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The Thing About Retconning

Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 14:56 by Chris Hewitt in Off The Wire
The Thing About Retconning

I’m not going to soft-soap this one, readers. As someone who considers John Carpenter’s The Thing to be one of the finest, if not the finest, horror films of all time, I was already in an almighty funk over today’s news that Universal is planning a prequel, with a first-time commercials director at the helm.

Regardless of the fact that Battlestar Galactica head honcho Ronald D. Moore is writing, I was highly sceptical of a proposed storyline that would show what happened to the Norwegian research station prior to the events of Carpenter’s movie. Been there, done that – do we really need this movie?

But then I read a rumour on CHUD that claims that the hero of the story (who is doomed from the off, let’s not forget) is none other than the brother of Kurt Russell’s R.J. MacReady, the hero of Carpenter’s flick. And that’s when I really got mad.

Not only does this make absolutely no sense whatsoever – perhaps it would if MacReady had mentioned that he had a brother stationed nearby; maybe he could have said it while he was EXPLORING THE NORWEGIAN BASE – but it’s another example of a practice that’s become a pet hate of mine: retconning.

Wikipedia (it is our friend) defines retconning, or retroactive continuity, as “the deliberate changing of previously established facts in a work of serial fiction”.

It happens all the time in comics – try to piece together the tangled history of Wolverine and Sabretooth and you’re likely to go insane – and TV shows (the ongoing issue, in Heroes, of Sylar’s parentage), but it’s still relatively rare in movies. But when it does happen – and, of course, it only happens in franchises - it’s more often than not deeply aggravating. Mainly because, more often than not, it allows people who are less creative than those who went before them to mess with canon.

Take Paul W.S. Anderson, meddling with the (admittedly slightly all over the shop) history of the Alien and Predator franchises in, well, Alien Vs Predator, which posits the possibility of a human encounter with those xenomorph bastards hundreds of years before the Nostromo picks up a distress signal from a grounded ship on LV-426. It. Doesn’t. Make. Any. Sense.

Then there are the times when a filmmaker has to bend over backwards to justify or erase events in a previous film because the storyline has made them obsolete. Case in point: no matter how much George Lucas might tell everyone that he had Star Wars mapped out from the very beginning, there’s little doubt that the revelation, in Return Of The Jedi, that Luke and Leia are siblings was a hasty retcon. And while the Luke/Leia family tie makes sense, from a certain point of view, it still makes Star Wars, in particular, uncomfortable viewing, given that Luke clearly has the horn for Leia from the minute they meet. Dude, she’s your sister!

There are examples when it works well – Sam Raimi neatly compresses The Evil Dead into the opening five minutes of the magnificent Evil Dead II, changing the backstory so that Ash (Bruce Campbell) now travels to the cabin in the woods with his girlfriend, and not four friends. Bang – they’re gone, just like that. Take that, accepted Evil Dead canon!

But Raimi is not without guilt in this area. Take Spider-Man 3, with its cack-handed revelation that it was The Sandman, and not the fat robber with dodgy blond highlights, who killed poor, endlessly sermonising Uncle Ben (personally, I’d have punched his ticket the second he started banging on about great power and great responsibility blah blah blah). Talk about putting the ‘con’ in ‘retconning’.

As ever, readers, I aim to provide just the tip of the iceberg. You take care of the rest – does this get on your wick as much as it does mine? Is this Thing prequel the worst idea in the history of bad ideas? And can you think of any other examples? The world is your oyster below…

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Comments

1 dan5773
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 15:52
2 words: Highlander Two. (shudder)

2 Chris Hewitt
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 15:57
Of course! How could I forget that one?!? Awful, awful, awful... the movie equivalent of Bobby Ewing stepping out of the shower.

3 Coolerking2007
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:00
why oh why oh why??? macready has a brother??? wat bollox!! thats the worst thing anyone cud have made up!

4 GarethGriffiths1963
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:03
in the immortal words of "The Thing"'s Palmer - "YOU GOTTA BE FUCKING KIDDING!'"
I remember as a nineteen year old queuing to the Carpenter's The Thing upon it's initial release and being a huge Rob Bottin fan I did not expect to have my socks blown off as they were! Carpenter's, Russell's, Morricone's, Bottin's et als finest achievement......please DO NOT fuck with this classic with some half-arsed retcon bollocks...it'd be akin to tacking a happy coda onto the end of Aronofsky's "Requiem For A Dream"

5 sleepwalker
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:04
This may be the most important blog in the history of Empire.

Im not going to go see any prequel to The Thing

Im also seriously worried what MC G is going to do when he finally ends up sending the young Kyle Reese back in time to protect Sarah Connor. Its going to be a travesy!


6 livewire
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:07
I wish they would leave the thing alone and come up with something original. there's not an original idea left in hollywood

7 The Equalizer
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:08
I think dan5773 said everything!

Another, albeit not quite the same, style of 'retconning' is plain and simple 'ruining'. Look at The Matrix Reloaded and the entire Architect speech. Such a load of dross!

8 Saintchas
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:14
Ruining... how about Chronicles of Riddick... way to destroy the memory of a pretty nasty little first flick in Pitch Black!

