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Who Will Watch the Watchmen?
 Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 10:13 by Dan Goodswen in Empire States
 Having watched the trailer for Warner Brothers' $80million adaptation of Watchmen in a full theatre, the excitement was palpable. More than anything though, it left me wondering whether this is going to be a production closed to the general public, for the enjoyment of the well informed and the fanboys only, destined to be nothing more than a cool trailer. Will it register with the masses, as similarly obscure 300 did last year? Can it break out of the fanboy box, the bane of such films as V for Vendetta and A History of Violence? I'll admit, it's a question that has left me uncertain. DC comics, the publisher of Watchmen, sold 100,000 copies of the graphic novel in 2007. In July, The Dark Knight came to theatres around the world accompanied by a 3 minute trailer for the film version of Watchmen. Less than a week later, DC comics ordered an additional print of 300,000 copies of the book. That figure has since risen to 900,000. The trailer, with its breathtaking visuals and dark brooding soundtrack (a pitch perfect remix of The Smashing Pumpkins' The End is the Beginning is the End), left audiences panting, asking, almost in unison, a solitary question; What on earth was that? Herein lies the problem for the Warner's marketing department. As cool as the trailer was, it relied heavily on two posits. One, that this film is from the 'Visionary Director of 300' Zach Snyder, and two, that whatever the Watchmen is, it's an action packed epic on the scale of 300 and The Dark Knight (this association was planted in the mind of the casual viewer with the trailer's attachment to said movie). Addressing the first point, there is no doubt in my mind that Zack Snyder is visionary. He has taken a property which many, including the great Terry Gilliam, considered un-filmable. The visuals are striking and the faith to the source material is quite unbelievable. Several blogs have posted shot-by-shot deconstructions of the trailer against the frames of the graphic novel, and it's shot-for-shot. For a fan of the graphic novel, this is nothing short of inspiring. The care with which Snyder has approached every part of this film has quieted every raised doubt, calmed every worried pondering, and silenced the ever cynical critic within. The trailer is a vindication of Snyder's belief in his ability to bring this film to the screen, in his laborious, almost anal approach to everything from casting to set design, from costumes to scripting and editing. He deserves the prefix 'visionary' and all the accolades that come with it. This, however, brings me to my second point. Watchmen is not an action packed epic on the scale of The Dark Knight and 300. Watchmen is, for the most part, a graphic novel in which the characters do little but stand in rooms talking to each other. This is no attack on Alan Moore, who wrote Watchmen, on the contrary, but the point is that the trailer would have you believe that the characters are too busy kicking ass and taking names to converse. It's cool, sure, but it does little to represent the content of the graphic novel, or the context of the visuals in the trailer. The graphic novel was unique at the time it was first published, for the fact that it didn't rely on thought bubbles to describe to the reader what the characters were thinking and feeling. Dave Gibbons instead uses facial expressions to convey mood, and his artwork is second to none. Couple this with Alan Moore's incredibly sharp and literate dialogue, and you have a graphic novel which broke with conventional graphic story telling conventions to pioneer a more adult, more mature, more respectable style. It contains frame after frame of silence, and in its many exchanges, frame after frame of some of the best written dialogue you're likely to read. The depth of inter-textual imagery inserted by Moore is such, that after several readings I am still finding new ways to marvel at the genius of this work. The finished article is rightly one of the greatest novels of all time, graphic or otherwise. It would seem then, that Warner's have pulled the old Bait and Switch, an infamous marketing technique used when studios have no idea how to pull in viewers. It works just how it sounds - audiences are baited in by a trailer which paints the film as one thing, and are left floundering when the true nature of the film is revealed in theatres, as if the movie they came to see has been switched out. Jarhead, Pan's Labyrinth and Bridge to Terabithia are all examples of films with misleading trailers. In each case, there was marked controversy on behalf of viewers who felt they did not see the film they had paid to see. After the action packed debut of Watchmen, it would seem that Warner's might be attempting some of the same. The film, being distributed in the UK by Paramount, is released next March. It remains to be seen if the general public will be enticed by the outstanding trailer, and disappointed by the lack of action as promised. Or if, hopefully, audiences will embrace the film for what it is; a compelling character study about the humans behind the mask. After all, Watchmen isn't a story about heroes. It's a story about real people who happen to dress up and fight crime. It's a story about getting older, about staying relevant in a world that has moved on, about feeling needed when no-one is asking for help. The task of marketing 300 was similar in scope. A genre graphic novel with a relatively small built in audience, a story unfamiliar to the masses, and a cast void of major A-list talent. But 300 was never anything more than it purported to be, and its subsequent box-office success shows the strength of the campaign - audiences were getting what they paid for and relishing it. 300 had little of the expectation placed on the shoulders of Watchmen, and in studio terms, it also had little of the budget. As its March 2009 release date approaches, Warner's will be amping up every level of publicity for Watchmen, and will have to decide how to tackle public perception and expectation. Should they decide to pull a Bait and Switch, they may find themselves on the end of some heavy criticism and suffer at the box office. Should they be upfront, and focus on the human angle of the story, they will certainly not be criticised, but the risk may be too great. They want another 300, another Dark Knight. What they have is a film with the potential to equal both, if they get it right, if they find the audience. For the moment, nervous studio bosses and marketing heads will have to keep biting their fingernails. Will Watchmen be the success it deserves to be? Or will it prove a very expensive way to sell more graphic novels? As for me, I could have told you my answer two years ago when the project was announced. I'll be there, my heart beating out of my mouth, with the right expectations of what I'm about to see, anticipating my favourite graphic novel brought to life. The fanboys, sure, they'll be sitting right there with me. And the rest of the world? I don't know. Who will watch the Watchmen?
