenada_woo -> RE: Four stars? For this? (5/6/2009 11:47:26 PM)
ORIGINAL: Emyr Thy King
Yet what's highly amusing and peculiar is you will not/cannot expand on why you think my reasonably stated comments are "bollocks" as you eloquently put it (perhaps the heat from the steal mill is getting to you?). However let's expand on my scrotum wrapped assertion. On a theological discussion, if we were to look at what the Christian Bible says of man (I am not a religious person but merely using the Bible to illustrate a point), that man was created in the image of God. Then we were to look at man's latest attempt at creating life, artificial intelligence and look at the type of designs we have created. You would note that we have created humanoid creations, i.e. the ASIMO robot. Now if we were to apply the same logic to Skynet. Where as Skynet created machines in its image, including Skynet's characteristics. Then the natural conclusion of this line of thought is that the T-1000 (its most advanced creation bar the T-X) is almost a mirror image of its creator. Furthermore, the T-1000 does show itself to be a cold, calculated, ruthless and a methodical creation. Yet, these are not its only defining features. Let me reproduce the compelling points made in the Wikipedia articles :-
Though the T-1000 is a formidable killer, it often attempts to accomplish its goals by deception instead of brute force. For example, in Terminator 2, it disguises itself as a police officer to gain trust, access information, and provide a benign appearance. It also imitates family members of its human target to gain that person's confidence.
The T-1000 and T-1001 possess a vastly greater repertoire of emotional expression and interpersonal skills than the earlier models and are able to flawlessly pass as regular humans whenever necessary.
They are also more deliberately devious in their behavior and exhibit a well-developed sense of irony, sardonic humor and wanton cruelty. These traits are indicative of a greater sense of self-awareness within these artificial beings which makes them not only more human-like but simply more human than their predecessors, albeit in decidedly diabolical ways.
Examples of the T-1000's emotional expression include the following; it looks shocked when its arm breaks off due to being frozen with liquid nitrogen, wags its finger in a "tsk-tsk" gesture at Sarah after she fails to destroy it in the steel mill, exhibits a shocked expression after being significantly disrupted by a grenade, spares a brief moment of bemusement after seeing a clothing store mannequin that resembles its liquid metal form, and shows genuine agony when it is freezing and when it is dropped into the molten steel.
Like its successor, the T-X, the T-1000 appears to possess a limited emotional range (aside from that necessary for infiltration). He exhibits a shocked expression just before he is destroyed in the factory, and wags a finger in a "tsk-tsk" gesture at one of his attackers after an unsuccessful attempt at destroying him, and he also performs a double-take when he spots a clothing store mannequin that resembles his liquid metal form. He also displays frustration when the T-800 thwarts his interrogation of Sarah Connor, prompting him to ruthlessly beat the T-800 before impaling him. The T-1000 is more fearsome and much stronger than its predecessor.
The T-1000 makes an error; mistaking the dog's name. John (actually the T-800 impersonating him) hangs up and the T-1000 terminates Todd and also terminates Max out of annoyance.
I'm 1% unsure simply because of the 'talent' involved in Salvation. If it is a direction they're pursuing then i don't think it's in accordance with the cold and efficient tone Cameron set for the machines.
If we were to only judge The Terminator then your point would be valid. However, look at Terminator 2, look at how the T-1000 behaves in certain situations and reacts to various 'stimuli'. If the T-800 started to understand the human condition (by its read-only mode being disabled by John and Sarah Connor). In addition to saying "I now know why you cry but it's some thing I can never do" (where it gently places its finger on John's cheek). This would at least indicate that it potentially could act like humans. The reason why the T-800s never rebelled against Skynet is because it 'capped' their ability to become self-aware by permanently enabling read-only mode. Now look at the T-800 and T-1000, think of their creator, Skynet. This was all setup by James Cameron in the second film and personally I find it fascinating. If Terminator Salvation explores this side of Skynet, then it clearly took its inspiration from James Cameron's Terminator 2.
