RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (Full Version)

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steveg66 -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 3:55:50 PM)

Where was Blade? I mean the bloke out of Tin Tin, c'mon!! I hate Tin Tin, it put me to sleep when i was a kid! Even if Blade didn't make top 10, a space would have been there if it weren't for Captain Haddock
Silver Surfer also missing.




britesparc -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 4:00:39 PM)

That was a really good list, enjoyed reading it.  Obviously some are going to argue about placings and suchlike (I really do think Batman should be above Superman) but there was a nice mix of "indie" and "mainstream" characters, and inevitable controversy (Spider-Man at five!  Oh Lordy!  I'd argue with that, except that I've sworn off the character since One More Bloody Day so he gets demoted a bit).  There was some characters I'd not heard of, too, so it's been a bit of an education.

I'd also liked to have seen a Transformer or two in there (Bumblebee, Starscream, or Grimlock, perhaps) but I guess technically they began as toys and cartoons first so maybe that discounts them.  Also, on a personal note, it would have been nice if Death's Head got a mention, but maybe he's too obscure (and Death's Head II is shite).  But my biggest upset was the lack of love for Dick Grayson.  Dick Grayson!  Come on!  Surely, as Robin, he's one of the most famous superheroes ever - certainly up there with Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man!  Plus as Nightwing he kicks arse, and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being Batman once RIP finishes.  Sigh.




jabbathehutt -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 4:13:36 PM)

Great list Empire!!! Thank you!
I would actually have Batman, Daredevil and Hellboy in my top three, followed by almost everyone from The Preacher. Characters that I think are missing here:
Lobo
Slaine and his sidekick Ukko
And where is Snoopy?!!!




captzap -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 4:23:41 PM)

Great to see Obelix is on the list!
And especially great to see Cerebus -though it could have been even higher (it's number 38). And we're hoping to rectify that whole statement on the bottom there where it says: "Cerebus has never (and is rather unlikely) to ever make the leap to the big screen" www.cerebus3d.com





Vertigo...Woo.Yay. -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 4:26:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: captzap
And especially great to see Cerebus -though it could have been even higher (it's number 38).


Cerebus was brilliant until the point it became Dave Sim's vehicle for the subject 'Why I hate women, and why they hate me', at which point I found it to be largely unreadable.




David Somerset -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 4:27:39 PM)

I love that 12% of people actually took the time to vote that Superman should be higher than #1.

Love it.




captzap -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 4:33:37 PM)

Can't live with 'em, can't live without them -it's a timeless tale:)
Anyway, we are focused on the earlier "funnier" Cerebus.




chandlerbing -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 4:53:06 PM)

not bad but i would have Batman number 1 and the joker 2. Would not have had spiderman in{HATE HIM} because every1 thinks he would beat batman. my top 5 would b.

1.Batman
2.Joker
3.Wolverene
4.Hellboy
5.Commisoner gordon even thow he wasnt there




bobthegrinch -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 5:11:36 PM)

 alsybroth

"Superman has to be No.1 on the list, simply becuase he is THE archtype of all comic creations and definition of the word 'Superhero'. I'm not a Superman fan but I think anyone who moans about him being No.1 should just pipe it."

Maybe he is regarded as the first superhero archetype but most of the characters in this list have little in common with Superman beyond having powers and a costume. It's hard to see the Superman influence in characters like John Constantine, Judge Dredd or Rorschach. George Brenner created the costumed crime fighter The Clock who debuted in 1936 so Superman isn't the first comic book costumed crime fighter and he's clearly not the first super powered fictional character. Besides which the greatest doesn't mean the archetype. In this context it means the best which Superman isn't. His place shouldn't be based on his influence but how good a character he is. Considering the nature of the rest of the choices on the list it seems bizarre that such a boring and creatively poorly managed (I admit every few years someone makes a good Superman story) character has beat them out. It's like saying a ZX Spectrum is better than modern computer just because it affected what came after.




livewire -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 5:37:19 PM)

Ahem. Some one else we missed. my favourite comic character from my childhood.

[image]http://thelittlechimpsociety.com/images/np5.jpg[/image]




matthewforan -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 5:49:34 PM)

Jesse Custer looks like a good character, I've never read any of the Preacher books. He looks like someone Heath Ledger may have played but since his passing maybe Joseph Gordon-Levitt even Casey Affleck.




danbo1138 -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 5:51:15 PM)

more of a Smudge man myself[;)]




cerebusboy -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 6:32:43 PM)

When did Cerebus misogynistically jump the shark then? I think it makes the comic book environment look deeply infantile that Dave the creator gets mixed up with appraising the work; yes, anti-women material did form an element of the latter half of Cerebus but that shouldn't obscure its other elements (e.g. brilliant story about Fitzgerald, best art and lettering of the entire series, etc)




danbo1138 -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 6:40:35 PM)

i just about remember seeing cerebus,but i have never had the pleasure of reading any.could you kind folks recommend a graphic novel that would be a great introduction ot that universe please.




Halloweenfreak -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 6:43:55 PM)

My top 10 comic book characters including heroes and villains

1) Wolverine
2) Batman
3) The Punisher
4) Venom
5) The Joker
6) Superman
7) Spiderman
8) Lex Luther
9) Carnage
10) Magneto




cerebusboy -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 6:45:34 PM)

Well, Cerebus is a 27 year 300 issue series so the common advice is to start with the first volume; however it is pretty 2-dimensional and amateurish compared to the rest of it. I'd say go for "Jaka's Story" or "Melmoth".  Sim's latest work - Judenhass , about the Shoah - features a cover blurb from Sandman's "Neil Gaiman" saying that it is the first comic in years that made him cry.




danbo1138 -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 6:47:15 PM)

ta for that.




doc brown -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 7:42:24 PM)

Is The Tick series, with Patrick Warbuton, availble on region 2 DVD?