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dunkah Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 10:41
Spot on. When I first saw the trailer I was a bit unnerved about how action orientated it was, i couldn't tell whether it was in fact to entice those unfamiliar with the source material or maybe it was a suggestion that they sexed it up and were going to stick a shitload of action set pieces in.
Here's to hoping it's the former and here's to hoping that Watchmen finds an audience. |
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the ageless stranger Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 10:45
It's a tough call. I know I shall be there opening day (possibly in my home-made Rorschach costume) but as for people who know little about it..... I first saw the trailer in a cinema with my friend who firmly believes any form of comic books are for kids. I of course loved it, and even he admitted that it looked pretty cool. Has he been conned? That's the question.
A story on aintitcool.com from someone who has seen half an hour or so of finished footage said that it is fantastic, but that in places (such as the opening scene with the Comedian) they have added in a bit more action, so it looks like they're trying to make sure non-readers aren't short-changed. |
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Mad Dog Tannen Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 11:34
What you need to remember is that pretty much the entire population of the planet has not read Watchmen.
I haven't read it, but thanks to my brother I kind of know what it's all about.
Speaking as a movie lover who has no opinion or knowledge of the Watchmen graphic novel, I found the trailer to be not much of anything. In fact, when I saw it I shrugged and said "looks like the same old shit".
I also laughed at the bit that said "From The Visionary Director of 300".
I'm very interested in seeing it, but so far I've seen nothing that's made me shit my pants. If the film has been made for the fans, I suspect it won't find a larger audience.
We'll see, eh? |
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rayhiggins Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 11:50
I'm in two minds about this:
1. It's got great material to work with, and a director who can do stylised action quite well.
2. It has the potential to be a complete cock-up, and a director in love with the slo-mo effect.
Only one or two of my friends have also heard about the film. I'll wait for the reviews. If it gets even middling reviews, I'll be happy and go along. As for how to market it, I'd say in the run-up to launch, they'll heavily rely on the character of Rorshach (hope that's spelt right). |
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Freeze Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 11:50
I think it will mostly be the fans going to see it and the fans of Sin City, 300 etc. I had never heard of Watchmen (for it being the best graphic novel) before I started to read about the film. But i'm definetly going to see it in the when it comes out. But I had also never heard of 300 before the movie came out and when I saw the novel in the shops I bought it straight away. |
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beebs_ Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 12:02
After seeing the footage at Movie-Con I was impressed with how much the film looked like the graphic novel. As someone who had read it recently the footage and the trailer had done it's job and got me hyped for the film...
A friend of mine, who hasn't read the novel, says he thinks it'll be a flop. Why? There isn't a wider audience for it.
The man has a point. The Watchman isn't Spider-Man or Batman. The audience isn't just out there waiting for this film to drop.
re: The bait and switch... risky. I think the film looks good, but the themes and the conclusion may just put people off. It's not really your popcorn, blockbuster type of plot.
I don't think the film will be a complete failure, but I don't think it'll be breaking many box office records.
We'll see. |
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dannygray78 Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 12:21
Great article - although I do disagree with most of it!
How is this different from any other literary adaptation? When audiences saw trailers for Silence Of The Lambs or No Country For Old Men, I doubt they sat there bemused, not understanding what was going on, because they hadn't read the source material!
And as for "characters do little but stand in rooms talking to each other". Which version of Watchmen have you been reading? If done correctly, the balance of action and talky bits will be comparable to The Dark Knight. |
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Filmfan 2 Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 12:25
I just read the graphic novel recently and it's certainly worthy of the praise that is piled upon it. Definitely a very adult tale, and one with some very weighty issues indeed (not least, the nature of existence itself amongst them).
The point raised about how the lack of action will translate is a valid one. Films tackling big themes, particularly on this scale, are to be applauded. However, the graphic novel isn't exactly wall-to-wall action throughout and if they followed it to the letter in terms of translation, it would definitely leave some feeling short changed, if all they acme along for the action.
I think Dave Gibbons himself said that there are elements of the graphic novel that they've dropped, and some things that they've added, and I can imagine that an action element is one of the comics aspects that they've expanded on.
I don't think they've done it at an expense to the content of the graphic novel, however, and I'm pretty confident the film will be a good one. |
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bronco3114 Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 12:48
I am inclined to agree with dannygray78 in that the majority of films being made these days are based on previous source material and that doesn't impede their appeal to a broader audience. There are other factors such reviews, word of mouth and of course a good director and/or cast that are just as important. Sure it doesn't garauntee bums on seats as much as the inbuild audiences that accompanies most comic book to film projects but I am still confident it will be a big success if not on the scale of a dark knight. I also don't think the supposed lack of action will necessesarily hinder the watchmen. I can imagine the 3 or 4 pieces of significant action may be embelished but there is plenty of great SFX heavy set peices that will appeal and look great on screen even if not enough to satisfy the blood lust that some no fans might be after.