Whether the writers of Terminator Salvation explicitly intended for Skynet to be so highly developed is irrelevent. Because the implication is clear. Whether or not the writers intended for such a development/revelation does not hide the matter that it is evident for one to see. Now I do agree that the script writers were the weakest element of the fourth film. However, despite their failings they did introduce some interesting ideas to Terminator 3. Skynet existing on the internet, no system core, the introduction of Kate Brewster and the T-X. Which convinces me that perhaps the writers are not incapable but some how unwilling to write a script treatment that would pass as acceptable. Perhaps their strong points lie in introducing new and clever ideas but lack the ability to write decent characterisation and dialogue?
Not if Skynet was arrogantly toying with him. The cocky bastard.
The only thing i'm questioning is how many patients requiring a heart transplant could she have encountered? But as you say, neither of us are experts so yeah, i can let this go. I only brought it up for a joke but i'm glad you expanded on it. Plus, had the operation been performed by the end of the film? May be he was being flown to a surgeon, who knows? It was a shit end regardless.
Yes she is a combat medic and the typical procedures for her would be extraction of shrapnel and repair of wounds. Although that is not to say she hasn't had experience. As I said earlier, she may have an aptitude for surgery and some how picked it up quicker than would be expected. Given that a 14 year period has elapsed since the third film, I do not have such a problem with her surgery skills and neither should you.
Is this what you think happens? Is this a slight against gay people? Homophobe.
I liked how you seem to unknowingly thrive on the rule of 'neglible/diminishing returns'. Your attempts at using insults are becoming more dire and this latest one made me feel sorry for you. You seem increasingly incapable to engage in any critical disucssion. Perhaps those knees are becoming wobbly? It's all right, I won't drop you, yet.
However, it's amusing that you came to the conclusion that I was implying homoeroticism. When in fact the implication of what I said was that the unfortunate doctor was A) incompetent and botched your anal inspection which some how led to mental malfunctioning or B) he must have found some sort of switch, pressed it and this led to a series of unfortunate events for you. Although I do believe you're a frustrated upholstery cleaner merely looking for work. In fact when you said "gay people" I thought you meant "happy people" (as for me "gay" does not only mean homosexual).
Furthermore, whatever my views on homosexuality has no bearing on the subject at hand. Even if I were a homophobe (which I emphatically am not) it would be none of your business. Even if I were homophobic, what has it got to do with the Terminator franchise? If you derive titillation from seeing naked 'male' terminators then fine (seeing as though I may have witnessed a Freudian slip on your behalf).
It couldn't break his neck because it was being beaten with a metal pole. Once it disarms Kyle by knocking him down, it goes in for the kill (but gets blown up instead). It didn't get a grip on him like CG Arnie did in Salvation
"Couldn't" is far too strong a term. It simply allowed Kyle Reese to hit him with a metal pole (I believe twice) before delivering a back hand and "going for the kill" as you termed it. Surely the efficient way of dealing with Kyle would have been to grab his arm (hence stop the swinging) and merely break Kyle Reese's neck with one easy grip. It underestimated Kyle Reese by engaging in a knuckle fest rather than finishing the job. This error allowed it to be terminated not long after its 'affray'. A catastrophic error.
He tried to punch him through the head, killing him in one swoop. He couldn't use his gun otherwise his real target would get away.
Whether or not his punch connected. Why did the T-800 throw the poor boyfriend against the wall? I'm sure it did this more than once. You say it wouldn't use its gun in case it would prematurely have alerted Sarah Connor (and/or her flatmate). Yet you deem it fine that it threw the man around (which you have not refuted), an action which it did more than once. Therefore creating plenty of bumps and bangs which would certainly have alerted any person nearby. All it needed to do was subdue the man, place a pillow to his head and pull the trigger. Or better still create a silencer (it's machine design and neural net processor would provide a proficiency that would make this task rather simple)
You may like to know that The Terminator will in fact be showing on BBC One at 11.40pm tonight.
I'm gonna have to take your word on all of this (which i don't like doing since i disagree with practically everything you've written) because i haven't seen T2 in years. You do seem to make it sound as if the T-1000 is fighting a human though. We've seen how resilient the T-800 is. It perseveres even with one limb. The T-1000 was simply being thorough.
