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FlangeBags -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 10:44:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan

I'd have though the DVDs were pretty cheap by now. It's downhill after Series 5 mind.



40 quid for the lot
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Red-Dwarf-Anniversary-All-Shows/dp/B0011UFB02/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1239529385&sr=8-6




kingalan -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 11:28:36 AM)

I'm surprised that the ill-judged League Of Gentlemen's Apocalypse direction it took last night hasn't created a much more negative reaction. What a total cop out and a mid-digit to fans. I sincerely hope that this is all some Back To Reality style dream because now the episodes are not only painfully unfunny, but also based on a shockingly bad idea. Watching last nights I almost felt like I was watching a Red Dwarf Comic Relief sketch. It all just feel so wrong.




Dave B -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 11:32:35 AM)

Well I'm glad someone else agrees with me. Last nights episode came across as fan-fic and bad fan-fic at that.




theoriginalcynic -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 11:49:31 AM)

Chris Barrie said in March that this could lead to a new series or a film but after seeing this really? It lost over a milion viewers from episode one to two.  Over two million watched the first episode.  On Monday it's all being shown together so maybe it'll get better ratings then...




Ethanial -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 12:50:24 PM)

I'm sitting through these separately, but I am not gonna try it as a full in one gulp kind of showing, it's painful enough as it is.




jobloffski -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 2:17:57 PM)

I'm going to be very kind to what's been on so far.

The script for the first episode was in the style of Early Dwarf, so directing it like later Dwarf harmed the hamminess that was so much a part of it when the camera didn't move so much. That said, even though to me it seemed like a few retakes could have helped the comic timing, it wasn't really that bad.

Second episode at times, seemed like production once again may have taken place at too high a speed to get the comic timing quite right (the chemistry between the characters was always what made the jokes work, even when they were sometimes not brilliant).

That said, I thought the piss take of 'Deckard zooms in on the photo' was inspired and I for one laughed aloud at 'I only do noses'.

At the very least, when this show homages other sci-fi and other genres it doesn't shy away from it and pretend it's totally original, something the over praised last few years of doctor who does absolutely non fucking stop while giving off a stink of 'look how brilliant we are!!!'

Back To Earth aint Dwarf At it's best. But reducing the cast back to its core does kind of highlight how completely the show got fucked up when the crew of the diminutive crimson one was ressurrected, thereby skewering the sit (the isolation of a few characters is always the core of a great sit com) and the com (the relationship dynamic of a few core characters and their interplay acts as the fuel for the com.

The cast were up for this, and while it's not fully developed enough and probably way too rushed or may have been  lacking in opps for rehearsal, it does at least attempt to right what went wrong with red dwarf, when a decision was made to replace Rimmer's role in the series with Kochanski, from which it never really recovered, and which could have been very, very, very easily sorted by having the hologram emmitter corrupted, recasting the character and making the replacement actor be even more Rimmery a Rimmer than Rimmer, and the same 'wish we had Rimmer back' stuff could have been mined comedically, in much the same way without having to try and second guess fan complaints by having Dave miss him then say later be glad to be rid of him. The relationship dynamic of old would have still been intact and the series wouldn't have had rely on 'pretty face but the acting skills of Keanu Reeves in a coma' Chloe Annett.

I don't speak as a geek here, because my instincts leading to the above points the above are purely those of a writer (anybody who's ever read my previous, (equally presumptious) posts may note my habit of applying these instincts to any and every genre/franchise).

By the way, for some reason I just loved the music that kicked in as the 'Dwarfers were being sucked through the magic door (effectively what EVERY time/dimension/reality conduit amounts to, and if I had anything to do with Red Dwarf, I would have them 'shift' in this way via a Macguffin, a Plot Device, have at some point a solution literally pulled out of someones arse, thereby spoofing the tendency of sci fi to try and get away with any old shit they think the target asudience will swallow and up the spoof content of the stories generally, which is eminently possible without losing the sci fi edge). 