I think much like the dark knight a well told story will actually entice people who would otherwise give it a miss. We'll all wait and see...
PS Saw the trailer in the IMAX... oh my god!!! |
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Kez Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 12:49
I, too have just finished reading the Graphic Novel, which I bought after seeing the trailer for Watchmen.
I don't know anyone else in my circle of friends or acquaintances who has read the novel, or know anything at all about it, so convincing them to see the film will be a tough sell. I have persuaded a few of them to watch the trailer, and they are intrigued (possibly because they perceive it to be a full-on action flick) but they are not counting down the hours, minutes and seconds until it's release...
I dont think that the action loaded trailer is necessarily a bad thing; if people go to see it based on the initial perception that it's an actioner, then it gets lots of arses on seats. The risk then is that the audience may come away feeling conned or cheated as mentioned above.
I personally think that for a first trailer, it has sparked an interest in an unkown source of material (as I said, I went out and bought the comic based on the trailer). If it is followed up with a less action-oriented trailer attached to a big film (which will be seen by lots of cinema goers) the producers may just stand a chance of widening the audience, to include people who may be interested in the deeper themes of the film.
At the end of the day, I don't really mind if the film does well or bombs, it's my enjoyment that matters to me, and from what I've seen and read, I am very much looking forward to this film. March 2009 cannot come quickly enough! |
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sowasred2012 Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 12:49
Someone give 42 Entertainment a ring - seems we might need a decent marketing campaign. |
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Drew_231 Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 13:21
Good article With regards to the action scenes, there are a number of set pieces which could be opened up quite nicely and given more prominance (such as the prison scene, Rorschachs arrest)
Its going to be interesting to see the type of audience it attracts though |
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ridicularman Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 13:27
First post (hi!).
I think the trailer will work on the same scale that that first trailer for the original Matrix did.
NO ONE knew what the hell that was all about when it first appeared (even down to the 'what is the matrix?' tag) and yet...well, that first film was quite successful and popular. Audiences knew they were going to see something good and word of mouth quickly spread when they really did!
Similarly again, I know we remember the Matrix for its action but there's not actually that much in the first film. What I hope with this Watchmen adaptation is that the action there is will be nicely paced throughout the film so action purists wont be disappointed but that this will be far more than just some big action film.
I also think that - wish so many months to go - it's not like there aren't going to be more trailers going explaining things like the outlawing of superheroes, the innate tragedy of pretty much all of the characters and, y'know, the basic plot.
But at least this trailer got the audience's attention. Job done. (now please don't let the film be crap!) |
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Old_Pyrate Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 13:28
Saw trailer, intrigued, bought and read graphic novel, will go and watch film.
Seems to be the way a lot of people are waking up to how good this could be.
I think the closest comparable film is Sin City (people talking, little action) and that did rather well. |
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raclements Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 14:06
"The depth of inter-textual imagery inserted by Moore is such, that after several readings I am still finding new ways to marvel at the genius of this work. The finished article is rightly one of the greatest novels of all time, graphic or otherwise."
Yup! I've read it, what... 20 times maybe? And every single time I've seen something that I didn't spot before, be it a recurring theme or some action in the background (like Moore actually giving away the identity of Rorshach as early as chapter 2 or 3!).
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Lupin 3 Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 14:09
I'm still not sure, loved the trailer, but I would rather that there was not a Watchmen film at all if it turns out bad. It's the same as lord of the rings, there is nothing I could want more than a great Watchmen film, but I just can't see how it could happen. Which doesn't mean it couldn't happen. My biggest worry is that everyone will love it, but won't be able to understand why I didn't ( I had a similar experience with Spiderman 2) If they are managing to sell more copies of the source material however, that must mean that more people are reading it. Which can't be a bad thing. |
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britesparc Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 14:12
When I first saw the trailer (on the net) I was really impressed, but felt it would be incredibly confusing for people who haven't read the book. However, when it was stuck before the Dark Knight at Imax, loads of my friends saw it, and all of them were really excited - "What's Watchmen?" many of them eagerly asked me (as the office's resident nerd). So I do think, potentially, it's got an audience there, due to the trailer response.
I also think the film would have sufficient action: sure, there's plenty of standing-round-and-talking, but also quite a few action scenes, at least as many as Dark Knight had (Vietnam, the prison escape, the finale, the riots, etc). Plus, like Dark Knight, it's a character-driven thriller with some deep thoughts in its head.
So, in conclusion, I don't think audiences will be disappointed (assuming it lives up to the hype - I mean "bait-and-switch"-wise). It won't make Dark Knight figures, but I'd say it stands a good chance of $100m domestic at least. |
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Mr Grizzly Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 14:48
From the sounds of it, Snyder has made the characters younger as a majority of people will not want to see a film about past -it superheroes. This will also allow the extended action sequences to be more enjoyable and believeable. I too have read the novel for the first time, since seeing the trailer, loved it but think those changes will be necessary for a larger audience.