It doesn't make any difference to me whether you choose to believe what I say or not. I have seen Terminator 2 numerous times and the last time I saw it was either Wednesday/Thursday when it was shown on Channel 5. I am perfectly happy with my recollection. How did I give the impression that the T-1000 was combatting a human being? When you get a chance watch the film again. the T-800 limps (after jumping off a speeding lorry and rolling until it smacks into things). This would affect its mobility and possibly adroitness. It then looses its arm. Whether it is a T-800 or human, any one or thing that looses an arm is instantly disadvantaged. I'm not questioning how resilient the T-800 is in its endeavours. I merely questioned the T-1000's method of 'disposal'.
I'm not going to do a frame by frame recount of the choreography. Although I'll try my best to recollect the fight. The T-800 approaches the T-1000 from behind (I'm sure with your aptitude for going on unrelated tangents you'll say some thing) and slices through it with an iron bar. The T-1000 then kicks away the T-800 and pulls out the iron bar from its side. It then repeatedly hits the T-800 in the face and eventually knocks it back. The T-800 lands on its back. This alone would have provided ample opportunity for the T-1000 to finish off the T-800 with a good thrust through the chassis. Then it knocks the T-800 onto a lower platform (I think) and repeatedly smashes it with a very large and thick iron girder. The T-800 collapses to the ground and crawls to its M79. The T-1000 allows the T-800 to crawl within reaching distance of its weapon. Before thrusting the iron bar into the T-800 chassis, twisting it around its frame. Then the T-1000 finally plunges the iron bar through 'heart' of the T-800 and destroying or disabling its power core. I do not see what is methodical nor thorough about it. Sure it gave the T-800 a 'thorough beating' but it did not terminate the T-800 in a clinical fashion.
I certainly can't argue with the wikipedia entries.
You can but I wouldn't advise it.
All this is getting away from my original point anyway. Why would Skynet invest so much time in this elaborate plan to kill John Connor, but then send only one unarmed Terminator up against him (and his grenade launcher). Also, even if you do believe the T-1000 took pleasure in killing Arnie, it did so with him beaten and in sight. It didn't sling him around a room and then lose him so he could go and have a chat (like Salvation). It was a terribley written finale
Think of it, if Skynet indeed wanted to trap John Connor in its own lair (a controlled environment) for the purposes of sadistically killing him (why else would it formulate a complicated ruse). If it wanted to immediately dispose of him it would have made sure he was killed without fuss. This would indicate that Skynet's self-awareness is more evolved than originally anticipated (whether you believe the writers intended for it to be or not, it is part of the story nonetheless). The grenade launcher when used on the T-800 was not sufficient to even disable it. Moreover, if you look at the modus operandi in play here. Skynet concocts an elaborate artifice in order to ensare its target, before callously attempting to beat him, torment him and finally discard him. If you believe that enacting such a plan yet only using one terminator is not a sign of arrogance (follow the sequence of events and not your opinion of the writers' talent) then keep banging your head against a brick wall.
You also neglected to mention the first fight in Terminator 2 between the T-1000 and the T-800. The T-1000 threw the T-800 against the walls, before throwing it through a wall and then through a shop window. During this scuffle it had almost lost sight of John Connor. A person with whom he only caught up when he acquired a vehicle. In fact I would say the end fight in Terminator Salvation took its cues from the first two films, in terms of choreography and pacing.
Over elborate excuses but well done all the same.
Leads me to my question......
The Terminators never got hold of their prime targets in all of the previous terminator films. Everyone else who gets in their way either get machine gunned, stabbed, thrown etc for said Terminator to get to its main target - Sarah Conner or John Conner.
Many terminators get hold of 2 main targets - Reese and Conner - and proceed to throw them about. Especially having Reese locked up for countless hours, singled out, and then left alone.
Skynet didnt need both Reese and Conner in the same place. They just needed Marcus to lead the two people to Skynet. Why they were not killed or kept alive is not given explination. Plot hole.
The excuse of "they were toying with them like the previous films etc" doesnt make sense when Terminators "cant be bargined with. Cant be reasoned with. And they absolutely will not stop, ever, till you are dead".
But anyway, its McG's new vision of the film so the previous films dont mean shit.
Oh, and as for the medical hearttransplant thing...was Kate Brewster a vet? Heart surgery for a vet even if it is 10 yers later or so is a little stretch but I didnt mind.