9 jojevne
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:17
Prequel to The Thing? I'll take "movies that should never be fucked with" for 500, please. How are they going to tackle the fact that they are norwegian, have subtitles? That'll make for a broad audience appeal. Crap Idea, in norwegian. Great tagline.

As a norwegian I can pretty much tell everyone that norwegian movies are bad or grossly overrated, but american movies portraying norwegians (except The Thing) are perhaps even worse.

10 nicky1975
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:20
"Scream 3" - we NOW discover that the first film's killer wasnt the genuis behind everything after all. Pathetic seeing as they were all Kevin Williamson's ideas (he did the treatment for no.3)

"The Mummy Returns" - we NOW discover that Rachel Weisz is in fact the Pharoah's daughter reincarnated and that Brendan and Oded's characters are "warrior brothers" complete with matching tatooes.


11 Mopictures
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:27
24 is the worst retcot contender BY FAR.

It's so interminable to decipher that I long ago decided not to care (Althought there are LEGIONS of people who do out there!). Here are just the tip of the iceberg by way of examples:

1) David Palmer revealed to have A BROTHER called Dwayne! Why did we never hear about this dude?

2) David and Dwayne Palmer have A SISTER! Not only is she brought in for season 6! (Not ONE mention before this!) but she is also CONSPICUOUS by her absence from the memorial procession of a certain someone in the previous series...

3) The ENTIRE of season 6 - Jack's brother is THAT dude from season 5! Not only did this guy have a different name last time around, but it takes the BEAUTIFUL twist bad guy from the last season (And it was a great bad guy) and made him yet ANOTHER fall guy for the WORST twist bad guy in the franchises history. Not only a major mistep, but one that damages one of the best seasons!

4) Tony. Oh yeah, you know what I'm talking about.


12 Saintchas
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:28
HAHAHAHAHAHA I love that kind of thing in 'The Mummy Returns' - it sort of fits the hokey nature of the film.

It's when studios/producers make a hackneyed attempt at associating with a classic (often horror or genre - strangely, areas with the most ardent of fans!) in name only, attempting to make a quick (or nostalgic) buck that really sticks in the throat for me.

13 Mopictures
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:30
And I really dig 24 by the way! That's why retconning really hurts - it's often the Raimi's and the Lucas' (And other much loved peeps) who are the culprits!

One day we'll get "Back To The Future, Part IV" and it'll turn out that Biff is Marty's real dad and Doc Brown has already met Marty back in the 30's when he was about 15, just kept it real quiet - timelines and all that!

14 Mopictures
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:33
And what will REALLY kill is it'll be Robert Zemeckis who bloody did it!

15 Kitson
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:37
Back to the future 2, how do George & Lorrainenot comment that their son Marty looks incredibly like someone who helped them get together?! And surely Biff would remember because of a) crashing into a manure truck, twice! & b) he stole a book off of him that would have made him richer than the Sultan of Brunei! I definitely wouldn't have forgotten something like that!!

16 Leightwinst
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:41
The Thing is the finest horror film of all time and should not be even looked at being linked to or even considered to be remade in anyway, shape or (life) form.

Although having never seen it, isn't American Pyscho 2 about Patrick Bateman's sister's daughters father's ex-mother in law or something? And isn't The Shat(ner) in it?

17 Saintchas
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:43
Seems all these problems arise when movies that were conceived as one offs / stand alone are spun into sequels after they make a truck load of cash and the studio says 'more please'. Most recent example: Pirates of the Caribbean 'trilogy'...

18 Karl Crutchley
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:48
Now its been a while since I have seen it so someone correct me if i'm wrong, but in Superman 2, didn't Superman nail Lois after he had removed his powers and become human?
If so how did "his son" from Superman Returns end up having super powers?
I do like that film but the whole son business really grinds my gears.

19 varoh
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:49
I dont know if this is retconning or inconsitency but in the Bourne Identity the CIA say thats Bournes love interest Marie has a grandmother and half brother. Later in the movie we meet the half brother and he's a 40's-ish English guy.
Yet in the Bourne Ultimatum when Bourne goes to visit Marie's brother to tell him of her death he has the mid 20's German guy from Goodbye Lenin. So did she have a brother that Treadstone didn't know about or could the makers not get the original actor back so they thought they'd just retcon the character by hiring somebody not even remotely like the original hope that we'd just forget. The matter of fact way they introduce him would imply to me that they were just hoping they could bluff it out.

20 emmalou13
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:50
OMG NOOO!!!

Some Questions please......WHY? Why does there have to be a blood relative of MacReady at the Norwegian base?
Whats the point? There is no need.
Is he Norwegian? If so how?
What the hell???

The Thing is my all time favourite horror movie (Closely followed by An American Werewolf in London) if they trash this the way they trashed Werewolf in Paris and the Alien and Predator franchises, I'm gonna run for Prime Minister and declare War on Hollywood!!

P.s I believe that Superman Returns is a good example of Retconning. Yes let us please ignore the God awful Supermans 3 and 4 and begin again. (same with Batman begins I suppose)

21 BK00time
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:50
It all makes me very nervous about want retconning is going to do the "new" Star Trek movie. All the flash in the world is not going to make up for screwing with the canon just to suckle on the teet of that franchise.