It will be a tough sell to non-fans but if it's a 15 (though more likely the dreaded 12A) the audience will be mature enough to enjoy it and accept it. |
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Acho Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 15:08
Great blog, some very good points made. Watchmen can be a tough sell; not necessarily because the subject matter is difficult, but it can be hard to sum up in just one or two sentences, which is usually what a marketing campaign wants. I was trying to tell a friend about it at the weekend (he’d seen the trailer and asked me about it – like Britesparc, I’m often the official nerd in a group!) and he looked almost crestfallen as I explained it to him. He just hadn’t been expecting something so complex, not off the back of the trailer, nor from his general sense of what a ‘comic book’ film would entail.
Which pretty much sums up the marketing challenge I think. It’ll be tough getting the balance right between setting legitimate audience expectations, presenting an attractive package to those outside the built-in fanbase and keeping fans of the book happy and still bringing something fresh and surprising to the screen.
Coupling the trailer with The Dark Knight was probably their best bet. It gave a huge audience who should be primed to enjoy something like Watchmen (as the book sales figures given in the blog suggest, plenty of fan boys and girls willing to take a chance on the book based on a trailer alone), but it is also aligned itself with another ‘comic book’ film that didn’t neatly fit the mould. Now all we need is for fans of The Dark Knight to remember that come March 2009 – a few key set pieces and a complex, layered story, with its fair share of ‘talky’ bits, can make for a great film!
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meno36 Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 17:43
Who cares whether its a box office success or not, other than the bean counters at the studio? All I selfishly care about is whether the film is going to do justice to the graphic novel? I
f the fim is even 10% as enthralling as its source is then I will be leaving the cinema a very happy punter, who will probably drag everyone I know to go and see it again with me!!! |
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ROTGUT Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 18:34
I hope ( I pray) that this film finds a wide audience. Superhero films are still in vogue at the moment - so that has to be a plus. Hell - even Daredevil and the Fantastic Four pulled in big bucks - and Batman and Robin was a complete travesty - the point is - people still went to see them. Watchmen deserves to find it's audience, much like the Dark Knight did. Don't know if it will pull in those kind of numbers though. Let's see.....an 80 million dollar opening would be nice.... Beverly Hills dog shit not withstanding - let's give the American audiences the benefit of the doubt shall we? |
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Keldy Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 18:47
Never read the graphic novel, haven't seen the trailer. Can't wait for the film. Not really sure how that works but the premise just sounds like somethin that will really interest me. |
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Stu Version 1.0 Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 20:42
I think just as much as anything it's not a question of "will anyone but the fanboy like it?" it's a question of "Will the fanboys like it?" because if even the slightest thing is wrong, (for example, the slow-motion. Watchmen is a gritty story about heroes that are real people. Slow motion is fancy, shiny even, which does not fit the story at all. I will go crazy if it turns out like 300) it will be abandoned by the people who love the book. I love Alan Moore, I love everything he's written, and every film based off his work that I've seen has been awful. Yes, even V for Vendetta. |
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giddig Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 21:15
I think striking visuals and increasing the amount of action is the only way to make this adaptation a success. The moments of direct comic frame to screen shot will help keep the fanboys subdued and the extra action will help keep the more casual fans entertained. The trailer and film will open up the graphic novel to those who would not have considered it before, that's a win in itself. You will never keep the super fanboys happy, ever. The film studios aren't totally stupid all the time. They know to draw in the established fanbase and casual film fan alike is a win-win for them. |
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giddig Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 21:19
I think striking visuals and increasing the amount of action is the only way to make this adaptation a success. The moments of direct comic frame to screen shot will help keep the fanboys subdued and the extra action will help keep the more casual fans entertained. The trailer and film will open up the graphic novel to those who would not have considered it before, that's a win in itself. You will never keep the super fanboys happy, ever. The film studios aren't totally stupid all the time. They know to draw in the established fanbase and casual film fan alike is a win-win for them. |
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Jayarcea Posted on Thursday October 9, 2008, 23:29
I am one of those people who went out and bought the comic on the back of the trailer in order to understand what all the fuss was about. I came away totaly sold. The burtifuly clear and crisp art work, the excellent writing and the innovation by inserting excerts from the "autobiography" Under the Hood and the ingenious juxtaposition with Tales of the Black Frieghter. As a result, I am pretty optimistic about the prospects of this film. I would question the "visionary director" bit with Zach Snyder. Yes 300 was a decent, buetifully shot but subsequently vapid and hollow film. It takes a catalougue that compare with the likes of Martin Scorsese before you can earn that title. But in his favour, he does have an extraodinary piece of literature in which to base the film. But many a director has had that opportunity and royaly fucked it up. So with baited breath many of us will wait to see if Mr Snyder will live up to his rather overblown title and do this fine book justice. |
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bobthegrinch Posted on Friday October 10, 2008, 01:11