Ok whatever, that's enough of my horseshit. Well, except to say, perhaps a tile card with cheesy fanfare could have announced massive thanks to Dave and who stumped up the cash (presumably Granada, due to the Corrie stuff) and there could have been less referencing of the channel the show was being made by. Then a less self conscious story could have been written, and Dave could have basked in kudos for RESISTING the urge to treat the show as self promotion and gotten a bit of respect for having the balls to do what the BBC have been too stupid, to bloody minded, or too afraid to do. Instead, the script has jokes about Dave, making it unfortunately reminiscent of corporate, in-house TV.

Er, laughed when the kid said 'tell Rimmer he's a smeghead'. So shoot me.

No more horeshit.





Rotary Ten -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 4:20:54 PM)

I love Red Dwarf, but the first two episodes are terrible. I haven't laughed once yet, and the concept unfolding in the plot is absolutely awful. At least series 7 and 8 had elements that were worthwhile amongst the general mediocrity and awfulness. 'Back to Earth' has nothing worthwhile at all, it is embarrassing. If the the cast didn't enjoy working together so much, they'd surely say the same. This must be the worst British comedy ever made, in the sense that it just isn't funny. At least politically incorrect comedies appeal to people with that sensibility. I wasn't expecting much, but it will take miracles to rescue this now. A 'Back to Reality'-esque realisation and Ace Rimmer flying in at the end might save the continuity, but unless those aforementioned miracles take place, Red Dwarf is wrecked now. Tragic. I'll have to watch the third part, but I take no pleasure in doing so.




Oddjob -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 7:57:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kingalan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: kingalan

Shockingly bad that.

The fact that the lack of laughter-track was a noteable negative says it all really. Laughter tracks in their very nature are pretty irritating - in fact they're frowned upon these days - but the comic writing in Red Dwarf (especially last night's episode) just isn't strong enough to stand on it's own. It's always needed that audience response to spur on the viewer. Without it the gentle comedy was alone and exposed.




I disagree entirely, especially after watching one of the classic episodes that was on Dave later. I think it wouldn't make the material better in this case, but it's just jarring when the original series used them and this one didn't, and the actors seem to be performing under the impression that one is going to be added later, contributing to the stilted atmosphere.

Oh, and if anyone was wondering why Holly wasn't in this, apparently Lovett went on some massive rant on his Myspace slagging off the cast and crew....


It wouldn't make the material "better", nothing could have managed that. A laughter track is supposed to create the atmosphere of mass enjoyment and is an attempt to enhance the effect of the jokes. The same way a comedy film at the cinema always seems funnier than three months later when you watch it on DVD. I've always been a fan of Red Dwarf but have always felt that the actual comedy writing is saved by the characters and innovation of the storylines. I think even a classic episode of Red Dwarf would feel sterile and garner fewer chuckles from the viewer without the laughter track. With last nights being particularly poor, it was the worst time to suddenly go trendy and lose the laughter.

As for Lovett's rant.... this I gotta' see....





Well here you go then...

quote:



So far there have been 3 reasons in the press why there is no Holly in these programmes that are being shown over Easter on the Dave channel. 1 No budget 2 Didn't want the crew dragging a computer around with them on earth 3 A water leak caused a short circuit and caused the computer to break down.

This gives you an idea of what the people who make Red Dwarf (GrantNaylor) are like and you will be able to read all about them and the cast in my auto biography which I am working on as I speak. I watched Chris, Robert and Danny on BBC Breakfast News this morning. Talk about laughs take a holiday.

I will be watching the shows but I really don't see how it will be any good because it's not shot in front of a studio audience and they're not trapped on board Red Dwarf which was it's main strength when it was character comedy.
Everything is done by one man (Naylor) and he can't do everything well. Bring back Grant and get a good director (Bye) and it might have stood a chance. And Holly with some good gags of course.

Not one of the cast have got in touch with me which just shows how self centred they are. I'm not bitter just unhappy about the way I have been treated by them. By the way GrantNaylor you still owe me money for the Red Dwarf movie rehearsals.

Happy Easter everyone, Norman





Scruffybobby -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 9:36:00 PM)

SPOILERS

So the whole thing was basically a flashier but far less funny or effective retread of Back to Reality.