22 Saintchas
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:55
Anyone for a bit of 'Manhunter' love / 'Red Dragon' hate... what an artless exercise in pure looting that was...

23 Merc
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 16:58
I presonally have no opinion regarding the horror/slasher movie continuity, as no disrespect, they bore me senseless.

The comic book modifications however, i do agree are irritating beyond a mere itchy testicle, and are at the stage of a full-grown rectal wart!

24 Saintchas
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 17:05
The Terminator saga (including Sarah Conner Chronicles, T3).

I'm with sleepwalker regardling Terminator: Salvation; it's going to be interesting to see what get's glossed over.

25 kt lou1
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 17:05
How about adding Dawn to series 5 of Buffy. Completely re-wrote everything that had happened. Worst thing they could have added. Dawn sucks!!

26 Ivan_Drago
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 17:09
Leave 24 alone Mopictures!

Firstly his name is Wayne Palmer, not Dwayne.
And we never see David's funeral - all we see is Logan escorting David's body to an airfield for his funeral back in Washington. Sandra Palmer would have met the body there as she works in Washington.
And there was no reason to mention Sandra before day 6. (Why did Chloe never mention her husband before Day 5 - there was no need)
And Jacks brother Graem is never different - I think Jack calls him Gray sometimes but that's likely due to a brother nickname or summat.

But yes, the Tony thing is weird. And he needs to grow his hair back.

27 Saintchas
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 17:27
How about 'Kong Lives'!

King Kong falls from the Twin Towers (with Jessica Lange and Jeff Bridges looking on) and dies... or does he!!!

HAHAHAHAHA now that's really bleeding an idea for all its worth: Dino De Laurentiis serial offender!

28 sleepwalker
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 17:29
I can see the Terminator franchise becomming a sequel/remake in the same way that theyve done the Star Trek retcon, although what they are doing in star Trek im looking forward to. The Terminator is going to suck titanium balls.


29 Mopictures
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 17:32
Did not mean to cause offense, Ivan_Drago. as I said I love the show. I'll give you Wayne and Sandra. That Extended first family get special treatment, because the Palmers rock.

They are examples of Retconning though. When a character is created for a show, their whole lives are planned out, including family trees and partners. When a new character is introduced out of the blue with no previous mention it does sound alarm bells.

And bringing Jack's family into the series was SERIOUSLY retconning. And you can't say that it didn't take away from Series 5 to suggest that the MAIN CHARACTER's family were responsible for the bulk of the conspiracy - it's contrived and takes a serious amount of credibility away from what started as a very credible show.

Sorry. 37E6.

30 napier007
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 18:02
You think that's bad?

What about that hack Chris Nolan and what he did to the work of art that was "Batman & Robin?"

So now, not only is there no Robin, but apparently Batman is no longer gay. Way to fuck with canon Chris.

31 Mopictures
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 18:13
haha!

32 jimmyboy81
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 20:38
Terminator 3...bloody awful and ruined the perfect ending that was T2 by claiming that they didn't end Judgement Day happening after all, all to get a few million dollars at the box office. May or may not be retconning but it still riles me that they made, and are making, sequels to two classic movies such as Terminator 1 and 2, which had a very good close of the story already.

33 boyscout72
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 20:47
totally agree with dan 5773 on highlander 2 not too concerned about a prequel to the thing just as long as they dont ever fuck with die hard. worst case of retconning in the history of television has to be Dallas (yes im old enough to remember dallas) when the previous season was revealed to be a dream and bobby ewing wasnt dead after all he was just having a shower.

34 samuel scissorhands
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 20:56
Heroes is the worst culprit, Takezo Kensei was supposed to be a japanese samuri legend, not a drunk, blonde with a british accent

35 mattybilco
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 21:06
Surely this isn't always a bad thing - isn't the whole of Smallville a retcon?

36 Mopictures
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 21:16
jimmyboy81 you are right. They killed off the whole human race (nearly) just to make another million bucks! That's unforgivable!

37 leahnz
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 22:10
retconning gone wrong: phantom menace/clone/sith (tho i have a soft spot for 'sith'). lucus reconned himself stupid with so many inconsistencies and tinkering with the facts from the original 'star wars' trilogy

38 Deckard**
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 22:12
Judgement Day has to happen in the Terminator films as without it John Connor wouldnt of been born. Without SkyNet there would be no time displacement device and no terminator sent back to kill Sarah Connor, therefore Reese wouldnt travel back in time as her protector and wouldnt father John Connor, ergo his attempts in T2 to prevent SkyNets creation he is in-fact preventing his very existence from occuring, Terminator 3 was a poor entry but the best thing about it was the start of the war which changed due to the actions in T2 and why Salvation's future will be different from the one Reese told Sarah about, and as for the Bourne comment by Voroh, the English guy in his 40s was no relation but just a friend, she says it herself to Bourne and Superman comments by Crutchley, he may of had his powers taken away but he was still Kryptonian and therefore his "seed" would be too

39 leahnz
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 22:17
sorry, don't know how i managed to miss 'star wars' in the main commentary, my bad

another retcon i hate: indiana jones and the temple of doom. what was the point of a prequel there?