I can only remember 3 actual action sequences from Iron Man which was embraced by audiences. A some of the talky scenes will still have a reasonable amount of spectacle particularly the Silk Spectre/Dr Manhattan Mars chat. It also looks like in scenes such as the prison break they have amped up the action for the big screen. With little bits and bobs involving Rorschach and The Comedian having bursts of violence there might be enough to keep an audience interested. I also think a lot of succesful blockbusters succeed from more than just action and violence. This summer both Iron Man and The Dark Knight were enhanced as much by the performance of the leads (Downey Jr and Heath Ledger) in non action scenes as much by spectacle. The original Pirates of the Caribbean was a hit thanks to the eccentric performance of Depp. Even the original Star Wars and Lord of the Rings trilogies aren't over loaded with exciting action scenes (yes LOTR has a lot of epic battles but considering the running time a lot of the film relies on character). I don't see why Watchmen should be any different from those assuming they've got a balance and the performances are good and the characters even half as intriguing as they are in the comics. Perhaps the teenage audience may find this a challenge but I would think 20 somethings and upwards will find more to enjoy than they expect. |
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bobthegrinch Posted on Friday October 10, 2008, 01:15
Apologies for my spelling and grammar errors in the post above. I should've read over before I hit post. |
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pottynoodles Posted on Friday October 10, 2008, 09:56
Meo36 I couldn't agree with you more. this all boils down to studio greed in the end of the day. Actually, similar to Helen's blog earlier this week on the lack of studio marketing emphasis on "female" films. Warner wants to have a hit on their hands to equal Dark Knight instead of approaching it with a bit more intelligence - a film made with care and respect to its original source, be it graphic novel, book, play etc, and correctly marketed, will always find an audience. trying to square the circle and dragging every tom, dick and eejit in purely to get a fantastic opening weekend could end up costing the studio if people are deliberately misled as to the tone of the film. Am sure Snyder and his crew are working hard to create a great adaptation and will be cruelly disappointed if all their hard work ends up being labelled a "failure" purely because Warner haven't the sense to correctly market the film |
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Scoop1980 Posted on Friday October 10, 2008, 10:01
Just got my own copy of Watchmen (graphic novel; not a pirate of the film hah!) off the back of the trailer as well as the fact a work colleague waxes lyrical about the novel so I'm hoping the novel meets my expectations.
One thing I'd like to point out is this increasing trend to argue that Zack Snyder isn't worthy of the tag "visionary". The definition of the word is someone who envisions things in perfect but unrealistic form; which is exactly what 300 was. Snyder never tried to sell the film as anything but a beautiful-looking, bloody action flick and that's exactly what it was. Anyone wanting (or expecting) something deeper obviously has no clue about the source material.
Thus, with him being faithful to 300, I am confident Snyder will too be faithful to Watchmen. Visually, it looks stunning (he seems to know how to make a film look fantastic) and from the early reviews of snippets, he has managed to keep it as close to the novel as he could, while adding elements to help draw a larger audience. |
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ChesterCopperpot Posted on Friday October 10, 2008, 11:57
I have to say that I too have ordered my copy of the graphic novel based on the trailer, and am very curious to find out what all the fuss is about. I can only agree entirely with almost everything pointed out in the blog. I'm aware of the story and background of Watchmen based on a friend's ranting and raving about it, and I'm also surprised about the nature of the trailer - what with it being quite action oriented. A lot of people in the cinema didn't whisper the usual, "That looks amazing!" to their friends/family. All I ever heard was, "What the hell was that!?" It piqued their curiosity...
And that's why I think that a lot of people have failed to notice just how clever WB's marketing has been. The Dark Knight as 99.9% of us know, is a dark, brooding and brilliant film, filled with great characters and it also had the benefit of massive hype based on early reviews. By tagging the Watchmen trailer with "The Greatest Graphic Novel Of All Time" and then having TDK show afterwards (incidentally isn't TDK now considered the best comic book movie ever?), I think people will go into Watchmen expecting a CHARACTER driven film as opposed to an action film, much like TDK.
I have very high hopes for Watchmen, purely because based on word-of-mouth, I'll be treated like an intelligent human being rather than a complete numbnut who only likes consuming Big Mac Movies that Hollywood has a worrying love of producing at the minute (the Spiderman franchise anyone?)
@bobthegrinch, whilst I agree that LOTR films are partly character driven (and utterly fucking mindblowing films), those books were quite significantly altered so as to fit the Hollywood mould. I refer of course to Arwen and Galadriel being made into more important characters. Then there's Helm's Deep - about a page-and-a-half in The Two Towers......45 minutes in the film.
Fingers and toes are well and truly crossed. |
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Kez Posted on Friday October 10, 2008, 12:19
Are peolpe worried that Snyder is going to use his slow-mo machine in Watchmen? I've talked to people who have now seen the trailer, and made the connection between this film and 300, and immediately start saying that it will be awful (not their choice of words!) because of Snyder's use of slow-mo in 300.
I personally thought that the slow-mo worked very well in 300, and dont feel that it was over-used at all - I thought that it fit in very well. So why do people assume that because he used one tool of filmmaking in one film, that it will become a standard in all of his films? He didnt have any slow-mo sequences in Dawn Of The Dead (as far as I can remember).
Is this something that anyone here is worried will happen?
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guypoole Posted on Friday October 10, 2008, 13:09
Yes the trailer can been seen as being misleading... but that could also work for the film. Many people read Watchmen expecting it to be a classic action-adventure Superhero story. The misdirection of the marketing may been that the subject matter has a greater impact on the viewer due to it's element of surprise. |
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moviemaniac-7 Posted on Friday October 10, 2008, 15:42
I thought the trailer was in the style of 300 - which Watchmen isn't. First reports a bit ago (of the footage that screened on the Warner lot) was hopeful and they say that Snyder has given it a cinematic style - rather than filming the comic book word by word.