A real letdown.




paul_ie86 -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 9:37:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rotary Ten

I love Red Dwarf, but the first two episodes are terrible. I haven't laughed once yet, and the concept unfolding in the plot is absolutely awful. At least series 7 and 8 had elements that were worthwhile amongst the general mediocrity and awfulness. 'Back to Earth' has nothing worthwhile at all, it is embarrassing. If the the cast didn't enjoy working together so much, they'd surely say the same. This must be the worst British comedy ever made, in the sense that it just isn't funny. At least politically incorrect comedies appeal to people with that sensibility. I wasn't expecting much, but it will take miracles to rescue this now. A 'Back to Reality'-esque realisation and Ace Rimmer flying in at the end might save the continuity, but unless those aforementioned miracles take place, Red Dwarf is wrecked now. Tragic. I'll have to watch the third part, but I take no pleasure in doing so.


Prophetic[:D]




Mr E -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 10:05:28 PM)

It was OK in the end. Episodes two and three were pretty funny. It would have been better as one long special rather than splitting it into three parts. They went a little overboard with the Blade Runner references though.




theoriginalcynic -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 10:24:49 PM)

Episode three was the best episode but it still wasn't great.  If there's a new series following this please get both writers,  holly and the director back as Norman said. 




HughesRoss -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (12/4/2009 11:48:49 PM)

Well that was a load of SHITE...........





Ethanial -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 2:27:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HughesRoss

Well that was a load of SHITE...........




Second.




Monkeyshaver -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 12:08:59 PM)

So, after the long wait what do we get? A longer, less funny remake of Back To Reality!!! What a load of smeg!! R.I.P. Red Dwarf.
Oh, & what actually was the point of having that female hologram? I thought she would return as part of an interesting plot twist but her character was pointless, Kryten could have devised the dimension jumping thing.




Johnny Pneumonia -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 2:18:47 PM)

Crikey, it was clear once series 7 got under way that Rob Grant was in charge of quality control, but jeez louise. The Blade Runner thing was agonizing. Everyone involved should be thoroughly embarrassed. Still, it was nice having all the classics shown over the weekend.




kingalan -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 2:58:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: paul_ie86


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rotary Ten

I love Red Dwarf, but the first two episodes are terrible. I haven't laughed once yet, and the concept unfolding in the plot is absolutely awful. At least series 7 and 8 had elements that were worthwhile amongst the general mediocrity and awfulness. 'Back to Earth' has nothing worthwhile at all, it is embarrassing. If the the cast didn't enjoy working together so much, they'd surely say the same. This must be the worst British comedy ever made, in the sense that it just isn't funny. At least politically incorrect comedies appeal to people with that sensibility. I wasn't expecting much, but it will take miracles to rescue this now. A 'Back to Reality'-esque realisation and Ace Rimmer flying in at the end might save the continuity, but unless those aforementioned miracles take place, Red Dwarf is wrecked now. Tragic. I'll have to watch the third part, but I take no pleasure in doing so.


Prophetic[:D]


Ahem... I think you'll find I was the first to predict a BTR outcome (or at least hope for one)...[8|][;)]

Anyway, the episodes themselves... DOGSHITE. I'm too disillusioned to even state why anymore. Naylor, do us all a favour either go and kiss Rob Grants plums and beg him to re-join or just bow out gracefully and spend the DVD commentary simply apologising.




kingalan -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 3:00:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oddjob

quote:

ORIGINAL: kingalan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: kingalan

Shockingly bad that.

The fact that the lack of laughter-track was a noteable negative says it all really. Laughter tracks in their very nature are pretty irritating - in fact they're frowned upon these days - but the comic writing in Red Dwarf (especially last night's episode) just isn't strong enough to stand on it's own. It's always needed that audience response to spur on the viewer. Without it the gentle comedy was alone and exposed.




I disagree entirely, especially after watching one of the classic episodes that was on Dave later. I think it wouldn't make the material better in this case, but it's just jarring when the original series used them and this one didn't, and the actors seem to be performing under the impression that one is going to be added later, contributing to the stilted atmosphere.