Drew_231 -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 8:05:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eruptus
Captain Haddock could've been higher and you could've added Comedian to the list.
[/quote}]

Actually, I couldnt agree more
Id have to disagree with Superman as number one too. While he certainly is the most recognisable hero, he's definatly not the best. In fact he's possibly the worst hero of them all.
'Lets make him invincible, and have his only weakness being kryptonite, and then spend the next 70 years endlessly recycling this over and over again'

Has Superman ever actually developed as a character? The majority of other heros have gone through at least a few character arcs, while SM is pretty much identical to the day he first appeared




theriddler -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 9:25:02 PM)

I think that i should have been number 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




theriddler -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 9:27:26 PM)

It's a well known fact that the batman would kick the shit outta that big girl supes




theriddler -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 9:28:22 PM)

Also missing two-face and the fox




sserplla -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 9:28:26 PM)

Great list! its good to see the less well known ones get a shout, along with the more popular ones....

although he wasn't anywhere near as popular as anyone else on the list, i was always a big fan of Gambit (from X-men), but i guess it was too much too hope for him making the list




LordShaper -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 9:38:13 PM)

Hmm, Flash should have made an appearance - the Barry Allen incarnation. He ushered in the Silver Age of comics and has been greatly missed since his death in 1985. Good thing he's about to make a comeback just in time to save the universe!




Vertigo...Woo.Yay. -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 10:53:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

When did Cerebus misogynistically jump the shark then? I think it makes the comic book environment look deeply infantile that Dave the creator gets mixed up with appraising the work; yes, anti-women material did form an element of the latter half of Cerebus but that shouldn't obscure its other elements (e.g. brilliant story about Fitzgerald, best art and lettering of the entire series, etc)



Pretty much halfway through Mothers And Daughters.

It's not infantile at all: the voice was clearly Sim's and it was clear - and I think he was happy to admit at the time - that the comic and his autobiographical musings had become entwined.  Take one of the stories in Reads where Vicktor is basically Sim - all that stuff about 'creative male light' and the 'emotional female void'. im himself called it anti-feminism, whilst he tried to (unsuccessfully) counter allegations of mysogeny. Jesus, it was Tangent that he identifies a 'feminist/homosexualist axis'. Yes there were episodes inbetween that didn't feature those ramblings, but after the joy of High Society, Church And State, Jaka's Story and Melmoth a tainted well is a tainted well.

Really, it's not a stretch to attribute that voice to him, especially when he freely admitted it at the time.

And please don't assume I'm infantile for holding a different viewpoint. It may be a mistake to call the author the narrator, but when the author has identified himself as the narrator, the bets are kind of off.




jighooligan -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 11:03:00 PM)

Excellent list not suprisd by the top 2 but thats not a bad thing. Nice to see some indie comic characters so that its not just a whos who of marvel and DC. Like many others I was suprised the Flash didnt make an apperance.




adragonwithamohawk -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 11:30:02 PM)

This list became redundant as soon as I realised V was not in it. Superman and batman are hugely overrated characters (no matter how good the recent batfilms have been). Replace superman with V and switch batman with wolverine and it would be a much better list!




cerebusboy -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (8/7/2008 11:35:58 PM)

 
The voice in Cerebus #186 was a fictional character (Victor Davis); that Dave subsequently agrees with these views (c.f. his Collected Letters) and defended them in letter columns doesn't alter this. Not to mention that Dave said the end of Church and State (talking about how *men* were the Voids and Women the lights) and the end of Reads were opposing viewpoints on the same subject which he himself regards as only perceiving accurately post conversion. In a sense, the reaction kind of vindicated Dave : you can imagine him saying that "look: the comic book word is so feministised that I can write a comic in the voice of a fictional character and it will lead to me being ostracised. Contrast this with the reaction to the anti-male ending of Church and State. See?".

Dave has also claimed to be anti-feminist even when writing work such as Jaka's Story; does that make *it* a tainted well? I do find it strange that there may be all sorts of works of general literature that reflect values unacceptable today that can still be safely enjoyed (obviously female liberation is a fairly recent phenomena historically) , but this isn't true of accurately appraising cerebus.  I wasn't calling *you* infantile, but I would maintain that the comic book environment doesn't seem to have the maturity that allows people to e.g. still enjoy Larkin despite the "sewer beneath the national monumennt" revelations.

ryan




Bowl of Wrong -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (9/7/2008 12:41:57 AM)

Empire, Empire, Empire, your decision not to place V on this list has left me perplexed, shaken but also a little aroused. I do not understand.




Samoa Joker -> RE: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Characters (9/7/2008 12:48:59 AM)

Great list, Empire.  Personally, I would have put Batman in at #1, and had The Joker in the top five.  The biggest glaring omission that I'd have liked to see included in the list is Two-Face.  Such a great, tragic character.  Other than that, most of my disagreements lie with the ordering of the list.

But, of course, nobody's going to agree with every character in the list and their placing.  The quality should be determined by the content of the feature, and each piece was a well-written summary of the character in question.  A good read, Empire, well done.  One of the best features you've done in a while.




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