The one thing that worries me is the fact that he does seem to have adapted the episodic structure. I never could understand that people considered it unfilmable, since if you change the structure a bit - make it more of a flowing story and omit certain things (the psychiatrist's story line and the Black Freighter) - one has quite a decent picture. But that might be me. I have good faith that Snyder did a good job and I am particularly looking forward to Doc Manhattan's bit on Mars - that part of the story is maybe one of the greatest ever commited to comic book paper. It's just brilliant.
And maybe, maybe, Alan Moore will come around and see it. And actually enjoy the hell out of it. |
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Decent_Jam Posted on Friday October 10, 2008, 17:26
Having just watched the trailer I can only echo the 'actiony' focus of it, but while there's no doubt the fans of the graphic novel will see it in their droves, possibly even a few times over, it doesn't change the fact that the general public are on the brink of being misled by trailers yet again.
Any fan of films like Sin City and 300, such as myself, will probably see this film through curiosity, but as for the general movie-going public, I'm not so sure.
It's true big action does pull audiences, but I think a lot of people will be intrigued enough by this film to go and see it without knowing so much about it.
Depending on its marketing, the films mystery could prove its most endearing quality, but there's no question of it reaching the box office sales of the likes of The Dark Knight, it's clearly not in that sort of league (not in terms of quality, but image), even if movie bosses would like it to be. |
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SkullKassidy Posted on Friday October 10, 2008, 18:19
Though I totally with what your saying about the trailer misleading the public, I have to question the fact that you think only the "comic-book fanboys" have high-expectations for this film. I think your doing a great dis-service to how big a space the Watchmen occupies in the modern culture. Afterall Watchmen has cropped up in many lists of the greatest novels ever, not just graphic novels, but novels full stop. This is graphic novel that you HAVE to read even if you have no interest in comics. This film has high-expectations WAY above the usual comic-book/superhero fare!
The film's expectations are SO high that the critique has started and all we have so far is an action heavy trailer. So I wouldn't go under-estimating the drawing power of the Watchmen on it's own just yet.
The big question for me is this: With Watchmen already held in such high-regard could this film actually be considered a succussful adaptation if it's anything less than a 5-star film that ranks as one of the most important films ever made? |
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WULLIE Posted on Saturday October 11, 2008, 14:56
I love the book and really want the movie to be good but ,Im a little nervous about it snyders earlier works have delivered more on spectacle than characterisation.The book is very deep and complicated requires more than one reading and I know hes shot it frame by frame taking the images from the book but some things dont translate well to film as weve seen with lord of the rings jackson knew what to leave out and even had characters saying there dialog in different parts of the story from what was in the book.I really want this movie to be good theres no doubting snyders passion for the subject matter but,we will all just have to wait and see. |
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mighty mick Posted on Saturday October 11, 2008, 21:07
I enjoyed the novel and respect it both as a work of art and as a source of inspiration to other comic book titles... but unfortunately I do not think Watchmen will be commercially successful. It is miles apart from the average superhero film, even The Dark Knight, and that might not go down well with audiences (especially the ones who get excited by mediocre war porn like 300). Still, we'll see in March... |
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panicatthepaddy Posted on Saturday October 11, 2008, 23:43
The action has been beefed up, and added in some places where it wasn't in the graphic novel. For example i read on an extras journal on a site that in the scene where rorschach jumps from the window and falls down and the cops grab him, he jumps from the window, falls to the ground then takes on about 8 cops quickly and then is taken down.
The great dialogue and intense and deep characters and dialogue will be in there, just with added action. What's wrong with that?
Nothing. |
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captainrentboy Posted on Sunday October 12, 2008, 11:36
Haven't read the graphic novel, (But have asked my lover to buy it for me as a chrimbo present) but still the trailer did what it was supposed to do, it made me think ''What the bloody hell was that?''.. In a good way. Since watching it months ago I've been following its production with great interest, and it's now one of my hopes for 2009 at the cinema. I'm sure I remember reading that they've bulked out the action scenes, not necessarily adding ones that weren't there, just extending on existing fight scenes from the novel. And recently on AICN (Don't hate me) two of its 'writers' got to see 30 minutes from the film, and from the description it sounds fantastic. And was I one of the few that thought The Dark Knight was in no way an action bonanza? The Batpod sequence was cool, but apart from that the film was severely lacking. Still bloody enjoyed it though, and it still had great word of mouth, even though it was very 'talky'. |
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Retversus Posted on Monday October 13, 2008, 02:22
Good article and I think it's right on the mark; I have a friend who saw the trailer and said it looked cool but instantly asked what it was all about. The visuals are only half of what makes Watchmen great and the trailer doesn't represent that.
"After all, Watchmen isn't a story about heroes. It's a story about real people who happen to dress up and fight crime. It's a story about getting older, about staying relevant in a world that has moved on, about feeling needed when no-one is asking for help."
This part of the article is the only thing I take issue with. Watchmen is about heroes, or rather the impossibility of heroes. It takes a variety of moral standpoints and carves characters; the absolute Kantian view of Rorschach, the resigned irony of the Comedian, the everyman "Can't we all just get along" of Nite Owl etc. Then it proceeds to demonstrate the strengths and weakness of all of these views and the only way in which to 'save the world' i.e Monsters fighting monsters. It is about society and morality, not just the tributary element of Moore writing his way out of super heroes dominating comic books.