40 Mopictures
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 22:29
Here's an interesting one: Does anyone find it hard to stomach the re-casting of a key character (Eg, Rachel Dawes, Lt. Rhodes, John Connor, hell, even Jennifer from Back To The Future)?

I know there's no way around it so it's a mute point, but could that be considered a TYPE of retconning? I mean, they are pretending to have gone on the original "journey" with the returning cast, whilst at the same time "doing there own thing" with the role. It can take you out of the film sometimes.

Again, there's no way around it and they are actors so their job is to pretend (in fact sometimes they're better than the first!) I'm probably just talking out of my arse, here.

41 The ASH
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 22:32
Not to get too much in the debate of "Retconning" but regardless of anything else, why make a prequel to The Thing? Obviously money is the only reason but why not a sequel? A sequel could well have some plausability given the right story. With a prequel the storyline is limited to say the least and in general prequels are almost always pretty dull. With a sequel there could be some potential, how many part 2's do we get for slightly older classics? That would get my attention at least.

42 The ASH
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 22:33
Oh, to add to the "Retconning" debate, one of the worst offenders is the Halloween series. There's some added baggage in most of the films but the worst appears in Halloween H20 & Halloween Resurrection.

In Hallowwen H20 the story intergrates Jamie Lee Curtis back into the franchise and in doing so giving an excuse as to why her character faked her death (her character was said to be dead in Halloween 4 to give reason for her not being in the film). But what is not revealed or hinted at is the daughter she had and was a pivotal character in the previous 3 sequels, completlely erased.

Halloween Resurrection I think goes one better. The ending for H20 is almost the perfect ending a franchise can have, the killer conclusively offed by hes long suffering victim.... Wait for the next installment and they put in a few scenes from the end of the previous film along with a couple of extra scenes showing the killer swap places with a nobody, puts hes mask on him, break his wind so he can't speak and have him get decapitated in the killers place... stupid.

43 Chow Yun Slim
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 22:37
What ever happened to the comic book sequel to The Thing that was released, i dont know when? I heard that Carpenter thought it a good idea for a movie sequel.
Even that would be better than shoe horning in MacReady's damn brother!
Could the new Hobbit movie be in danger of a bit of retconning? I hope not, and doubt the talent involved would do that.

44 Lemure
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 22:44
Why not just ignore it? Everybody else will.

45 Code_187
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 23:53
I'd love to see the meeting where someone came up with the idea of a Thing prequel with Macready's brother in it. Who in their right minds ever thought that would be a good idea?
Ronald D. Moore needs to stay well away from this one to avoid a nasty blot in his copybook.

I don't care how good/bad it might end up, some films should not be revisited. To me it's like making a sequel to Seven or the Usual Suspects.

46 mjscarface
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 00:15
Blade II, despite being a bloody good film made a bad one in the first few minutes when it turns out Whistler didn't die and got whisked away to various vamp-hideouts across Europe...

It wasn't entirely rubbish, because Kris Kristofferson kicked ass as that character.

47 varoh
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 00:20
Deckard** my bad, good catch

48 SWOTBM
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 00:32
I agree with almost everything but why doesnt it make sense for a human to encounter a xenomorph hundreds of years before the events of Alien? From memory I thought that the predator species brought the aliens to earth to hunt them for sport and kept the populations in check by whatever means necessary. By story standards that doesnt seem that bad, especially given the xenomorph skull in predator 2.

49 Two47shades
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 02:04
Ahh... The Thing.... It is by far one of the most unappreciated works of John Carpenter and Kurt Russell. For me, it is the best of all the Horror flicks. Very original and just shouldn't be messed with,..... especially with a prequel. They all mostly, always fail. I say 'mostly' because there has to be one out there that has worked, though I haven't ever seen one that has. We'll see how the 'The Hobbit' does.

I have the comics that came out about what happen after Childs and MacReady. That is an awesome telling of how this show should be continued.

By the way it is nice to finally find someone who agrees that 'Red Dragon' can never top Michael Mann's 'Manhunter'. It is said to see William Peterson leaving CSI. I could always see Will Graham in his character.

I'm OUT.

50 MetalManDan
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 02:06
Do we really really have to have a prequel ? Its already been covered in the film? we had a glimpse at what happened to the outpost. They found the site, dug it from the ground, ice melts, creature awakens, gets pissed, kills everyone in sight then freezes. End of story.

And since when did MacReady have a brother ? like the guy said it wasnt mentioned in the film at all, surely when they were exploring the base he would have said "I hope my brother is still alive" or some crap like that. It would have been a better idea either making a sequel where it gets into a populated area of some kind or not make a sequel at all. It maybe being written by the guy who rebooted Battlestar (which is fucking awesome) but this has to be the worst idea this year, maybe in film history.

This is a pure example of hollywood losing out on idea's and trying to milk as much money from franchise reboots and remakes.


51 Pennick
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 02:23
Jesus man.....
i mean come on, this is THE THING!!! its a beautiful example of horror film-making at its best and probleys my favorite film of all time. but anyway with the fact out the way.
when i first heard that a sequel to the thing was in the mix well it was laughable, i mean a sequel you can ignore relatively easily. but a prequel thats fucking with our film now, i mean his brother!!! fuck you hollywood and your isistance on ruining classics because you dont have any of your own ideas!!!! anyway rant over!