Oh, and if anyone was wondering why Holly wasn't in this, apparently Lovett went on some massive rant on his Myspace slagging off the cast and crew....


It wouldn't make the material "better", nothing could have managed that. A laughter track is supposed to create the atmosphere of mass enjoyment and is an attempt to enhance the effect of the jokes. The same way a comedy film at the cinema always seems funnier than three months later when you watch it on DVD. I've always been a fan of Red Dwarf but have always felt that the actual comedy writing is saved by the characters and innovation of the storylines. I think even a classic episode of Red Dwarf would feel sterile and garner fewer chuckles from the viewer without the laughter track. With last nights being particularly poor, it was the worst time to suddenly go trendy and lose the laughter.

As for Lovett's rant.... this I gotta' see....





Well here you go then...

quote:



So far there have been 3 reasons in the press why there is no Holly in these programmes that are being shown over Easter on the Dave channel. 1 No budget 2 Didn't want the crew dragging a computer around with them on earth 3 A water leak caused a short circuit and caused the computer to break down.

This gives you an idea of what the people who make Red Dwarf (GrantNaylor) are like and you will be able to read all about them and the cast in my auto biography which I am working on as I speak. I watched Chris, Robert and Danny on BBC Breakfast News this morning. Talk about laughs take a holiday.

I will be watching the shows but I really don't see how it will be any good because it's not shot in front of a studio audience and they're not trapped on board Red Dwarf which was it's main strength when it was character comedy.
Everything is done by one man (Naylor) and he can't do everything well. Bring back Grant and get a good director (Bye) and it might have stood a chance. And Holly with some good gags of course.

Not one of the cast have got in touch with me which just shows how self centred they are. I'm not bitter just unhappy about the way I have been treated by them. By the way GrantNaylor you still owe me money for the Red Dwarf movie rehearsals.

Happy Easter everyone, Norman




Oh and cheers for that.[sm=happy34.gif] Couldn't seem to find it anywhere when I Googled. Lovett does come across as a little bitter but you can't blame him really. Frankly, after watching the episodes he should be eternally grateful to Naylor for not taking him down with them.




Harry Tuttle -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 3:17:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan

I'd have though the DVDs were pretty cheap by now. It's downhill after Series 5 mind.



Hmm I dunno. Series 6 has got some cracking episodes IMO, I'd say it's as good a series as series 3(but not series 4 and 5) if truth be told. Series 7 episode 3 is when the rot started to set in for me, which coincides with the introduction of Kochanski. It's not even Chloe Annette's "acting" that ruins it for me, it's the effect her character has on Kryten that makes me want to punch things.

I've only seen 2 episodes of series 8. I've got it on DVD and it's still got the cellophane wrapping on. As far as I'm concerned Red Dwarf ended after Stoke Me A Clipper so I certainly won't be making any effort to catch these specials (although my sister will probably buy me the DVD for chrimbo despite my protestations, much like she did with series 8 [&:]).




kingalan -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 3:32:10 PM)

I'd say Red Dwarf pretty much ended after Series 6 (which I agree, is great). Tikka To Ride is not only horribly pretentious and unfunny, but completely illogical. They've been trying to get to earth for years and we're meant to believe they've had the ability to just jump there during different time periods and have opted not to?? The weak cause and effect argument is insulting. Lister's willing to go there for a curry and then return to his lonely, doomed and desolate existence...? That's like being held prisoner, managing to wriggle out of your handcuffs to scratch your arse, and then re-shackling yourself.... ludicrous.




Dirty Hartigan -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 4:33:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan

I'd have though the DVDs were pretty cheap by now. It's downhill after Series 5 mind.



Hmm I dunno. Series 6 has got some cracking episodes IMO, I'd say it's as good a series as series 3(but not series 4 and 5) if truth be told. Series 7 episode 3 is when the rot started to set in for me, which coincides with the introduction of Kochanski. It's not even Chloe Annette's "acting" that ruins it for me, it's the effect her character has on Kryten that makes me want to punch things.