And that to me is the difficult bit to film. I don't think Gilliam said it was impossible to film because of the visuals at all, it was impossible because it is written perfectly for a 12 part series where poignant, single frames can drive the narrative just as hard as words. This is why Gilliam said it would probably work a lot better as a series rather than a film. That Snyder can do the visuals means very little; 300 looked incredible but the plot was absolutely awful.
They should make a second trailer free from graphical slickness to contrast with the first, selecting various lines from areas like the Psychiatrist interview, Voight's reasoning and Jon's argument on Mars. I don't hold out much hope though for this but hey, Batman begins and TDK were both intellectually accomplished but brought people in on visuals and that worked superbly. |
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| 42 |
tom_poynton Posted on Monday October 13, 2008, 08:31
So what you're saying is that its the trailer equivalent of the "Reign Of Fire" poster?
Damn. |
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| 43 |
cydonia Posted on Monday October 13, 2008, 16:32
this film will be watched by the fanboys and will be watched by the masses
will it live up to the hype?
i certainly hope so
but the trailer is misleading..... |
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| 44 |
iain99 Posted on Monday October 13, 2008, 23:26
Everyone seems curious to know what the non-'fanboys' will make of this. I'm a huge movie fan & long term Empire reader (18 years!). Never been overly enamoured with Superhero movies. Like any genre there's a few great examples, the first Superman, first couple of Spidermans, any Batman movie not directed by Joel Schumacher, but on the whole I've never been into the genre. (If anyone at Empire reads this, there's a portion of your readership who don't want Hulk/Ironman on the cover every other bleeding month!) I'd also never read a comic/graphic novel (unless you count the Beano when I was about 8!). Was recently lent a copy of Watchmen & decided to give it a go to see what the fuss was about. Thought it was reasonably entertaining, very self important in parts, and had a total WTF ending that didn't do anything for me. I'll take people's word for it that it was groundbreaking in the 80's, but I think Heroes (1st season at least) did a much better job of de-constructing the superhero genre for the 21st century. Will fanboys love the movie. Almost certainly. Does it have mass market appeal? I'm guessing probably not. It's a hard sell. It's not a marquee name like Batman/Spiderman. A lot of the book not a lot happens, there's few (if any) loveable characters, it ain't gonna be a PG or even a 12 (not if it's as faithful as it's supposed to be) meaning it'll lose a lot of the core audience of superhero movies, and the ending is gonna leave a lot of people scratching their heads. I'm not a comic book fan & it didn't blow me away. I may be wrong, but can't see it being huge. I know I'm gonna get flamed for criticizing Watchmen, but wanted to give you an honest opinion of how it may be seen by people who aren't fans |
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citizen_smith Posted on Tuesday October 14, 2008, 01:30
The trailer only really told me what I already knew from watching 300: Zack Snyder loves slo-mo. Having seen his Dawn of the Dead remake too, i'm sure that Watchmen will LOOK lovely. Visually speaking, I think he's very talented. But the narrative aspect of his direction leaves a lot to be desired. Which might be a problem considering how dense and circuitous the source is.
As for the shot-for-shot thing, its all very well and good, but lifting composition straight from the graphic novel hardly fits with the 'Visionary director' tag, even if it is some of the best composition ever produced in the medium. I'm keen to see Watchmen though, simply because i'm curious as to how it compares to the comic. If it's good, thats an added bonus. Like yourself though, I think it might struggle to attract the sort of audience figures Warner Brothers are hoping for... |
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citizen_smith Posted on Tuesday October 14, 2008, 01:41
Also, Retversus (at 41) is pretty much on the money about why Watchmen was considered unfilmable for so long. Well said. |
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branniganslaw Posted on Tuesday October 14, 2008, 09:44
What does it matter who will watch it? There is no sequel to be made. Why are looking at it from the point of view of the studio. The fact is that people who have read the book will want to see it. And if it's a good film and a faithful adaptation then people will enjoy it. Who gives a shit if it breaks records. surely it's the quality that counts. |
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| 48 |
Duckers Posted on Tuesday October 14, 2008, 17:17
I think it's got the capacity to be really bad - like "League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen" bad. |
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| 49 |
thatstherub Posted on Tuesday October 14, 2008, 18:24
well, did anyone really think the dark knight would make that much? if Snyder makes a great film, it will find a strong audience. |
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A.Sole Posted on Tuesday October 14, 2008, 23:40
Alright then, firstly as for the advertising campaign I don't think people are going to be annoyed that it's not what they were expecting. People, I think, will go to see it and either enjoy it or not. You may hear it's not what I was expecting but it was a cracking film. Alot people will read reviews like that of empire and go or not. Other people will go cos they love the comic. The people in Marketing will always show the most exciting bits of a film even if it's a romance between three people in eighteenth century. If there's a gunshot it will be shown. As for Zach Syder in the words of sean connery, in League of extroadinarily wasted films, I'm waiting to be impressed. He's done George a star Romero an injustice by visionarily remaking (remaking what an explosive concept) a masterpiece. Zombies don't run!!! I mean he took out everything interesting; the satire, the wit, the social commentary. 300 had all the depth of a slice of toast. I watched it once and thought it was visually stunning and watched it again and wondered if maybe I should start taking more drugs (pharmaceutical of course). Now then we have Mr Nolan; Does anyone get how good his films are memento is a freaking mastepiece. Insomnia is stunning. These are real films done with subtlety and style, they're intreaging, mysterious and intelligent. So he, comes across a comic book character and says wait a minute he's not a comic book character, this dudes real. Nolan show's us what cinema can be in the 21st C, what cinema should be. Snyder shows us what cinema has become to many get hold of anything worth a dollar to the hearts and mind of the masses and shove it out in an quick attempt at drawing in the crowds. A remake, a comic book adaption is he just wandering down the lines of cynical hollywood. I love watchmen the graphic novel but if you think its going to be masterpiece like dark knight, be prepared for a shock. Snyders done nothing that comes even close so why would Watchmen be different. |