52 benskelly
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 03:15
James Bond's history gets rearranged in Casino Royale - no longer a Commander in the Navy, and I don't believe Fleming ever wrote Bond as a poverty-stricken scholarship kid trying to fit in with rich classmates as the film implies. It all seems to fit with the more crass sophistication-disabled Daniel Craig, I'm sorry to say. Not to mention, he's becoming a Double-O on the eve of his 40th fucking birthday! What kind of reboot is that?? Hell, George Lazenby had already saved the world from Blofeld, fallen in love, gotten married and lost his wife about ten years before Craig's "first mission". Sigh. I know a lot of people think he's great, and he is a strong presence, he's just not the James Bond I grew up with. Sorry.

To Varoh - Just adding on to what you pointed out... I hated the way in The Bourne Ultimatum they took that great ending from The Bourne Supremacy ("You look tired") and changed it into something completely different. Joan Allen's character gives Bourne a fake birthdate to set up a meeting place! WTF??? First of all, how does he know it's fake? Secondly, how does he translate it into the correct address? It's ridiculous. Here again I'm in the minority, but Supremacy was pretty much perfection, a great mix of story and action. Ultimatum was a tired retread of the SAME story (literally circling back on itself) and had nothing new or interesting to offer. It's just action - badly shot action - with no advancing plot or deepening character. The final revelation is pathetically anti-climactic.

Uhm. I have spoken.

53 badsanta
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 06:23
It's ironic that one of the greatest composers in Cinema scored the Thing, which was directed by one of the worst composers in Cinema - and it still ended up sounding like one of John Carpenter's scores! Weird.

Anyway, it's still the only one of Carpenter's films I can watch.

Bond needed a reboot. Daniel Craig was 38, I believe, when he made Casino Royale.

54 Reaps
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 08:02

So basically, MacReady has a norwegian brother working in a camp not far from his own out in the middle of antartica ?..

The whole norwegian backstory is exactly that.. a backstory ! and thats how it serves it's purpose. Norwegian's find frozen alien, norwegian's dig out frozen alien, frozen alien defrosts, frozen alien makes a rather nice two headed monster outside, norwegian's either run away, get killed or kill themselves, norwegian's make a cack-handed job at killing the dog/thing hybrid and blow themselves up.

This has wrong written all over it.

55 cheekyfacedmonkey
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 08:27
Now now lets all just calm ourselves down and take a deep breath. Ok, so they are gonna make some stuff up, play with the facts a little, maybe you could argue that MacReady didnt mention his bro because he was in on it all.....doomed from the start..............hey I could be a retconner!!!!!!!! NO!!!!!!!! this is an outrage, I dont believe it will go ahead, mind you they did remake the Fog. I wont go and see this thing.

56 MacReadysfluffybeard
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 10:03
I always thought that Kurt Russell’s R.J. MacReady was one of the best portrayals of this kind of character in this genre, just the right side of heroic and shit scared (and even a little is he or isn't he the thing thrown in there at one point), but now I know he was actually a heartless bastard who really didn't give a monkey's about his poor brothers fate when he and doc investigated that Norwegian station!!

God damn you retconners! As Reaps said, the Norwegians are a backstory, why the hell would someone think that taking that small part of a film we already know, (and seen the conclusion too) and stretching it into a 90 min plus movie and bastardizing a wonderful classic in the process seem like a good idea? Oh yeah dollar signs!

I suppose this isn't the first as most are listed here and it probably wont be the last retconning as long as people go see them, so hey, maybe we shouldn't.

The trouble is with the likes of Chris Nolan and papa abrams creating great pieces of work out of tired old fluff, suddenly half witted simpletons are clutching at any film with a fan base and thinking they have a great idea!

Soap box back in cupboard now.

57 gambit21
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 10:05
I agree with most of what people have said but has everyone forgotten the horrible retcon that is Jurassic Park 3? Not only have they done the whole lost world shi already but they have the gall to invent another island where they happened to keep dinosaurs- just in case. I hate t so much. Although a prequel to The thing maybe more disgusting. On a slightly different topic are there any films you would hate to see retconned or any films you would like to see retconned. If they ever retcon Leon I will have to actually kill someone.

58 alsybroth
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 10:25
Speaking of Halloween, apaprt from the dreadful H20 and Resurrection, to me it was always Part 6, where it reaveled that Michael Myers was hand-raised by satanists of something to that effect, just to give and excuse to his invincibility/evil prowess. Totally retarted.

But really, is terms of retconning, the biggest culprit of all is in fact one of my favourite TV series of all time - Red Dwarf.

59 Jayseph
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 10:42
Yeah you're not wrong - the whole Christine Kochanski thing was all over the place wasn't it?

60 grucl
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 11:19
Highlander 3 is just as guilty as Highlander 2!

While they pretend that part 2 never happend they introduce another Immortal who survived in a cave somewhere.
Apparently the higher power that gives away The Prize can't be arsed to check if there is still one more around.