Admittedly, Series 6 is a more gentle decline in quality than what comes later, and it has improved for me over time, but certainly when it was out, Legion and the final episode were the only ones that were wholly up to the previous standard. It's definitely not on a par with any series that has the brilliant Marooned in it, that's for sure.




KnightofZyryab -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 4:42:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan

I'd have though the DVDs were pretty cheap by now. It's downhill after Series 5 mind.



Hmm I dunno. Series 6 has got some cracking episodes IMO, I'd say it's as good a series as series 3(but not series 4 and 5) if truth be told. Series 7 episode 3 is when the rot started to set in for me, which coincides with the introduction of Kochanski. It's not even Chloe Annette's "acting" that ruins it for me, it's the effect her character has on Kryten that makes me want to punch things.




Admittedly, Series 6 is a more gentle decline in quality than what comes later, and it has improved for me over time, but certainly when it was out, Legion and the final episode were the only ones that were wholly up to the previous standard. It's definitely not on a par with any series that has the brilliant Marooned in it, that's for sure.


How can you forget Gunmen of the Apocalypse ? An absolute classic ! The decline didn't start until season 7, after such a great start with Tikka to Ride and Stoke Me a Clipper. I watched Marooned last night, such a fantastic episode and definitely in my top 5, the writing and comic timing between Chris Barrie and Craig Charles is perfect.




Rotary Ten -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 7:09:34 PM)

Series 6 is still classic 'Dwarf. I can't say it is as good as 4 or 5, but at least the equal of 3. Series 7 is where the writing lost the plot. Everyone goes out of character, particularly Kryten who becomes irritating. After the first 2 episodes, it was simply awful. Series 8 is a pathetic attempt to win fans back by making references to old episodes, and fails as it deserved to. I still haven't worked out where the other Lister and Kochanski got to, even though logically, they should be there, and even though the new Rimmer shouldn't remember past adventures, somehow he does. But 'Back to Earth' goes down the road of having no jokes whatsoever and becomes the worst episode of anything. Ever.




Dirty Hartigan -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 7:55:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofZyryab

How can you forget Gunmen of the Apocalypse ? An absolute classic ! The decline didn't start until season 7, after such a great start with Tikka to Ride and Stoke Me a Clipper. I watched Marooned last night, such a fantastic episode and definitely in my top 5, the writing and comic timing between Chris Barrie and Craig Charles is perfect.


I didn't forget it, it's not a classic IMO. Enjoyable, certainly.




elab49 -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 7:57:17 PM)

Overall, I got the impression from these that they existed solely to take the piss out of the fans who Naylor doesn't seem to like. Wasn't a particularly pleasant feeling either.




HughesRoss -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 8:01:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Overall, I got the impression from these that they existed solely to take the piss out of the fans who Naylor doesn't seem to like. Wasn't a particularly pleasant feeling either.


You may be right




KnightofZyryab -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 9:08:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Overall, I got the impression from these that they existed solely to take the piss out of the fans who Naylor doesn't seem to like. Wasn't a particularly pleasant feeling either.


I actually think you've got a point there, raised that thought in my mind particularly when they meet the maker at the temple in the Blade Runner parody.




Joedini -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 9:53:35 PM)

Well... I can certainly see why there wasn't a laugh track, or perhaps there was and we were just hearing the audiences anguished silence.

Terrible show and an insult, not only to the fans who have waited so long for new episodes but to the show itself. I'm going to pretend that didn't happen!




Dirty Hartigan -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 10:37:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joedini

Well... I can certainly see why there wasn't a laugh track, or perhaps there was and we were just hearing the audiences anguished silence.

Terrible show and an insult, not only to the fans who have waited so long for new episodes but to the show itself. I'm going to pretend that didn't happen!



Henceforth Back to Earth will be known as The Red Dwarf Holiday Special [:D]




paul_ie86 -> RE: Red Dwarf Appreciation Thread (13/4/2009 11:03:46 PM)

It was shit




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