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mike_390 Posted on Wednesday October 15, 2008, 01:19
Ok i agree with most points but - "The care with which Snyder has approached every part of this film has quieted every raised doubt, calmed every worried pondering, and silenced the ever cynical critic within" Really??? I have to say that it just made me more un-nerved and think that Snyder has repeated his mistake with 300 - all style and little content. I hope it's great, i hope it's legendary but this Watchman fan boy has doubts that this film should have ever been made in the first place... |
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Ambition Posted on Thursday October 16, 2008, 12:29
I'm sorry, but I really don't think you can call Zack Snyder 'visionary' for recreating someone else's work 'shot-for-shot'!!! Surely I don't need to explain why that's a flawed standpoint. |
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paul42 Posted on Thursday October 16, 2008, 13:01
Going to stick my neck out, and will probably get shot down in flames for saying it, but I think this will be bigger than TDK. Feel free to laugh at me in 6 months, but I have a sneaky feeling Snyder is going to absolutely nail it. |
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sizeten10 Posted on Friday October 17, 2008, 09:05
I'm afraid it will be every bit as successful as Ghostrider was. |
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enemysprout Posted on Friday October 17, 2008, 11:09
Was the Dark Knight really action packed?
I think the watchmen has enough set pieces to tick it over, and certanly a number of people are taking an interest who haven't (or hadn't) read the graphic novel. I loved the ending myself, as I think it has the kind of ending that leads to discussion. It may mislead, but it's clearly for adults and should have the appeal of a cross between 300, The Usual Suspects, and heroes. All popular with the kind of people this is already appealing to. |
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| 56 |
Organs Posted on Friday October 17, 2008, 20:58
First of all, you're assuming the movie will resemble the comic far enough for it to be as dialogue-driven as said comic. Zack Snyder had to truncate a twelve chapter story full of complex, emotional characters, into a three hour movie at the longest. It's very likely a lot of conversations and background will have to be nixed for more fight scenes, detailed sets and costumes notwithstanding. |
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travisjustinwhite Posted on Friday October 17, 2008, 22:59
"The trailer is a vindication of Snyder's belief in his ability to bring this film to the screen, in his laborious, almost anal approach to everything from casting to set design, from costumes to scripting and editing. He deserves the prefix 'visionary' and all the accolades that come with it."
So, copying somebody else's work down to the tiniest detail is what makes him a visionary..? |
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| 58 |
travisjustinwhite Posted on Friday October 17, 2008, 23:04
Sorry, I didn't read comment number 52... |
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| 59 |
Kisa_141 Posted on Sunday October 19, 2008, 04:16
Though I have never read the Watchmen graphic novel(s), I am pretty sure I will be watching this film in theaters...one of the few I would be interested in seeing in theaters these days I saw the trailer at the premier for Dark Knight, and yeah, I think my excitement over the Dark Knight and subsequently realizing the shear greatness of that movie, I developed a preconception that Watchmen would be just as, if not, more cool than Dark Knight. Certainly the Smashing Pumpkins song allowed for even more intrigue. I even downloaded that song after extensive searching on Google for the title/artist. I watched the Dark Knight a few more times in theaters and have since watched the trailer for Watchmen quite a lot. I can't say whether it will live up to its hype..but I'm going to go into it with that song in my head and with a sense of curiosity about the world Zack Snyder and others have brought to life. |
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BethN21286 Posted on Thursday November 13, 2008, 12:47
I wonder if the new trailer out today will make a difference. I am SOOOO dying to see more.
I doubt it's possible to get more excited and I haven't even finished the whole comic, (refuse to say graphic novel!). |
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Alitasix Posted on Monday November 17, 2008, 01:29
I loved the book. It was one of the best stories ever to see print, but to make it into a film is a mistake as the story has too many plots to cover that link the whole theme of the book, theres' a rape of a fellow watchmen that will not be in it I know. It a too intelligent story for the average movie go'er and they will ruin the story by dumbing it down. Its not just about super heros but responsibilty that goes with it and the consequences that fellow. Plus a lot of the book is told through news paper stories that link to the plot of the story. So this film will be bad as it will not do the book the justice it requires. Alan Moore writes about his characters as truly flawed persons but we still care about them. The film will not do this it will not make you understand them or what drives them. I would say read the book and you will understand what I mean. |
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starjump79 Posted on Wednesday January 14, 2009, 16:11
I'll be watching it, cannot wait! |
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