61 MC Liver
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 11:25
The Star Trek movies also have a number of examples (not an exhaustive list):

The Motion Picture - Klingons. The franchise was still trying to unpick that around the time of Enterprise.
The Wrath of Khan - Some elements of the Khan backstory and Kirk's son.
The Undiscovered Country: Colonel Worf, and the Praxis explosion (which then disappeared again).
Generations: Some of Guinan's backstory and interaction with Soran.
First Contact: Zephram Cochrane, completely changed from the original series.
Nemesis: Yet another android that Dr Soong had magically put together then dismantled.

62 onyx79
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 11:28
I really hope they leave "The Thing" alone, it is and always will be a CULT film. Next thing you know, they'll bring us: "The Thing: The musical"...Absurd!

63 MASTERD
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 11:54
Why oh why!
I loved the original it was a classic but you all know that this remake is going to be a steaming pile of pain.


64 Hobin Wan Kenobi
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 12:00
Got to whole heartedly agree Chris, do we really need this film? No, do we fook!!!

Far too many films these days are either remakes or prequels, i think its lazy personally and they are often absolute shite and extremely unoriginal much like making sequel after sequel of one successful project.

Whats more is that they always seem to do it to films i love which pisses me off, one of the reasons The Thing was so creepy was because you don't really know what went on before and you are sort of in the same sort perplexed sitation the scientists are in, trying to work out what the fuck the thing is and what it can do. All of that would be lost in a prequel if you ask me.

65 Hobin Wan Kenobi
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 12:09
Chow Yun Slim
Posted on Thursday January 29, 2009, 22:37

The Hobbit was written before lord of the rings and the people involved in making it have far too much respect for the literature for it to get the retconn treatment, or at least i fuckin hope not!!!!

66 grucl
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 12:21
Here is another one:

At the end of "A better tomorrow" Chow Yun Fat dies, right?

So how can he be in the sequel?

Easy: HE HAS A TWIN BROTHER! Yeah!

67 Marwood
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 13:21
For fucks sake!

If they've got to further cash in on The Thing can't they just do a remake? Why a prequel? Jesus...

68 VincentWire
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 13:46
I have to wonder that maybe in the mid-eighties there was a group of self-important roleplayers, huddled around their Dungeons & Dragons board, bitching about how that idiot who made The Fog was "retconning" The Thing From Another World.

Just a thought...

69 Chris Hewitt
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 14:40
Vincent, I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if the new Thing turns out to be a wonder. But it looks highly unlikely. Also, given that The Fog is also a horror classic, and that Carpenter hadn't put a foot wrong as a director before making The Thing, I doubt anyone was slagging him off. And he didn't retcon The Thing From Another World - he remade it. There's a difference.

As for A Better Tomorrow... good one.

Oh, and if people could Digg this article, that would be great. Thanks.

70 Mr Grizzly
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 15:13
I'm pretty sure that the Mission Impossible movies have some retconning in there... why does Tom Cruise always have a different boss?

Pirates of the Caribbean 2 : Oh stupid me, I forgot Elizabeth Swan was a complete badass with a sword....yes, Geoffrey Rush did die in the first one, but he was so good we wanted to bring him back, because he not really that evil and Orlando Bloom can't carry a film by himself...

71 bbX1138
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 15:39
emmalou13 - if those are your two favourite movies, and you live near London, you should check out the website for the Prince Charles cinema in Leicester Square...

72 granny
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 16:28
Perhaps MacReady was unaware that his bro was in the area. Comms can be awkward in remote areas dontcha know and they're also prone to being sabotaged by shape shifting aliens.

73 Barry
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 18:47
Die Hard with a Vengeance? Could that be considered a retcon? Hans Gruber = Best Villain ever, so, bring in next best thing, his brother.

The entire plot of Scream 3 (Although intentional)

Superman Returns' revelation that there is a CHILD involved.


74 islay10yearsold
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 18:56
The thing about remakes etc,

They're the best way to ruin the original film

75 dustdog
Posted on Friday January 30, 2009, 21:07
Totally agree with Two47shades: Manhunter was insulted by the making of Red Dragon (I thought Ed Norton couldn't fall deeper, but Hulk was yet to come...)
As for the Thing: leave it untouched. One of my favourites, Hollywood producers should take a vacation to the Norwegian station.

76 everton
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 00:13
Some else out there must be loving the irony of all this retcon / remake hate centered on a film that s itself a REMAKE of a classic cold war sci-fi horror classic. The Thing (the John Carpenter / Kurt Russell remake) is one of my favourite films to be sure; but so is the "original" Thing. I'm sure the very equivilent of this argument was to be seen when this "alien rip-off" dumbed down remake was about to come out. In fact, if I remember rightly, I'm sure that's one of the reasons it was such a misunderstood, and, unfortunately, relatively unsuccessful film when it 1st came out.

Oh don't worry despite all that I say above I too think this is an absoloutley awfull idea. the one thing that we can say in it's favour, is that however ridiculous the brother ide is, it will be well written as Ronald D Moore is about as good as it gets when it comes to Sci-fi screenwriting. Of course knowing that they ALL die is a bit of a bad start to a movie, except of course I'm sure someone/thing else might survive for a sequel.

Oh as for using the mostly awful, and repetitive Smallville as an example of retcons sometimes being good???????? Seriously? Smallville, Small--- oh which loner / misunderstood , kid has got weird powers because of some flukey "Kryptonite accident" - ville? How on Earth Clark Kent gets to live long enough to become Superman when the entire town he lives in happens to be covered in bloody Kryptonite I don't know. Of course that may explain how he managed to build up enough of a tolerance to Kryptonite to be able to fly a whole island of the smegging stuff up to space!

No point asking hollywood to look for original ideas, they've been retelling stories almost as long as there's been a hollywood. If they didn't we'd never have seen the likes of Baz Lurman's Romeo and Juliet (Shakespear's books have been filmed and refilmed countless times) The Maltese Falcon (Bogart) was the 3rd version. Fistfull of Dollars? The Heston Ben Hur? 12 Monkeys....etc...

77 everton
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 00:20
Oh and I know that you can argue for "The Thin" (1982) being an adaption of the book, rather than a remake of the "The Thing from another world" (1951) but by calling it the thing it really set irself up as a remake rather than another film of the book. Ironicaly it was closer to the book than the other "Thing".

78 Cobobrob
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 02:04
I agree that the Thing should not be remade but find this entire thread to be quite ironic as the Thing itself was a remake of Howard Hawk's 1951 film The Thing from another World

79 Cobobrob
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 02:05
didn't read the comments above

80 Juno14
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 03:10
Retconning assumes that we are all either stupid or ridiculously gullible. What's worse is that it usually occurs because the studio has realised it's onto a good thing, and wants to take advantage of it, instead of appreciating the work of art they created in the first place. Truth is they are only insulting themselves, because we reveal that the original work wasn't a work of genius (excusing the retcons that occur with a different writer/director at the helm, which is granted a fair amount of them, but bear with me here) it was pure accident. Which apart from anything is just horrifically sad.


81 onthemightofprinces
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 05:11
Everyone made exactly the same complaints about Ronald D. Moore when he signed up for the re-jig of Battlestar Galactica. Considering that BSG is now one of the most progressive, intelligent, profound and gripping series on television, I think I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'd say he's earned it.

82 badsanta
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 10:45
I do digg this article; it's groovy.

83 Chris Hewitt
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 11:17
For the last time - retconning is NOT remaking, so there's precious little irony here.

As for Ronald D. Moore being the best there is in sci-fi screenwriting, Star Trek: Generations begs to differ. But you're right, he deserves the benefit of the doubt for his work on BSG... for now at least. I'm more worried about the unknown commercials director, to be honest, especially as it's rumoured that he is the one who came up with the brother angle.

84 VincentWire
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 12:24
Chris:

To be fair, I don't think Carpenter is an idiot (but I do think The Fog is cheap and hokey), I'm a big fan of his economic style and especially his masterpiece which is The Thing. The point I was trying to provoke was that fan boy whimpering is often misplaced and is far more irritating than pointless prequels (which this is, but if they drop the brother thing it could work and it might be a nice little companion piece).

85 The Disciple
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 12:25
Quote: kt lou1
"How about adding Dawn to series 5 of Buffy. Completely re-wrote everything that had happened. Worst thing they could have added. Dawn sucks!!"

Not technically a retcon, as Dawn was actually created in that series as a teenager - all the retconning actually happened in the character's minds, not in the actual history of the show. She never existed in the first four seasons and creating her in season 5 didn't actually change that.

86 everton
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 12:51
Sorry, read all the posts and you'll find plenty of people bemoaning remakes, so there's much irony here.

87 drewalmighty
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 13:16
The Disciple is right about series 5 of Buffy. I'm not even sure if her addition can even be called "retconning" technically, because the characters themselves become aware of the retcon itself. There is no attempt to fool the audience into accepting the changes, as they know from the beginning that something is out of place. From Dawn's first appearance, the script makes clear there is something wrong with her addition. It just takes longer for the rest of the characters to work it out.

As for retconning "The Thing", having just watched it last night and reveling in its awesomeness, I'm utterly horrified by any prequel ...

88 emmalou13
Posted on Saturday January 31, 2009, 16:05
thank you bbx1138 i will!

89 Mandrake1979
Posted on Sunday February 1, 2009, 01:40
Dude I whole heartedly agree with you and you seem to be passionate about films which is refreshing from this website/magazine (mainly Ian Freer is a dick dont care if he is your friend) look forward to reading your articles and blog in the future. How can we stop this film being made?

90 angie82
Posted on Sunday February 1, 2009, 11:08
"Is this Thing prequel the worst idea in the history of bad ideas? "
YES!


"And can you think of any other examples?"
...yes The Thing Prequel!

91 Jasper
Posted on Sunday February 1, 2009, 20:29
"Is this Thing prequel the worst idea in the history of bad ideas? "

Although fucking with Carpenter should be considered a crime, quoting a Jurassic Park sequel is infinitely worse...



92 Concise_Statement
Posted on Sunday February 1, 2009, 23:53
Ah yes, retconning. It sounds like a nice civilised word, but then I guess that's the way all Orwellian concepts are meant to sound, once they have spewed out their latest press release from their in-house Ministry of Truth.

But if I can play devil's advocate for a second, there is potential for retconning to be used as a force for good, or to erase sins of the past if you will. Now whether you feel Superman Returns did an adequate job of building on the highlights of the previous franchise (and that debate reages on quite viciously) surely we can accept that even it's weakest points were nothing like as bad as the dismal latter sequels of before. I'd argue that, despite that film's flaws, this is a case of retconning actually restoring some credibility.

I will however concede that in most cases it is really just a tool for studios to milk a rather decrepit, Alzheimer's suffering cash cow.

93 whitech
Posted on Monday February 2, 2009, 10:50
i think that some of the posters need to look up the meaning of retcon, as alot of people think that introducing a new character down the line that are somehow linked to the past is retconning, nope retconning in either when the past continuity is changed in someway, actually contradicted. Introducing a character or event in a way that doesn't make sense, in effect. The brother in the thing prequel doesn't make sense, but mentioning new family members/friends that are introduced is not necessarily retcon. Nobody ever said Lando was a retcon, but suddenly Jack bauers family and hans grubars brother. I dont talk about y family everyday, especially one as busy as Jacks. Retcons of note: Dumbledorf being recast (as mentioned that can be a retcon)., Empire strikes back (Wait Anakin Skywalker didn't die, but not only that he had a kid....wait 2, who have also met him, and thought with him, and though he didn't know it in any way in the first film he can suddenly sense it from luke that hes a genetic offsoot off he sperm, but wait why cant he sense leia.....AHHHH!)
Lets not forget somefilms retcon themselves as well anyway, especially films with time displacement/travel, cause thats the aim of the game there.

What i'm saying is adding the story if it does not contradict the rest of the story (or common sense/logic) is not retconning

94 grucl
Posted on Monday February 2, 2009, 11:35
The SAW series is also very busy with this.

Jigsaw died at the end of part 3? Who cares! We'll tell the whole story all over again from the point of view of his unknown helper/apprentice/copycat killer and have him in flashbacks!

95 CSM101
Posted on Monday February 2, 2009, 11:49
They can't do this to The Thing. One of the greatest horror movies ever made. They cannot change something that has one of the greastest lines in cinematic history:

"I just cannot believe any of this voodoo bullshit"

To be honest though, whatever they do I'm just going to ignore. Shit, it worked for me with Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection. As far as I'm concerned Hicks and Ripley are bringing up Newt whilst Bishop is fixing some drinks.


96 insanechick774
Posted on Tuesday February 3, 2009, 00:22
CSM101 I totally share that Hicks/Ripley situation! Alien 3 and Resurrection were awful and should be totally disregarded from the Alien saga.

I hate this retconning - its such a load of shit! Similar to this is when they make books into films ....don't even get me started!!!

Most are amazing - The Green Mile, The Shining, High Fidelity and To Kill a Mocking Bird to name but a few. But Along came a Spider, Memoirs of a Geisha and The Kite Runner (just off the top of my head, think of anymore???) were shit! The book is written for a reason - why change things for viewing purposes??

As for the Thing prequel...I won't be going anywhere near that one.

97 keef_mac
Posted on Tuesday February 3, 2009, 11:22
Why do they need to make a prequel at all! If they absolutely must make another Thing, they may as well use the story from the Playstation 2 game. It followed on after the end of the Thing, and put you in the shoes of a group of soldiers searching the base. It was as scary as any horror game i've played, and trying to bring your men with you on a mission when they might possibly be infected was intense! One guy got so scared he blew his own head off, really got under my skin that one!
No prequel for the simple fact that any Thing film made now will employ the use of CG, and the Thing worked so well due to the very squishy looking prosthetics. CG just does not work in horror films, look at House on Haunted Hill, that other crap one with Liam Neeson (Haunting?).

98 lairyshirt
Posted on Friday February 20, 2009, 01:20
It just should not happen.. ever.. ever.. erm, ever. As you say, The Thing is one of the best examples of a thrilling horror film. Leave it alone.

99 curphs
Posted on Friday February 20, 2009, 16:32
There is a problem that is very similar to retconning, but usually involves a lot of retconning, and that is when any backstory is filled in.

Is it just me but were the Clone Wars not just so much more awesome when we hadn't seen them? I'm pretty sure it will prove to be better having imagined the post-apocalyptic future in Terminator rather than seen it?

There is something fantastic about being dumped into a world in which the characters are referencing something you have never seen. It is more immersive - you feel like this world has always been trundling along and you just happened to visit for its best story. Whenever people go back and show the backstory it is never as good as you had imagined it.

Leave my imagination alone! No amount of greenscreen can beat that!

100 emmalou13
Posted on Saturday March 7, 2009, 15:19
Oh yeah, Aliens 3/4 are a horrible nightmare that ripley has while still in hyper sleep, meanwhile hicks, newt and bishop are all safe and sound in their respective pods and they only wake up when someone writes a decent script with all of them still in it.

Now theres a retcon I'm willing to sell my granny for!!!

101 The Fonz
Posted on Tuesday March 17, 2009, 01:19
I still haven't recovered from the retcon clusterfuck that was Cruel Intentions 2.

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